therunner Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 On 04/02/2023 at 4:27 PM, Frustration said: When he says he believes that Hoid is the only one, what he means is that right now Hoid is the only person he has decided has done it, but he is leaving the door open for him to add others. But he specifically says that Hoid is the only Radiant to get out of system, and following that is the first. That does leave the room for the Voidbinders, squires with enhanced Connection etc. Those are not Radiants (so escape the first clause) and could have simply left after Hoid, escaping the second clause. The room is there for non-Allomancer interpretation. Quote We have two options Option 1 requires no assumptions, no one has gotten off world and maintained powers other than Hoid, therefore there cannot be Skybreakers. Option 2 requires two assumptions, one is that these are Skybreakers, and the second is that somehow they managed to leave by suppressing their powers. In these cases I believe it is best to go with the option that requires the least amount of assumptions. Option 1 the way you stated is not Brandon said though, he said Hoid is the only Radiant who left with powers intact, and there are other Surgebinders on Roshar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 The downside of the fandom having so many transcriptions rather than just summaries of Sanderson's words is that we tend to treat him as a fey that can only speak the truth and hides meaning in their words rather than a human who can misspeak. Unfortunately, he encourages it with all his RAFOs and dodging topics like someone trying to ask their first crush out. I suppose we are the reap he has wrought. Purely for the sake of argument, because I don't believe this at all, could it be that they are not Skybreakers but still have access to the surge of gravitation? As the Cosmere develops we see more and more overlap between the invested arts, so perhaps this is case here and the line about legality was meant to clue us in to something strange happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rg2045 Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Dang it @Frustration. You, just made mistborn and radiants on the same level with this. In fact radiants might be versatile in different ways instead. That they have a more connection to the SR and are able to do weird things because of it. Whereas mistborn are stronger combatives in general. If a mistborn and a radiant of the third ideal had the same amount of investiture to draw on, it’s a much more even fight with advantage going to radiants with healing and shardblade, but the mistborn is still a force to recond with especially sense even a kelsier level mistborn would be as strong or near as strong as(or even half as strong) mist fueled vin. it breaks open the door. It’s crazy and needs a thread of its own. 4th ideal is still op because of shardplate but dang is it crazy. and not only that but what if radiants get access to something better then stormlight? Because stormlight sucks as a stored investiger so that means radiants would also gain a boost of lasting longer. Omg this litterally blows up exponentially. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, HSuperLee said: Purely for the sake of argument, because I don't believe this at all, could it be that they are not Skybreakers but still have access to the surge of gravitation? As the Cosmere develops we see more and more overlap between the invested arts, so perhaps this is case here and the line about legality was meant to clue us in to something strange happening. Yes. Nicrosil can be used to store Radiant surges. If it was stored by a Skybreaker (rather than a Windrunner) maybe someone else tapping it would then suddenly care or have to care about legality to forge a Connection. Edited February 7, 2023 by lacrossedeamon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said: Yes. Nicrosil can be used to store Radiant surges. If it was stored by a Skybreaker (rather than a Windrunner) maybe someone else tapping it would then suddenly care or have to care about legality to forge a Connection. Unfortunately I don't believe you understood what I was trying to say. I was wondering about the possibility of these characters having gravitation without any connection to Roshar or its magic systems, but instead accessing it through a completely separate invested art. And I consider storing the power in Nicrosil to be merely a semantic difference in this context. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, HSuperLee said: Unfortunately I don't believe you understood what I was trying to say. I was wondering about the possibility of these characters having gravitation without any connection to Roshar or its magic systems, but instead accessing it through a completely separate invested art. And I consider storing the power in Nicrosil to be merely a semantic difference in this context. Oh. Gotcha. Well humans were experimenting with surges while on Ashyn. We don’t know exactly how they were accessing them. Could be via the bacteria system or something different. Otherwise the only other system we have been exposed to I can think of that would possibly fit is AonDor which implies Dakhor and ChayShan might also be able to. But yes I do think that manipulation of surges could appear in a new magic system as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 51 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said: Yes. Nicrosil can be used to store Radiant surges. If it was stored by a Skybreaker (rather than a Windrunner) maybe someone else tapping it would then suddenly care or have to care about legality to forge a Connection. The caring about legality was a function of the spren, not the magic system. The spren required obedience to certain principles to maintain the Connection. A Nicrosil wouldn't store the requirement to meet the needs of a spren. It would simply store the ability to use the surge. The only reason the Scadrial "skybreakers" would need to care about the law would be if they maintained their Connections to their spren. