CognitiveShadow

I get that he calls himself that, but I understood it to be an inherent part of Odium (the shard) and the reason why it's so hard to control. I personally don't think that his boon/curse is still impacting him. I just think Cultivation gave him that specific set up so that she could get a new vessel who might be more well equipped/practiced in managing a divided brain. We do see Ishar as a bondsmith unchained reach out and start to take away Dalinar's bond with the Stormfather against his will. It would have worked too, but Szeth stepped in with Nightblood and severed the connection being forged. I would assume the same principle holds for a Shard, but maybe they are more protected due to the whole infinite investiture thing... But maybe if there are 3 unchained bondsmiths? Dalinar, Navani, and Kaladin (Wind)? Not to mention that Dalinar is a bondsmith who is bonded to Honor's cognitive shadow - that might help make this feasible Plus, I view it more like the powers being merged together as one (just like Navani did with the stormlight and voidlight, creating warlight). And then you just have a new shard with a new intent (War?) which I think would be very well aligned with either Dalinar or Taravangian. And I think it's more likely to go to Taravangian just cause I think that would turn him into a great big-bad-villian for the foreseeable future. Between tWar and Autonomy there's some solid danger out there. I think that would make sense. Like maybe she was planning to absorb the other two shards once they are bonded, but maybe something goes wrong and Taravangian gets the upper hand so he maintains control of the merged shard? I could then see him splintering Cultivation afterwards too

WOW. This got me thinking. Yes, what if it goes like this: Kaladin or Szeth swear a new ideal and 'heal' Ishar at least temporarily. He teaches them them a bondsmith unchained could forge a Connection between 2 shards Dalinar enters the spiritual realm and learns a bunch of stuff, somehow gets a hold of Honor's power Kaladin bonds the Wind and becomes an OG bondsmith (optional, not necessary for this storyline), goes back to the tower just in time to find Dalinar in a struggle against tOdium and/or tOdium's champion and tells him about the things they learned from Ishar Dalinar forges a connection between Honor's power and tOdium's power, merging them together as one, calling the combination 'War'. I don't know what the combination should be called, but having their light called warlight seems like a fair enough bit of foreshadowing if this is what happens It turns out this is what was meant by 'unite them' all along: Unite the shards, specifically the powers/investiture to create a new intent Maybe what actually happend to Honor was that he self sacrificed, and latched his cognitive shadow to the Stormfather, expecting to be able to maintain his sanity and control, but it was a more traumatic experience for him that resulted in a merging of their conciousness But originally Honor's plan was to leave his power available so that a bondsmith (that he would bond as the Stormfather) would be able to connect his power with Odium and therefore balance out the wrath/anger with some oaths and principles Essentially trying to sacrifice himself in order to permanently change the extremely dangerous force of Odium? I kind of like the track of thought here, but I suppose it is very similar to the situation with Preservation and Ruin - good god sacrifices self to help take out the bad god and merge their powers together, removing the threat of the bad god. So maybe things don't work out great for the heroes here... So, what if the original plan was to merge all 3 together and Cultivation was planning to give up her power at just the right moment so it can be added, providing at least a desire to nurture and add life to the new shard. But instead only Honor and Odium are bonded (for reasons we don't know yet - maybe Cultivation backs out last second or maybe is prevented from it somehow) This allows Taravangian to have 2 shards combined and with a much more managable intent. So he'd be less chaotic and destructive, but maybe even more dangerous. If it truly does become the 'War' shard, he would be driven to go fight and conquer constantly. Maybe part of the process of Dalinar accessing the power of Honor means he technically dies, so he loses the contest of champions. So, all in all, the end of the book has tOdium turned into the shard of "War" and the ruler of all of Roshar except maybe one or two spots if they win any of the battles ahead of the contest...? That would make it quite different from Mistborn. Plus Dalinar would be coming back as a fused - we would have bondsmith Dalinar, subject to Taravangian as the god of war who is hell bent on taking over the cosmere and destroying all the other shards.... Love this thought. I've been trying to figure out what it could mean for the Night to 'leave'... the Night brigade sounds pretty darn interesting now! Maybe the Night found someone new to bond out in the cosmere and they started their own thing My reading of Taravangian as Odium is not that he still has the curse/boon stuff from Cultivation. I think she gave him that while he was a mortal to help prepare him for the challenging state of holding the shard of Odium. That she was trying to replicate that feeling of a divide between logic and feelings since that is what the shard does to the vessel. So I don't think those parts of him can be bonded together without adding in something like the shard of Honor to fill in the gaps. Kind of poetic if you think about it - like how the nahel bond fills in the gaps of broken people? I believe we've seen that metaphor

After reading the epigraph today about Nohadon talking about abdicating his throne, I think that was foreshadowing for Dalinar. He's probably going to get really close to taking the power, or maybe he does take it but then releases it or something?

