Elder

I’ve been going through the Mistborn Trilogy and I think I may have figured out why Sazed is having trouble with his balance as of Era 2 (and presumably 3). It’s a matter of timing. The creation of humans left Ruin (Ati) more powerful than Preservation (Leras). Yet as of The Hero of Ages Ruin (Ati) and Preservation (Vin) are evenly matched due to A lot of Ruin’s power being tied up in Atium being hoarded by the Kandra, and then burned up by Elend and the Mistfallen company. It occurred to me that if Sazed hadn’t claimed both powers and changed the nature of God-Metal on Scadrial, all that Atium would have eventually coalesced in the pits if Hathsin. - Brandon Sanderson, Mistborn, the Final Empire, 2006 pg 457 (side note, knowing that Allomancy is the art of Preservation and that it shatters Ruin’s Godmetal makes a lot of sense now). Fast forward 300 years, and now Sazed has a Shadow. If I had to guess, all that spent Atium has finally reconstituted itself as a part of Harmony, and it’s tipping his scales. Then the Shadow is gone the next time Sazed sees Kelsier. How did he make it go away? I’m guessing it has to do with Wax’s experiment and Marsh’s Atium compounding. Wax’s experiment is a way to extract excess Ruin from Harmony in the form of Atium, which Marsh can then use for Compounding. That will still put the stuff in circulation eventually, but much much more slowly.

An understatement indeed lol

That’s still plausible. You probably wouldn’t see the same kind of genetic damage in cells created by a Kandra. The Telomeres suffer wear and tear whenever cells replicate, and Kandra probably wouldn’t need that. though, if they replicate the cells with the exact genetic damage they had when ingested, that theory doesn’t work.

And how hard would it be for them to grow another CNS patterned after their own to split? In fact, that makes sense and explains the reduced lifespan: it takes about 5 decades for them to reach critical (bio)mass where it’s no longer feasible for a single CNS to manage such a large and complex organism, so the split everything apart, including the CNS into multiple organisms. I still don’t see any point in sexual reproduction in a species that obtains all its physical traits as well as radical genetic diversity from its diet.

Cognitively, sure they are still human, biologically, they are not at all human. Rashek literally took their biological humanity away. Human reproduction is a biological function. Rashek took all their human anatomy away. Mistwraiths are only as biologically human as whatever they’ve managed to eat. They can pick up all the genetic diversity they could ask for in their diet. I see two possibilities: 1. They reproduce asexually. They split apart at some point into multiple new mistwraiths. Also worth noting, there’s hardly any gestation required for an amorphous blob that is going to grow and gain size and structure based on what it eats. 2. At some point they eat and recreate sexual organs and use them by instinct. The thing is, this can be done just as much asexually as it can be done sexually. A mistwraith could easily produce all the required organs for the entire process. Please understand I realize and agree with Harmony’s logic in why he didn’t grant the Kandra the same kind of procreation he gave the Koloss. Thank you for confirming the possibility.

@alder24 and @Trusk'our, thank you both for bringing those resources to the discussion. Regarding the passage you quoted, I’m not sure if I’m as certain of your interpretation. The term “breed true” could just mean they reproduce in kind, their children being the same species, as opposed to it mending they mate with each other. I suppose it’s semantics: I put more emphasis on “true,” and am less concerned with the term “breed” in that phrase. I’m not saying you’re wrong. Mistwraiths certainly are capable of creating whatever anatomy they need to reproduce sexually. But again I have to ask why? They don’t need any genetic information from each other. Certainly a possibility. Though, that does seem like the sort of thing Harmony could directly affect, just as he has with the Koloss. Something else that’s occurred to me: Pa’alm. 1. Sanderson declined to have Lessie and Wax have any children. Did not give Wax a half-Kandra child out there. That may indicate that he hasn’t wanted to get into that possibility. He can always go later, but so far he hasn’t. Me’Laan probably isn’t running off with Wayne’s child across the Cosmere either. 2. If anyone could have created more blessings for more Kandra, it would be Pa’alm. Kandra that have no tie to Harmony, and never did. Single Spike Trellium Kandra. Suit does seem to believe in Trell aligned faceless immortals at the end of BoM. I wouldn’t call this conclusive…. But it’s definitely a possibility. Much more than option 1.

