C_Vallion

Hi, All! Here is… the tournament chapter. Chapter 5 if following the previous setup. Quite possibly Chapter 1 going forward (I didn’t want to create any panic by just calling it Chapter 1 Rev 3). Mild Language, mild violence (there’s a swordfight?), mild gore (wound and pain descriptions) I think the ongoing questions I’m going to have are going to be related to whether or not any of the information you got in the first chapters feels left out. Most of it probably won’t, except in my detail-loving brain, but there will be a few things down the road that I’m concerned about having to introduce suddenly. We’ll see about them when we get there. In this chapter, my main concern is how Is-‘s character comes across, because her interactions with Ro- are very different from how she acts toward most people. And it tends to bring out the worst in her, because they severely misunderstand each other, and therefore treat each other like obnoxious siblings. It does give her something to want to change at the start, but it also makes her seem immature and childish from the start, which I don’t like. I tried to tie it into the context of her long-term goals and motivations, to seem a less superficial, but I’m not sure if it comes across well or not. And it’s hard to be clear about said long-term goals and motivations when she’s sort of willfully denying her motivations at the start. So I’m trying to figure out how to give a correct picture of her character without making it seem like the worst parts of her character are the norm. Other than that, all feedback is helpful! Thanks!

Can I have a spot for Monday as well? Planning to just jump to the tournament chapter. I think just doing that is going to be a better way of figuring out what actually needs to be introduced before then (if anything). If only I'd done that like six weeks ago...

In many ways, the important part of the room shuffling is that he is not being housed in the main part of the palace at the opening of the story (For reasons), but that he will later have access to some of the things that his mother had left behind. I think without a chapter trying to make something out of the gift trade off and room shuffling, there's far less need for convoluted explanation. So I should be able to deal with it more in passing. But we'll see once we get to that point and unintentionally find new ways to overexplain things. The problem with introducing this one gradually is that it's relevant right up front (especially if I'm cutting out all of the lead-in chapters), and seems like a thing that will create "How is there no one else around? Why does no one notice that this is happening?" sorts of questions. Though I'm probably overthinking some of that. Am definitely trying to get to the heart of the tension faster on the whole story. I just think I spend far too much time and energy both overthinking how much information people need up front and then overexplaining to make things fit. Which is even more frustrating now that I see myself doing it even though I know it's a problem.