From the quote below (chapter 3 epigraph, quoting the in-world wind and truth), my understanding was that the Wind likely fell into the background as the general population focused more on the highstorm vs the Wind in general. So the Stormfather had more cognitive influence or was influenced more by the people living on the planet. So it seems like the wind might have slipped back out of significance and with fewer interactions, but I also wonder if there was some form of hiding for their protection and/or some active suppression by Rayse-Odium. But regardless, I agree that the Wind and the Stone are likely at least present on Roshar still But for the Stone interaction with Venli - I always read that interaction as more of a direct/individual stone communication. The same way Shallan interacted with the wind's pleasure or a stick for soulcasting. I thought Venli just spoke to the stones that she was trying to shape/change/transform. Kind of like how Kaladin can also interact with windspren or have windspren as armor, but the way the Wind warps around him or he becomes one with the Wind in battle is different and a more direct interaction with the entity. Does that make sense? Or is there a WoB or something that clarifies this that I'm missing? I also found it interesting the the Night left, but Cultivation made a new being out of the Night's essence, presumably meaning the Nightwatcher since they are made from the Night. I wonder where the Night went though and what it means to 'leave'?

OK, so. Stones, Wind, and Night were the three forces, spren of Adonalsium? The Sibling was formed from the Stone, the sibling of the Wind and Night, about 6000 years ago The Nightwatcher came from the Night Stormfather came from the Wind (though the wind was 'so very different' when the Sibling was young), soon before the Sibling was formed BONDSMITHS USED TO BOND DIRECTLY TO THE 3 FORCES! Instead of the more modern spren What do we think the Night was? - 'Few liked her or even spoke over her, Cultivation replaced her with a being of some of the same essence. A new creature, unconnected to anyone's perception'... what does this mean? Does this mean that the Nightwatcher was formed by cultivation using the same essence of the Night who had left? What does it mean for the Night to 'leave'? Is this similar to the epigraphs for Wind and Truth that indicate the Wind will 'vanish'? So, does this mean that Kaladin is going to become an OG bondsmith and bond the wind? and then step up and take over as Dalinar's champion after Dalinar ascends to Honor?

I’ve been re-reading the stormlight archive, but I kicked it off after reading the first few released WaT chapters. So I’ve been keeping an eye out for stuff that ties in with those chapters. Anyway, there are a few things standing out to me now that I thought I’d just share below: 1. obviously, so many instances of the Wind being weird and warping or wrapping around Kaladin, like he is one with the wind itself, etc. So curious to see how that stuff develops. But one instance in particular: when Kaladin is in the slave wagon and crushes up his poisonous leaves, I noticed that the wind came through and blew the leaves away. It seemed like it could have been the Wind nudging him in a different direction? Or just coincidence? 2. Adolin talking to Maya just has so much more meaning ever since RoW. But I noticed a pov section for Adolin where he describes learning from Zahel to mentally send instructions to his shardblade about what he wants it to do…. Which makes so much sense obviously knowing that the sword is Maya and that clearly had to help bond them. That intentional instruction has to be part of his ability to throw the her accurately too. 3. Shallan talking to Tin. When Tin gives her the lecture about how to be a con artist, she says something like “the lies are just that - lies. They aren’t real and they never can be real. This might be the hardest thing you have to learn.” That hit hard knowing that Shallan has illusions and lies she tells herself about her past, and she tries to make them real. But her whole growth is all about accepting that her lies can’t be real. She has to admit she killed her parents, face those realities, etc. 3. I’ve theorized about rock maybe being bonded to the “Stone” deity that might counter the Wind. But do we think it’s possible Taln is bonded to the Stone? I mean he is a stoneward, and he is called stone sinew, and other names like that. Maybe that’s part of how he didn’t break, because of his bond and connection to the Stone, which lends him strength?

