Preservation should have been the antagonist of Era 1, not Ruin

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

So first of all, I'd like to be clear: I'm talking from a broad, thematic perspective, and this would of course require significant rewrites of the overarching plot of the book and of the characterization of ruin and preservation. I'm not saying that "Ruin did nothing wrong" or something, I'm talking hypotheticals.

Now. The final empire is a story of revolution. It's a world that's had the brutal status quo enforced and upheld for far, far too long. It's a world of stagnation, that hasn't seen much advancement in 1000 years. It's a world where the people in power are extremely successful at keeping themselves that way. Our heroes are people taking a stand, people who are fighting this. People who want to tear down the old world so a new and better one can be built. So why, then, is preservation set up as the "good" shard of the series and ruin the "bad" shard? (yes yes, I know, it's not 100% good and evil but like. Cmon. One of them is trying to destroy the world the other is trying to save it. It's pretty clear. And it's literally black and white). To me, it would make a lot more thematic sense for preservation to be the ultimate antagonistic force of this series, who's trying to uphold the status quo and keep things the way they are no matter the brutality, and ruin to be more on the hero's side, helping them from behind the scenes to tear down the old world. (Even in this version, ruin probably wouldn't be so up on the "and rebuilding better" side of things, and I think that makes for an interesting conflict. How do we destroy what needs to be destroyed while leaving enough to rebuild?)

[HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES]

I think that part of the message is that kelsier was sickeningly destructive. Preservation is good because his inherent intent is the protection of humanity. One thing i really like about the well of acension is that it shows the fallout of overthrowing a long established government. You are left seriously asking if that much death is worth it. Thus it makes sense that a good being who wanted to save humans would allow something like the final empire

[The Bookwyrm]

I actually like this idea a lot. Like you said, it would need a lot of changing to make it work, and the series still turned out incredible the way it was written. But the theme makes a lot of sense. 

In Secret History, we actually see that Preservation has a fascination with TLR, and that he was kind of sad and annoyed when TLR died. So small parts of this still existed, even if the whole thing went in another direction.

And your comment in parentheses at the end would make a really good plot point.

[cometaryorbit]

Well, I think there are two things there:

- Once released, Ruin is an immediate threat of total destruction.

- The "overthrowing a government" part is done with by the end of book 1, and in book 2 and 3 the protagonists are trying to stabilize one, which is more of a Preservation thing.

And Ruin absolutely did help the crew overthrow TLR! The epigraphs of HOA make that very clear.

Kelsier when alive is absolutely an agent of Ruin (Secret History makes that clear - he's far more Connected to Ruin than Preservation), but Vin is actually more Preservation-y in personality (fear of loss/change), especially after learning trust, despite being an effective killer. And Elend definitely is, and his influence makes Vin more so. Sazed is originally very Preservation before Tindwyl's death.

Also (and Secret History makes this clearer) there's a difference between Preservation itself and its original Vessel, Leras. The near-mindless, half-dead Preservation we see in SH was in favor of the Lord Ruler. But Leras-Preservation's plan was good.

Preservation itself is not "good" it's just less directly/less immediately dangerous than Ruin. Ultimately both are required (Harmony)... and Leras-Preservation seemed to know that when he had his full mind, and set up the Prophecies to lead to Harmony.

Edited August 17, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Shinwarrior]

19 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Sazed is originally very Preservation before Tindwyl's death.

I believe that Sazed is both. That's why he can ascend, cause he's connected to both. Allomany = Preservation. Hemalurgy = Ruin. Feruchemy = Preservation + Ruin. Yes, he is more of a protector before Tindwyl's death, but he is very much both.  

19 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Preservation itself is not "good" it's just less directly/less immediately dangerous than Ruin. Ultimately both are required (Harmony)... and Leras-Preservation seemed to know that when he had his full mind, and set up the Prophecies to lead to Harmony.

This is just my two cents here so take it for what you will, but I don't think that Preservation was the one who set up the Prophecies. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that he was the one to do that. It never once mentions Harmony. (Although it does Discord). I think that Sazed is indeed who it was intended for, just not coming from Preservation. 

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, Shinwarrior said:

I believe that Sazed is both. That's why he can ascend, cause he's connected to both. Allomany = Preservation. Hemalurgy = Ruin. Feruchemy = Preservation + Ruin. Yes, he is more of a protector before Tindwyl's death, but he is very much both.  

