Mid-Range Game 57: Helvegen

[Mat he/him]

32 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

The problem is I'm not sold on you being village after tunneling me for so long, so every proposal you make inherently makes me want to do the opposite xD

e!me doesn't reevaluate here, however bad I'd feel about it :P. e!me gets you exed and moves on from there. But idk.

It's just- like the same thing with xino at the end of the turn, the willingness to just die. I get that from you, and I don't see why an elim votes Orlok. Like- I know that you're someone who's skilled with words, the AG taught me that, and I desperately don't want to fall victim to it, but

Like

Gah

The spec doc will have words about this one way or another

The Unknown Novel

Absolutely no guarantee this stays

@Orlok Tsubodai please come help ;-;

Edit:

Aman

No

What

Edited April 4, 2022 by Matrim's Dice
aaaaaa indecision aaaaaaa

[Amanuensis he/him]

Anyone else getting flipless MR56 vibes rn? I feel like I'm going crazy

@Kasimir I hope you're entertained >:(

[Kasimir he/him]

39 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Anyone else getting flipless MR56 vibes rn? I feel like I'm going crazy

@Kasimir I hope you're entertained >:(

I can assure you, hand on heart, that not only am I not entertained, but the cries of suffering players in GM PMs has made me:

A. Regret running this game
B. Regret my inability to do more for them
C. Regret my life decisions and choices
D. Just regret

I'm not that much of a sadist, sir >>

[Amanuensis he/him]

RIP Kas and other suffering players

Please keep your head warm ThreadGMBro

ED1T:

@|TJ| If you're Village like I hope, what do you think? Join Mat on TUN or me? Join JNV on Mat? Join me on Orlok? Orlok/TUN/Mat are my PoE atm so they are the only players I'm willing to vote today, fullstop. Otherwise, I'm content to bow out and let y'all figure out this mess in C6. The sweet release of death sounds really nice rn  but I'd still prefer a Village victory

Edited April 4, 2022 by Amanuensis

[JNV]

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

In the off chance that literally everyone who has posted today is village, I'm willing to vote Orlok instead. I still think he could have bussed Bort and nothing he's done since then has led me to believe otherwise.

.... so ok see this exact behaviro is why I was reading Matrim as village this sort of 'I dont even know anymor eguys what are we even doing' mentality but then again they did go back on you so maybe it was feigned but man it feels similar to this I dont know I dont know I dont know and I cant be on tomorrow and if Im on the wrong person we lose and all I really want i sto go back to TJ honestly 

But the only two elim world that exists in my conceviable world involves The Unknown Novel so in a village The Unknown Novel world its theoretically not at the pure 50 50 point gaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh I dont know anything anymore

Tentatively and I mean tentatively moving to The Unknown Novel and in an emergency I could probably steal a friends hotspot to get online hopefully (grr school wifi) so @Matrim's Dice Im suddenly thoroughly convinced of your villageness Amanuensis Ive always been convinced of your villageness you wanna move back to The Unknown Novel? its the only duo I can conceive at this point in time unless its someone and Orlok in which case no ones really going to bite and Id rather go out swinging than screaming into the void come on 

Please.

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, JNV said:

@Matrim's Dice Im suddenly thoroughly convinced of your villageness Amanuensis Ive always been convinced of your villageness you wanna move back to The Unknown Novel? its the only duo I can conceive at this point in time unless its someone and Orlok in which case no ones really going to bite and Id rather go out swinging than screaming into the void come on 

Not... particularly. I moved to TUN for about twenty seconds but immediately felt uneasy about it so I just am going to trust my gut and accept whatever Aman flips. I somehow wouldn't be surprised in the slightest with either flip. I'd probably be relieved with either.

For me the only possible teams are

• Aman/JNV
• TJ/TUN

And there's no overlap so here we are. I know that because of the unspoken rule of SE it's probably neither of those but it's all I got. I suppose JNV/TJ also is a possibility?

