Firesong

Actually, the current idea I see is that it does effect mass (Also, weight is literally just mass and gravity, what you said is a contradiction), with him talking about outside of the work about it dealing with the Higgs Field. And we know it is possible to change between states, so, I feel that it is definitely about mass, not weight. He appears to be leaning more towards it being a change in mass and people are just misunderstanding things. This also ties into the way it works with conservation of momentum, and drag slowing him down when he lowers his mass too much. Which, as I understand it, would not really effect those parts. Given mass is the actually mass of the object, weight is the force exerted towards the centre of gravity. So, the fact that it effects drag and momentum is further proof of it being a matter of mass, not weight.

I am working on making an updated page using information from the SA5 Prologue on a personal user page (I have it marked for SA5 Prologue Spoilers in the name). I know that there is a way to put code in that makes it not show up in any category pages, how exactly would I go about doing that? I don't want to spoil anyone, but I also want to structure the page for when the book eventually releases, and for my own entertainment. So, basically, what codes keep the page more hidden?

I mean, that is actually exactly what we were discussing on this very thread. That the Fools are Inverses of the Heralds, and we know the Herald's insanity makes them manifest the inverse of their attributes.

On this, while Ideals are partially personalized to an extent (especially Lightweavers, which are basically 100% personalized), we also have to find an Ideal that could be general for all Windrunners. I feel "I will protect me from myself", while it is very much fitting for Kaladin, I don't feel it would be general enough for Windrunners. Protecting all people is basically something already dealt with in the Third Ideal, which was protecting even those that you hate. If we analyze each Ideal Second Ideal: Vowing to protect the defenceless Third Ideal: Protecting even those that you hate, it is based around protecting people despite your own feelings on them Forth Ideal: Still choosing to protect people even while knowing that you won't always succeed and get the satisfaction of succeeding in it. It is protection for the sake of it being the right thing to do. Each one is about a more and more selfless form of protection, moving it further and further away from protection for the sake of yourself, and into doing it simply due to the fact it is the right thing to do. Looking at the Fifth Ideal of Skybreakers being becoming Law, the most extreme form of the Ideals beforehand, it is probably some form of full devotion to protection. Not sure how exactly that would manifest, though.

Well, he said mentioned, and we have indeed had all 10 mentioned. Seeing them is a different story, he himself said "you've seen a number" as being different from the mention. But yes, Liss is definitely someone important. And also, definitely not Chana, we are like 99.9% sure on who Chana is. But Paliah or Vev are possible.

Hmmm... perhaps. But he also said we haven't seen Vedel during an Oathbringer sigining. But he could mean we haven't knowingly seen her. It was a FanX thing, not an Oathbringer signing.

I actually should have already thought of that, yeah. It is kind of obvious in retrospect. True, this does work out. Dilid being the Sixth Fool and being Shalash makes sense, as Kaladin invoked the Sixth Fool concerning Lirin just, wanting to do nothing and hope things got better. Which is pretty Sisyphean. Dilid, Shalash, and Lirin also all share attributes of deluding themselves. So this would be Vedelev. Though I am not exactly sure what that would mean. She is loving, so maybe it means expecting the worst of others (not properly loving them)? We don't really see how her inverted attributes manifest, given she is one of the few Heralds we have seen literally nothing of. We have seen Jezrien, Nale, Chanarach (according to very likely theories), Shalash, Battar, Kalak, Taln, and Ishar. We haven't seen Paliah or Vedel. I wonder if that is due to something special happening with them, if we already saw them but haven't been told (I know the Paliah WoB, I just highly doubt it is still true as Brandon has been giving only RAFOs, he said a female Herald has been influencing Taravangian, and that was Battar, and there is no actual record of the Paliah WoB), or if he simply hasn't found a place to fit them in yet. This would be Battar. Not sure exactly how this would connect, maybe calling it unwise? We don't really see her inverted attributes manifest, unless her trusting Taravangian enough to work with him for so long as an inversion of her being wise and careful, as she fell for a trick and inadvertently helped him become Odium.