General rambling thoughts: I am quite intrigued by the idea of space rally racing, and wonder how it would be organized and run. I don’t know much about rally racing in a normal earth sense, but I’ve watched two seasons of the Drive to Survive Netflix documentary series, so I’m obviously an expert on F1 racing (she says, not really caring anything about cars). I wonder if the speeds and tech of space rally racing would make F1 a closer reference comparison, even if they’re on an open course that would be closer to rally racing. That being said, count me in for a story in a competitive space-rally league. Going in to the story, I was a little confused about the blocking in the ship, because I was expecting a front/back driver/passenger setup instead of the side-by-side setup. Side-by-side makes sense for earth-rally racing since they’re using street legal cars. But I don’t see much reason for any two-passenger ship to be set up for side-by-side seating instead of front/back for aerodynamic reasons. Even for a civilian spacecraft. I’m also skeptical that they would stick two people in the ship if they have reliable wireless communication. Especially when there are obvious safety risks involved for anyone in the ship. Do co-drivers still ride along for the actual race in rally racing in our modern era of wireless communication? If so, I assume that’s just because they’d need a real-time video feed to do their job correctly, with catastrophic consequences if there’s a lag? Trying to think of how that would look with more advanced technology for such things. If real-time video would still be unreliable enough that it would still be safer to have both people in the vehicle, or if more reliable video feed tech would make it safer for the co-driver to navigate remotely. Obviously the story only works if we have the former. But maybe there are different leagues for co-pilots and navigators? Since the internet tells me there are different rally leagues that use only cars from certain eras. Also, I had to ask the internet what a mbira was. Okay. I think that’s the end of my round of rambling thoughts. There might be more as I remember trains of thoughts I had while doing the first read-through. [spoiler alert. Turns out there were more. Oops. But you did ask for everything.] Pg 2: “…she let L’s low voice flow through her…” I assume it’s flow, not follow “shipsuits were especially designed” specially? If anything? I assume most rally race shipsuits would be designed with the same safety features. Also, shipsuits had been designed? Pg 3: “voice of God” curious about what this phrase says about Z’s religious beliefs. Also, I like how her following his directions is almost more muscle memory than listening and processing. It says a lot about their experience racing together. Pg 4: “turning off the entire ship” – from a mechanical design standpoint, an emergency full-shutdown should be a one-button process. Mashing a button to cut power as opposed to fingers flying across panels. You never want to trust your machine operator’s presence of mind to do anything complicated during an emergency. Both from a safety standpoint and a manufacturing-avoiding-being-sued standpoint. It also seems likely that the tech would involve some sort of automated shut-down process or emergency mode that would engage automatically in case of a hull-breach (especially if we’re in non-breathable atmospheres) or a chance of water crossing paths with electricity (a switch to a backup power source that only powers necessary things and isn’t powerful enough to risk harm). For a civilian ship to be altered for racing, some of this might be removed to minimize extra weight, but I assume the organizing structure of the league would require certain things to be kept or replaced with custom options. Good job remembering to cut power, though. Now, back to the story. “hanging to the side…” What’s actually supporting the ship here? How stable is it in its current sideways position? Having some trouble picturing the crash site. Pg 5: “…broken or badly sprained.” Again not sure how to picture this. I’d taken it as more of a bruised vs. entirely crushed situation, with the description of how it was pinned. “…against the seat.” Like, mounted on the seat? The current wording makes it sound like it’s just leaning against the seat, which implies that it would have been loose and flying around during the crash. “using her seat like a platform.” So she’s on the left side. L is on the right in the water. I’m a little confused about her movement after she undoes her harness (what’s keeping her from falling to the right?). How much space does she have to maneuver? “placing the kit on the left side of L’s seat” I wonder if it would be helpful to ignore lefts and rights and ups and downs in this line and just have her looking for the closest flat surface. Distinguishing relative directions (“well…it’s to L’s left, but he’s still strapped into his seat, and it’s sort of beneath or to the side of me and is flat…”) seems like too extensive of a thought when rushing to help L. Even for someone who is keeping relatively calm under pressure. Pg 6: “pressure pads” Are these like gauze pads? Or some fancy space-first-aid thing? I’m not familiar with the term, though the concept is clear enough. It seems like she’s applying pressure herself here at first, but I think it would be better to add some more steady pressure (the dressings are mentioned later. Why does she wait? When taking her hands off to apply the dressings could allow the clotting to fail?) Also, apparently hemostatic dressings are a thing. So you could be applying pressure and also encouraging the blood to clot faster. I know nothing about them. They just turned up when I asked the internet what pressure pads are. Probably best to ask someone more familiar with emergency medical procedures what makes the most sense to have in a sci-fi first-aid kit. “a black belly…” it took me a couple seconds to figure out why the black belly was being contrasted with the green and yellow top. But they’re also sideways. So I don’t know what side is “facing up” or visible to anyone going by. And I’d imagine that the last thing that would be good for L would be moving the ship suddenly and jarring his injuries. Pg 7: “respirator system wasn’t operating.” This goes back to the safety features that should be standard on a civilian vehicle that might find itself in environments with non-breathable air. That should be attached to a back-up power system. [edit- aren’t they using the tanks later? How does being hooked into their seats help if the respirator system isn’t operating? Just confused about how exactly this works] “layered on thick bandages…” This seems like it should have been done earlier. Though I get that the downtime while she’s applying pressure allows time for processing how to get out of this mess. And