Could we guess the last Shard ?

[The Sibling]

3 minutes ago, PurpurPhönix said:

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Shard has a list of all known Shards (-Virtuosity as they don't put non-published works on the Coppermind)

Cool, thanks!

[Elegy]

My personal guess is that the wisdom and survival Shards are among those that have already been revealed (mind that the Shard's Intent is only tangentally related to survival, which the concept of Prudence is not, in my opinion it's closely related. So it could also be Invention and they found out something that makes them hide, for example).

I'd probably go with Justice as an opposite of Mercy. Although that might be included in Honor, but there are other Shards with Intents that are kinda close to each other.

Invention is probably not just a science Shard but also an artistic Shard as well, since as an artist, you have ideas and invent something, create something new. There's a lot of Invention in creating something like the Cosmere with all those intricate concepts. Then again, of course there is a lot of science in creating a work of art (Brandon teaching at BYU being a good example of that).

Virtuosity I understand as some kind of perfectionist Shard as well. Like, the Shard that can't stand when something isn't virtually perfect. I don't think it's about "becoming a virtuoso" because that is closer to Ambition or Cultivation. Virtuosity would be closer to something that expects everything to be accomplished in the first place. Maybe the stress of that is what made her splinter herself?

She would have been savage as a reviewer, I'm sure.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

On 3/22/2022 at 4:33 AM, Elegy said:

My personal guess is that the wisdom and survival Shards are among those that have already been revealed (mind that the Shard's Intent is only tangentally related to survival, which the concept of Prudence is not, in my opinion it's closely related. So it could also be Invention and they found out something that makes them hide, for example).

I'd probably go with Justice as an opposite of Mercy. Although that might be included in Honor, but there are other Shards with Intents that are kinda close to each other.

Invention is probably not just a science Shard but also an artistic Shard as well, since as an artist, you have ideas and invent something, create something new. There's a lot of Invention in creating something like the Cosmere with all those intricate concepts. Then again, of course there is a lot of science in creating a work of art (Brandon teaching at BYU being a good example of that).

Virtuosity I understand as some kind of perfectionist Shard as well. Like, the Shard that can't stand when something isn't virtually perfect. I don't think it's about "becoming a virtuoso" because that is closer to Ambition or Cultivation. Virtuosity would be closer to something that expects everything to be accomplished in the first place. Maybe the stress of that is what made her splinter herself?

She would have been savage as a reviewer, I'm sure.

why would justice be the opposite of mercy? justice and mercy actually go hand in hand.

[PurpurPhönix]

12 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

justice and mercy actually go hand in hand.

Do they? I'd argue that being just usually means not being merciful. If someone deserves punishment and you give it them, that's not mercy that's justice. If someone deserves punishment but you choose to forgo that punishment, that's merciful but not justice

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

Just now, PurpurPhönix said:

Do they? I'd argue that being just usually means not being merciful. If someone deserves punishment and you give it them, that's not mercy that's justice. If someone deserves punishment but you choose to forgo that punishment, that's merciful but not justice

in that scenario yes. but then again, it could be. because theoretically preserving something long enough could bring ruin.

[Humble_Knight]

I really like Endowment being the "opposite" of Mercy. They are both gifts, one out of respect, the other from empathy/sympathy. We have heard that Ruin / Preservation are the biggest opposites, so I like several others not being perfect opposites. Here's my pairings in roughly level of confidence

Ruin - Preservation

Devotion - Odium

Autonomy - Dominion

Honor - Whimsy

Mercy - Endowment

Virtuosity - Invention

Ambition - Cultivation

Valor - Prudence (Wisdom)

I think the first 3 pairings are the most obvious, and the 4th makess sense to me as one is about conviction and the other is about spontaneity. I like pairing different kinds of gifts, one being given to one of respect, the other being a gift to those who you see as needing help. The next two are my best attempt at taking those 4 shards and pairing them off. The weird one is Ambition and Cultivation, I look at it as growing ones self or growing others. I put Valor / Prudence at the bottom because it is the most up in the air, but I like more than I do the other two bottom pairings

My 2 cents

[RedBlue]

So ... in the SP3 spoiler stream, Brandon said that the fandom already knows what the last Shard is. Not the exact word, but the general idea.

I think he must be referring to the survival/wisdom theory. That’s the prevailing theory in the fandom, and Brandon has often fielded questions about a survival/wisdom-based Shard, so he’s definitely aware of it. 

As for the name of the Shard, Prudence (Caution? Discretion?) seems like a strong possibility. Or maybe it’s more along the lines of Wisdom. Sagacity?

[cometaryorbit]

I doubt Invention is the Wisdom/Prudence Shard. I think Invention is a counterpart to Virtuosity, being 'technological' creativity vs 'artistic' creativity.

The Prudence one might be more of a counterpart to Honor. Honor is about keeping oaths, but not necessarily with regard to their content/value. I think the Prudence one might be more like judgment of values... perhaps the Intent could be Discernment?

 

[RedBlue]

I’m a bit confused about why so many people are talking about Shards having ‘opposites’ or ‘counterparts’. 

I get that Ruin and Preservation were often assumed to be polar opposites back in the Mistborn Era 1 days, but with the context of the rest of the cosmere, they’re just two Shards with conflicting Intents who were fighting over a planet. There’s nothing inherent to Ruin or Preservation that makes them a pair.