This is just my two cents here so take it for what you will, but I don't think that Preservation was the one who set up the Prophecies. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that he was the one to do that. It never once mentions Harmony. (Although it does Discord). I think that Sazed is indeed who it was intended for, just not coming from Preservation. 

At the time Sazed takes up both Shards, he is indeed Connected to both, "so evenly", as Kelsier comments in Secret History. But when Kelsier asks the newly dead Elend how that's possible, Elend says "He has changed, this past year. Ruin is more than death and destruction; it is peace with these things." I think that pretty clearly means that he was more Preservation originally and coming to terms with Tindwyl's death balanced him.

The Prophecies being from Preservation pre-mind-sacrifice is confirmed in the HoA annotations

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Eighty-One - Part One

Prophecy

I wasn't certain how I wanted to treat prophecy in this book. On one hand, it's a staple of fantasy books—and my goal in this series was to take the fantasy staples and turn them upon their heads in a way that hadn't been done before. That meant I needed to include and use them, and so I did. In book two, the prophecies turned out to be false, and Ruin used them to trick Vin into releasing him.

However, the fact that he twisted the prophecies left me with the implication that they had once been true. What does that mean, though? If you look at prophecies in our own religions, very few of them are used like fantasy prophecies. In fantasy novels, it seems like prophecies are intentionally obscure, abstract things intended to confuse people and act as some kind of twisted guidebook for the hero to live his life. Yet, in modern religion—specifically Judaism and Christianity—prophecy is more general. Prophecy in these religions means things like "in the end, the faithful will win." They're general or symbolic. Of more use to the population as a whole, rather than applying to one distinct individual.

Sazed and Tindwyl have a great discussion about this in book two. Regardless, I make use of the prophecies here in the final book. As far as I'm concerned, they were given to the original Terris people by Preservation as a means of maintaining hope. They were a promise—a hero will come; that hero will protect you. Have faith.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (June 1, 2010)

And by WoB:

Chaos   How were the Terris Prophecies created in the first place? Every other magic related thing is quite logically explained in terms of Ruin and Preservation, except that one.  Brandon Sanderson   The Terris prophecies were created by Preservation before he attempted his imprisonment. He knew that he wouldn't be able to do much for the world after he did what he did, and he foresaw a LOT of what was to come.  Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

[Mr. Misting]

Ok, I love this idea and could totally see it working really well in Era 1. It would also be really refreshing to not have the force of destruction incarnate be the villain in a story. This would also help highlight so many of the character conflicts and that Vin and Elend would have.

One question I have is what would Kelsier be doing, would Ati and him being best friends? If so I really want to see that version of Secret History.

[bmcclure7]

On 8/19/2022 at 11:37 AM, Mr. Misting said:

Ok, I love this idea and could totally see it working really well in Era 1. It would also be really refreshing to not have the force of destruction incarnate be the villain in a story. This would also help highlight so many of the character conflicts and that Vin and Elend would have.

One question I have is what would Kelsier be doing, would Ati and him being best friends? If so I really want to see that version of Secret History.

 I strongly disagree. This might have worked for book one, And essentially it is true for book one as as preservation is in a sense the hidden antagonist of book 1. But it makes no sense for the rest of era one.   If Brandon Sanderson was trying to write a story about overthrowing an evil Empire then yes would make sense to make  Ruin the good God and the  Preservation the bad God. 

 

However era one is fundamentally about what happens after you  Defeat the evil Empire. Which is why They defeat the Lord ruler at the end of book one instead of the end of book 3. From that perspective it makes much more sense to have preservation as a good god. 

 

As for how they would get along, It really depends. Atis a God,  It should not be hard for him to act the part of being friends with Kelsey and while Kelsey is a smart man I'm not sure hes smart enough to see through the trick of an immortal, literal God.   Ati would of course turn on him As is intent requires him to but for a time at least he could probably convince Kelsey that he was his friend.

Edited August 23, 2022 by bmcclure7

[bmcclure7]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:43 AM, The Bookwyrm said:

I actually like this idea a lot. Like you said, it would need a lot of changing to make it work, and the series still turned out incredible the way it was written. But the theme makes a lot of sense. 

In Secret History, we actually see that Preservation has a fascination with TLR, and that he was kind of sad and annoyed when TLR died. So small parts of this still existed, even if the whole thing went in another direction.

And your comment in parentheses at the end would make a really good plot point.