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

And there's no overlap so here we are. I know that because of the unspoken rule of SE it's probably neither of those but it's all I got. I suppose JNV/TJ also is a possibility?

At this juncture, would all of you feel psychologically reassured if I proactively clarified there are still Elims in the game and I haven't actually made a mistake and left the game to run without thinking?

Edited to add: Specifically, that there is at least one Elim still in the game, existing.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Kasimir

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

At this juncture, would all of you feel psychologically reassured if I proactively clarified there are still Elims in the game and I haven't actually made a mistake and left the game to run without thinking?

Edited to add: Specifically, that there is at least one Elim still in the game, existing.

I mean, I'll take that, but that worry never crossed my mind.

Thanks anyway

[Amanuensis he/him]

TUN

I'm basically right back to where I was yesterday

Mat/TJ probably Village based on how indecisive they're being (elim would have no reason to fake this unless they are solo). So even if one of them is tricking me rn, my death doesn't even matter because Village can still win C6 or C7. Will say if they're both Village then I reserve the right to make fun of them for nearly voting out v!Aman with zero elim influence

TUN has acknowledged things that make me village but has also hedged by vaguely saying I've done "elimmy" things which at this point I have to believe is an elim going with the most convenient narrative that doesn't get him voted out today (riding off v!Mat and v!TJ nearly voting me out yesterday)

I still think Orlok could be a semi-active busser, but I just realized he might get filter killed anyway. If he does post by the end of today and lives until C6, please do not clear him just for leading the votes on Bort. I seriously felt that entire push was off and Orlok being an elim could explain a lot of the confusion we're experiencing rn.

JNV lock town no one can change my mind otherwise >:(

Edited April 4, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Mat he/him]

Doing some backreading and it's making me unsure again.

I started ISOing JNV and like... it reminded me why they were far up in my village tier.
But then I got to C3 when Bort was up, and TJ votes xino over Bort. But that matches with his reads as far back as early C2.
Would e!TJ be so bold to put Bort in his top village tier? 
In C2 JNV voted TJ, so they're not teamed.
What I need is to find decent evidence that JNV and Aman aren't teamed or that TUN and TJ aren't teamed.
A Bort read list from C2 had TJ/JNV in light vil and TUN/Aman as null so that's not helpful.
A possible explanation for the Archer kill could be his Bort/TJ e/e theory that he mentioned several times in C2.
Man just looking at the VCs from D1 again do imply an e!TJ hmm
JNV has always always strong v!read Aman I feel like... feel like elims wouldn't be that bold but TJ did the same thing. But Aman/JNV have thread discussions that don't seem e/e to me at all.
Aman mentioned just now about how TJ's prob village because of indecisiveness unless he's a solo elim, teamed with TUN is essentially the same thing as a solo elim until just a few hours ago and that's since TJ last was here

Blood and bloody ashes what am I doing

At least this game makes WoT curses thematically appropriate xD

TJ

@Amanuensis I know you said you don't want to vote TJ but imo the only partner TUN could have is TJ and I'd rather exe the more active elim if that's the team. What team comps do you think are possible, can you make a list like I did?

Edited April 4, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Amanuensis he/him]

33 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Doing some backreading and it's making me unsure again.

I started ISOing JNV and like... it reminded me why they were far up in my village tier.
But then I got to C3 when Bort was up, and TJ votes xino over Bort. But that matches with his reads as far back as early C2.
Would e!TJ be so bold to put Bort in his top village tier? 
In C2 JNV voted TJ, so they're not teamed.
What I need is to find decent evidence that JNV and Aman aren't teamed or that TUN and TJ aren't teamed.
A Bort read list from C2 had TJ/JNV in light vil and TUN/Aman as null so that's not helpful.
A possible explanation for the Archer kill could be his Bort/TJ e/e theory that he mentioned several times in C2.
Man just looking at the VCs from D1 again do imply an e!TJ hmm
JNV has always always strong v!read Aman I feel like... feel like elims wouldn't be that bold but TJ did the same thing. But Aman/JNV have thread discussions that don't seem e/e to me at all.
Aman mentioned just now about how TJ's prob village because of indecisiveness unless he's a solo elim, teamed with TUN is essentially the same thing as a solo elim until just a few hours ago and that's since TJ last was here