We know that each Fool is essentially an inverse of one of the Heralds So, it makes me wonder which of the fools we know are the inverse of what Herald. I think Cabine is likely Taln, who is Dependable, but it could also be Jezrien, who is a Protecting and Leading, which are very non-childlike attributes. Eshu is either Paliah or Battar. Knowledge and Wisdom respectively. Not sure about Dilid. We have ideas of some others, but not names I am mostly leaving this post as I want to work with others to try and work out what fool is associated with each Herald.

Sure, go on ahead. I don't mind.

I had a dream on what Valor's planet would be like, it isn't well fleshed out, but I thought I would bring it up here. The entire planet is shrouded in darkness (not like Komashi exactly, a more natural darkness which can be dispelled with light) that cannot be seen through. The entire planet is also covered in this emotional manipulation field that greatly intensifies any feelings of fear, paranoia, and cowardice. That if you are not extremely brave, you would be absolutely crippled in terror. The only light comes from glowing crimson splinters/spren which fly through the dark, and are vaguely spherical. They are aggressive and can kill you. You can see a line of Investiture being traced as they float through the air, which slowly fade over time. The light given off from the path is also far less than the light from the spren itself. When lit up, the ground is grey and black, and covered in cracks and cliff faces and unique ecology of these like, leafless tree-like plants. (If you have played Tears of the Kingdom, think the Depths in that game, but not exactly, just similar) While the atmosphere isn't suffocating, it is relatively stiff and makes breathing a bit hard. The planet was given a name in my dream, but I forgot what the name was. Also, iirc, it was more like Threnody in that it was all from a past presence rather than a current presence. The was also a second planet in the system, I don't know anything about it. But I did see a name for it, I also forgot that name. That is all I can remember from the dream.

I will say we at least have a little. We know that they claim themselves to be equal or superior to Shards, even to Adonalsium itself. But on what Shards think of them, yeah, we have nothing. My headcanon is that they aren't fans, but we don't really know that for sure.

Yes, you're right, my apologies.

Ah, yeah, I forgot to take into account all the different ways a Shard can fuse. Also, oh my, 10^10^14. I did the math, got 1.849669091121656*10^588 or 1.454313010902972*10^963, depending on if order matters.

