I'm reading The Stormlight Archive for the first time

[king of nowhere]

9 hours ago, Amira said:

Which means Dalinar only started investigating after Kaladin had gone to jail for challenging Amaram, so I'm not sure what could have been avoided.

not necessarily.

perhaps he did interrogate the 17 witnesses before that, after kaladin came to him the first time, and since all witnesses dismissed kaladin's accusations, dalinar filed it away. when kaladin issued the challenge, dalinar decided to give it another go

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Amira said:

Yes, I get it, but this doesn't seem "smart." The whole idea of locking him away when he's smart doesn't work for me. Either his ideas are smart, or they're not.

He's smart, but in a different way. He's less emotional during that time so it makes him make purly "logical" decisions. But others don't see it that way, they are still emotional and see in the way he can't.

10 hours ago, Amira said:

I'm not talking about bonding it. I'm talking about how after it was bonded, Dalinar hid it so Amaram could find it (the "treasure"). Dalinar did this so he could summon it back, as he did in the scene we saw. During all the time when the Blade was hidden, it was away from Dalinar and didn't turn to smoke. Why was Dalinar able to do that while Adolin couldn't even throw his Blade a few feet?

Training. Dalinar has much more experience with a Blade. And commending your blade to stay is a common practice - people can rent king's Shardblade to fight and train. Throwing a blade is a bit different - but I think Adolin was too distracted by emotions to achieve this at that time. 

10 hours ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 77: Yikes, Shallan was taken by Kaladin just as much as - if not more than - Kaladin was taken by Shallan. This is going to complicate things. I'm glad to see Kaladin is fully against what Moash is doing now, although I hate that he feels like there's nothing he can do about it (even if I understand why he feels this way, and the Weeping isn't helping his mood). Sometimes it frustrates me how Kaladin is always on the edge of not acting, considering how capable he is.

Remember that Kaladin went through a lot. He used to be very active, and usually his actions didn't change anything - him going to army to care after Tien, trying to save young boys in army, multiple escapes from slave owners etc. He's still stuck in that mindset, knowing that he will fail.

 

10 hours ago, Amira said:

So I believe there are 3 Honorblades in play now belonging to Szeth, Dalinar, and Shallan.

Interesting, why Shallan and Dalinar?

9 hours ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 78: Ahh, Shallan told Dalinar about her powers!! And Rlain is back! Exciting!

Chapter 79: I like Rlain. And having some human-Parshendi friendships will be good for this world.

Yup, finally, it's happening! It's all coming together! And it was Shallan who told it first, not Kaladin.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

57 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Interesting, why Shallan and Dalinar?

10 hours ago, Amira said:

Well, I think I see where she comes from: Dalinar bonded a blade that came from Taln, who had an Honorblade as a herald - assuming he isn't just a madman. Shallan's blade didn't scream when Kaladin touched it, and is noted to be different frommother shardblades at least twice.

Though, I probably should let Amira explain her reasoning. I could se other points towards that, I think.

In relation to other things: Shallan and Kaladin at the chasms is one of my favorite parts of the entire series, if not my overall favorite. There are people out there who prefer shipping Shallan with Kaladin to shipping her with Adolin - but yeah, usually ships aren't my thing. I don't do them - especially not ship battles and things like that. 

Anyway, yup. Here we go for the final stretch, I guess.

[Amira]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Training. Dalinar has much more experience with a Blade. And commending your blade to stay is a common practice - people can rent king's Shardblade to fight and train. Throwing a blade is a bit different - but I think Adolin was too distracted by emotions to achieve this at that time.

I didn't even think about the king's Blade. Is Elhokar bonded to his Blade? I find it weird that Elhokar can make his Blade stay and Adolin can't. I don't understand how throwing it is different.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Interesting, why Shallan and Dalinar?

1 hour ago, Trutharchivist said:

Well, I think I see where she comes from: Dalinar bonded a blade that came from Taln, who had an Honorblade as a herald - assuming he isn't just a madman. Shallan's blade didn't scream when Kaladin touched it, and is noted to be different frommother shardblades at least twice.

Though, I probably should let Amira explain her reasoning. I could se other points towards that, I think.