Blood and bloody ashes what am I doing

At least this game makes WoT curses thematically appropriate xD

TJ

@Amanuensis I know you said you don't want to vote TJ but imo the only partner TUN could have is TJ and I'd rather exe the more active elim if that's the team. What team comps do you think are possible, can you make a list like I did?

My last team list was:

13 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Mat
TUN
Mat/TUN
Orlok
Mat/Orlok
TUN/Orlok

So assuming v!Mat, e!TJ world, I would just need to swap out your names to make:

TJ
TUN
TJ/TUN
Orlok
TJ/Orlok
TUN/Orlok

Which again just brings me back to my first post today where I voted TJ to begin with 

E!Orlok feels like a hail mary, do-or-die kind of reality at this point where somehow we're all village or his partner is writing him off for the Bort bus. I can definitely see Orlok paired with both TJ and TUN (neither have ever voted Orlok) and less so with you for voting Orlok with Stick on C3 (though you are writing him off for the Bort bus :P)

So unless the pair is TJ/TUN, our best chance is voting right between TJ and TUN. Orlok may get filter killed anyway so if the game doesn't straight up end, then we'd know the other has to be an elim whether we are right or wrong.

I will say, I feel TJ has more Village credence than TUN at this juncture, given the fact TJ completely stayed away from the Bort yeet (while TUN could do nothing to save both Araris and Bort due to inactivity). So right now, I do prefer voting TUN first between the two of them, but have no good reason to believe either is Village enough to not believe it's both of them.

I also want to point out the irony that when JNV was voting TJ you weren't on board, but now that JNV is voting TUN you're voting TJ  I have to assume that means you're a Villager reevaluating and panicking like me but today's voting feels like some kind of complicated riverdance and Kasimir's not-writeup seems suddenly prophetic xD

ED1T:

(2) Amanuensis: |TJ|, The Unknown Novel, 
(2) The Unknown Novel: JNV, Amanuensis,
(1) |TJ|: Matrim's Dice,

@Matrim's Dice the biggest problem rn is that Orlok is inactive and JNV has said they might not be able to get on before EoD. I also might not be online at EoD given my current schedule, so we kind of need to consolidate our votes. I will definitely try, but I can't make any promises given IRL circumstances, so basically... I can be convinced to switch to TJ, but without Orlok voting or a guarantee of JNV being able to get on and vote TJ too, this will result in another random execution. And it does appear that TJ/TUN are voting together on me, which probably suggests they are indeed paired, and therefore it doesn't matter which one we vote first.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Mat he/him]

17 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

E!Orlok feels like a hail mary, do-or-die kind of reality at this point

This is how every vote feels to me though xD

18 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

(though you are writing him off for the Bort bus :P)

More for D1, tbh. The Bort thing works but recent QF so /shrug. Why call it a bus? The last person to do something like that was Bort :eyes:

21 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I will say, I feel TJ has more Village credence than TUN at this juncture, given the fact TJ completely stayed away from the Bort yeet (while TUN could do nothing to save both Araris and Bort due to inactivity). So right now, I do prefer voting TUN first between the two of them, but have no good reason to believe either is Village enough to not believe it's both of them.

Completely staying away was a point against TJ, I thought. Because he could have done something to stop it. But sure. TUN

I'm voting alongside you now, hooray :D. My past self is smhing at me but what do you do. The elims are playing fantastically.

