18th Shard

Personally, I kind of doubt duralumin would actually inherit those properties - it seems to be more of a Realmatic thing determined by the Identity of something as aluminum, and so like gemstones of the wrong color, duralumin wouldn't work even those it is very close physically to aluminum.

"Of course it is fantastic. I kept this orchard growing in a time bubble for almost two millennia to selectively breed the trees to maximize taste. Some of the species are native to Roshar, and are therefore quite difficult to help adjust to a different climate - it took centuries before they would grow in soil. It's a taste of home for me. You don't have to climb the trees - I was just noting the best fruit is generally up top." He gestured at one of the statues, which began to collect some of the limafruit from a nearby tree. "The room is large enough I imagine you could do whatever practice or training routine you want. I've never really done that portion of an experiment before without copperminds, so I am not entirely sure how to start in this case. Generally, I believe, developing muscle memory and a general familiarity with one's weapons are among the first steps, but I'm no combat master - it's messy stuff, getting in a fight. I prefer to simply avoid all of that if possible, leave that to those who enjoy being expendable or maimed. I prefer the nice, calm control room. Overwhelming force is a response far more my forte." Xanas made some notes on the fruit's taste - it seemed as if the gardeners had forgotten to prune appropriately to maximize exposure to the artificial sunlight - which meant an uneven ripening on this particular harvest. What am I still doing here? It's not like me to get so caught up in an experiment. Too many confounding variables if you don't use a double-blind experiment. Maybe I should give Mike some space to try out the motivators. Xanas couldn't deny a part of him wanted to leave it all behind, start over with a new experiment. But every time he considered it, he could feel a weight, a responsibility, that he couldn't escape anymore. Confronting his own mortality, being imprisoned in the Void, seemed to have done what all the philosophy and study of his past life hadn't been able to do: remind him of his own conscience. Storming morality. Can't even try to spike it out any more. Xanas had spent millennia trying to get over this - and he'd thought he had succeeded. He felt Tsarik's handle, remembering the oaths he'd sworn. "I will be guided by logic, not by emotion." Even after years compounded upon years, Xanas couldn't seem shake the chains of his emotions. @Sorana

I wouldn't bet on the Unmade in that contest - Nightblood has more raw investiture than they do.

To Sadeas, it's a question of option a: have thousands of arrows fired at trained soldiers with valuable gear, who have taken years to get to a level of proficiency, or b: have thousands of arrows fired at cheap slaves who nobody cares about and who are very replaceable. As for endurance, if you mean physical stamina, then bridgerunning itself is noted to be very toughening on each person. As for making the bridge crews more enduring, as in members of the crews die less and are replaced less, well, that's the whole point. If you still don't get Sadeas's logic, I'd suggest looking up the tvtropes page for cannon fodder.

I don't think its nitpicky at all to point out the difference between a common application given to the surge and the surge's name itself. It's a bit like calling Adhesion 'Atmospheric Pressure'. Technically true but also misses some aspects of what the Surge is. But I think the OP wasn't referencing the Surge at all when he used those terms. Rather, as he said, he is talking about the 'feel' or gestalt of the order, which isn't a Realmatic principle - its a subjective one determined by perspective. He's noting the attributes that most fanart would think to draw or the characteristics that give an order their aesthetic, not anything more complex then that. I think interpreting this chart as anything more than that is missing the point.