 It only really makes sense for book one once the Lord ruler is dead,  There is no reason for preservation to be to be an enemy to our heroes, In contrast once the Lord ruler is dead there's no reason for ruin to be a friend either. 

 

I feel you'd have to make the story much more like a traditional fantasy story to make preservation the bad guy.  Make it a generic trilogy  about a good rebellion vs the evil Empire, then make the main character kelsier instead of vin, then End book 3 with the Lord ruler's death and you can make preservation the bad guy bad but that just is not the way the way Brandon Sanderson wanted to write it. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by bmcclure7

[BinarySecond]

Have you read Secret History?

Spoiler

Leras really whines at Kelsier because he really liked the Lord Ruler because he's a long term game piece. Preservation loves that. Was deeply unhappy that something that was so long preserved has died.

 

[cometaryorbit]

5 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

Have you read Secret History?

  Hide contents

Leras really whines at Kelsier because he really liked the Lord Ruler because he's a long term game piece. Preservation loves that. Was deeply unhappy that something that was so long preserved has died.

 

Yeah... Preservation at the time of the books has a very different view than when he originally made his plan, due to his sacrifice of most of his mind.

Leras seems to have been a good and self-sacrificing person. But the force of Preservation not well controlled isn't a good thing (no Shard in isolation really is: Preservation is less immediately dangerous than some, but still not good).

23 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

However era one is fundamentally about what happens after you  Defeat the evil Empire. Which is why They defeat the Lord ruler at the end of book one instead of the end of book 3.

Yeah, pretty much.

In book 2 the crew & Elend are defending Luthadel and trying to maintain/stabilize/establish a better government than what existed before.

Even in book 3 with the siege of Fadrex City and sowing discord in Urteau, their actual goal is to bring Fadrex and Urteau into the empire -- it's ultimately about building/reestablishing rather than destroying. And ultimately their goal is to preserve the world.

Those aren't Ruin-aligned things at all.

Edited August 24, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Letryx13]

It's an interesting idea, because it's not good to have either Shard independently.  Ruin said that if Preservation had his way he'd just have everything frozen in place.  For me, that isn't saying life wouldn't change for people; it means time would basically be stopped for everyone on Scadrial.  How that would work, I have no idea, but it would be interesting.  

I think the Shards would have to be changed in order for Ruin to end up on the hero's side.  Instead of Preservation and Ruin, they could be Order and Chaos, or something like that.  Order is usually seen as the desirable side, but it could be interesting to see the benefits of Chaos being added to the balance.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

14 minutes ago, Letryx13 said:

I think the Shards would have to be changed in order for Ruin to end up on the hero's side.  Instead of Preservation and Ruin, they could be Order and Chaos, or something like that.  Order is usually seen as the desirable side, but it could be interesting to see the benefits of Chaos being added to the balance.

If you're interested in that dynamic, I highly recommend reading the Inheritance Trilogy by NK Jemisin.

I don't think you'd need to change the shards all that much though; maybe something more like "destruction" and "stagnation", something with a bit closer to the right connotations for this version of the book, but not really a radical shift. No more than is possible through different vessels' interpretations, I wouldn't think

[Letryx13]

8 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

If you're interested in that dynamic, I highly recommend reading the Inheritance Trilogy by NK Jemisin.

I don't think you'd need to change the shards all that much though; maybe something more like "destruction" and "stagnation", something with a bit closer to the right connotations for this version of the book, but not really a radical shift. No more than is possible through different vessels' interpretations, I wouldn't think

I've never heard of that trilogy before, but I'll look into it. 

And that's the whole point of the shards, I think. Perspective shapes everything.  Preservation in the positive is a force of maintaining life, but in the negative is a force of stagnation. Ruin in the positive sense is a force of moving forward and progressing, but in the negative is a force of destruction.  Although, to be fair, Hoid implied in one of his letters that Ati had been twisted into something dark by the power he held. So it's probably not completely neutral.

[cometaryorbit]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:35 AM, Letryx13 said:

I've never heard of that trilogy before, but I'll look into it. 

And that's the whole point of the shards, I think. Perspective shapes everything.  Preservation in the positive is a force of maintaining life, but in the negative is a force of stagnation. Ruin in the positive sense is a force of moving forward and progressing, but in the negative is a force of destruction.  Although, to be fair, Hoid implied in one of his letters that Ati had been twisted into something dark by the power he held. So it's probably not completely neutral.