delaying the radioing for help. But from an emergency response standpoint, that should have probably happened before she did anything with the wound if she knew she’d be doing nothing for ten minutes. [edit. Yeah. If setting up the mayday repeat signal was that quick, that should have been step 1] “Thank the universe” goes back to the voice of God comment above. These two subconscious religious references should probably reflect her belief system. Even if that belief system is just that she swears by whatever is common to whatever her culture seems to believe in. The voice of God comment implies some sort of Judeo-Christian reference point, but “Thank the universe” implies something almost exactly opposite that. She doesn’t have to necessarily believe either of these, but I feel like they should match for character consistency and be world-relevant. I don’t know that “voice of the universe” would come across as clearly to a reader, but maybe tie these two things together? “might break the clot” oh, so nowwww we’re worried about that. Not when we removed pressure after holding it for 10 minutes. Though the decision not to move him (a wise one) seems like it would make the back and forth a few lines above irrelevant. Unless he asks to be moved because he doesn’t realize how badly he’s injured, and her telling him no makes him realize how serious she thinks the situation is. Or something. If she knows it’s not going to be a good idea to move him, the dialogue above should reflect that and can probably give us some sense of both of their mental states. “immediate and rapid blood loss” this seems repetitive. “anti-infection shots” So…antibiotics? Pg 8: “Tell them I say hi” Heh. “six-foot-one frame bent in half…” This again brings up questions about what the space she’s trying to move around in looks like. As a short person who has now and then found myself trying to climb across the center console to get out the passenger side door due to a poorly considered parking decision, I find it very hard to picture any of my six-foot friends having much luck trying to do the same. “which didn’t require electricity” I don’t think this clarification is necessary. “As if there was a pressure difference…” Might be clearer as “Not that there was any pressure difference…” “Wind immediately snatched the door and brought it swinging against the fuselage.” So the door opens flat? Pulling that back in is going to take a lot of strength to get it passed the 90* mark where the wind is pushing against the full surface area. Pg 9: “Relying on muscle…” But wasn’t she bent in half while trying to move around inside? If she has any footing on her chair as a step, she should be able to climb out without trouble. Unless the door is more than a few feet from her seat, which seems odd aerodynamically. “prayed the wind wouldn’t pull…” If the wind is blowing through the canyon in one direction hard enough to catch the door and throw it open, I don’t see that as being a reasonable fear. If it suddenly switches directions with the same force and at an angle to push the door up and closed, I feel like our weather has just become our main concern. Because that shift in force is going to be dislodging the ship from whatever position it’s currently stuck in. Or provide enough rotation to tilt it forward or backward into the river. “small island” I’m not entirely sure how to picture this. But it does at least remove the above concern about the ship being dislodged, since it’s probably pretty well wedged in there. “wall of wind” if the wind is still blowing the same direction that blew the door open, it would be blowing her toward the door and out of the ship. If she’s leaning out far enough, that could mean needing to use her injured foot to find purchase on something to hold herself in, though, if we just need a method of continuing to make our MC miserable. Leaning out too far also leaves her more visible and exposed for when our creature-friend comes along. Pg 10: “Straining under her own weight” ? She should be mostly leaning on the door if she’s still trying to secure the slipknot. Or if the door doesn’t open flat (which, now that I’m thinking about it, makes more sense. Though the crashing against the fuselage above would need to be adjusged. I’m not sure what makes sense for a realistic ship door opening angle. Something more than 90* probably, though, which should give her some leverage on it.) I would have assumed that the first thing she would have done would have been to pull herself up enough to be sitting on the edge of the door frame. The farther past 90* it is, the more of a miserable job it’s going to be to pull it closed again, since she’ll be fighting the wind past that greatest surface area point. “opening and clothing” closing “Teeth that would crack in her shipsuit” cut through seems like a more relevant word choice. Or break through depending on the rigidity of the suit. Pg 11: Why is her oxygen so much lower than his when he’s the one at risk of having a suit leak? [edit after reattaching to the ship tanks. Got it. I wasn’t quite getting how that worked. Still not sure how they actually connect to the oxygen tanks] “By then the ship would be submerged so that the door would be easier to open” I don’t follow. If the water level is above the ship, you’re going to be pushing the weight of the water over it and the weight of the door. At least until that pressure seal is broken again. And then all of the water will be coming pouring in, and you’ll still be fighting water flow and not getting as much help from the gusting wind. Right now she only has to push it far enough to let the wind catch it. Much easier. Shouldn’t the shipsuits have some sort of insulating properties if they’re intended for use in a number of different planetary environments? Pg 12: “…over her visor, over her shoulder.” It seems like the speed that the ship is filling at has sped up. Concluding rambling thoughts: Most of the above thoughts were a result of reading more slowly while actually commenting. I don’t remember half of them the first time through because the tension and pacing were really great, and it hid a lot of little inconsistencies or confusing points. I’m going to echo the others’ thoughts on not being sure what her motivation is, since it seems to be winning races at the beginning then switches halfway through. And I’ll admit I’m not super excited about winning races as a key motivation unless she has a more obvious reason for it. For realizing that friendship is more important than racing to be the main arc, I think we need more contrast up front. Right now, they seem pretty close and have a solid, friendly history. Going through near-death experiences together is obviously going to strengthen that relationship even further, but it’s not enough of a change from their starting point for me to feel like real change happened.