How is it slander? I like her as a character, I just don't think don't think she is emotionally mature enough in human relationships to engage with Kaladin in that manner. And on Black and White Morality and maturity, it literally is a sign of maturity. Look at Piaget's or Kohlberg's theory of moral development, moral development is seen as going through various stages. From my observations, Syl is more in a stage of Heteronomous Morality than in one of Autonomous Morality. "It is bad as I was told as such.", and takes that further to mean "those that do this are bad" and that "bad is not good". She doesn't really understand how someone can be more than one shade. To further this argument, in Heteronomous Morality, one bases morality on egocentric viewpoint and typically overly simplistic principles. Whilst Autonomous Morality sees morals as varying between peoples, and tends to lead to the development of a more complex moral compass, this is Moral Relativism, and she doesn't have her sense of moral relativism fully developed. She, as I said before, shows confusion at the idea of moral complexity in those she deems as evil. This is due to the fact that In the Kohlberg model, she is a bit more developed, being closer to Stage 4 (I disagree with the separation of 5 and 6 into a post-conventional grouping, as while more abstract, I feel that most people as they develop are able to learn about laws and morals are moreso social contracts that rigid edicts, and that they can differ between people). Stage 4 is defined by "laws, dicta, and social conventions because of their importance in maintaining a functioning society", Kohlberg himself describes this as being an adult stage and the highest conventional stage, but I, as stated before, disagree with this interpretation due to my own observations of others. But my feelings upon the minutia of Kohlberg's theory of moral development isn't exactly relevant to what I am trying to get across. Though, as you said, she does show a growth in her moral compass as the story goes on. But she still remains confused by ideas of something being more than black and white. The reason for this moral development can be sourced in the socialization she experiences. This can be traced to the theories of B.F Skinner, who proposed that the moral development of the self comes from the response of the ego to external reinforcement contingencies. Which we see in the work itself, she responds to human interaction and new experiences (reinforcement contingencies) and begins to develop due to it. It is growth, that much I admit, but it is not complete growth. When we look at her history, we can see a lack of such socialization before her bond with Kaladin. She bonded with Relador shortly after her creation, and was sent into a deep millennium-long slumber after the first battle. After being fond much later, she was essentially kept solitary and in one place until she escaped and bonded with Kaladin. This lack of socialization explains her lack of moral and psychological development. Her quick fall into slumber, and the overprotectiveness of the Stormfather and Honorspren, left her developmentally stunted. She was the untouchable ancient daughter, lost for a thousand years, and then hidden away and guarded in a city. She never truly got the socialization required for her to undergo development. This can also be observed in her social interactions, looking at it through the psychoanalytic lens of Erik Erikson, she fits pretty neatly into Stage 4. She begins to learn more about the world and try to complete tasks, and gains pride and self-esteem through social interactions and praise for the completion of said tasks. Gaining praise and approval is in fact one of the most important factors in ones interactions during this stage of psychosocial development. It is also in this stage that they begin spreading out more into a peer group, and have that group be an important source of identity and self esteem. We can see that Syl has begun to spread out and interact with more people, and she tries her best to get praise from them in order to boost her self-esteem. We can see this is one of her primary motivators. This, I feel, is a stage that we actually observe her entering over the course of the books, as before this, she was far less developed and took initiative and action far less. This stage is experienced primarily between 5 and 12. We also see she carries over an aspect of Stage 3, with her exploration. We can see some parts of Stage 3 at the beginning of the book, the question in which is "Is it Okay for Me to Do, Move, and Act?", she shows far more hesitance in everything she does, due to a mix of a lower level of development in self-esteem, and by her being afraid of getting in trouble. She is learning basic autonomy and learning basic facts about the world around her. It even took her a while to develop enough confidence in her actions to actually go through and begin talking to Kaladin. As she goes on in this stage, she begins to take initiative more in the transitory state between 3 and 4, and eventually does manage to enter 4 and begin to form more of her own identity and become more developed as a person. Here is an example of Syl commenting upon her development from Stage 3 and through Stage 4. Becoming more confident in herself and her actions, and thus allowing herself more autonomy. I feel this recognition of her own growth, and the capacity to choose and change, is planting to stages for her entry into Stage 5, "Who Am I and What Can I Be?" It is a combination of all stages before, mixed with an anticipation for further growth. The individuals who go through this stage "are confronted by the need to re-establish boundaries for themselves and to do this in the face of an often potentially hostile world", this, I feel, defines the current Syl perfectly. Stage 5 is also often packaged with a beginning of the true formation of an independent identity and sense of self, often manifested as a rebellion against that which they are made to do, as in choosing they explore themselves, and thus define and establish themselves as an independent entity from parents and authority figures. Once again, "I was deciding. Not simply doing what I was made to, but doing what I wanted to." I feel as we go on she is going to be looking more into herself and who she is as a person, and thus allowing herself to grow even further. One way in which she is more developed, as we can observe, is in trauma response. She shows a resilience to mental trauma that is greater than her development in other categories would suggest. This, I feel however, is tied pretty closely with her stage of moral development, wherein she sees the other side as completely irredeemably evil and incapable of doing good, and therefore the guilt of an action would weight less upon her; furthermore, she gains the appreciation of others for helping Kaladin in the fight, and therefore it satiates her desire for praise and approval which she uses to develop her sense of self-esteem and confidence. I love her as a character, I just do feel she is stunted in various ways due to her past, and I am happy to observe her growth across the books. On WoBs about this point Both essentially refer to her as a child developing and learning more about herself. Like my interpretation suggests. Edit: Sorry for the text wall, I just wanted to explain my perspective on the matter. I feel rather tired after writing all of that, need to get off of the computer for a bit.

