Elder

There’s a certain part of me that can see Adolin as a duelist being a better fit for Retribution than Taravangian. Not that I think he should take that role. I also think there’s enough Cultivation to Adolin for him to get all 3 (his wardrobe, his dedication to skill and development, the way he develops people).

Isolation on a planet with 3 shards is a stretch. I can buy the idea that Vasher was part of Endowment’s aid to Valor. I can buy that Endowment could be lying. But Roshar is no place for isolation.

The fact that it’s provided nightly (as opposed to on the intermittent schedule of the High Storms) makes me think it’s got a poor shelf life.

The issue I have with the idea of Valor already working on Roshar is that Endowment thinks that she and Valor are the only ones who know how to mind their own business. Then again, Endowment and Harmony are offering different reports on what’s going on with Valor. I assumed it was the Wind who recruited Notum.

So, the political situation on Roshar. Let’s hash this out: 90% of the continent belongs to Retribution’s Singer coalition including: - a Conquered Alethkar - a conquered Herdaz… though I’m not sure what happened at the end of that Interlude. Did the greatshell eat the Mink? Rescue him? Give him a ride out? I think Retribution would have included it in his musings if they’d liberated it in the end. - A defected Yah Keved… I didn’t hear about any particular concessions they got out of it. Taravangian seems to have given them to Odium as part of his deal to save Karbranth. They probably have control over the kingdoms between Jah Keved and Azir by virtue of Conquest… I wonder how much sway they have over the Valley, especially now that Cultivation is gone. - a willingly surrendered Iri and Rira, who were definitely under Singer rule…. Though the Iriali up and left. That’s gotta be an awkward situation. - The various former nations of the Azish “Empire.” No idea what concessions they negotiated for their defection. Has anything really changed for them? Are they more free or less? Can Retribution keep the peace between Emul and Tukar. - The actual land of Reshi - And of course Thaylenah. They definitely got good concessions out of Odium. Good enough that they’re probably the most privileged humans on Roshar. That won’t cause problems, I’m sure. Outside Retribution’s control are: - Urithiru, shielded, garrisoned with Knights Radiant, isolated. - Azir itself, with its Unoathed shardbearers. They may disturb Pax-Retributus, as virtue outside of oaths is kinda their thing. - The Reshi Greatshell Isles, who are cooler than the ones on land. - Narak, which seems awkward. They own Retributions perpendicularity, the only way in or out of Shadesmar unless you have the surge of Transportation… and they have that too with the Reachers. The Singers, at least the same and reasonable ones, approve of this, though there may be some dissention. I’m not sure… does anyone own the Purelake? Aimia?

I tend to agree. I’d argue that his adherence to the treaty had less to do with the treaty and more to do with him actually remembering what he truly fights for - the singers, and not necessarily the fused. He wants his people to have a future, and is proud of the Listeners for securing one for themselves. Having a bond probably helps though. Really though, he technically could have one of several other bonds if he’s on good terms with Sja-Anat. Worth noting, he can use at least one surge as a Fused too, meaning he could have up two or three. If all 3 are adjacent, we may never know which ones are from a bond.

He is allied with Skybreakers (who would approve of how he respects the treaties in play) and Dustbringers (who would respect his outstanding self control). So…

I believe it’s explicitly stated that he’s applying for work with House Ladrian. It’s also stated that Hoid has a crisis to resolve on Scadrial before he can reconnect with Valor.

the Local Lord vs Retribution? Both are bad. And under the current system, the local lord will be upheld. And there’s plenty of wiggle room where despots can abuse their power legally. Rule of law, contracts, oaths, can all be exploited, as the last book has illustrated. The difference between Retribution and your local lord is: the local lord is a lot easier to replace, or you can leave. and a god whose stated goal is interstellar war cannot be described as bringing peace. Retribution will always bring further retribution. Thinking about it, thanks largely to Honor’s constraints upon him, Odium has been largely operating as Retribution would which is why he was able to entice the Shard of Honor. The bonds of Honor are now integrated, so, other than the ability to leave Roshar, nothing really has changed. Still the same hatred, still the same plans, still the desire to destroy all rivals. Now he just wants to impose honor while he does it.

The economic concerns were compelling… though, airships would have made their way of life obsolete anyway.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the part of TLM that mentions Iyatil is from Twin Soul’s perspective, right? If the brother is being kept in the dark, Twin Soul is probably the same.

He probably doesn’t know because Kelsier hasn’t told him. He may wait on that info too long. interesting horneater theory.

Note, in the Epigraphs, the Well of Control is in the “shroud of the fragments of the dead moon.” is that shroud Stone? Or is it Night (cause moon)? I don’t think this keen observation narrows it down at all.

Oh, I think she might deck him when she sees him again… then hug him. they may try again.