Yeah. Even just getting through part 1 yesterday was helpful in nailing down the information that. Though most of them are only cut back to two sentences right now. Because I think that's all I can manage for one pass. I'll plan to do another pass to trim them back again once I finish this round before I pass it along for looking over. This is my current plan. Yep. And Also why I know it needs to be done.

So this is all circling around the right idea, but I either cut out the line that clarified things or it wasn't clear enough. He is one of Al's advisers. Also, the useless bystander in the mess of a prologue. But he's been the duchy's official representative in the capital since Al's parents' deaths, and so, has been using the rooms set aside for that person. He'd be living there 3/4 of the year with periodic short trips back to the duchy for Al-'s political training. Which is why having his stuff moved out is more effort (and far more likely) than if it was someone who'd been moved into the wrong room. His stuff has been there for more than a decade and he'd told them to move it out when he last left, but they didn't because no one actually expected Al- to be coming. After Al-'s parents' deaths, a team of advisers saw to the running of things and training him, and have slowly handed off responsibilities to him as he's gotten older. He took over the infrastructure responsibilities in full before the others because that adviser died a few years before the story takes place (hence his being excited about his road project being completed and wanting to make use of it by developing more trade). He hadn't gone over the gift several times. He had picked a different one (the cloak pin), then changed it at the last minute after overthinking the color significance and grabbed one from what had been sorted out as "acceptable" that made more sense color-wise. But it is all a little convoluted at the moment, so confusion is fair. I think part of the problem is that there's more time spent on it because it's both dealing with explaining some of the cultural norms about spellstones and introducing the bracelet that turns up again later. So I front-loaded all of the information (partly just because that's apparently what I do...urgh) because I'm picturing the later scene where he's forgotten about the bracelet and suddenly realizes that it's just what he needs, and the reader gets a bit of an Aha! if they connected things before he did. But it doesn't help if we get bogged down in the details now. If I had a nickel for each of my fun foreshadowing tidbits that have gotten called out as being parts of info-dumps, I would have a lot of nickels. Obviously I need to figure out how to do that better. And it will probably be irrelevant anyway if I'm going to be cutting this chapter out. There's housing for the nobles' representatives at court. Usually themselves, but in Al-'s case, Ras- has been filling that role since his parents' death. Al- wouldn't have, even though he has the authority to. They're his rooms. They're just still getting Ras-'s stuff out. And if he had, Ras- would probably have been irritated at Al-'s standing outside his own rooms waiting for his own servants to let him in. But Tre- would. He's lived/worked in the rooms as a servant to Alaric's grandfather way back when, is impatient with the situation as it is, and wouldn't see any reason to wait in the hall. I think the lack of clarity about Ras's role is part of the problem here. It should come across as dismissive. Of Ras- being used to being the one in authority when he's in the capital and falling into the trap of sometimes seeing Al- as far younger than he is when he's been training him for so long. And of Al- not immediately noticing it since he's used to Ras- treating him like a political student and not as a duke. It probably would have been more effective if Tre- had been there to get defensive for Al-. Or at least have enough of a reaction to get Ras- to realize what he'd said and correct himself and apologize for slipping into old habits. More problems that get tossed aside if this chapter gets scrapped (and that need to be dealt with better when they interact later)