Oh! My bad, I misunderstood what you meant. But as we understand it, the system names aren't based around what is most Invested, it is which is most important. That just usually comes out to be the most Invested one. But you could be right, yeah.

No, we know it isn't. Torio and Nagadan both are nothing like Ashyn, and Brandon said they were new planets. The description of UTol, despite the presence of a lot of water, does not exactly fit with Roshar either. We also are told UTol and Komashi are in a binary system, which is not what we observe of Roshar and Ashyn. So we can be definitively sure that they are in a different system than Roshar and Ashyn.

Iirc, Brandon said he wanted to avoid it as that has kind of just become a trope. But I may be wrong. Wheel of Time, Lord of the Rings, Shannara, Inheritance Cycle (iirc), amongst others. I like it when done well (absolutely adore how Xenoblade does it), but it is pretty trope-y. One reason I know he did it is just, the cosmere is a specific star cluster, to put Earth randomly in it doesn't really work as it would mess a lot up.

Yeah, that feels like it would fit. Given I am pretty sure the important things start earliest in Urithiru, and then Emul has the most important ending. So yeah, I feel that order makes logical sense. Thanks for your input, I'll just do that when I start working on it. (not today, it is getting late and I am getting tired, but I will try to start tomorrow)

They actively say multiple times Syl is younger in mind than basically any other Honorspren. I added a quote that depicted this. And it is more complex than just a 100% thing. In terms of the things that are important for relationships and consent; she is a child in those capacities. And even in a few other capacities, such as her moral reasoning, which is depicted as very underdeveloped, with things more complicated than a pure black and white confusing her. And in the factor of praise, it is the way that she goes about it. Which feels far more based around a developing individual looking for affirmation. It is a collection of factors working together. I just get the feeling from reading (and I have read all four main books and the novellas), that she is overall not mature enough for a relationship with Kaladin, despite her being a bit more developed in a few specific areas. And I don't get why you are so passionate on saying how the ship is fine? Like, Syl is very much not written as an adult.

This is something that has been bothering me for a bit, how would we deal with RoW on the True Desolation timeline? Given it had three major events happening at one time, the Occupation of Urithiru, the Expedition to Emul, and the Expedition to Lasting Integrity. All three are very important in the True Desolation, but I am not sure how to best format them. As putting them in one section would be a nonsensical mess, but making them separate would make us have to use a lot of "meanwhiles", and it would kinda look like it is meant to be chronological. So, what do all of yous think about how it should all be structured?

Nah, its not your fault at all. I just misunderstood your first message, which led to this. You don't have to apologize at all.

Yeah, a bunch of Earth creatures exist in the cosmere, just because they do. Like a lot of fantasy. Scadrial, Nalthis, half of Yolen, and Sel are all rather Earth-like. Roshar is one of the more divergent planets in ecology. And also, yeah, Brandon said that Earth is not in the cosmere and never will be. This is such a strong factor that even books written to be in the cosmere were removed due to including Earth, like Rithmatist.

Yeah, we don't fully understand that dagger yet, like, we know how it uses Raysium to siphon Investiture into a gem. But the alloy being specified makes me think it has some importance to the way it works.

UTol is the planet that is visible through the Shroud. The one that they went to with the ship. Household was an assumption due to the fact that Hoid talked about the planet as if the audience would obviously be familiar with it, even saying it was something they should know. Implying it is very well known amongst interplanetary travelers (not saying Worldhoppers as in the era the story takes place, physical space travel exists as well)

No need for such aggression. Such aggression and ad hominid attacks are not suitable for this forum. And while I don't mean any disrespect, I feel we haven't read the same book if you think she has the mental age of an adult. She has a few moments of more maturity, but is ultimately a child. Her lack of mental maturity is lampshaded by the work. She has difficulty understanding more complex morals, is obsessed with praise in a very child-like way. When she manifests her clothing has a "girlish cut". Brandon says he in various ways based on on his kid. For a while she had a very simplistic view on emotions and how to deal with depression and trauma in others, etc.