- it kinda is a desolation already. Still. Geography is rearranged. Infrastructure crippled. Kingdoms fallen. Meteorological chaos. After 10 years, I imagine they’re barely thinking about recovery. - Retribution is kinda hardwired by both the combined intent of his shards, his own plans prior to stormfall, and his economic system of investiture towards tyranny. And our first book is about a Edgedamcer (Remmembering all those people who the new system will be oppressing) who has a propensity for breaking rules. Yes. The treaty will be broken. Plus we just had a book about how Oaths are not the ultimate virtue. you’re also assuming the Radiants will be the ones taking initiative. My money is on Retribution subtlety goading them into violating the Treaty/contract do that he can unleash retribution upon them. - I expect a certain amount of mixed feelings from the population of Roshar. Whole can of worms there. Worth its own thread. Suffice to say, there will be room for discontent under the Tyranny of Retribution. But yes, winning hearts and minds will be a struggle. Good obstacle for heroes to overcome. - yup. But our heroes may or may not know that. Not unlike Kelsier’s crew having no idea what the Lord Ruler did for Scadrial. May not stop them even if they find out. Since Retribution’s plans and intent is to go to war with them anyway, they probably will want to stop him.

It attracts investiture? I’m listening to Sunlit Man, and that makes me think of Canticle… which could be described as moon sized. also, I wonder if there isn’t some of that moon in the purelake.

Based on what we know about Part II: I’m betting book 6 will involve Lift going in a quest to find the Nightwatcher. I like Lift, but I’m more interested in the Nightwatcher. Also the Night. I hope we get a new Bondsmith. Book 7 may well involve Renarin doing more with his connection to the Spiritual Realm. I hope he gets to see his dad. I expect the heralds to return by the end of this book, complete with Wit pontificating on Art. 8 and 9 we get the epic romance of Ash and Taln. Flashbacks of Ash (who I’m betting was the original girl who looked up) and Taln taking a shot at Cultivation (who I expect to feature heavily) sound awesome. Book 10, I look forward to seeing flashbacks of Jasnah actually swearing her oaths, maybe seeing her wandering in Shadesmar during WoR… and I want to see an epic rematch between her and Taravangian. I’m undecided whether she should pick up one or more Shards of Adonalsium, or eschew such entirely.

Lift is the first flash back character of Era 2. She’s also probably the only Radiant (under current conditions) who can operate completely independent of Retribution. So it makes sense that she’ll go on a quest. I’m betting she’s sent to find the Nightwatcher in order to field a bondsmith who can help them continue to operate free of Retribution.

I feel like it would almost take another bondsmith to initiate the bond, but yes, those two would definitely be candidates and such a bondsmith could probably produce light that would supply rebel radiants. I don’t think Taravangian’s likely to trust anyone with the power of a Bondsmith. I wonder if a solution to the issue of increasingly unstable fused might be converting them into radiant Spren. Their situation has to change.

A fair point. Of course, she may also be among the protected Spren… though that seems unlikely. Warlight can probably power radiants, but without Spren, Retribution cannot command Radiants, which is a serious blow to his plans… unless… He could create his own Spren I’m sure. From there his own Radiants… though I doubt he’s willing to field a bondsmith. That would be quite dangerous.

What about the Purelake. Gigantic, freshwater body with a ton of holes in the floor and invested fish (kinda like that one Island with invested birds)… The epigraphs mentioned the “Well of Control, within the shroud of the fragments of the dead moon." Odium… could be control? But I doubt it. Sounds more like Autonomy. Nevermind. Control sounds exactly like Retribution, and that’s definitely Narak.

It may be that she does in fact leave Urithiru, but stays on Roshar. She could probably get to Narak, get back via perpendicularity, and have diplomatic status there at least.

Indeed. Which brings up an interesting point: both Harmony and Retribution are somewhat imbalanced. Harmony is somewhat more Ruin than Preservation, and Retribution may be more Odium than Honor. Though, Honor has more will of its own, which may make for an interesting dynamic.

I feel like Retribution is autocratic enough to directly accelerate his people’s tech. Far more than Harmony would. There will definitely be a hard push to catch up.

She’s certainly not broken to the level of, say, the heralds. There’s different levels to this. But her entire moral foundation has collapsed. Shallan and Renarin might be able to help her with that, given their understanding of truth. A vision of Dalinar, her favorite uncle could help her a lot. Aside from the prospect of a vision though, she’s going to have to humble herself to get that kind of help from her former pupil or her little cousin. The powerful princess will have to turn to those whom were, in a few different ways, quite beneath her. However, it seems to me, the Jasnah we saw last was focused on what she’d lost, not who she still had. Either way, she cannot progress near enough as the vision of confidence we got in books 1-4. I suggest that she was broken in book so that we could really focus on her rebuilding herself in 6-10. I’m suggesting that may involve a bit of running, as she’s one of the few who can. Because Retribution is exactly the sort of god Jasnah is going to fear and hate at her core. A god of vengeance. She didn’t care for Honor as a god before he got mixed up with Odium. It’s still divorced from aspects that give context such as Devotion, Reason, and Mercy. Retribution is a god who rules their world through punishment. He’s clearly planning to be such. I also predict that his management of Warlight is designed to foster utter dependence. You literally have to pray to him every night to get it. Retribution is a tyrant god if there ever was one. Mark my words.