Firesong

From what I recall, the Radiant Spren are all of Cultivation and Honor. But the natural Spren are Pre-Shattering, and also influenced by Rosharan ideals about them (as they are Cognitive entities). My theory is that it just comes down to the influence of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium all effecting them to a degree. Honor is about natural laws and order, Cultivation about growth and nature, and Odium about emotion. These all influence both people and spren, and influence the spren more through the medium of people. Thus making them take on all kinds of embodiments of natural laws (Honor and Cultivation) and emotions (Odium). And not, I said influence from Odium, not corruption. I don't think they all have Odious Investiture. I just feel that they were influenced in several ways by Odium's Intent.

This has an answer, yes, they are aware of other worlds. We can see him refer to other cultures a bunch of times, and call their utensils "maipon sticks" which Brandon said isn't exactly the truth as they are a bit different, but it was a point of reference his audience would have familiarity with.

We know exactly what they did to violate the pact, multiple Shards inhabited one system. The epigraphs continue on and explain this, with how "no good can come from more than one shard in a system", and "I am disappointed so few kept to the pact", etc. I haven't read the full thing, will expand on this response later. Shadows happens between Warbreaker and The Way of Kings, the WoB implies it is actually very close to The Way of Kings, in fact. We know it is a few generations before The Way of Kings. It was longer than a decade, and Vivenna looks like that as her aging was slowed by Breaths. Also, you have to remember for this, Rosharan years are 1.1x the length of the Cosmere standard. So you have to translate Rosharan lengths of time into a standard measure.

I think it wouldn't accelerate too much, as the thing about the massive jump between OB and RoW, is due to a new discovery that allowed for a ton of new technology to develop. That is, the interaction between Fabrials and Aluminium. I feel it is going to plateau eventually, and require a new discovery that would allow for another era of advancement.

White Sand doesn't particularly connect to any in a way that requires reading something as a prerequisite. I do recommend reading it before Rhythm of War, Tress of the Emerald Sea, and Bands of Mourning. But it isn't absolutely required for either. Tress just has a brief reference to something introduced in White Sand. Bands of Mourning has an important character from it, but you don't really need to recognize her to understand the story. I do however definitely recommend it before The Lost Metal for far more important reasons, but even then, it isn't really required. Rhythm of War has a substance in White Sand play a relatively important role. But it explains it in Rhythm of War itself, so you wouldn't need to read White Sand to understand it. But in terms of what to read before White Sand, can't really think of much.

Very true. But I do wonder if the Trail is all planned out beforehand, if they are told by some figure where to go next, or if they just wander and say "this is our new planet". Definitely excited to learn more about them, and we will, they are gonna be very important in Era 4. But will likely get some expansion in Era 3 given the mention of a very Iriali-like people in TLM. Like, why do they travel as they do, and how do they choose planets. I don't think it would be anything to do with Shards, like Roshar and Scadrial would imply, as Lumar explicitly has none. We also know that there are more than 7 planets they would have to go to interact/Connect with all Shards (SP3 spoilers) So there has to be something else leading them to do as they do. Probably not relevant to Dawnshards, despite Roshar having one, as there are Seven Lands and Four Dawnshards. So, definitely excited to hear about why the hell they are doing this. iirc, the Teo people have blond hair, maybe they have mixed Iriali heritage as well? Which would make Sel happen before Roshar, perhaps? That is a bit of a stretch though. I do think it is likely Sel was somewhere on the Long Trail though. Maybe the first is Yolen? Or maybe that is the last. Or both. Could be a circular pilgrimage where they start at Yolen, travel the cosmere, and ultimately return to Yolen. But this is all guesswork. So, potential paths: Yolen [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > ? [7] ??? [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > ? [7] ??? [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > Yolen [7] Yolen [1] > Sel (?) [?] > Roshar [4] > Scadrial [5] > Lumar [6] > Yolen [7] So these, or maybe it just doesn't have Sel. (note, I am just skipping the other lands as I can't even make theories for those yet. So I am not saying it was Sel > Roshar, moreso just, Sel before Roshar) We can at least certain that Roshar is the Fourth Land, Scadrial is Fifth Land, and Lumar is Sixth Land. Given it is canonical that Roshar is the Fourth. Mistborn Era 2 takes place shortly after The Stormlight Archive Era 1, thus the Iriali there would be on their Fifth Land. Tress of the Emerald Sea takes place in the far future, so we can assume that the Iriali there 300 years ago were still there after the Scadrial, thus making it the Sixth Land. We know it is not the Seventh as we know that the Long Trail is only Seven Lands, and they moved off of Lumar, suggesting it was not the Seventh. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not relevant, just thought of this, but I am very curious where Sleepless came from, as it is basically confirmed they aren't Yolish. As Brandon is pretty consistent that they have one origin point (and it is not Roshar), but that there are three sapient races from Yolen (Humans, Dragons, Sho Del). So, they have to come from a different planet than Yolen, and that intrigues me deeply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For those that don't know, the basic published timeline now is White Sand Elantris The Emperor's Soul Mistborn Era 1 Warbreaker Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Stormlight Era 1 Mistborn Era 2 Tress of the Emerald Sea Sixth of Dusk Tress and Yumi take place around Sixth. Tress likely takes place very close to Sixth, at least, it was being told at least after 10 years before Sixth, as it references the Ones Above on First of the Sun, and they arrived around a decade before Sixth. Hoid is telling it a few decades after he experienced it, so, it likely is before Sixth, in my interpretation. For non-published: Dragonsteel White Sand Elantris The Emperor's Soul Mistborn Era 1 Warbreaker Nightblood Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell Stormlight Era 1 Mistborn Era 2 Stormlight Era 2 Mistborn Era 3 Tress of the Emerald Sea Sixth of the Dusk Mistborn Era 4 There are a few extra ones he has planned, but we don't have a timeline for those ones. I am also not placing SP4 down on here. We know where it takes place, but this isn't the right forum to discuss that yet.