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 43 minutes ago, Leuthie said: The only reason the Scadrial "skybreakers" would need to care about the law would be if they maintained their Connections to their spren. I wonder if tapping Duralumin would bypass the usual range of a Nahel bond and restore the Connection while allowing the spren to be left on Roshar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 30 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said: I wonder if tapping Duralumin would bypass the usual range of a Nahel bond and restore the Connection while allowing the spren to be left on Roshar. That still doesn't work, as Radiants can't leave Roshar due to their Investiture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Frustration said: That still doesn't work, as Radiants can't leave Roshar due to their Investiture. But squires could leave, as they have not yet bonded spren. Skybreakers specifically bond only on 3rd Oath. So 2nd Oath Skybreaker could leave Roshar in principle. They would lose powers as they would be too far, unless something strengthen the Connection to Knight to whom they are squired. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Frustration said: That still doesn't work, as Radiants can't leave Roshar due to their Investiture. Is that actually confirmed and if so would storing Investiture be enough to get around it or being leeched or gnatting yourself? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 4 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said: Is that actually confirmed and if so would storing Investiture be enough to get around it or being leeched or gnatting yourself? RoW page 188 confirms it. And leeching wouldn't work as it's their innate Investiture. And I doubt that storing Investiture would work as it's the Connection issue that causes it. And if you do that you retain your powers, so they can't be Skybreakers doing that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Frustration said: RoW page 188 confirms it. And leeching wouldn't work as it's their innate Investiture. And I doubt that storing Investiture would work as it's the Connection issue that causes it. And if you do that you retain your powers, so they can't be Skybreakers doing that. Unfortunately don’t have the book infront of me at the moment. Store connection, investiture, and possibly even identity. Bounce from Roshar. Powers might not be maintained until you tap them all again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, lacrossedeamon said: Unfortunately don’t have the book infront of me at the moment. Store connection, investiture, and possibly even identity. Bounce from Roshar. Powers might not be maintained until you tap them all again. Just storing Connection would work, and then you still have powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 33 minutes ago, Frustration said: Just storing Connection would work, and then you still have powers. How do you still have your powers if you stored your connection to your spren to get off planet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, lacrossedeamon said: How do you still have your powers if you stored your connection to your spren to get off planet? Why to your spren? Just store your Conection to Roshar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Frustration said: Why to your spren? Just store your Conection to Roshar You seem to be making arguments for why it would be easy to leave Roshar and maintain powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, lacrossedeamon said: You seem to be making arguments for why it would be easy to leave Roshar and maintain powers. It would be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Frustration said: It would be. Well it seems like according to you the Ghostbloods have all they need to get people with surges off Roshar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, lacrossedeamon said: Well it seems like according to you the Ghostbloods have all they need to get people with surges off Roshar. Mraize said as much in RoW. But we know that they haven't yet, whatever that reason is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, Frustration said: Mraize said as much in RoW. But we know that they haven't yet, whatever that reason is. Unless they have and those guys are actually skybreakers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, lacrossedeamon said: Unless they have and those guys are actually skybreakers Brandon said that Hoid is the only one, so they cannot be Skybreakers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Frustration said: Mraize said as much in RoW. No, he said that they figured out the process, but implementing it is hard. Edited February 7, 2023 by alder24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacrossedeamon Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: Brandon said that Hoid is the only one, so they cannot be Skybreakers. Technically he changes from “only” to “first” at the end of the WOB but now we are going in circles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkenbotanist Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 If you're able to shove your spren into the spiritual realm theoretically you would no longer be location locked. You wouldn't have access to stormlight but if it was around you should be able to use it, or dor, etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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