I think part of it is just that the full cast that we are aware of all seem to be closely connected to a sort of weird extent. I think just seeing some people who aren't either part of A's mystery organization or being actively targeted by said organization will be helpful. I don't think it will be as obvious without this as the prologue, but at the moment, my mind couldn't help but sort of go "isn't there anyone in this world that is just a poor innocent bystander going about their normal life?" Which hits especially hard when the two sides of the equation are currently very secretive. So it feels like everyone is either a secret magical creature hunter or a magical creature being secretive. I'm pretty sure my mind twisted it way out of proportion, but figured it was worth mentioning as a sticking point.

This is one of the reasons I feel like I can't just start with that chapter, even if I can cut out a lot of the early stuff. In Is-'s interactions with almost everyone, she shies away from conflict and sort of chameleons into what people expect her to be (this seems like it will be a problem through the story, but her priorities shift. Just trust me on that). But the fact that R- doesn't seem to even care about what he's supposed to be drives her crazy. Especially when she feels like she has to make up for his shortcomings. And while their realization that they severely misunderstand each other is a big plot point, it's more of a supporting point to the central plotline, which is going to be really difficult to tie into the tournament scene as an opener. These do exist. Is- is constantly grasping to maintain some perception of control of her life (a thing that isn't obvious when she has that control at the beginning - except for not being able to get R to do what she wants him to do- and is about to lose it). Ala- is trying to get past his past to find stability for himself and the duchy- (which he is lacking at the beginning, but has what he thinks is a path toward it). R is trying to prove himself competent and useful when he and Is- (and the king) have very different definitions for what competent and useful mean. V is trying to maintain his increasingly fragile control over the court and the kingdom. And trying to keep Is- from taking after his tendencies any more than she already does because he knows how miserable it is (often by blocking her attempts to take on responsibilities and tasks that might put her at risk, even though she's trying to take them on to prove to him that she is capable of them) Ali (Is-'s sister) sees how Is- and R- and V- are all too caught up in their stubborn pride, and are entirely failing to see how much they're hurting each other. And she's done putting up with it. Definitely. I will quite likely send a message in the next couple days once I've puzzled through a couple of things. I appreciate you and @Snakenaps trust in my positive mindset. I can guarantee that the cold, black and white forum text portrays it more kindly than it sometimes goes through my head. Which is good. Because I hate being defensive about things. Especially when I know the other person is either right or close enough to right based on the information they have. I'm not very good at being defensive or angry. It stresses me out.

Overall: Somehow in all of my YA reading, I never got into much of the paranormal side of it. So be warned that my reading will probably reflect that. 1. I’m definitely interested in where this is going, though I would probably be really confused if I opened a book expecting it to be YA romance and ended up starting here. Especially if we then don’t see him for quite a while. I think that plus the present tense would be tough step for me to get over if I didn’t have it recommended by someone whose reading tastes I trust or if I was going into it without knowing the purpose of starting here. That being said, I think the chapter itself is engaging. I enjoyed the dialogue and am really interested in seeing where the main story fits into the world this sets up. 2. I got the impression that he’s assuming her to be some creature that isn’t capable of lying. And her behavior seems to confirm that. But I’m not familiar enough with mythological creature categories to know what that plus healing abilities implies. 3. I’d probably find it a little jarring, but I think it could be smoothed over if there’s some way to have some interaction with either him or the trouble he’s been causing elsewhere in the first few chapters. 4. I don’t think so? But I have a lot to learn on this front, so I’d put more value on others’ answers to that. 5. Definitely I read this yesterday and am trying to remember what LBL thoughts I had. There weren’t many. B’s rather simplistic comment about rich people being incompetent seemed to stuck out as odd. Hating rich people? Especially those she blames for enabling the opioid epidemic? That makes sense. And I don’t blame her. But assuming rich people in general are incompetent seems like an overly simplistic opinion for her to have as an intelligent and educated person. Also, while I already distrust the deputy, since he seems to be on A’s side, his dismissal of parental instinct seems unrealistic. Especially since he is a parent. Even if he is part of some organization that is hunting down various magical creatures and is generally just not a great person, I’d expect him to dig into the manipulation/threat possibilities of a parent/child relationship instead of discarding it altogether. The deputy’s involvement with A when his daughter is dating B’s son seems weirdly coincidental without any other information (I guess it’s possible that he found out about B through conversations with his daughter or her son, then sent A after her? Or the girlfriend was part of it from the start and is only dating him to get more information about B? The one line does imply that she’s involved. But I’m not sure how getting them to break up makes sense…). My mind probably latched onto it more than it had to, but I remember having a skeptical moment during the phone call.