I’ve always thought that would be cool hit I just can’t see any way to make it make sense in the story

I think this quote from the chapter 1 of WaT explains exactly why the break is different. I'd also call out that Adolin is still able to help Maya recover, and he is not the original knight that broke her oaths. Pattern explains in detail here:

But don’t we know that the current bond with Shallan and Testament is broken in a way quite different from the radiants during the recreance? I thought her bond was not quite severed *because* she was a child who didn’t really know what she was doing so it wasn’t as much of a clean and intentional break. You could say Chana put herself into her child’s headspace when she broke the bond, but still it’s just trying too hard to make it happen. The simplest explanation is the already surprising (to most people) plot twist that the mother Shallan killed was a herald which kicked off the desolation.

Given all of this, did Odium even need to make a deal? Couldn't Rayse have just proceeded with this plan and avoided a contest of champions? tOdium has dalinar and team on their heels, and their only hope is to try and survive long enough for the contest of champions to happen. Seems to me like Odium could have just kept to the plan and hit them with these attacks even after losing the tower?

YES! This was exactly what I thought too. It seemed like everything we saw was part of a very complex process that he was intimately familiar with. He was going through his stored investiture, testing his various magical abilities, and apparently even measuring everything out to calculate how many minutes of memories were missing and which ones they were. It reminded me of Nomad in Sunlit Man having Aux check his investiture levels - how many BEU's etc. This seemed like Hoid's own version of that.

This is a great breakdown! I’d also add that Odium plans to bring back Dalinar as a fused if Dalinar dies, so even if Adolin did “kill” his father he could be put at ease a little bit knowing that Dalinar will still be coming back and Adolin won’t actually lose his father. Plus, Shallan killed her dad so I guess it could be a bonding thing for them too? lol

Is there a world where Odium also promises to fully restore and heal Maya as well? I could see TOdium trying to establish that he is the new person who took over the shard, and that he is not the bad guy from before. Maybe with promises like healing Maya and the rest of the dead eyes, promising to end the war and bring all of Roshar together under one banner, and even bringing back his father from the dead (as a fused, which he already plans to do per the agreement) would be enough to push Adolin to accept. Especially if there is a threat to Shallan that his accepting of the position will help prevent or stop.

Venli speaking to “stone” is more akin to Shallan speaking to a stick and urging it to change. That’s not communication with a spren or a higher being, it’s communication with a personalization of a particular object. She was speaking to the local stone and encouraging it to use her investiture to make changes. Kaladin is being contacted by a specific entity / god / ancient spren of Adonalsium. This is confirmed. Many of us suspect there is a similar counterpart that could be referred to as Stone. How does Kaladin ascend to the Wind though? Isn’t it just an ancient spren that has been worshipped in the past as a god? Maybe he can bond with the Wind and become a new kind of bondsmith or something? I personally suspect that the Stone entity is hiding in the Horneater peaks and that Rock may have made contact with it previously and have a similar proto-bond situation like Kaladin with the Wind.

Ok, in the thread about this week's pre-released chapters, someone mentioned Rock maybe having some kind of bond or protobond with ancient gods or spren. I looked into it and realized I had totally missed the weirdness of Rock being able to draw a shardbow without shard plate and why he would refuse to speak of it. His daughter, Cord, speaks about how he was able to draw the Bow of Hours and how he was 'strengthened by spren' to do so. When asked about it, he declined to speak on the topic. In the other post, we were discussing the possiblity of Kaladin bonding with the Wind. Anyway, without further ado (pun not intended but definitely worth highlighting now that I think about it), here is where my theorizing brain is going. Let me know how wrong I am. Did Rock perhaps discover and connect with the ancient god/spren that is responsible for the belief that stone should not be walked on because it is sacred? Is this a similar type of being that the Wind is - an ancient spren of Adonalsium that has avoided enlightenment/corruption so far? Rock is an interesting name for him to go by if this is the case, and I could see him choosing it specifically because of that connection. He also tells the story of the ancient gods that helped his people: the waters, the mountain (stone?), and the trees. I wonder if that ancient spren has found a home in the mountains of Rock's homeland, and part of his backstory includes discovering that god and swearing to protect it's secret location. He is definitely tight lipped about it. I'm aware that Venli speaks to the stone when she is doing her surges and shaping the stone, but that seems to be more similar to the response that one gets when soul-casting and convincing something to change. Maybe there is a more all-encompassing spren/being that is 'The Stone' and maybe that being has had to retreat to a place of safety in the horneater peaks, hiding in the shadow of Cultivation's perpendicularity? Or being protected by Cultivation perhaps? Anyway, maybe Rock has a bond with the Stone and he is able to draw upon power from that ancient spren in times of need - like when he has to draw a shardbow without using shardplate in order to shoot someone who swallowed an unmade and is trying to kill his friend. And maybe (as suggested by @Oltux72 on the other thread - shoutout for your comment and sending me down a rabbit hole about Rock and his past) Kaladin is going to go find the Wind and do something similar. We've seen how weird double bonds are now with Shallan, and that's with 2 cryptics. An honorspren bond and a bond with the Wind who is said to also be of Honor would be a wild situation. Also if any of this stuff is already confirmed or if we know its confirmed to be wrong, feel free to let me know haha can't wait to actually get this whole book and be able to find out what is going to happen!!