Correct, Dalinar bonded Taln's Blade. Taln is supposedly a Herald, so he would have an Honorblade. Shallan's Blade had those glowing designs that Kaladin noticed in the chasms that he noted weren't present on other Blades, and it shrank in size for Shallan to cut the rocks for their shelter, which I thought might also be something special.

SA2, chapter 80: Do we know for sure that what Elhokar was seeing in mirrors and corners was cryptics? Does this mean he'll become a Lightweaver? Because that would be really weird.

On 1/20/2023 at 11:28 PM, Treamayne said:

I would call it around Ch 81. Very hard to put down from then until the end.

I'm glad things are about to start moving, because it feels like this book has so much to cram into its final stretch! A resolution to the Moash thread, Kaladin getting his powers back, Szeth vs Kaladin rematch, Dalinar and Adolin finding out about Kaladin's powers, the battle against the Parshendi, and Shallan finding Urithiru. Did I miss anything else? Probably.

[Treamayne]

23 minutes ago, Amira said:

I'm glad things are about to start moving, because it feels like this book has so much to cram into its final stretch! A resolution to the Moash thread, Kaladin getting his powers back, Szeth vs Kaladin rematch, Dalinar and Adolin finding out about Kaladin's powers, the battle against the Parshendi, and Shallan finding Urithiru. Did I miss anything else? Probably.

Just one more thing - you'll find it in the Epilogue.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

I didn't even think about the king's Blade. Is Elhokar bonded to his Blade? I find it weird that Elhokar can make his Blade stay and Adolin can't. I don't understand how throwing it is different.

Elhokar is bonded to his blade. But there is also another blade that King has, Gavilar's blade (his father), which is unbonded and used for training and dueling. 

I've reread that chapter when Adolin was throwing the Blade. It's just after he was beaten by Szeth, he wasn't emotionally stable and wasn't able to mentally command his Blade to stay physical. He was under a lot of stress and even feared that Szeth would just drop from the sky anytime. He succeeded after third time.

1 hour ago, Amira said:

Correct, Dalinar bonded Taln's Blade. Taln is supposedly a Herald, so he would have an Honorblade. Shallan's Blade had those glowing designs that Kaladin noticed in the chasms that he noted weren't present on other Blades, and it shrank in size for Shallan to cut the rocks for their shelter, which I thought might also be something special.

Good arguments.You're taking notice of important details and making reasonable theories.

1 hour ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 80: Do we know for sure that what Elhokar was seeing in mirrors and corners was cryptics? Does this mean he'll become a Lightweaver? Because that would be really weird.

Elhokar mentioned in WoK ch 58 that he sees unhuman faces and symbols in the mirrors watching him.  And that's the only think that was told so far.

This chapter made me look differently on Elhokar. He wants to be a good king. He wants to make the right decisions. He wants to be beloved and just. But he doesn't know how to do it. He was forced to become a king in a young age and 5 years had passed and still nobody ever taught him how to be a king. Even Dalinar just tells him what to do, and makes decisions for him, but never teaches him how to act like a good king. 

1 hour ago, Amira said:

I'm glad things are about to start moving, because it feels like this book has so much to cram into its final stretch! A resolution to the Moash thread, Kaladin getting his powers back, Szeth vs Kaladin rematch, Dalinar and Adolin finding out about Kaladin's powers, the battle against the Parshendi, and Shallan finding Urithiru. Did I miss anything else? Probably.

Numbers on the wall after Dalinar's visions. 

[Returned]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:27 PM, Amira said:

So, um, in what book do we meet this horrid Nightwatcher? I hate her; don't know why so many characters seek her.

She (potentially) gives quick access to things that are hard to get, or can't be come by any other way. People seek her out for all the usual reasons someone might take a bad, or at least dangerous deal: desperation, arrogance, thirst for power. I'll be interested to hear if your outlook changes any down the line.

On 1/20/2023 at 8:27 PM, Amira said:

I understand that part of his curse is to lose his compassion on days when he's smarter, but talking the dumb half of the city into committing suicide is dumb any way you look at it. On the one hand it's dumb to think it can be pulled off; on the other hand it's dumb to think it's a good idea when your main goal is world domination (or whatever he's going for) via making everyone like you. Killing half the city would put a dent in the plan to make people like him, so why would he think it's a good idea on a day when he's supposedly smart?