I’d like to have a tasteful if also frank discussion about Kandra Reproduction. We’ll start with what we know. Then I’d like to speculate about their current state as well as something a little more out there. 1. What we know. Kandra are created by giving specially crafted Hemalurgic spikes to Mist Wraiths. This gives them sentience, and at this point they generally start organizing their bodies into humanoid shapes. Mist Wraiths have an 50 year life span and are capable of reproduction. Did I miss anything? 2. Kandra Reproduction as of Era 2. Harmony isn’t giving out any more blessings. Maybe he’s not interested in killing people to help a race of immortals reproduce. Either way that doesn’t happen anymore. The Kandra Race has been stated to have hard limits on their numbers. Discord might allow more, but Discord isn’t here right now. I wonder however if Kandra would still have the ability to reproduce and create Mist Wraiths. I can imagine why they wouldn’t. Their children would not be intelligent, and would die before their parents. That would put a damper on any desire to start a family. Harmony could be prompted to give those children more of a life. He did it for the Koloss. Of course given the inherent differences between Koloss and Koloss-blooded, Kandra may still not want to have children who are that much different from them. I’m also unsure if Mistwraith reproduction is necessarily anything like human or even animal reproduction. What do they need with genetic transfer? For all we know, Mistwraiths reproduction is something like mitosis. That would explain the 50 year life span. After a few decades, a mistwraith splits into 2+ smaller mistwraiths. That would also be a good reason why Kandra wouldn’t want to try that kind of reproduction. 3. Human reproduction. We know based on Wayne and Me’Laan that the Kandra are fully capable of sexual relationships with humans. So I have to wonder: could a Kandra replicate the necessary organs and cells to conceive, carry, and /or give birth to a child? And if they did, would that child be fully human?

K. Just throwing this out there: Jack Black as Breeze. And….. Sean Bean as Kelsier! Ok, that one I’m just kidding.

It seems to me that Harmony’s intent, as defined and executed by Sazed, is to balance out Ruin and Preservation. Problem is, the two forces aren’t balanced - Ruin is still stronger than Preservation, with a certain amount of more of Preservation invested into mankind. So Harmony compensates through mankind. This reflected in the simplistic commandment of the Path: do more good than evil, and in withholding of Hemalurgy. Eventually, Sazed may lose the balance of Harmony and become Discord. If so, the Path may be his attempt at having humanity restore that balance. that said, the seeds of Discord may be sown, especially if Hemalurgy is that seed. If the Ghostbloods start spiking the extra Preservation out of people, I feel that could affect the cosmic balance of Harmony, Scadrial, and Scadrian humanity. I’m not certain what the consequences will be, which way it will tip the scale.

Theory: Pa’alm did know how to make the spikes. The only alternative is that Autonomy knew. I couldn’t tell you which possibility is more likely. Unrelated theory: Bands of Mourning indicates that Kandra can’t just use each other’s Blessing Willy Nilly. Even Pa’alm’s bullet spike had to be made special. So, I wonder: was Ten’soon able to use Or’Seur’s because TenSoon ate Ore’Seur? Ore’Seur was tortured to death. If Ten’Soon had used acid, you’d think there’d be a very inconvenient mess.

Oathbringer is my personal favorite. I look forward to your take on it.

To be fair, there’s a lot of people on Scadrial who worship him too.

I think it’s possible, but he’d actually have to want it. Right now, he doesn’t. Even blinded, he’d rather numb himself to his guilt than face it and fix it.

He’s been doing that since he became Harmony in Secret History. That said, you’re right.

I wonder if the Rosharan term is so popular because the Rosharan sub-astral is more populous than others. I mean Kelsier seemed extremely lonely on Scadrial, though I can’t say whether other worlds would be similar or different.

I’m not sure Shadesmar is a completely Rosharan term. I believe I’ve heard it elsewhere, from people who came from elsewhere. Doesn’t Khriss use the term in Secret History?