I have so many thoughts here and I don't know where to start lol all I know is I really like the way this theorizing is going and I'm trying to think about what implications there could be for this book and the rest of the cosmere. I'm currently wondering if there is any way that Kaladin learns some things from Ishar about the shards (and the ancient / old spren who were viewed as gods too) and their intentions, motivations, and the history of their interactions. I'm personally unclear on the timelines of which shards were worshipped by who at what times and why. Maybe Kaladin learns some things after swearing the 5th ideal (becoming the embodiment of honor in some way?) that make him feel honor-bound to act in a different way from how he was acting before. Any chance of Kaladin becoming Odium's champion by the end of the book? Maybe he agrees to be Odium's champion in exchange for promises from Odium like freeing the Wind, protecting rosharans of all kind should he win, or things like that? If you think about it, even if Kaladin became Odium's champion and then killed Dalinar, Dalinar would come back as a fused. So it wouldn't be like permanently killing him I suppose haha just trying to think of how Odium could potentially convince him it was for the greater good and would bring the most overall protection by uniting all of Roshar under one shard or something. Probably waaaay out of left field here with the theorizing, but just excited to see what happens.

I agree with this. I think that Cultivation's gift helped to train Taravangian on how to manage an intense conflict of emotions and logic, especially when there is powerful imbalance between the two. I don't think there is still any lingering magical impact or active effect on Taravangian from that boon/curse, but I do think it helped change who he was over time as a mortal and wired him to process things certain ways. But it does not look like her experiment was a success (of course knowing her, this could all be part of her even longer-term long-term plan lol)

Fun thoughts! I didn't know Rock had a bond or protobond - is that how he can see spren? Do we have more details on this somewhere? Also, random thought as I was thinking back to Rock a bit..... any chance he takes up Honor at some point? I mean he is literally going back of his own volition to face the music after doing the honorable thing in the moment (saving a friend) at the expense of breaking a vow. That seems like peak Honor qualities - valuing a vow almost above all else, but still being willing to break that vow at your own peril in order to save a friend who previously saved your life.

You mean he might bond the Wind and become a new kind of bondsmith in some way? I think the current consensus is that the Wind is an old spren of Adonalsium that has not been 'enlightened/corrupted' the way others may have been (Sibling, Stormfather, Unmade, etc.?). Lots of speculation, but I don't see the Wind working as a new shard that Kaladin could take up. Just something he could help protect in some ways and maybe bond to. Which I think would be a better ending to the book though since we did already have Harmon in mistborn

Maybe she sees herself as a gardener and the bulk of her actions tend to be "against" people but for their better long term good? Like pruning a plant in the right way, cutting back parts that will let more fruit grow and help other parts of the plant grow in the desired way? So she isn't really about just letting things run wild and live so much as she is trying to cultivate and shape things over time? That would line up with the long game / darwinian approach, and could help explain her use of the term 'against' maybe?