Yes. *Every* Shard in isolation is dangerous. Some more immediately/obviously so than others, and Ruin is one of those, but they're all one concept taken to dangerous extremes.

Brandon has said that no Shard is really good or evil, but I think that's because the Shard in itself (as distinguished from its Vessel) is basically a force of nature (or metaphysics) without moral agency. Ati was good and became evil, but Ruin in itself is neither. It's essentially entropy.

So Ruin is definitely not "completely neutral" - it's definitely one of the more dangerous Shards (though according to Hoid less so than Odium) and combined with a human being, without the countering influence of another Shard, is very likely to lead to an evil result. But that's not exactly the same thing as "Ruin in itself is evil" - combined with Preservation it can lead to a better result than Preservation alone.

[Letryx13]

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yes. *Every* Shard in isolation is dangerous. Some more immediately/obviously so than others, and Ruin is one of those, but they're all one concept taken to dangerous extremes.

That's probably true to some extent, but some individual shards seem to have been ok. Endowment doesn't seem particularly dangerous.  And both Honor and Cultivation were able to get along fine before Odium came to Roshar. On the other hand, Preservation and Ruin might seem dangerous in isolation because we know exactly what they'd do in isolation.

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Brandon has said that no Shard is really good or evil, but I think that's because the Shard in itself (as distinguished from its Vessel) is basically a force of nature (or metaphysics) without moral agency. Ati was good and became evil, but Ruin in itself is neither. It's essentially entropy.

So Ruin is definitely not "completely neutral" - it's definitely one of the more dangerous Shards (though according to Hoid less so than Odium) and combined with a human being, without the countering influence of another Shard, is very likely to lead to an evil result. But that's not exactly the same thing as "Ruin in itself is evil" - combined with Preservation it can lead to a better result than Preservation alone.

Even the StormFather thinks that Odium is the most dangerous of the 16, so it's safe to say there are a few people who know about the shards and how dangerous they are relative to each other. Granted, the StormFather probably only said that because Honor told him, but still.  Based on what we've seen so far, Ruin is second only to Odium in terms of how dangerous it is, at least in my opinion.  

As for Ruin itself not being evil, it feels similar to Nergaoul, the Thrill. It wasn't malicious; Dalinar confirmed that it was more animal like and wanted to please people.  But that didn't stop it from being dangerous, and leading people to do evil things.  

Of course, if evil were so simple to define, then a certain sentient sword wouldn't be nearly as dangerous (or entertaining).

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

21 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yes. *Every* Shard in isolation is dangerous. Some more immediately/obviously so than others, and Ruin is one of those, but they're all one concept taken to dangerous extremes.

Brandon has said that no Shard is really good or evil, but I think that's because the Shard in itself (as distinguished from its Vessel) is basically a force of nature (or metaphysics) without moral agency. Ati was good and became evil, but Ruin in itself is neither. It's essentially entropy.

So Ruin is definitely not "completely neutral" - it's definitely one of the more dangerous Shards (though according to Hoid less so than Odium) and combined with a human being, without the countering influence of another Shard, is very likely to lead to an evil result. But that's not exactly the same thing as "Ruin in itself is evil" - combined with Preservation it can lead to a better result than Preservation alone.

I mean, sure. But the story doesn't really treat it that way. In era 1, Preservation is pretty clearly the "good" one and Ruin is pretty clearly the "bad" one. Ruin is trying to destroy the world, Preservation is trying to save it. Preservation created a prophecy and a plan to help out our heroes. Preservation does what little he can to help them out. Vin Ascends and becomes preservation. Ruin's magic is murder-based, and is used to mind control people, including Marsh who used to be on our side. There was literally a black-and-white motif played straight. Even if all the shards are a bit more gray, not clearly good and clearly evil, in the particular story of mistborn era 1, Preservation is clearly acting as the good one and ruin as the bad one. And I think it would have been interesting to continue the revolutionary themes of the first book by switching that dynamic

[cometaryorbit]

18 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

That's probably true to some extent, but some individual shards seem to have been ok. Endowment doesn't seem particularly dangerous.  And both Honor and Cultivation were able to get along fine before Odium came to Roshar. On the other hand, Preservation and Ruin might seem dangerous in isolation because we know exactly what they'd do in isolation.

