Dawn of a New Era

[old man moomba]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

Great. That lines up pretty well. I'm curious as to why defense is with the House. Not that I have a particular reason it should be otherwise, but curious. Explain?

I dunno, it was something along the lines of the great guilds teaming up on one other or the smaller guilds. 

[Furamirionind]

4 minutes ago, Sorana said:

Sorry, I miss a lot of pages while asleep, which I will be soon...

I simply feel like this is getting so complicated, that while we are trying to reduce how complicated the guilds are, we are creating the same here again.

I'm not opposed against the idea in general, don't get me wrong. I just wonder how to really pull this off in rp, without everybody loosing interest pretty soon.

That is a good point to bring up.  I kind of made the assumption that if guilds had objectives, they would want to manipulate other guilds through this.  However, if it does take too much effort, you are right about them abandoning it.

I am still quite interested to hear Palindrome's idea, hopefully it is simple(ish) : )  

12 minutes ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

Great. That lines up pretty well. I'm curious as to why defense is with the House. Not that I have a particular reason it should be otherwise, but curious. Explain?

It would make sense to me as the smaller guilds would have fewer armies, if armies at all. it would balance out against the great guilds with armies.

Right now this is all brainstorming, so naturally, we will probably want to simplify any ideas that are getting complicated.  I think [Redacted]'s idea is probably as complicated as we should make it... At least to begin with.  If we IC make it more complicated, that should be fine, because it means we will generally be okay with it.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Furamirionind

[MetaTerminal]

I think while complex governmental ideas are fun, we should really try to decrease the level of complexity - simply having it so each great guild has a representative and all the representatives vote on laws can still provide a lot of interesting opportunities, without drowning out people with complex rule systems. We can have a more complex government be canon to the RP, but have it so that it’s not necessary to understand to get involved in the politics.

[Darth Woodrack]

Again, I made a whole list of laws, just so everyone knows. They're right here.

[Mraize]

Is there a curfew?

[Darth Woodrack]

No. Those only exist in militarian states, and when a city is under attack.

[Archer]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Cited said:

I think while complex governmental ideas are fun, we should really try to decrease the level of complexity - simply having it so each great guild has a representative and all the representatives vote on laws can still provide a lot of interesting opportunities, without drowning out people with complex rule systems. We can have a more complex government be canon to the RP, but have it so that it’s not necessary to understand to get involved in the politics.

Seconded. The more complex the system is, the more that can go wrong. It also takes more time to run, which detracts from other RP. 

[Darth Woodrack]

Yeah. Guilds vote, we have laws, the laws are enforced, Great guilds have more votes, one chancellor to operate as a scapegoat public representative. 

[+Sorana]

Basic laws. Nothing too complicated. I'd prefer to keep it to those, a typical good character would keep normally.

[old man moomba]

Yes, but every republic needs checks and balances to keep everything heading the right way.

[+Sorana]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Dapper said:

Yes, but every republic needs checks and balances to keep everything heading the right way.

Sure.

Like I said basic laws. Not no laws. Easy enough to understand and fow new people to get into the system easily. What @Darth Woodrackhas isn't too far off. But I need to think about that when I'm not tired. Apart from that good night

[Ataraxian Wist]

Sorry this took so long. I'm on mobile,  but that's small compared to the fact that I was trying tri write it like a constitution, rather than a simple explanation. Here's the easy one, taken largely from what we've seen here:

 

1. Each Great Guild (defined as we determine) has one seat in the Senate of Alleyversial Republic.

2. For each Great House seat there is one Minor House seat in the same Senate. These "popular" seats are filled by popular vote, not Senatorial appointment.

3. There is also one "public" seat, to which any citizen can be elected by true majority. Candidacy is reduced by a process of elimination until one candidate had more than half of all votes. Yes, this is important.