I personally haven't read it as having his boon/curse continue on after taking up Odium. It seems to me that it is just the nature of holding the shard of Odium - he has to feel all of the emotions and passion and pain of all those people, and yet he still has the more logical side of him that can think separately from those feelings. I think it was more so that Cultivation was trying to prepare him for being able to handle the shard by giving him a boon that would train him to balance emotions and logic in a particular way. So to me, it's more that he learned from the boon/curse and that impacted how he functioned in a major way, but I don't think he still has a lasting magical effect or active influence on him from Cultivation's boon/curse. He's just been trained to think of himself in those two parts, and the Odium shard in particular brings a strong conflict of those two core human attributes. Cultivation was trying to influence him leading up to taking the shard, but I don't think she could continue to have an active impact, just residual effects from how the boon/curse changed who he was/would become as a mortal.

When Odium says he should be able to help them, to save them, Cultivation says: To me that reads as a direct response to him wanting to heal the child, and being told that he can't have any direct impact on people unless they are fully given to him. His later response futher supports that in my opinion, as he specifies that he needs them to be fully his and he has to be allowed to intervene. What is interesting to me here, is that they have to be "given" to him. Does he need approval from Honor or Cultivation? Or is it simply speaking to the individual giving themselves to Odium? Like how Moash has to allow Odium to help him take away his pain? Yes! Which begs even more of the question - why did Kaladin have glowing gold and red eyes when fighting the 'defeated one' in RoW? Was he at his peak passion in that moment? He actually does seem to have a LOT of overlap for what we now know of Odium's shard, and of course he has always had his Honor connection that has been quite obvious and upfront. Could we be setting up for yet another shard combination, with Kaladin taking up both Honor and Odium?

I actually meant the opposite: that I think Brandon is great at making the words vanish off the page. I’m of the opinion that these chapters are great and interesting so far. So what I was trying to say is that I don’t understand why people are complaining. These chapters are all set up for the rest of the book, I imagine things will happen later in the book that make any confusing or strange things tie in well and make sense. So I’m just excited to read the rest!

Personally I don't see it, but I'm also not a literary expert or snob or anything so maybe I have low standards lol. And to be honest, maybe I'm the perfect target audience because to me the main thing I'm looking for in a fantasy and/or sci-fi series is having the words just vanish off the page and being able to just see it all happening like a movie in my head. And I think Brandon's writing does that pretty darn well. Maybe it's simple and less flowery prose or whatever but I prefer it that way. Plus, hot take: I think Brandon's worldbuilding of the overall cosmere has developed to a point that for me I'm way more interested in just seeing what happens and getting lore drops and merging worlds and things than I am with how well structured the book is. Please just take me from one major plot point to the next, I'm all about that ride. I also think the characters are still developing in cool and exciting and normal ways, and am totally good with Brandon sacrificing writing quality for writing quantity. Haha if it's slightly worse writing but we get more info and books published faster, I'm alllll for it. I just need my cosmere fix on the regular or else I'm left with no option but to explore the other authors out there whose books have felt kind of sub-par to me compared to the cosmere.

I've been having some thoughts here, and there's a process here that I am starting to think I lean towards. So, BAM is trapped in a gemstone and is in the Spiritual Realm... whatever that actually means lol. We don't know much about the Spiritual Realm, but we do know that Shallan is accessing it when she draws on fortune for her inspirational drawings that nudge/encourage people to improve and be better, etc. We are seeing some weird fortune shenanigans. Especially with Shallan. The way she grabs for beads and just keeps happening to get the right ones, and things like that. She even points out that she has no idea what is going on. So my thought is this: what if BAM is using Fortune almost like a radio frequency, trying to ride that out of the Spiritual Realm and thereby connect with whoever she can that happens to be drawing on Fortune in that moment. Of course that makes me think about Hoid and how he has a Fortune thingy that makes him go to where he needs to be without knowing why. So maybe there is something specific about Shallan and her connection to BAM. But she does seem to either be having a lot of lucky things happening around her or be in the process of drawing on Fortune for a drawing when BAM's face shows up. So that face in the beads screaming about destroying the humans could just be an angry radio wave blast that she is sending out into 'nowhere' while she is trapped in a gem floating through space or whatever it looks like there. ALSO - could Odium be corrupting the intended message coming from BAM? Could it be like Ruin corrupting messages from Leras as the mist spirit? Maybe BAM sent out a really hearfelt message with all the answers that the 'good guys' need to save the day, but Odium is making it look like she is dangerous and they should not go looking for her?