Yeah, true. We mostly see red as associated with the Voidspren, Unmade, and Fused. Which are all corrupted by him or by the Unmade, and we know red is the colour of corrupted Investiture. Well, Unmade being corrupted Spren is just a theory at this point, but them trying to Unmake the Sibling does give a lot of credence to the idea. So does Ba-Ado-Mishram's... everything. and Nergaoul being all red. But yes, as I said, my theory of Odium fusing with part of Ambition, as I said, was rather crackpot. It could be totally wrong. But I kinda want to keep holding onto it as I really like the idea.

True, it might just be one group and that would make sense. We ultimately just don't have enough info to say either with absolute certainty, whatever we come up with is just theories at this point. Although I am rather certain the Scadrian ones are the Rosharan ones leaving after or during SA5. As Scadrial we know the relative location of compared to Roshar, and it is relatively close, and also one of the Expanses corresponds to it. Only strange thing is that it would require a lot of passing over the Rosharan Subastral as they are at directly opposite ends of it, but that is assuming they did normal passage over the CR, and not something similar to whatever the Ashynites did during the Expulsion. I also don't think Brandon would drop something about people that similar to the Iriali (golden hair is something mostly associated with the Iriali and those descended from them), in a work that takes place after SA5, without it having some meaning or significance. The man loves foreshadowing. Xisis could still be Foil, and he was studying Aethers on another planet in a normal ocean, maybe the Aether Homeworld. Like, Khriss notably just said "oceans", and when she was discussing aethers, I think it would be rather pertinent or at least relevant to say like "spore oceans" or "aether oceans". Could just be that he likes living in oceans. So, you could be right about the arrival being far after RoW, and him still be Foil. More evidence for this, is Xisis has such knowledge of aethers, while Khriss implies he is knowledgeable but not on the level we see Xisis. Could be between RoW and TotES, he learned a lot. Basically, I still think Xisis is Foil. It could just be a different ocean that Khriss was referring to.

It looks great, absolutely love it. Main thing is that the Northern and Southern Crescents go out more, and there is a body of land between them which expands off screen. But I get why you didn't do it as the way you angled the map meant that you would have to guess what it looks like off-screen (or, off-page, I guess), so no real complaints there. But on an artistic level, I really love it. It is creative, and you did very, very well on the hands. Like, my goodness I am actually rather jealous. Hands are so stupidly difficult, so I am very impressed.

As mentioned, we know it takes place pretty far in the future, around SotD Era. And also, yes, Scadrians are not the only people to make it to the space age, they are just one of them. We don't know for sure if it is the same group or not. There could be more than 1 Irilai group. Which I find possible due to the fact I think Xisisrefliel is Foil, as he is a figure connected to Aethers who is under an ocean. And we know, if he is Foil, he was there by the point of RoW (so, like, in the ballpark of 330-340 PC). We also have a good idea that the exodus of the Iriali from Lumar was around the time of Xisis arrival. So, this would give us an idea of when the book takes place (less than 300 Standard Cosmere years after RoW) and it also gives an implication that they are not the same Iriali. The ones on Scadrial though, that one is possible. The events of SA5 might encourage them to leave, and Scadrial is known to be relatively close and accessible to Roshar (It has a dedicated Expanse, and doesn't have the same Cognitive Realm issues as Sel, nor the defensiveness of Autonomy in Taldain). So, I can believe that.

I do feel Identity is also relevant in the matter, and it is basically just a mix of Identity and the Second Law of Investiture. And with Trellium, I see that as it just wanting to remain independent, thus it resists anything that could corrupt it (But it seems perfectly happy to corrupt other things). It is basically the Identity aspect of the resistance, cranked up to 11.