The main change was supposed to be a clearer impression that the trusted adviser is involved with something suspicious and is trying to brush it off. But that's not coming across. I'd been stuck in thinking that having a non-Is- chapter up front was more important than it is to set a pattern of jumping PoVs, but I'd been missing the detail that finding a better way to cut all of the mess of the opening chapters is going to be a stronger way of doing that. Yes. Yes, it is. True. I probably should have just skipped this one going through this round. But I was overthinking too many other things and wasn't considering that jumping back to where I'd left off before resubmitting chapter 1 was an option. Ugh. And the feedback is still helpful. Even if a lot of it is a reminder that I jumped into the group with both feet during a lull when the week or two that I was reading and commenting before submitting didn't give me a good understanding for how the process should actually go. And unfortunately, we all now have to deal with me figuring out the best approach to the whole process far too late. I will probably be just jumping forward to the tournament. Because otherwise I think you're all going to give up any hope that this thing has any momentum at all (which is fair from having to slog through the early chapters too many times). Hopefully that will start getting me out of the hole I've dug myself into...

Then I misunderstood what you were looking for. I was putting together chapter summaries, not what you would call an outline. Because I don't have the same terminology in mind that you do. Specifically the exclusion of non-critical events. I'm working on what you were actually looking for now that I have a clearer understanding of what that means. I think this is where there's a lot of talking past each other. Because I know the beginning is a mess. I've known it for a while. It's a combination of the few things that have still lingered from when it was trunked in like 2012. I now know that it is far more of a mess than I was aware of, but it doesn't change the fact that everything leading up to the tournament is like a tumor that everyone has assumed means the whole body is filled with the same cancer. I know there are problems with the overall story, but they aren't the same problems that are in the first bunch of chapters, and I don't think they're as debilitating. But I know the story is massive, so trying to figure out the best way to even ask for the right sort of feedback on that when I haven't gone through the process of a concise outline for something this large before is eluding me. I should have probably just kept subbing through on the first round, or jumped straight to the tournament, or something. But the side of me that doesn't like leaving things obviously broken before moving on had difficulty doing that and hadn't realized how much of a problem it would be now because I haven't gone through this process before. I have clear pictures in my head of all of these things, but am horrible at defining them concisely. It's all woven together in my head, so it's difficult to separate the events from the context of the world. Working through some "best path forward" discussions with the husband this morning has nailed down that this is probably going to be the best way to get the feedback I'm actually looking for instead of just getting further confirmation that the first bunch of chapters needs to just be scrapped altogether. Not much. And it has been...a while. @Snakenaps convinced me to join her venture into some of that, so we'll see how it goes. I do think it will be helpful, even though it hurts my soul a bit to not be able to just write something that doesn't include like 20k words of worldbuilding. Which we all know is my problem. And my soul could use the lesson. Stay tuned.

Is the content of the outline confirming this? Or just the fact that it's paragraph summaries instead of single sentences? I can do that. I just didn't know that's what was implied. I'll get to work on that.