[...]

Yes, I get it, but this doesn't seem "smart." The whole idea of locking him away when he's smart doesn't work for me. Either his ideas are smart, or they're not.

I think that you're using a broader and more judgement-containing definition of "smart" than what is related to Taravangian's boon/curse, and maybe not appreciating his moral system (a very hard-edged utilitarianism). "Smart" Taravangian (a designation with an ambiguous cutoff) isn't hyper-rational, exactly, just really good at dry computation and extrapolation. He also loses access to some traits that are hard to quantify, like empathy, and so cannot factor them into his designs. It's a bit like asking how someone can be perceptive if they're blind.

He definitely has the resources to make it happen (a strong enough "suggestion" of suicide which is indistinguishable from murder). He really thought that the city would be better off without all of the "dumb" chaff in it. And he really thought that people (the survivors, anyways) would be onboard with the idea of killing the "dumb" half of the city because of that. And certainly his designation of the "smart" half includes that they would appreciate that improvement borne of the massacre. His total lack of ability to empathize prevented him from appreciating that other people might disagree with his calculation (unthinkable, since he's so much smarter than everyone) or that emotional factors might influence how they viewed his plan. I guarantee that, if you could convince him to explain his reasoning, he'd be able to present some very cogent equations indicating why that half of the population simply had to go, and that you'd have a hard time refuting them under the philosophy he espouses.

There is some really interesting stuff that buds off from Taravangian's boon/curse, and adhering to the Diagram that he trusts but can't quite understand. I like your line of thinking on it, and hope that you'll continue to post your thoughts as you encounter more of him in the future. It's a very intriguing setup that he could be so intelligent as to create the Diagram, but also be wrong-- is something a bad idea because on a given day he's too smart and therefore too heartless, or because on that day he's super-smart but not smart enough to appreciate the error?

 

[BinarySecond]

Honestly this thread has become disruptive to my own audiobook schedule. I'm doing Wheel of Time and reading your experience going through WoR makes me want to pause and go back to it.

 

I'm so very excited for your thoughts on these last chapters

[Amira]

On 1/22/2023 at 11:06 AM, Treamayne said:

Just one more thing - you'll find it in the Epilogue.

Oh, yeah, we need to see how Shallan came upon her Shardblade! (Not sure if this is what we find in the epilogue, but it's the thing I forgot).

 

11 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

Honestly this thread has become disruptive to my own audiobook schedule. I'm doing Wheel of Time and reading your experience going through WoR makes me want to pause and go back to it.

I'm so very excited for your thoughts on these last chapters

Aw, thank you! I'm honored to be your disruption.

SA2, chapter 81: So this was a chapter about everyone: Dalinar, Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan. Loved Dalinar's speech! Loved the other scholars finding out about Pattern! I'm looking forward to Kaladin meeting pattern Somehow didn't fully realize Kaladin was still debating about Elhokar, but now he's finally done debating, he's going to save Elhokar. Go, Kaladin, go!

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 81: So this was a chapter about everyone: Dalinar, Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan. Loved Dalinar's speech! Loved the other scholars finding out about Pattern! I'm looking forward to Kaladin meeting pattern. Somehow didn't fully realize Kaladin was still debating about Elhokar, but now he's finally done debating, he's going to save Elhokar. Go, Kaladin, go!

Earlier in the book, we told you Pattern has many more great moments coming. . . this was one of the best. 

Spoiler

“It is likely involved,” Inadara said. “You should not dismiss one of my theories so quickly. I still think it might be related to the Voidbringers.”

“Know you nothing of Patterns, old human?” Pattern said, huffing. When had he picked up how to huff? “Voidbringers have no pattern. Besides, I have read of them in your lore. They speak of spindly arms like bone, and horrific faces. I should think, if you wish to find one, the mirror might be a location where you can begin your search.”

Inadara recoiled. Then she stomped away, moving to chat with Brightness Velat and the ardent Isasik about their interpretation of Shallan’s map.

Also, if you didn't catch the name-drop - Isasik - It's the Roshar "version" of Issac Stewart (non-Spoiler)

Spoiler

Brandon's Art Director and artist for much of the Cosmere artwork and maps. Also mentioned ealier in Ch 76:

Quote

Behind them rode a large group of Navani’s scholars and cartographers, including Isasik, the ardent who was the royal cartographer. 