23 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I also want to point out the irony that when JNV was voting TJ you weren't on board, but now that JNV is voting TUN you're voting TJ  I have to assume that means you're a Villager reevaluating and panicking like me but today's voting feels like some kind of complicated riverdance and Kasimir's not-writeup seems suddenly prophetic xD

I'm aware, yeah >> That's exactly what it feels like.

No now I just went back to pg 1 to see how TJ treated TUA and I remembered that pg 1 Aman reads elim to me and pg 1 TJ reads village to me, then pg 2-3 Aman reads village to me. It's like there's a shift there, like Aman realized that he needed to shift tones to draw away my attention. Agh. Or maybe it's just I was reading Aman wrong all along.

TUN

Seriously considering just flipping a coin between TUN and Aman here

I'll vote... later. Later.

But I guess TUN doesn't have to be with TJ. But Orlok.... hmm

I'm gonna sleep on it. Read some WoT, maybe that will subconsciously tell me the answer.

[JNV]

32 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

@Matrim's Dice the biggest problem rn is that Orlok is inactive and JNV has said they might not be able to get on before EoD. I also might not be online at EoD given my current schedule, so we kind of need to consolidate our votes. I will definitely try, but I can't make any promises given IRL circumstances, so basically... I can be convinced to switch to TJ, but without Orlok voting or a guarantee of JNV being able to get on and vote TJ too, this will result in another random execution. And it does appear that TJ/TUN are voting together on me, which probably suggests they are indeed paired, and therefore it doesn't matter which one we vote first.

Ok hi hi hi I should have gotten offline an hour ago but I am sneaky so Im here hi hi hi also a bit hyper but we can do this we can vote off TJ finally praise be I am so happy right now big smile 

All the doom and gloom is gone we die on our feet not on our knees and best of all we die together Amanuensis we can do this we can Im so happy right now vote vote vote

EDIT: Matrim you stole all my joy like some sort of... i dont even know please go back on TJ?

EDIT2: Or I could move I guess which do you prefer

Edited April 4, 2022 by JNV

[Mat he/him]

37 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

@Matrim's Dice the biggest problem rn is that Orlok is inactive and JNV has said they might not be able to get on before EoD. I also might not be online at EoD given my current schedule, so we kind of need to consolidate our votes. I will definitely try, but I can't make any promises given IRL circumstances, so basically... I can be convinced to switch to TJ, but without Orlok voting or a guarantee of JNV being able to get on and vote TJ too, this will result in another random execution. And it does appear that TJ/TUN are voting together on me, which probably suggests they are indeed paired, and therefore it doesn't matter which one we vote first.

 

5 minutes ago, JNV said:

Ok hi hi hi I should have gotten offline an hour ago but I am sneaky so Im here hi hi hi also a bit hyper but we can do this we can vote off TJ finally praise be I am so happy right now big smile 

Wait I was just about to say that I'd either vote TUN or Aman. Now I don't want to vote TJ because I liked his opening this turn

Back back go back to TUN xD

Aman, I am going to sleep on it but I will vote either you or TUN by EoD, I'm sure that makes you rest easy :P. The cop-out for me would be letting it be RNGd but that not only lets the elims potentially hammer (which would be... weird) but I feel like I just need to take responsibility and choose someone, so I will.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Kasimir he/him]

FYI I'm not gonna count any votes until the cycle closes.

No.

Just no.

I'm not that kayana.

It will only be logged in the spreadsheet after that holy chull what is this volatility.

[JNV]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Back back go back to TUN xD

 

Oh ok sorry sorry The Unknown Novel you ar ea ninja here is your shuikin and your katana and your cool black outfit go strike terror into the hearts of men 

And maybe some RP now in the late night Im about to pass out so

 

Kai was involved now. There was no escaping it. Not when they were drunk and trying to hug the people at the table. Even if they died tomorrow, even if everyone died tomorrow, they had tonight. And it was a glorious night.