On one hand, yeah. Things take off there. And I've been trying to find a way to make that work. But part of that is Is- being sidelined by the poisoning and the rest of the family scrambling to deal with it. Then shipping her off to stay with her uncle when it's clear that sitting down and resting until she's better isn't something she's capable of doing unless forced to. A few of the interactions could be moved to that in-between, but when suddenly faced with the matter of her own frailty, she's going to avoid any situations that might stretch outside of her control like the plague. Which means almost no interaction with Ro- until Part 5, when they are both trying to glue the pieces of their lives back together and not doing a very good job of it because no one in their family is willing to acknowledge that they have feelings (except her mom and sister). I know I need to find the true beginning, but I don't know what that means for providing a sense of what the "ordinary world" looks like before everything falls apart when the cast splits soon after the true inciting incident. Is-'s main character arc is based on her perception of how much control she has in her life. And grasping at things (most clearly, magic) to try to pull her world back together into something where she can be competent and steady again. But if we start at the tournament, I don't think there's a clear picture of what she's lost. And without some sense of how badly she and Ro- misunderstand each other up front, I don't think the parallels in their arcs are as meaningful.

1) This is a good point that I hadn't really considered. 2) Right now the world-falling-apart process begins in chapter 5. I'm still working on the best format for an official outline, but here is a rough chapter by chapter summary (the numbering is off while I'm figuring out what things can be combined, but it's close enough to work with). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1akz5nAU-bQZ43MtPuroXAQpFrAK8BmwHFX1tDpN82f0/edit?usp=sharing

Still trying to figure out which of these sorts of things need to be directly stated and which ones can be conveyed more subtley. My tendency is to always pick the wrong option. Or to provide half the information but leave out the vital bits. Stones containing the legal spells (fire and sleep. As per chapter 1) are more socially acceptable. And those containing the fire spell (lightstones and heatstones) are too practical to go without. Because self-heating teapots, lighting that isn't going to risk burning anything down, and ready access to warm bath water are just too convenient to dogmatically avoid. Especially by the people who are dictating the fashions. They still make rather legalistic guidelines for what is "acceptable" but they're not likely to go without warm baths. Unfortunately, I am realizing that the decorative lights in the garden confuse this point. It's flaunting the fact that the royal family has access to magistrates to fill that many lightstones for a party (if every individual Christmas light in a strand had to be charged and replaced individually, hanging them up on porches would probably seem excessive as well) but that's not clear, and is probably not a useful subtlety to convey unless the reader understands the more concrete rules first. If the bracelet spellstone had been a firestone or sleepstone, it would have been less problematic, but still strange enough to make an alternative option better. Yeah. I know I need to get to things falling apart faster. I think adjusting chapter 1 to have the reader aware of Is-'s spellcasting and her hiding it from her father will help with some of that (and cutting back the political discussion further), but it's still not something really going wrong. It's just an increased sense of worry. For her, it probably seems like the worst thing in the world. Because all things considered, her life is really easy at the moment. But it's not helpful for grabbing a reader. Part of this is close to intentional, to show Is- as even-keeled and rational. But again, not helpful to the reader until we have the contrast of things actually going wrong and see her out of her depth, still trying to cling to composure, and falling even harder because of it. At the moment, I'm planning to keep subbing through knowing this is an issue and begging for patience until we get through the arc of Part 1. Because I'm sure there are ways to add more emotional involvement early on, but I don't know how to do it without screwing up where things need to be for that arc. And while it's possible they need to be somewhere else entirely, I'd rather have people familiar with said arc before deciding that. All of that being said, thanks for the thoughts. These are definitely things I need to figure out. Also, glad to see you back!