Xanas nodded. "I have honestly no idea how your gifting would work with those particular spikes, but previous experience has shown gifters to be able to gift other Hemalurgic abilities temporarily, so theoretically it should work. I wouldn't suggest trying to gift anything to me, however - in my current condition, I may destroy the ability gifted. I would certainly not receive the ability. To be entirely honest, that is why I suggested you contact your friend. Half of those motivators will be useless without someone to practice with." Xanas walked off the dais toward a tall, ornate set of doors inscribed with leafs. The doors opened into a large, forested room with a steel ceiling and fruit trees growing every few meters. A few armored statues stood guard, vines draping around their heads and wrapping around their arms. In their hands were sickles, hedge clippers, and other garden implements. Xanas gestured at the tools. "You could try practicing your other ability with these tools. The fruit near the top of the trees is particularly good." Xanas plucked a limafruit and a kathari from a bough in front of him and began eating. "Generally speaking, the more colorful ones are the most ripe." He bit into the kathari, sucking juice away from the incision before it dripped on his robes. White was suitably dramatic as a color, but one had to be quite careful if one wanted to keep it that way. @Sorana

Just a note, neither decay nor growth are surges (which means there isn't anything unusual for that row, as neither are freedom, laws, logic, or creativity). The surge names are division and progression.

I would say that regardless of the physical description of blue - which is not incredibly difficult in comparison to love or music - yes, you can note wavelength, energy level, pigmentation, common connotative associations with it, etc; however, to describe the color blue and demonstrate that my perception of it and your perception of it are the same is objectively impossible. It's the old "what if what I see as blue you would call green?' question, but since we associate 'blue' with the same physical phenomenon, the distinction is moot in normal life. Epistemologically, it is impossible to say everything can be scientifically and deterministically explained, as that claim is scientifically inverifiable. Similarly, it's impossible to say that observation can determine truth, because it relies upon axiomatic belief that our senses can be trusted. Likewise, we cannot prove that one perceives something identically with another as that requires us to trust at least one individual's capacity to perceive the results of any test. It is impractical to do anything without accepting such axioms, but they are fundamentally improvable. And I think it's those kind of 'lies' (our acceptance of these improvable axioms), the necessary 'lies' that we all live with, that Cryptics would find most 'delicious'.

Xanas looked at the daggers angled toward him. Mike slid the weapons back away when he recognized Xanas. Seemed like he was a little jumpy still. Xanas turned on the dais to face a small set of dials, and adjusted them. The room was a library of sports, a repository of genetic samples grown in small quantities. Xanas turned the first dial to Earth-Post Calamity, then continued to adjust the minor dials until the sample he wanted was selected. A small trained cremling pulled the small disks off the shelf and placed on the work table in front of the dais. Xanas selected a contact lens and a pair of thin gloves. The lens had a small hole over the pupil, and the gloves had slots on the back of each hand. Xanas placed the tissue sample disks into the motivators, adjusted the amperage, and handed them to Mike. "These came from James Coransen, an Epic who titled himself Expel-your-armus. He unfortunately was one of those who felt the movies were all that one needed to see and neglected both to read and to spell properly. His sole personal ability was to summon the last weapon he touched to his hands. He felt it was 'poetic' to kill people with their own weapons. A rival gang leader put an explosive in his own sword and detonated it when James stole the sword, killing him. The more interesting ability James had was as a gifter. He was able to share his power with others by sight, simply focusing on them visually. I'm interested to see how you do with these particular tools." Xanas set the adjusted motivators on the table closer to Mike. "Try them on."