[Amanuensis he/him]

13 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

More for D1, tbh. The Bort thing works but recent QF so /shrug. Why call it a bus? The last person to do something like that was Bort :eyes:

Because in that sentence I'm referring to a partner writing off E!Orlok for voting E!Bort, hence a bus

8 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Wait I was just about to say that I'd either vote TUN or Aman. Now I don't want to vote TJ because I liked his opening this turn

Back back go back to TUN xD

Aman, I am going to sleep on it but I will vote either you or TUN by EoD, I'm sure that makes you rest easy :P. The cop-out for me would be letting it be RNGd but that not only lets the elims potentially hammer (which would be... weird) but I feel like I just need to take responsibility and choose someone, so I will.

Honestly just sleep on it and follow your heart tomorrow. If you vote me then I won't hold it against you (unless you are the elim and you're toying with me, in which case I will never let you fool me again :P).

But tbh, perfectly fine with a coin flip, if you don't feel comfortable making the decision yourself. Game shouldn't end when I die so I just hope that whatever Villagers survive into C6 make the right call going forward.

I have the utmost faith in our ability to solve. And I hope my death can be a testament to my stance on how paranoia ultimately hurts the village more than it does the elims.

ED1T:

(2) Amanuensis: |TJ|, The Unknown Novel, 
(2) The Unknown Novel: JNV, Amanuensis,
(1) Sleep: Matrim's Dice, 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Honestly just sleep on it and follow your heart tomorrow. If you vote me then I won't hold it against you (unless you are the elim and you're toying with me, in which case I will never let you fool me again :P).

Nah my heart just says right now that we're all villagers

The Unknown Novel

If you're elim you deserve to win this for turning my tunnel around, and if you're village I thank you for doing that... idk who your teammate would be anymore but no one knows anything :D. I am comforted by the reality that there will be another cycle and that there is theoretically a Veteran (or two? dare I hope... ) lurking around. Maybe we'll get lucky and the elims will hit em today.

I don't exactly have faith in our ability to solve, but the three of us did somehow all end up on the same train which is kind of a miracle xD

8 minutes ago, JNV said:

Oh ok sorry sorry The Unknown Novel you ar ea ninja here is your shuikin and your katana and your cool black outfit go strike terror into the hearts of men 

Gosh I love this community xD

[Amanuensis he/him]

I am content with this turn of events

Knowing me tho I'll start panicking about e!Mat again in the middle of the night once the euphoria of no longer being tunneled vanishes 

Or I'm going to start questioning how easily e!JNV has pocketed me (I've been pocketed in two MU games very recently and you'd think I'd have learned by now)

But nah, TUN/TJ both voting me now fits as a team with how C4 played out. TJ said he would be down to vote TUN (for distancing) but instead went for Xino, then went for me (when it seemed like there was a good opportunity to get rid of me).

Plus TJ still hasn't voted TUN today while saying TUN is in his PoE so...

I have to trust my gut when I say this feels right.

ED1T:

17 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Gosh I love this community xD

Also, same

Edited April 4, 2022 by Amanuensis

[|TJ| he/him]

17 hours ago, Kasimir said:

The hell you smoking, my bro???? >:(

The last two games don't exactly count because they were basically vanillas :P. 

7 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

@|TJ| If you're Village like I hope, what do you think? Join Mat on TUN or me? Join JNV on Mat? Join me on Orlok? Orlok/TUN/Mat are my PoE atm so they are the only players I'm willing to vote today, fullstop. Otherwise, I'm content to bow out and let y'all figure out this mess in C6. The sweet release of death sounds really nice rn  but I'd still prefer a Village victory

bro I swear each post I read I'm changing my mind, so sit in a corner and cry out of indecisiveness maybe? >>

5 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

TJ

@Amanuensis I know you said you don't want to vote TJ but imo the only partner TUN could have is TJ and I'd rather exe the more active elim if that's the team. What team comps do you think are possible, can you make a list like I did?