 

 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

SA2, chapter 81: So this was a chapter about everyone: Dalinar, Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan. Loved Dalinar's speech! Loved the other scholars finding out about Pattern! I'm looking forward to Kaladin meeting pattern Somehow didn't fully realize Kaladin was still debating about Elhokar, but now he's finally done debating, he's going to save Elhokar. Go, Kaladin, go!

It's happening! Sanderlanche is coming!  

[Amira]

SA2, chapter 82: The battle in the rain continues, and now Kaladin has to fight two full Shardbearers while he's injured without Stormlight - and one of them is Moash! This is going to be a mess! Maybe Syl will come to him in the last minute.

Chapter 83: Now it's Adolin's turn to fight Eshonai. Shallan gets closer to finding the gate, and Dalinar gets called Son of Honor like Kaladin. Moash and Kaladin fail to convince one another, and now it looks like they're going to fight.

84: The Shardblade fit into the keyhole that Shallan found! OMG Szeth is on the Shattered Plains among the battling characters, aaaahhh!!!! A good thing, though, because there aren't that many chapters left! As expected, Syl returned to Kaladin in the nick of time after he said the Third Ideal, and... turned into a Shardblade?? But I thought she hated Shards! Turns out Graves is on Taravangian's team. In fact, my theory is that he and his little group are actually the Ghostbloods! Maybe? Anyway, now Kaladin had better put Elhokar somewhere safe real quick and head toward Dalinar at terminal velocity if you know what I mean...

Edited January 25, 2023 by Amira

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Amira said:

Turns out Graves is on Taravangian's team. In fact, my theory is that he and his little group are actually the Ghostbloods! Maybe?

Taravangian's "team" was named in Interlude 14:

Spoiler

They are "The Diagram" : (slight Spoiler)

Spoiler

and King Taravangian isn't on anybody's team but his own

You've actually "seen" four "secret societies" on Roshar so far, though I think only two have been named at this point.

Quote

Anyway, now Kaladin had better put Elhokar somewhere safe real quick and head toward Dalinar at terminal velocity if you know what I mean...

Hmmmmm. . . Good use of "Terminal Velocity"

[Amira]

49 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Taravangian's "team" was named in Interlude 14:

  Reveal hidden contents

They are "The Diagram" : (slight Spoiler)

  Reveal hidden contents

and King Taravangian isn't on anybody's team but his own

You've actually "seen" four "secret societies" on Roshar so far, though I think only two have been named at this point.

 

Okay, so the Diagram and the Ghostbloods are two different groups. I wonder if they're working together or against each other. Amaram clearly doesn't belong to the Ghostbloods, seeing as they were spying on him, so maybe he belongs to the Diagram? Unless there's a third group. If Amaram *does* belong to the Diagram, does that mean Helaran is part of the Ghostbloods? Or do we already know this?

Never mind. More exciting things at the moment.

SA2, chapter 85: This bit from the Diagram: But who is the wanderer, the wild piece [...] - is that about Hoid?? This cracked me up: "Rats had a better chance fighting a chasmfiend." Dalinar, Adolin, and the bridgemen fight Szeth! I liked the part where Dalinar realizes he couldn't have saved Gavilar even if he hadn't been drunk. And then Kaladin shows up! Yay Kaladin! And now for the rematch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheOtherDave]

4 minutes ago, Amira said:

But who is the wanderer, the wild piece [...] - is that about Hoid??

That was my first thought. I honestly don’t remember off the top of my head if we find out later.

[Treamayne]

23 minutes ago, Amira said:

Okay, so the Diagram and the Ghostbloods are two different groups. I wonder if they're working together or against each other. Amaram clearly doesn't belong to the Ghostbloods, seeing as they were spying on him, so maybe he belongs to the Diagram? Unless there's a third group. If Amaram *does* belong to the Diagram, does that mean Helaran is part of the Ghostbloods? Or do we already know this?

In my Spoiler above, I mentioned four Societies - two of which are the Diagram and the Ghostboods.

Amaram is part of a third and Heleran was associated with the Fourth.

Quote

SA2, chapter 85: This bit from the Diagram: But who is the wanderer, the wild piece [...] - is that about Hoid??