Even the StormFather thinks that Odium is the most dangerous of the 16, so it's safe to say there are a few people who know about the shards and how dangerous they are relative to each other. Granted, the StormFather probably only said that because Honor told him, but still.  Based on what we've seen so far, Ruin is second only to Odium in terms of how dangerous it is, at least in my opinion.  

As for Ruin itself not being evil, it feels similar to Nergaoul, the Thrill. It wasn't malicious; Dalinar confirmed that it was more animal like and wanted to please people.  But that didn't stop it from being dangerous, and leading people to do evil things.  

Of course, if evil were so simple to define, then a certain sentient sword wouldn't be nearly as dangerous (or entertaining).

Honor was once pretty sensible, but during his last years he went crazy. I think there's a big difference between a Shard filtered by a fully coherent Vessel and a Shard uncontrolled or held by a badly damaged or dying Vessel. I think the same applies to Endowment.

Part of what makes Ruin or Odium more dangerous IMO is that a good person will have a really hard time controlling that Shard.

--

As for why I wouldn't like swapping the roles, from the Unpopular Opinions thread:

Unpopular opinion: I actually think Well of Ascension is one of Brandon's best books. The whole, actually having to build something new to replace the old and deal with the difficulties of that, aspect - rather than just ending the story with defeating the villain as is typical.

Destroying is always easier than building new things - even when something needs to be destroyed, fixing things afterward is nearly always the harder part. But also nearly always the ignored/forgotten part, both in fiction and in the way we talk about RL history (the rebuilding after WWII is much less known than the major battles of WWII).

Edited August 31, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Letryx13]

On 8/31/2022 at 2:26 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Honor was once pretty sensible, but during his last years he went crazy. I think there's a big difference between a Shard filtered by a fully coherent Vessel and a Shard uncontrolled or held by a badly damaged or dying Vessel. I think the same applies to Endowment.

Part of what makes Ruin or Odium more dangerous IMO is that a good person will have a really hard time controlling that Shard.

Honor's madness always felt like Odium's doing to me.  So it's kind of hard to compare the two.  Is there a difference to innate character going in to becoming a shard and what happens to the person afterward? Hard to say.

And, I think it's more about the concept of the shard itself.  Honor (not the shard) is a very subjective concept, very nuanced. As is cultivation.  Because of that, there are different ways to look at them. Preservation and ruin on the other hand, are more direct ideas. Preservation is about keeping things orderly and the same, while Ruin is about breaking them down to their most basic components.  I think that straightforward nature makes it harder to control, like driving on a more narrow road.

On 8/31/2022 at 2:26 PM, cometaryorbit said:

As for why I wouldn't like swapping the roles, from the Unpopular Opinions thread:

Unpopular opinion: I actually think Well of Ascension is one of Brandon's best books. The whole, actually having to build something new to replace the old and deal with the difficulties of that, aspect - rather than just ending the story with defeating the villain as is typical.

Destroying is always easier than building new things - even when something needs to be destroyed, fixing things afterward is nearly always the harder part. But also nearly always the ignored/forgotten part, both in fiction and in the way we talk about RL history (the rebuilding after WWII is much less known than the major battles of WWII).

Actually, I agree with you about WoA.  I like the idea of exploring what happens after the evil emperor is overthrown, which is usually where most stories end. Building up is much more difficult than destroying. Of course, neither Preservation or Ruin could truly build on their own, but that's a different matter.

I just think it's an interesting idea to explore the story where the protagonist and antagonist swap perspectives.  Kind of like when they made that Maleficent movie, with her as the protagonist.

[cometaryorbit]

5 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

Honor's madness always felt like Odium's doing to me.  So it's kind of hard to compare the two.

Well, Honor no longer having an intact mind was Odium's doing. But *how Honor acted in that state* I think is just the nature of the Shard.

Leras-Preservation with full mind could see that Preservation alone was ultimately insufficient, and start a plan intended to end in Harmony's Ascension. Fuzz/near mindless Leras-Preservation in SH was all "the Lord Ruler is great". That's Preservation largely unfiltered by a functional Vessel, IMO.

Edited September 2, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Letryx13]

14 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Well, Honor no longer having an intact mind was Odium's doing. But *how Honor acted in that state* I think is just the nature of the Shard.

Probably. At least to some extent.

14 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Leras-Preservation with full mind could see that Preservation alone was ultimately insufficient, and start a plan intended to end in Harmony's Ascension. Fuzz/near mindless Leras-Preservation in SH was all "the Lord Ruler is great". That's Preservation largely unfiltered by a functional Vessel, IMO.