Xanas nodded, then warped the Alley into a small library-like room, the two of them standing on a dais. He gestured at the windows. "You should have reception near those." He stepped down off of the dais toward a computer in a niche in the room. "When you reach my age, that question is often answered 'why not?'." He entered a passcode on the computer terminal, opening a word processor. After a moment, he spoke again. "I suppose, if the question is why help, then the answer would be that I truly do want this world to be a better place, to use science, not merely know it. Knowledge unused is merely intellectual dross. As for why you," he looked up at Mike, "then I my answer is: I find you intriguing. I think you would do far better with power than many who have it - they desire it. You don't, and so perhaps deserve it far more. But deep down, I suppose it is also because I like you. You remind me of myself as a young man in many ways - a bit rash, with a little bit of power, and in far over your head. But enough of my rambling, go call your friend." Xanas sat down at the computer. He began to type. Most of the Alleyverse would condemn him for what he was about to do. Even most Denizens would call it an unnecessary evil, but Xanas wasn't taking any chances that someone would destroy this experiment on a whim. His time as Head of the Department of Testing & Analysis had exposed him to things most sane people would avoid at all costs. Xanas wasn't sure if he had a soul left to be corrupted anymore, but he knew if anything had a chance of doing so, it was the being he was contacting now. He finished typing, reviewed his work, then selected the print option, printing three copies. The computer Soulcasted the pages onto the table in front of him. He folded them in half, slipping them into an envelope. It was always best to ensure these things were done in triplicate. He pricked a finger, dripping a few drops of ichor-alchohol onto the seal, then stamped the wax with a hot iron, sealing it shut. He opened a small Alleyway and stepped through several Alleys before walking into a white room with motivational poster on the wall. THE ONLY WAY TO GUARANTEE FAILURE IS TO NEVER TRY. IT IS HARD TO FALL, BUT MUCH HARDER TO HAVE NEVER TRIED. JOURNEY BEFORE DESTINATION: PLEASE ENSURE ALL POSTAGE STAMPS ARE THE CORRECT DENOMINATION. The walls seemed to scream at him with slogans and catchphrases. He stopped in front of the largest office. Xanas stopped in front of the secretary's desk. The eldritch abomination lowered it's glasses and held up a tentacle, gesturing at the phone. Xanas glanced around the room. A large poster read: HUMAN RESOURCES: WE AREN'T DOING OUR JOB UNTIL WE PROVE YOU AREN'T DOING YOURS. The secretary set the phone down. "Yes, how may I help you?" Xanas held out the letter. "Could you deliver this to the department head? I have ensured it complies with all official memorandum regulations." "Of course. Is there anything else you need today, sir?" "That will be all. There are directions on how to contact me within the memorandum, as per usual, but I am afraid I have a sizeable backlog of work, so it may be some time before I am able to respond adequately." Xanas nodded his thanks, then strode back to the portion of the room he had entered from. HR was picky about where you opened Alleys. Most Denizens didn't bother learning where to stand to open them, but the Testing & Analysis Department often received warranty complaints from HR that required testing or demonstration before HR could devour the plaintiff's soul. Those interactions meant Xanas was slightly more comfortable around HR than most Denizens. He wasn't sure, but Xanas suspected Cam had spontaneously came into existence as a corresponding anti-entity to those who argued with the disclaimer in the early days of the Alleys - at least, Cam was one of the few who had the whole thing memorized naturally, without copper of any kind. How Cam had managed to create an entire department was still a mystery. Xanas stepped back into the library, making sure to backtrack through several Alleys that were notoriously hard to traverse. No need to forget all caution. He though back on the contents of the letter. To: Cam Nosnetsroht, Head, Department of Human Resources, Dark Alley; Highprince of Pedantry; Filer of Forms; Requirer of Requisites; etc. Subject: Hemalurgic Experimentation Infractions Earlier today, a former experimental subject, #A-139115, given name Mike, was contacted by a member of the Dark Alley. Upon contact, the following infractions of general Dark Alley Hemalurgic standard practice were observed to have been committed by the original experimentors: 1. Addition of multiple Hemalurgic grafts without prior study of individual components; 2. Use of a minor as a subject without suitably identifying potential effects of maturation on subject; 3. Lack of appropriate sedation or stability spikes immediately following an operation, continuing until subject's stability has been judged adequate or subject has deceased. These compounded to result in an emotional and spiritual instability that may have resulted in lawsuits or insurance claims, were it not quickly resolved. The aforementioned situation has been remedied appropriately, but I am concerned that other similar situations will arise and will not be as quickly mitigated. I would like to request the HR department to identify any experiments undertaken by the same group of researchers and to monitor these experiments for additional infractions. If necessary, please interview those involved. Any questions or inquiries concerning the subject contacted today from persons beside myself should be forwarded to HR before answer is given. Thank you for your anticipated quick response. Signed: Xanas Khaevarin, Head, Department of Testing & Analysis, Dark Alley; Inventor of the Disclaimer; First Denizens, Member, Dark Alley; Censor of Hawaiian Pizza; etc. Postea Scripta: Due to my long absence from the Alleys, previous methods of contact will be ineffective. Please deposit any materials or responses for me in Alley 7i, which I will check as my schedule allows. All communications enclosed herein are covered by the Dark Alley disclaimer, and may not be copied or transmitted in any form with prior written consent. Any trespassing of the above disclaimer will subject one to full liability for all future consequences. Xanas turned off the computer, then breathed a sigh of relief. He felt a shiver run down his spine a moment later. It was rumored that that particular feeling originated whenever HR spoke one's name, though Xanas wasn't superstitious enough to believe such a thing. It was preposterous. He gathered the aluminum robe tighter around himself, and stepped back toward the dais where he had left Mike. @Sorana