Have I missed something, or are Shard pairs just speculation?

[Frustration]

17 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I’m a bit confused about why so many people are talking about Shards having ‘opposites’ or ‘counterparts’. 

I get that Ruin and Preservation were often assumed to be polar opposites back in the Mistborn Era 1 days, but with the context of the rest of the cosmere, they’re just two Shards with conflicting Intents who were fighting over a planet. There’s nothing inherent to Ruin or Preservation that makes them a pair.

Have I missed something, or are Shard pairs just speculation?

It's just speculation.

[+mdross81]

I've been searching through my cosmere books for hints on the identities of Hoid's other two apprentices, but instead turned up another bit of evidence that seems to support the idea of "Wisdom" or something similar as that last Shard.

In the WoK epilogue, when Hoid is waiting for Taln and discussing what men value most with the guards in Kholinar, he says:

Quote

"I once asked this question of some very wise scholars. What do men consider the most valuable of talents? One mentioned artistic ability, as you so keenly guessed. Another chose great intellect. The final chose the talent to invent, the ability to design and create marvelous devices."

With Virtuosity and Invention now known to be Shards, this line jumped out at me in a new way, and seems like it could be some additional support for the idea of Wisdom, or as Hoid puts it here "great intellect," as a Shard.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by mdross81

[drunkenbotanist]

1 hour ago, mdross81 said:

I've been searching through my cosmere books for hints on the identifies of Hoid's other two apprentices, but instead turned up another bit of evidence that seems to support the idea of "Wisdom" or something similar as that last Shard.

In the WoK epilogue, when Hoid is waiting for Taln and discussing what men value most with the guards in Kholinar, her says:

With Virtuosity and Invention now known to be Shards, this line jumped out at me in a new way, and seems like it could be some additional support for the idea of Wisdom, or as Hoid puts it here "great intellect," as a Shard.

 

Also makes for a new potential speculative dawnshard category: value? Talent? Maybe these three are part of create?

 

I was very struct by this comparison and then I realized that he explains how all three are bested by time, and time is meaningless in the spiritual realm and then I got very confused with what Brandon could be trying to do if this was a deliberate attempt to tease shards

Maybe this part is also relevant who knows

 

“So what is the most valuable talent a man can have?” He sounded genuinely curious.

“I haven’t the faintest idea,” Wit said. “Fortunately, that wasn’t the question. I didn’t ask what was most valuable, I asked what men value most. The difference between those questions is at once both tiny and as vast as the world itself.”

 

 

 

[cometaryorbit]

6 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I’m a bit confused about why so many people are talking about Shards having ‘opposites’ or ‘counterparts’. 

I get that Ruin and Preservation were often assumed to be polar opposites back in the Mistborn Era 1 days, but with the context of the rest of the cosmere, they’re just two Shards with conflicting Intents who were fighting over a planet. There’s nothing inherent to Ruin or Preservation that makes them a pair.

Have I missed something, or are Shard pairs just speculation?

There is a WoB that they became more polarized due to Investing in the same planet and/or their conflict.

Another WoB says not all Shards are paired.

Dawnshard implies that Shards group into quartets instead.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:04 AM, mdross81 said:

With Virtuosity and Invention now known to be Shards, this line jumped out at me in a new way, and seems like it could be some additional support for the idea of Wisdom, or as Hoid puts it here "great intellect," as a Shard.

Asked Brandon about this during the spoiler stream and his reaction was all but confirmation! Didn't even let the question get past the first sentence ("In Way of Kings, Hoid's monologue talks about three great talents: invention, artistry, and intellect.") before saying he knew where it was headed and whoever made that observation should pat themselves on the back because they're very smart, lol. (I think you're the first person I saw suggest the theory, going off search results by date.)

[+mdross81]

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Asked Brandon about this during the spoiler stream and his reaction was all but confirmation! Didn't even let the question get past the first sentence ("In Way of Kings, Hoid's monologue talks about three great talents: invention, artistry, and intellect.") before saying he knew where it was headed and whoever made that observation should pat themselves on the back because they're very smart, lol. (I think you're the first person I saw suggest the theory, going off search results by date.)

Yeah, I was watching the stream. That’s a nice WoB via avoidance you got there @LewsTherinTelescope 

I was even hanging around in Discord last night after the stream and saw you mention you’d seen something about this excerpt in the forums. But I had totally forgotten that I had even written this post.

Thanks for the shout out though.

[Adonalsium's Eigenbasis]

And I think we even may have the genders of the Vessels of Virtuosity (female), Invention (female), and [Intellect] (male), also due to the same chapter.

[Hessi's Ward]

While I am getting around to the idea of Prudence/Intellect as the final Shard, I will stick with my classic headcanon of Remembrance. It's related to the mind, can be related to anguish (because my take on the Intent is influenced by Weiry's idea of a Nienna-style Shard of divine grief), has a more passive and contemplative vibe which can translate into hiding and surviving because of remembering what has happened to the other Shards and the rest of the cosmere, and I love hitching this to other theories (mainly what the One is). I will be shocked if this becomes canon but I hold Remembrance dear to my heart.

[KelsierFortnite]

Guys I think it might be Calamity