Elder

Is Health even a part of Kandra life? Do they have “Health” to store? I’m not certain if Health is a relevant concept in their lives…. I mean would they get sick when they store health? Can they get sick?

It seems Odium retains its other restrictions as well: No leaving the Roshar System, and some sort of limit on violence it can inflict on people, particularly Hoid, though I’m kinda fuzzy on the latter.

Interesting point. I honestly don’t know…. Sazed could make a set of Shard level metal minds. Those could be very interesting. this also brings a bit of a non-sequitur to mind: Harmony’s power is in the Mists, just like Preservation’s used to be. On the other hand, Harmonium reacts explosively to water, including water vapor. So technically Harmony can make Harmonium explode……. Maybe the Mists are more of the Preservation Side, while the Metal is more the Ruin side.

Interesting, and I’d be eager to try it. Building on that, I’ve seen a few different approaches to fantasy recipes: 1. Trying to make in-bookfoods using real food analogues that are decently close to what’s seem in the books. So you might see rice substituted for Tallew Grain. A lot of shell fish in Rosharan recipes etc. 2. Making up foods based on real world dishes and lightly using themes from the books to give them flair. On the one hand, my original pitch was definitely more along the lines of version 1, while I’d argue yours is more based on 2. But on the other hand, these are hardly mutually exclusive. Both can be fun. I find myself debating whether Chull would be better represented by crab/lobster meat, or in the way your recipe describes. Before your recipe, I would have gone with the former. But now, I realize I need not limit my thinking so much.

I own cookbooks based on Star Wars, Warcraft, and Elder Scrolls, and I imagine some day I’ll get more. Do you know what I want? I want a book full of the tastes of the Cosmere. Give me recipes for Horneater Stew, all 10 of the pancakes they eat in Yeddaw. Scadrian Bayraps, Chouta (definitely chouta!). throw in flavor text on customs and a little bit about the places these foods come from. Any particular Cosmere foods you’d want to see?

I’m not sure if the pancakes are more like what we in the U.S. call pancakes (or flapjacks, what-have-you), or if they’re like Korean pancakes, which are more of a savory affair involving onion (quite delicious). and yes, Dragonsteel should put out a Cosmere cookbook. I own cookbooks based on Azeroth (Warcraft), Skyrim (Elder Scrolls) and a Galaxy Far Far Away. I need one from the Cosmere.

Just throwing this up as a reference as to what this thread was originally about.

I don’t think we do. That said, it is clear that God Metals can be used in multiple ways. We’ve seen multiple God-Metals metals used in Hemalurgy, Allomancy, technology, explosives (including wmds), Fabrial Mechanics, and in weaponry, both as pure manifestation and incorporated into spears and daggers. While I’d argue against universal application for each God Metal, it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if some had Feruchemical applications.

And we’ve officially crossed into debating real world theology. If we’re gonna do this, tread carefully. Personally, I’d prefer we didn’t.

I feel like this may be getting too close to a real religious debate. I’m not saying anyone’s broken any rules, but this feels way too hot. At least to me. To get to the root of this tangeant/derailment, I think there’s enough WoB’s floating around that state that the author’s intent is to never reveal anything that completely destroys or vindicates any character’s personal theology. Therefore, Atheists like Jasnah, believers in the God Beyond like Silence, and Survivorists like Marasi, rusts even people who believe in the Lord Ruler like the Yomen’s will always find something that will validate each of their beliefs. They will also find things to cast doubt. Therefore, there absolutely can be Cosmere aware atheists, believers in the God Beyond, etc. etc. I feel comfortable enough talking about real religion to say this: People believe in whatever they choose to believe, whether or not evidence supports, refutes, or exists. And Brandon Sanderson has been very respectful of that in the Cosmere. I can see that here. People are bringing religious passion and stubbornness to this discussion, and I don’t think it’s helping anything. Some believe Shards are omnipotent, despite any argument or evidence to the contrary. Some find the Shards utterly unworthy of worship and reverence. Some advocate for the God Beyond. Some for Adonalsium. I would contend that Sanderson has given some evidence to validate all these viewpoints, room to disprove them all, and is trying to respect his character’s views no matter what. I’m not accusing anyone of blatant disrespect, but I just don’t like the tension here. Let’s handle this discussion of fictional theology better than some of the real life ones I’ve seen.