Brandon has said usually when he mentions something he has plans for them. So we do likely have systems planned out for them. But I am definitely curious about what they are. Especially Whimsy. Due to how strictly structured a lot of systems are with their rules and limits. And Whimsy, from what we know of them, isn't really the most, rule abiding or plan-heavy of Shards. So, it might be a very unique one within the Cosmere. I am also interested in Invention. (What is Invention is connected to Fabrials?) He did avoid it, so it is likely something deeper than just a no. But we can't say with absolute certain as he often just RAFOs things that are nothing, so can't say "Oh, it definitely is". So, maybe Invention has some effect upon Fabrials. Also, I think I know why Odium is red. Maybe he was accidently corrupted by Ambition when he fought her. This would explain all the corrupted Red. It would also be a sort of irony, Odium was obsessed with never being corrupted by another Shard, but was corrupted by the one he hated the most all along (Brandon said he feared and hated Ambition a lot as she was a threat to him, with her Intent). It would also probably give a bit more to how Ambitious he is. I am not saying Odium is a full Hybrid like Harmony, but I do think it might be fused with part of Ambition. Ambition, and her relation to Odium, has been mentioned a lot in SA epigraphs, a suspicious amount, tbh. 3 or 4 times from what I can remember. Might be giving a hint. It is a very crackpot theory, but it makes sense in my mind.

I feel that it implied that they still function based on those Intents, but again, in a different way we don't fully understand, and I am very interested to see how it works. And on an Intent of its own, yeah, it probably doesn't. Didn't mean to say it did. But I still feel both can be potentially taken up under special circumstances, like what Sazed did. But, again, this is just a theory. And one I do believe would happen as the only reason I think that would make Sel so relevant as to be on the same level a Mistborn and Stormlight, would be an Ascension. As if you look, both Mistborn and Stormlight feature the passing of Shards onto a new person (and theories posit that we will see more of that in Stormlight later), so I feel that Sel might follow the same pattern. Somehow, the Dor gets fixed, in a way that lets it be taken up as a Shard, or as two Shards. And I too am waiting for that day, but he did say once he is planning to write it alongside Era 3, as it is going to be important in the timeline around that Era. (Which, as I mentioned, might be the return of D&D to the SR, and them being taken up as Shards, individually or together) And him becoming an Elantrian due to Connection, I mean, yeah, that is definitely a very big part. I was just talking about how it instantly made him become an Elantrian and have access to the Dor (though, he wouldn't need it for AonDor if the Dor does in fact go back to the SR). So I felt that there was probably something still within him that initiated the transformation after the Connection was formed, but I very much could be wrong, as yes, indeed, Investiture goes from a place of high concentration to low concentration, which includes how Invested people lose Investiture to a lower Investiture environment. To expand on that, when the environment is more Invested than them, they take it in as it flows into them. I feel this would also imply how the more Invested somebody is, the harder it is to effect them with Investiture. Due to Investiture inherently not wanting to go into a place of denser Investiture. It is at the very least a related concept. So, yeah, it was probably not from that exact scene, now that I think about it.

As the person who reverted your edit, yes, the footnote meant to show the difference between mere shadows, and a complete vision where we saw the entire environment as well. Which was strange, and the exact situation implies that it might have to do with him doing it as he transitioned between Realms. We just don't say it as a fact as it isn't confirmed that that was the reason, it was just pertinent that we mention the possibility. Because you are right otherwise, we do see Malatium used multiple times, it is just those other times we just see Shadows. I am happy that Stargazer was able to resolve that for you.

I personally just prefer the idea of the Evil being a Splinter of Ambition (or Ambition and Odium), which broke off in their fight. It very much could be associated with Fain though, that is pretty reasonable. I just thought the big thing he meant by "in significant ways" was about like, Koravellium, Xisis, Uli Da, Sho Del guides in the CR, and (SP3 Spoilers): Those I would all consider pretty significant. But again, not saying the Evil isn't associated with Fain. But I don't think it just is the Fain ecosystem.

I mean, it definitely is gonna be difficult, but we don't fully understand the Dor yet. I totally believe there could be a way to take it up. We can't say anything for sure though. Not until at least the Elantris Trilogy is finished. I also believe that the Dor has some Intent, Investiture can have Intent and Identity even outside of the Spiritual Realm, so I don't see why they would completely lack Intent. It is just not gonna work in the same way as normal Shards. We know the Dor still has Identity to a degree, as they have to/can Unkey it (TLM). As I said, the Dor is weird and we have very little understanding of it. We literally don't even know what it looks like in the Subastral or how people are able to survive in said Subastral. All we can do is theorize until we get more information. He didn't say it couldn't happen, and in fact implied it was actually possible. This says that it still has Intent. But again, we have very little on it.