Who discovered the use of particular metals in fabrial mechanics? Or who scared off Ulim’s contact?

Possible sad but poetic ending for Shallan: when she hits her final ideal and/or revives Testament, she can only sustain one radiant bond and Pattern ends up as a Soul Caster. That, however is based on multiple assumptions that may or may not be valid.

Worth noting, a lot of the fabrial mechanics lecture from Navani involved the use of metals we would recognize for their use in Scadrian Metallic arts. It would make sense for the renowned artifabrian who “discovered” these principles to be secretly Scadrian. Plus, someone scared off the Terriswoman who was working for Odium.

Something I’d like to point out: - Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings, 2010, pg 1110 Vorinism, what’s left of the Worship of Honor, had issues with seeing the future, a power that was noted as not being something their God was best at. Truthwatchers said are to be closer, if not closest, to Cultivation. Granted, all Knights Radiant are still tied to honor with their reliance on his power, Stormlight. However, I find it possible, even likely, that a certain amount of Fortune could be found in the Old Magic. Cultivation is all about building towards a future. She doesn’t have an exact knowledge of the future. I think that she’s better at dealing with that though, while honor has trouble with the uncertainties, being more rigid. We’ll see. That one ancient Truthwatcher who foresaw the binding of Ba Ado Mishram and/or the abandonment of Utithiru felt the need to keep it a secret, so they were obviously different from their fellows. But I think it’s clear that Culivation does work on different rules from honor, and maybe, just maybe, wants the Truthwatchers to have that power. This actually ties to another question on my mind: would “enlightened” cryptics also have the ability to grant a surge of fortune? Or is lightweaving too strongly tied to the idea of truth and lies for them to be separated from it? Would it change them too much?

On that last note, I’m wondering if they’re still bonded when they become Fabrials, they could have the means of changing back. A way for a high level Radiant to (temporarily) delegate power.

In Rhythm of War, Navani makes a discovery that’s fairly easy to overlook in the face of her other accomplishments in the book. It begins with her contemplation of Soulcasters: Soulcasters are the same sort of Spren as the Radiants. The creation of such is known to the fused, and they have used it to make their dampening Fabrials: Though they clearly have some limitations, and in stating them, Raboniel unwittingly informs Navani of their nature: Add to this the nature of The Sibling as an enormous fabrial and we can quite obviously conclude that Radiant Spren can become Fabrials. This leaves me with some questions: 1. Is it just Soulcasters? Or could certain Radiant Spren become other kinds of Fabrials? The Sibling is clearly far more than a Soulcaster, but being a Bondsmith Spren makes them a unique case. The Enlightened Spren acting as a Dampener for the fused would indicate that one can indeed become something else. I think there’s also a healing fabrial in one of Dalinar’s visions. What ever happened to those? 1.a. What kind of Spren is dampening? Is this a kind of Enlightened Surge like Renarin’s access to Fortune? 1.b. Could we get others? A Gravitation surge jetpack? An Illumination Projector? An Adhesion…… welder? Glue Gun? An Abrasion Lubricator ? what kind of possibilities might there be? 2. Under what circumstances does a Radiant Spren become a fabrial? Evidently they do it voluntarily. 2.a. Is it a function of the 5th ideal? This obviously wouldn’t apply to the Sibling, but again, they’re special. Who knows about enlightened dampener Spren. 3.b. Is it a “I can’t get a knight to bond me, so I’ll do it on my own.” Kinda deal? This kinda works in my mind. In theory, perhaps it’s a radiant Spren manifesting so far into the material realm that they lose all cognitive function (soulcasters are seen as inanimate objects in the Material Realm and as unconscious in the Cognitive, though clearly not deadeyes). What are your thoughts?

Whoever has the role of Spook, being half incomprehensible for the first book/movie/season…. That’s quite the feat of acting prowess.

Quantus gave you an excellent definition of breaths. That said, I’m not certain they’re necessarily the source of Hoid’s immortality, he has no lack of tricks up his sleeve.

I imagine any control he has over his God Metal is purely subconscious. Not something the Vessel is usually in tune with.