Well, Preservation being in that kind of state could be the exact thing that turns him into a good villain.  Something that would normally be considered a positive force; order, maintaining life, etc, and turned into an obsession to keep things exactly the way they are, no matter how bad.  

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:34 AM, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

I think that part of the message is that kelsier was sickeningly destructive. Preservation is good because his inherent intent is the protection of humanity. One thing i really like about the well of acension is that it shows the fallout of overthrowing a long established government. You are left seriously asking if that much death is worth it. Thus it makes sense that a good being who wanted to save humans would allow something like the final empire

I’m probably gonna start a debate or say an unpopular opinion, but I never understood takes like this. To be honest, I blame it on the infamous “Kelsier is a psychopath” WoB.

Kelsier is not sickeningly destructive. He doesn’t blow up cities or kill people for fun. He legitimately cares about his crew and the skaa, tried to save the world from Rashek’s tyrannical stagnation and Ruin’s destruction, loves Mare, and hates Ruin even though he’s very Connected to Ruin. Kelsier is flawed, not destructive. One good noble doesn’t prove that Kelsier’s slaughter of nobles wasn’t justified. His approach towards skaa who worked for nobles is iffy, but it’s still justified considering… well, their employers.

I like that aspect of The Well of Ascension too. But the destruction of the Final Empire was objectively worth it. Power struggles and vacuums will always exists after the fall of an empire. But Rashek killed way more people than Kelsier could ever hope. 

A good being, no matter how much they wanted to protect people, wouldn’t allow something like the Final Empire. Granted, I think Rashek was part of Preservation’s Plan. But that still does introduce messed up things about Preservation. Hell, Rashek could use the Well’s power because he was Connected to Preservation’s attributes.

 

Anyway, I am absolutely in love with the concept of Preservation being the antagonist of Era 1. I love Sanderson but he did a piss poor job implying situations Ruin could be the good guy while Preservation is the bad guy. Even after reading Secret History, I was pretty disappointed by the lack of nuance within Ruin and Preservation’s conflict.

I’m honestly in the mood to write fanfic where Preservation is the bad guy or antagonist, and Ruin is the good guy or protagonist.

My friend is actually writing an AU with this idea. He was sharing ideas yesterday over on the 17th Shard Discord server. My friend’s username is Fox. These are his messages describing the AU:

Quote

Mistborn AU where Ruin is the protagonist and Preservation is the antagonist

Ati was able to control Ruin a little bit more, channeling its Intent to destroy things that harmed humanity. But Preservation still did not like this destruction. He would rather humanity be harmed, but not destroyed, so long as everything in the universe stays stable with all its processes working smoothly. In his mind, Ruin is messing with the natural order of things, so he locks Ruin up. Preservation in this AU is more stable, so he continues to affect things around Scadrial to keep everything The Same. But Ruin was still trying to get out. Alendi and all that stuff happens, but Preservation uses Rashek killing Alendi for his own goals, manipulating him to create an empire without change. It doesn’t matter if people suffer, so long as everything is The Same.

Flash forward to the books, and Ruin manages to get enough of his power into the world to infuse Kelsier with some of it (fun morally good destruction guy, Ruin loves him). Kelsier notices he has some weird powers that he shouldn’t have, and it excites him, but it also freaks him it since he has no idea where it comes from. Eventually, an Inquisitor “accidentally” spikes him so Ruin can speak to him, explaining his plans. Kelsier is excited because a god trying to kill The Lord Ruler? Awesome! So he works with Ruin to kill Rashek. He still dies in this AU but becomes a Cognitive Shadow with Ruin’s Investiture, not Preservation’s.

Ruin figures out that in order to stop Preservation, they *both* need to be destroyed, so most from here on out goes similar to canon, with Harmony/Discord being created. Vin still has to take the power of Preservation to defeat Ruin, which really pisses Kel off.

 

Quote

Ruin is a protagonist in this AU in that him and Kel have the same goals- kill The Lord Ruler and destroy anything that tries to harm humanity. But Ruin is still the god of destruction, and still starts to destroy the world in HoA, because he sees it as necessary to prevent Preservation from causing people to suffer. When he realizes that he too is making humanity suffer, he purposely causes the actions that lead to his death and Harmony being created. Ati knows he’s losing himself and it’s terrifying