To be fair, there are very few democratic systems in our world that existed prior to the printing press and the Renaissance - rapid communication of ideas combined with technologies that made any late comers very disadvantaged. Prior to this, you have the Athenian democracy, which occurred in a small city-state for only around 200 years (and that democratic privilege was not extended to those the city exerted influence over). You also have the Roman Republic, which arguably was less democratic than Azir or the Lossand. Democracy also tends to function best when a nation is not under extreme crisis, when a powerful individual takes control to avert whatever is going on. Crisis is generally the condition that our books occur in. Until cosmere technology and communications catch up to Renaissance era in our world, I wouldn't expect democracy to be long lasting anywhere it did occur.

Just read this old post from Mac. Almost foreshadows what Xanas did. I wish I could claim there was some correlation here, but Mac is just good at guessing.

"You won't get very good reception with one of those, we'll have to hook it to a cell booster. I'll show you where you can make a call. As for a tour, not today. Perhaps another time, one on which I am in a more pensive mood." Xanas thought for a minute or two. Mike was certainly not ready for any investiture that came with Identity - his own was probably still too fragile. That rules out any spikes or any of the really fun experiments. Medallions would take too much time for far too little results without compounding, and that was basically the pedestrian way of being Invested. Aviar were far too picky eaters, and spren bonds were unusual without traveling to Roshar, which Xanas was unsure if he could he even do. He felt a pang of loss at the prospect of never again watching the dawn during a Weeping - the light and the dark mixing in such a beautiful fashion, but stuffed the emotion back into the recesses of his mind. He'd missed far too many Weepings to start caring now. The Dor was finicky in the Alleyverse, but perhaps he could - of course! "I've just thought of the right procedure for you, to help you and your friends. The Alleys have procured organic tissue samples which, when a current of the proper amperage is passed through them, simulate the capacities of the donor organism. They act in a similar manner to Invested fauna such as those of the Eelokin Islands, though they are uninvested in a technical sense. They do however, draw on an energy source not disimilar to a Shard, though manifestation of extranatural abilities is individually dependent on the genetics of the recipient. It's a non-invasive device, which should be more to your liking." Xanas paused, realizing he was still talking to a teenage boy. "I believe the colloquial name for them are Epic motivators?" @Sorana

Here is the original post on the shard for reference - the creation of @Jofwu and @Paleo. I really like it as you are able to modulate what you want to read/see - Hoid connections, essential arcs, and formats. Of course it could be tweaked and made more visually streamlined, but it is quite good as is.

Xanas nodded. He was a little disappointed - it was a bit short-sighted, considering friends can change and die, but then again, he was a teenager. Perhaps as he grew older, he would understand what was really important. "I can help with that. I suppose the first matter would be to find them. Wes, you said? Where would you want to meet him, and how would I tell him to meet you there?" @Sorana

Ire (pronounced Eye-ree) is actually an Aonic word signifying age, and has no relation to the English "ire".