4. The Chancellor is appointed from and by the Senate.

5. Laws and decisions are made by majority rule of the Senate.

6. Ties are broken by the Chancellor's intervention, but the Chancellor gets no other vote.

7. The Senate can impeach the Chancellor by a supermajority (⅔)decision, and if convicted of felony or high crime, Chancellor is removed from office and punished by law.

8. Senators may be impeached by the decision of all other senators, and are likewise tried in a court of law. If convicted of a felony or high crime, they are removed from office and punished by law.

9. In the temporary absence of a Chancellor, ties are broken by popular vote.

10. In the temporary absence of a senator, the Chancellor votes in their place.

11. If war has been declared on the Allyversial Republic, the Chancellor and Senate may jointly declare a military state, in which only temporary laws may be enacted and all power is vested in the Chancellor.

 

That's it. The number of seats available to Minor Guilds keeps them from getting trampled out of principle, while the identity of the public senator can force the Senate's hand when selecting a Chancellor, though they aren't necessarily the Chancellor themself. The popular tie-breaking ensures that the Senate will think twice before impeaching the Chancellor. What do you think?

[old man moomba]

I assume by the "Senate" you mean the entire congress, or what we've been refering to as the Senate and the House together. I also assume the "Major House" is the Great Guild assembly,  and the "Minor House" is the other one.

(Or I'm complely wrong.)

It looks good, although we could change the assembly names.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Dr. Dapper

[Ataraxian Wist]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Dapper said:

I assume by the "Senate" you mean the entire congress, or what we've been refering to as the Senate and the House together. I also assume the "Major House" is the Great Guild assembly,  and the "Minor House" is the other one.

(Or I'm complely wrong.)

It looks good, although we could change the assembly names.

 

I was actually putting them all in one governing body. It simplifies things, and the other provisions are made to account for the imbalances it would otherwise entail. In other words, Minor Guild senators are still part of the same senate.

Supposing there are four Great Guilds, this means there are also four seats available to Minor Guilds, and one available to anyone.

[old man moomba]

I see

[+Ark1002]

Ahem. I would like to announce that I'm running for president.

[Furamirionind]

38 minutes ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

I was actually putting them all in one governing body. It simplifies things, and the other provisions are made to account for the imbalances it would otherwise entail. In other words, Minor Guild senators are still part of the same senate.

Supposing there are four Great Guilds, this means there are also four seats available to Minor Guilds, and one available to anyone.

I am really fond of what you suggest. In general, I think you keep the important points that [redacted] had, but also simplify it by merging the the entire Congress together.  With 11 statements, it looks a bit complicated, but it really isnt.  My only issue with it is that all the chancellor does is tie breaks pretty much. But I don't see that as something that would need to be changed now. Instead I would prefer it to be changed in-world, by the first governing body.  I really like what you have.

7 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:

Ahem. I would like to announce that I'm running for president.

well, in the current proposed model, there is no president : P (and also you would already have to be a legislature to run for chancellor/president in this model (which I like)).

...also I want to make it known that I declared myself running for Gov before Ark did... I just posted it in a guild PM... (that Ark is also in... :P) (I am already preparing my campaign in my head...)

Ark, you have any ideas or issues you see with Palindromes model?

Edited December 15, 2018 by Furamirionind

[+Ark1002]

No, I rather liked it.

Still running for Prez

[Vargo Seldon]

Wow guys.  I really need to update myself on this page more often.  Really ran away from me...  Anywho, I like Palindrome's idea, so lets just stick with that, and make sure to keep me out of government because I don't think I would get anything done.

[Archer]

31 minutes ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

Supposing there are four Great Guilds, this means there are also four seats available to Minor Guilds, and one available to anyone.

I'm predicting there will only be four Great Guilds, but the system should be able to accommodate more. It depends whether the wild cards will band together to form a few large guilds, or remain divided over multiple smaller guilds. For reference, here's back-of-a-napkin vote counting. 