A Shard with Vessel is limited by the vessel because the Vessel lacks the mental capacity to fully comprehend what the Shard is capable of. A Shard without vessel is limited because the Shard lacks the mental capacity to accomplish anything worthwhile. If I’m doing the vague infinite impossible math right, a Vessel is a force multiplier, not a force limiter. However you want to define Omnipotence, all of this highlights how limited and dangerous Omnipotence without commensurate Omniscience is. I’d rather have an All-knowing source of knowledge and wisdom to learn from than an All-Powerful wrecking ball that barely knows what it’s doing. Cosmere seems to have a handful of the latter (assuming Endless Power satisfies your requirements for omnipotence). Therefore, I don’t think anyone would be deluded or ignorant if they knowingly rejected the Shards as Gods. Now tying this all back into the original topic, this is actually why Sazed made a better world than Rashek. Sazed knew more. His capacity had already been expanded by his copper minds. I doubt there’s enough copper on Scadrial to truly match a Shard, but he’s the best they’ve got. Therefore, Harmony still being revered as god is still a worthy choice. Survivorism has less to do with Kelsier’s power and more to do with the Religion’s morality. Survivorists acknowledge Harmony’s power, but they like the ideals a morals of the Survivor more (granted, I’m not sure they really have any clue as to Kelsier’s actual morals). This makes sense. In life, Kelsier did far more to inspire people than Sazed did, so his memory has left a stronger impression. That’s not going away. This highlights that people generally follow their god more out of faith in their values than just because of power. The question is: is Thaidakar living up to the legacy of “The Survivor?” I’m not certain. We still don’t know near enough about Sliverism. Rashek was a terrible person, who did an insane amount of ecological and social damage to the world, but somehow the Yomens seem to be good people and have fostered a viable religion. We still need to know more.

Another disruption to the bond between Autonomy and Bavadin: Autonomy is gunning for Harmony, but Harmony’s stated goal is to foster free will, or in other words, autonomy. She’s messing with other Shards based on the vessel’s fear and interpretation of a very loose agreement (one Honor doesn’t care about and that she doesn’t think stops her from undermining Shards), not necessarily based on Autonomy’s intent. In other words, Autonomy is undermining someone who restrains his power to support Autonomy. There’s certainly wiggle room, interpretation of intent. But that’s at least two things about Bavadin’s interpretation here that could be considered hypocritical. I imagine many of the vessels carry their Shards poorly (Rayse and Ati both seem to have had shortcomings in this area). Is it all that surprising that Bavadin could be fumbling it?

Going through TLM for the second time, and in the beginning, it’s suggested that a Trellium Spike allowed a Hemalurgic Bloodmaker to heal even when according to an experienced bloodmaker he shouldn’t be able to: the ability to heal head trauma even without consciousness. this may be a function of Autonomy allowing powers to function of their own volition.

A thought Harmonium is not an alloy of Lerasium and Atium. Perhaps the first metalminds were the alloy of Lerasium and Atium. The Ancient Terris did know both Preservation and Ruin. Either way, I still believe that Feruchemy is gained via Feruchemy, no need to burn anything. Whether it was Lerasium or Leratium, in my mind, the first Feruchemists invested their spirit into the Godmetal, and when they drew it back out, their souls were expanded. that would also explain why Kelsier can’t do it himself: he’s already using Hemalurgy to pin himself to his body. He can’t invest himself into something else. Just a hunch mind you.

Worth noting: Pa’alm functioned on a single Trellium Spike. The other Kandra said she was crazy, but she seemed pretty lucid. Like her issues had nothing to do with any kind of mental illness. Compare to Re’luur (totally butchering names I heard in audiobooks) who is hardly coherent. I propose that Trellium Spikes are specifically designed to function with one spike so that Harmony has no claim. At least for Pa’alm and her chimaeras. Another odd attribute. Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Bleeder able to hemalurgically communicate with Wax? And Wax could communicate with Telsin. That seems new. I suggest that Trellium based Hemalurgy has less potential for Hemalurgic control, and more to do with Hemalurgic independence. No one gets control per se and communication is much less restricted. found a WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/74-shadows-of-self-san-jose-signing/#e7773 Basicallly, Trellium was created for the specific purpose of messing with Harmony.

Or…… and hear me out, maybe there are ways to make play with those medallions to change that DNA after all. So far we haven’t seen any God-Metal Medallions. Maybe a Lerasium Medalion with Nicrosil? Maybe Preservation gave the ancient Terris God Metal unkeyed metal minds.

I’m going through Shadows of Self…… and something interesting: it seems that up until the “Sovereign” showed up, the Southern Scadrians didn’t have Feruchemy. The Malwish aren’t Terris. Evidently Kelsier figured out how to create Feruchemy.

Does it have to be an Allomantic ability? What if Feruchemy is actually granted via feruchemy. Allomancy is granted via Allomancy…. Just a thought. I do think that Alloying Harmonium could make it safer. Maybe. I can’t imagine any one alloy being more likely to grant Feruchemy than another. Alloys might grant single metal Feruchemy I suppose, just like you can alloy Lerasium to make a misting instead of having it pure to make a Mistborn.