Xanas watched as Mike vented. He waited patiently until Mike stopped talking, then said, "Do you know Kelsier's last words? 'I am the one thing you can never kill, Lord Tyrant. I am hope.'" Xanas paused for a moment before continuing. "You saw two shadows of presents that can never be. That's normal. No one ever sees a possible path they can become. That's not what I mean by choosing a path. I don't mean choosing to be a hero. Look at me, for goodness' sake. Do you know what I saw when I burned gold the last time? I saw dozens of me. I saw a young man, still weaving stories in a small town, content but naive. I saw the conqueror, a man with a few spikes who decided to return home and take power. I saw the surgeon and the scholar. I saw the assassin and the hero. I saw the god who ruled with benevolent tyranny. And I saw the monster I always knew I could become, the one who killed for enjoyment, vicious and biting and cold. I am not any of those men. But in a way, they are all me. I'm no hero, Mike. I don't even know if I can count as a good man. But at least I try to make to the world a better place, a more knowledgeable place. That is what I want to be, and that is what I have become. And here in these Alleys, I have found the power to make that wanting real. "So, Mike, what do you want to be? You're back in these Alleys, the ones that in many ways changed you from the men you saw into the man you are. These Alleys have the power to take you from who you are today to who you want to be tomorrow. You want to be naive again? We can do that. We can remove those spikes, wipe your mind, and send you back to live a quiet, small life, until you die. You want to be in a guild, to be an agent of someone else's will? We know people who would take you. You wish to rule? I know cities who would bow before someone with your power. You desire to be a warrior? We can train you. You desire knowledge? You have come to the right place. Whatever you desire to become, we can make you into it, but it has to be your choice, to make it mean anything. What do you want to be? "You have arrived at a crossroads today, Mike. Any path you take will leave another gold shadow in your past. What path do you want to see by burning gold, and which one do you want to see in the mirror?" @Sorana

Well, Sanderson himself has referenced a hypothetical "Tanavastium" (and also here - between the two, the questioner also mentioned raysium and edglium as example god metal names) and trellium is a name created by the fan base (though Sanderson approved us using it). But based entirely off of canonical, in-book appearances, plus WoB as ancillary evidence, we have exactly three data points - atium, harmonium, and lerasium - and several potential data points in tanavastium, raysium, edglium, and trellium. Sanderson himself explained why ettmetal is an outlier in that group, and the remainder don't break the pattern. Hypothesizing a theoretical outlier to this trend is essentially unfounded. Occam's razor would lead us to believe that this simply isn't the case. I fail to see how Adonalsium's nature is relevant to the question - in either case, it's a convoluted train of logic at best leading to Aluminum. I am completely okay with you deciding on your own head canon, but to me, it just doesn't make sense in light of what we know. Sorry.

I am honestly entirely unsure what you mean by this. The WoBs I quoted clearly demonstrate that, from Brandon Sanderson's perspective, Adonalsium came from Adonai, the Hebrew word for Lord. As far Harmonium, well, there is a WoB stating the reason it is different: I don't know why Adonalsium would have been called "Aluminados", had a metal associated with him called Aluminum, and then at the Shattering suddenly begin to be called Adonalsium - it's rare enough for people to know Adonalsium that there isn't really a reason for some secret name cover-up or anything. Personally, I think the OP is just a nice coincidence. Those do happen.

I think that if Elantrians predate Elantris (which makes naming them somewhat confusing, but anyways), then Elantris itself wouldn't significantly effect the pre-Elantris Elantrians' appearance different than how we have seen distance do so. What happens if Raoden is in the Rose Empire? Or Galladon on Roshar? What do they appear as? As far as the OPs question goes, here's everything relevant I could find [spoilered for length]: tl:dr We just have very little information on even if anything predated the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, but it was a really long time ago.

I think in light of these two WoBs, the Aluminados idea is not highly likely to be true. It seems to me to be working backward from Aluminum to Adonalsium, which requires the theory to be true to be valid. Interesting thoughts, though. @wildcard09