Affiliation Predictions:

Ghostbloods: Meeker, Itiah, Kaladin78, Sorana, Shardbreaker

TUBA: Silva, Xino, Karn, SD, Clyde

The Dark Alley: Mac, Kenod, Voidus, Snipexe, TFA

GUESS: Gancho, Dwig, Jac, Life&Death, Wild Card

Sentinels: Bit

Precursors: Darth, Ark

Wild Cards: Nohadon, Kidpen, Ax, Steel Inquisitive, GK, Meta, Fura, Spacefarring, Grumpy Elantrian.

It's a safe bet that the big three guilds will manage to get GG status. Right now, GUESS is the one I have pegged to take the fourth slot, but another guild made up of mostly the same members may take its place. It could just as easily end up being the Sentinels etc. 

[+Ark1002]

*Raises hand*

I'm not in precursors, though Ink and Clyde are!

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ark1002

[Furamirionind]

5 minutes ago, Ookla the Paragon said:

I'm predicting there will only be four Great Guilds, but the system should be able to accommodate more. It depends whether the wild cards will band together to form a few large guilds, or remain divided over multiple smaller guilds. For reference, here's back-of-a-napkin vote counting. 

Affiliation Predictions:

Ghostbloods: Meeker, Itiah, Kaladin78, Sorana, Shardbreaker

TUBA: Silva, Xino, Karn, SD, Clyde

The Dark Alley: Mac, Kenod, Voidus, Snipexe, TFA

GUESS: Gancho, Dwig, Jac, Life&Death, Wild Card

Sentinels: Bit

Precursors: Darth, Ark

Wild Cards: Nohadon, Kidpen, Ax, Steel Inquisitive, GK, Meta, Fura, Spacefarring, Grumpy Elantrian.

It's a safe bet that the big three guilds will manage to get GG status. Right now, GUESS is the one I have pegged to take the fourth slot, but another guild made up of mostly the same members may take its place. It could just as easily end up being the Sentinels etc. 

I have only heard from Voidus and Mac on the idea so far, but the thought was that the DA wouldn't get a rep in the government.  So if members of the DA wish to participate in the gov, they would be asked to be a rep for a differant guild.

Dont know how this would work, and we would need to hear from other DA members as well.

[Archer]

5 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:

*Raises hand*

I'm not in precursors, though Ink and Clyde are!

I'm still predicting that Darth will convince you to count yourself as one of them anyway, to give the Precursors legitimacy. Ink probably won't be active enough in the RP to count, and I'm guessing Clyde will go elsewhere. 

2 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I have only heard from Voidus and Mac on the idea so far, but the thought was that the DA wouldn't get a rep in the government.  So if members of the DA wish to participate in the gov, they would be asked to be a rep for a differant guild.

Dont know how this would work, and we would need to hear from other DA members as well.

Good to know. Updated Affiliation Predictions:

Ghostbloods: Meeker, Itiah, Kaladin78, Sorana, Shardbreaker, TFA

TUBA: Silva, Xino, Karn, SD, Clyde

GUESS: Gancho, Dwig, Jac, Life&Death, Wild Card.

Sentinels: Bit

Precursors: Darth, Ark

Wild Cards: Nohadon, Kidpen, Ax, Steel Inquisitive, Mac, Kenod, Snipexe, GK, Meta, Fura, Spacefarring, Grumpy Elantrian.

[+Ark1002]

Sorry, but no. I'm not going to be affiliated. I'm a loyal GB.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ark1002

[MetaTerminal]

I’d actually encourage the non-affiliated to join new guilds, mainly in order to add guilds beyond the big three. Just limiting it to three wouldn’t be unfortunate, but it does limit things somewhat.

EDIT: Are the Ghostbloods and GUESS still being separated even though the acquisition is contentious? As the Ghostbloods belong to the DA, should they be allowed to be involved? (I think they should be, but it would mean a subclause in the rulebooks.)

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ookla the Cited