A lot of the study on Harmonium has been focused on what it can do with Malwish Tech, what works and what doesn’t work when trying to split it into Atium and Lerasium, and explosive potential. I have this vague memory of Harmonium having no alloys, but I can’t seem to find any reference to it. The stuff is fairly new, and folks in the Basin really haven’t experimented with it much. So it stands to reason people may not have discovered the alloys yet. If my memory isn’t wrong, could someone help me with the reference? On the other hand, for what it’s worth, alkali metals can be alloyed with Gold at the very least (https://www.nature.com/articles/152215a0). Ironically, that’s one of the two metals that we know the alloys of with Atium. We also know what happens with Lerasium Alloys. So what might one accomplish with a Harmonium Alloy, if it’s possible?

The need for the bullet to be pure Alluminum is probably going to be the dealbreaker here. No pure Alluminum bullets and all. No Hemalurgic Alluminum guns. As for aiming, depends on what kind of shooting you’re doing. I certainly wouldn’t want to try it in combat. But, sniping a target at rest would be much less difficult. Add an high level of natural skill and maybe metalborn augmentation, I still think it’s quite possible. But, given the paragraph above the point is moot. Sniping with a longbow or crossbow might be more likely, though that seems less accurate and like the spike is pretty easily removed. Hemalurgic control is probably still on the table. Now I wonder. Usually it either takes Lerasium or talent not that far removed from Lerasium, Duralumin, or a group of emotional allomancers to take control of a Hemalurgic creature like a koloss or a kandra. If you could use multiple Hemalurgic bullets, or better yet, Hemalurgic Shotgun pellets, I wonder if that would make it significantly easier, within the realm of your average modern rioter/soother. As for whether control requires a bind point, I don’t know. I feel like reviewing when Marsh spiked Penrod would be in order. I’m not sure how much accuracy was involved when Spook was spiked. Then again, he got pewter allomancy, so probably plenty. This would still be someone killing people to make bullets (or shotgun pellets) with the express intent of taking away their freedom. Sounds pretty dark.

I suppose it depends on where the bind point for aluminum is. It may or may not require piecing a bone. And it definitely would have to be a specialty round. Just like it was when Wax used it on Pa’alm. I imagine it would take a fair amount of experimentation to get the ballistics right. It’s worth noting that Aluminum Bullets are made from aluminum alloys. So do Hemalurgic Spikes need to be made from pure metal to carry the effect? As for the required precision, I don’t think that’s necessarily as hard as you think. I imagine it’s within reach of a talented and dedicated marksman, especially if enhanced with Tin, or perhaps Feruchemical chromium. Or both. You’d still need a delivery system for a coin shot to do it, since Alluminum can’t be moved allomantically. Maybe a bullet casing. That would make it difficult to get other enhancements though. The main thrust I’m going for here is weaponized Hemalurgic Aluminum. Preferably ranged. There’s room to workshop.

Fair point, and a good set of requirements. in theory, a very talented Sniper with an Alluminum bullet indented as a spike could completely remove the powers of an invested individual. It would have to be perfectly aimed and deliberately done. That tracks, and is useful for story purposes. And doesn’t require someone to be sacrificed to make each bullet. Much less dark that I felt before. Hemalurgic Control Bullets on the other hand probably are about as dark and evil as they come.

Ok, so your saying Aluminum removes the powers of the person sacrificed to make the spike (who’s probably already dying), not the person who receives the spike. By that logic, any aluminum bullet technically becomes a Hemalurgic spike bullet. I’m pretty sure Wax and Wayne (especially Wayne) take an aluminum bullet or two. Might still be bind point reliant.

I also wonder about what other Atium Alloys might be able to do. Right now we have: Electrum+Atium= precognitive Atium as used by Mistborn (and Seers, though now I wonder if Old Yomen and the other snapped seers were actually just Electrum burning oracles). Gold+Atium=Malatium-projected visions of the past. In both cases, it took what was an internal effect and made it external. Or maybe it took the powers and made them more useful. So my speculation: Atium+Cadmium: put the speed bubble around other people without needing the grenade. Slow/stasis traps Atium+Bendalloy: again, bubble around other people, though this seems to be of less use, though I could think of some interesting applications off the top of my head. Or maybe the allomancers can start carrying the bubbles around with them. Copper: blind a seeker Bronze: help other people detect allomancers? That doesn’t seem right Zinc: empathy? Yeah that doesn’t really work with Ruin. Brass: Self Soothing? yeah, this isn’t working right now. I’ll have to give it some more thought. Good night.