bro I'm telling you, give me one good reason for me to park on xino if I was elim. Look at it this way so that it's clear. It's 3-2 Bort to Orlok. Elim!me has only two logical actions - just two. Vote on Bort to bus him and gain village cred (as seen from LG83, I believe this is the move I'd choose if I was evil) OR vote on Orlok in an attempt to protect Bort (this works irrespective of the possibility of e!Orlok because if it was a tie and e!Orlok was chosen to die, I'd get village cred here too). There is no logic in e!me voting for Xino at all - because it doesn't give elim!me village cred nor does it give me a chance to save an elim teammate. 

4 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

But nah, TUN/TJ both voting me now fits as a team with how C4 played out. TJ said he would be down to vote TUN (for distancing) but instead went for Xino, then went for me (when it seemed like there was a good opportunity to get rid of me).

Plus TJ still hasn't voted TUN today while saying TUN is in his PoE so...

Bro, you were the one who said TUN was not aware of game-state enough to kill Thaidakar, so he cannot be a solo elim. And when he's removed from 3-member team possibilities, the overall probability of him being evil decreases. Sigh, this looks like Aman is bussing TUN and then positing TUN/me team to ML me next, so I'm comfortable with my vote. Contrary to what you say, Aman, I really don't mind TUN dying, but I think you've been more suspicious than him this cycle. 

Possibilities if we eliminate TUN - 
4-member team, v!inactive-killed!Orlok, v!eliminated!TUN - We lose after this cycle
e!Veteran, 3-member team, v!inactive-killed!Orlok, v!eliminated!TUN - 2/1 after C5, 1/1 after C6 only if eliminated correctly, 50-50 win chance at the EoC7
4-member team, v!inactive-killed!Orlok, e!eliminated!TUN - 2/1 after C5, need to eliminate accurately in C6 to win
3-member team, v!inactive-killed!Orlok, e!eliminated!Veteran!TUN - 3/1 after C5, vote TUN again to win

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Posting to blatantly filter dodge, and to offer sincere, and self-loathing apologies at my inactivity. There’s a lot going on for me at the moment, and I thought I had a handle on it, but don’t. I’m going to try to get back into this today, before rollover, but if not then will just continue trying.

I’m going to take another break from games after this, until my life is in different place.

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Posting to blatantly filter dodge, and to offer sincere, and self-loathing apologies at my inactivity. There’s a lot going on for me at the moment, and I thought I had a handle on it, but don’t. I’m going to try to get back into this today, before rollover, but if not then will just continue trying.

I’m going to take another break from games after this, until my life is in different place.

THESE WORDS ARE ACCEPTED.

Take care of yourself first, bro. That's the most important.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Posting to blatantly filter dodge, and to offer sincere, and self-loathing apologies at my inactivity. There’s a lot going on for me at the moment, and I thought I had a handle on it, but don’t. I’m going to try to get back into this today, before rollover, but if not then will just continue trying.

I’m going to take another break from games after this, until my life is in different place.

Plz do not beat yourself up friend, inactivity happens to the best of us, especially when RL is calling =/ no need to self-loathe. Just focus on what's important and game with us when you feel up to it

Though I will say I was kinda looking forward to my poe narrowing with you getting filter killed xD I still think you could be an elim and was a lil eager to see if I was right without having to vote you haha

Anyway I nap now, if I die gl village

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

Though I will say I was kinda looking forward to my poe narrowing with you getting filter killed xD I still think you could be an elim and was a lil eager to see if I was right without having to vote you haha

I, for one, am fine with having the game be a sure continue :P.

v!TUN + elim kill + v!Orlok filter = game over

[Amanuensis he/him]

But what if E!Orlok tho think of the plot twist!

ED1T:

Logically you are very right but I'm still uncertain about everything, nothing makes sense except someone is doing really well to blend in

Edited April 4, 2022 by Amanuensis