I don't recall anything canonical showing fain as toxic, isn't that mostly Dragonsteel Prime and The Traveler stuff at the moment? And yes, he probably just forged a Connection. I jus think it would make sense if it was about him taking in the Investiture, as well. But taking it in can make a Connection in of itself. What I do wonder though, is how exactly AonDor works outside of Sel, we don't fully understand how that works yet. There really isn't Dor to connect to when it is that far away (as you must remember, it is in the Cognitive Realm, not Spiritual, so distance matters). Definitely excited for answers on that. Some one definitely needs to ask how they power it next time we get a chance to ask Brandon questions. With Shay she had a bottle of Dor, which would explain what happened there. But with Hoid and Riina, that is much stranger. Maybe between TLM and TotES somebody, or some people, took up the Shards and forced them back into the Spiritual Realm. As Hoid when telling the story didn't mention anything about AonDor outside of Sel being strange, so it seems like that would be relatively common knowledge amongst Worldhoppers. And we also know the Elantris Trilogy being important to the whole Cosmere, and the Three Pillars of the Cosmere are based around those that deal with the Shards the most, and he said it would be necessary to write it by Era 3. So... maybe it is due to them being put back into the SR, thus geographic limitations are erased. That could explain it. Also, for some reason the Skaze want Hoid to be an Elantrian, or want some Elantrian on their side, as they talked about "You promised us you would become an Elantrian", and seemed kinda pissed at him not becoming one. So, wonder what is going on there.

I am very curious on what exactly it is. A lot of the foreshadowing is obvious (as in, obvious how he can fit it in, not that it is obvious foreshadowing), but the way he says "very hard for others to do" makes me very curious of what exactly he means.

That could be a thing, yeah. We do know BAM messed up a lot. I wonder what she is. My theory is a previous corrupted Sibling, that is to say, a corrupted Splinter of Honor and Cultivation. That would explain connection to Spren and Fused, and the almost, friendly I guess, way that the Heralds talk about BAM. The theory on her being of Honor and Cultivation comes from looking at the linguistics of her name. Mishram is close to Mishim, the moon of Cultivation. Adoda means light. Forgot the rest. Think Mishram can be seen as Mishim + Merem (Alethi for Honor), iirc. Brandon did say it was a good theory

We know that ancient Fabrials were literally just Spren manifesting physically as a device, just like what is shown in Yumi. Your quote being one of the things about it. Another being how the Soulcasters are literally just Spren. What is interesting, is that the transformation for Hijo is temporary (thus easier to convince), while Spren are permeant. Wonder what makes them different.

So, from this, I went and read the epilogue a few times and I think I know what happened. I believe that when he laid in the Perpendicularity, he did actually become Invested by the Dor. But he didn't become an Elantrian as it kinda just, sat around inside of him and did nothing. It is due to this that once he was chosen by Riina as an Elantrian, he instantly became one. The Investiture was already there and just needed to be told what to do. This I feel would explain everything perfectly. It also suggests that Dor Investiture doesn't really do anything when one takes it into themselves, and that the effect of becoming an Elantrian requires some special will and Connection to demand it to change ones body. Also, in the epilogue as well, he talked about eating "a purple frog-like creature with one or two extra legs" We know that Fain have 6 limbs, so I think this frog is likely a fain creature. Not that important, just something I noticed.

I do wonder what exactly that one transparent sea was, they were very clear to point out how strange it was, so I doubt it is just some normal CR fluid.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood, my apologies.

He actually said it was to make the planet look directly created and more artificial, but with an underlying pattern. So he did a 2-D cross-section of a 4D Julia Set. The Lost Metal also showed what it looks like. But we haven't ever seen what it truly looks like in-between. Secret History showed more like, the edge of the subastral, rather than the true in-between space. No, it is basically confirmed it isn't, as Yolen has been described as hidden by Silverlight people, and we know that the map is present in Silverlight. So I doubt that it is from Yolen. And on the time between SA5 and SA6, Brandon kinda can't decide. He has been swapping between 10 and 15 a lot, says it would be one of the two.

The Expanses on the Shadesmar map are all meant to be other planets (or, well, their Subastrals to be exact) Expanse of the Vapors is Scadrial (100% confirmed) Expanse of the Densities is Sel (100% confimred) Expanse of Vibrance is Nalthis (not confirmed, but pretty obvious) Expanse of the Broken Sky being Taldain comes from when you put the Shadesmar map on the Cosmere map, and rotate it so they line up, Broken Sky lines up with Taldain. You can also observe that all the planets in the expanses are closely involved with Roshar and the plot, and the only other planet besides Scadrial, Sel, and Nalthis that is very relevant, Taldain, with its sand and all the talk of Autonomy in the books. Also, I do like your theory of how Autonomy and Odium work together. As we know they worked together enough to allow Odium to double-cross them. And that explanation of how does make sense. I like it.