Hoid is one of the possibilities. Two more "candidates" were also in this book.

Quote

This cracked me up: "Rats had a better chance fighting a chasmfiend." Dalinar, Adolin, and the bridgemen fight Szeth! I liked the part where Dalinar realizes he couldn't have saved Gavilar even if he hadn't been drunk. And then Kaladin shows up! Yay Kaladin! And now for the rematch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Told you it would Sanderlanche

[Amira]

It is past midnight; happy birthday. I am 32 in case you were wondering. I need to sleep badly so I will read about Kaladin vs Szeth in the morning, or, you know, later in the day. Nice birthday gift 

[TheOtherDave]

Happy Birthday! 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

3 hours ago, Amira said:

It is past midnight; happy birthday. I am 32 in case you were wondering. I need to sleep badly so I will read about Kaladin vs Szeth in the morning, or, you know, later in the day. Nice birthday gift 

Happy birthday!

[BinarySecond]

Happy birthday!

[Trutharchivist he/him]

4 hours ago, Amira said:

It is past midnight; happy birthday. I am 32 in case you were wondering. I need to sleep badly so I will read about Kaladin vs Szeth in the morning, or, you know, later in the day. Nice birthday gift 

Happy birthday! And yup, those are epic scenes.

Though the most epic scenes in this book, in my opinion, are Kaladin's third ideal and the four on (kind of) three duel.

Also... I think you're one of the few Sharders I interact with regularly who are older than me. It's not that it's hard - I'm just 22 - but it is kind of weird.

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, Amira said:

It is past midnight; happy birthday. I am 32 in case you were wondering. I need to sleep badly so I will read about Kaladin vs Szeth in the morning, or, you know, later in the day. Nice birthday gift 

Happy Birthday. . . 

Though, I thought it was the eleventh anniversary of being 21?

How should I know? I stopped counting a few years ago after my 21st anniversary of turning 21.

48 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

I think you're one of the few Sharders I interact with regularly who are older than me. It's not that it's hard - I'm just 22 - but it is kind of weird.

It's good to see some o' you youngins gain an appreciation for media that isn't all flashing lights, explosions, and plotless bad acting.

Sarcasm aside - Kindness, consideration, and open-mindedness know no age boundaries; and those are what matter in the sharing of thoughts, ideas, and passions. Please don't let age differences get in the way of being a decent human sharing and discussing something you enjoy with (virtual) strangers. After all, every friend was an unknown stranger at some point, and future friends can't emerge until both parties cross the threshold of unknown to known.

[Trutharchivist he/him]

11 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Sarcasm aside - Kindness, consideration, and open-mindedness know no age boundaries; and those are what matter in the sharing of thoughts, ideas, and passions. Please don't let age differences get in the way of being a decent human sharing and discussing something you enjoy with (virtual) strangers. After all, every friend was an unknown stranger at some point, and future friends can't emerge until both parties cross the threshold of unknown to known.

True, true. This is getting off topic, but look at it this way - all those other people I'm in contact with are younger than me, so from their point of view it's all very different. If I had let age differences get in the way, I wouldn't have been talking to anyone around here, really. 

This is hard, but I'm sure there's a way to reconnect it to the topic. Also, time zones are more in the way of interactions - and I'm almost half the world away from most people here - the Americans, at least. Can be something of a pain sometimes.

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

Also, time zones are more in the way of interactions - and I'm almost half the world away from most people here - the Americans, at least. Can be something of a pain sometimes.

When I lived in Japan I was +17hrs from friends and family, so I am familiar with the dilemma. OTOH, I also experienced a similar disconnect on Shift work in the US - being awake only when others were asleep and very grateful for digital friends across the globe in various timezones (Europe, Asia, Oceania) with whom I could share converse during my "day."

And to circle back, Amira's willpower in being able to set the climax aside is astounding (I think I got 2 hrs sleep the night I read it because I couldn't set it aside until at least Ch 87).

Edited January 25, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Elder]

6 hours ago, Amira said:

It is past midnight; happy birthday. I am 32 in case you were wondering. I need to sleep badly so I will read about Kaladin vs Szeth in the morning, or, you know, later in the day. Nice birthday gift 

Happy Birthday!