Pg 1: “It had most definitely…not” The most disappointing of surprises. When snacks are not where they are supposed to be. The invitation text does a good job of setting up the alternate earth location. Though I wonder about “Newly” being included in the full proper name (according to the acronym/initialism). Is the NES newly unified? Or has it always called itself by the full proper name and plan to continue to do so for the foreseeable and distant future? “back into their pocket, and stood” missing comma. Pg 2: “Ser walked…” trying to figure out the blocking here. I’d pictured them crouched facing a river, but feel like I need some indication of turning to walk. “Soft…face.” The hair description seems a little too long. Too many words before we get to “framed” “…arched, but a grin brightened his face” missing word? Also, it seems odd to contrast an arched eyebrow and a grin with “but” when those don’t seem to be contradictory expressions. “more of a supper.” Approaching the supper vs. dinner terminology dispute head-on. Bold. Some of the dialogue through here seems a little wordy for casual conversation. And I can’t get a good read on the relationship between the two. The descriptions suggest physical attraction from Ser-‘s side, but the thoughts/narrative/etc. don’t give indication of whether it’s one-sided, if they’re in a relationship or some other situation. Ser-‘s line before being hugged makes it seem sort of like they aren’t expecting the hug, though E-‘s response makes it seem like a natural/normal occurrence. If Ser- is just not the type to initiate physical contact and E- is, the exchange there makes sense, but I think it could use some clarification. “Elementals could…puppet.” While it seems to make sense to use terms like ambassadors and diplomats here, it implies more formality and training and the like than I’ve gotten the impression of from Ser- so far. Even if their mom seems to be somebody important. I hadn’t really gotten that Ser- is an ambassador, even after the implication that they are a mage. Pg 3: “…when As- made them trail…” Is this a typo? Or just something that we don’t understand yet? Right now I’m reading it as the former. “…plucked the invitation out of the claw…” helpful crab friend. Though why didn’t they just stick the invitation in their pocket instead of dropping it? I’d assumed they were trying to hide it from E-. But that’s obviously not the case. “…slab of rock they’d been sitting on…” slab of rock? Where’d that come from? Seems like some of the conversation about the missing ambassador could be cut back. Pg 4: I’d like to know more about these sea monsters, please (obviously not here, but I do like a world where sea monsters are casually mentioned as a real thing.) “time for their rule” This seems like a thing that should be stated very early. Not having any idea how the government works or how the world is set up beyond what we get in the invitation, it would be helpful to know what their mom’s position is and that it’s hereditary (or at least that they have been chosen as the next leader) and that the term “rule” is more relevant than “lead” or “guide” or some other similar role. At the moment, the phrase is contradicting the image I have of the world. I guess the word heir was used in the invitation, but not knowing what Mom’s role is, I had taken it as Ser- being some sort of heir to her magical knowledge or powers or something. Why do only women live on the solar barges? How does one become a solar-barge-woman? Pg 5-7 seem like they could be cut back a good deal. Pg 7: “Do you have coordinates?” Would coordinates be more helpful than a general heading and distance? Seems like an odd request if they aren’t navigating with a map or some technology. Pg 8: The physical description seems extensive. Though, considering my approach to most physical descriptions (leaving them out altogether without noticing), that may just be me. Pg 9: “…got stuck in the winds…”For someone who I’ve assumed from the rest of the chapter to have a good deal of power and authority, he doesn’t seem to be incredibly competent or well-informed. Continuing on, he seems like a bit of a heavy-handed caricature. Pg 9-11 A lot of this seems like it could be cut back or streamlined. Pg 12 “Because you’re wise.” This seems like an odd response to Ser-‘s comment about fearing magic. Is fearing magic wise, then? Do they actually fear magic? Or does Mom see it as a cautious respect that she sees as wisdom? Overall: I am quite intrigued by the magic system and the world, but don’t know where we are going from here. If they are leaving home, why the opening scene with E-? Who I assume will be staying behind. Also, what exactly is the invitation to? What does representing V-P mean? The jump from rescuing the ambassador to talking to Mom seemed jarring, and the whole rescue seemed like a roundabout way to convey the details that not all elementals act the same and not all ambassadors are good at their jobs. It’s hard to say what needs to be here or doesn’t without knowing where things are going, but it could definitely use reworking to trim back and streamline the information that is presented to make sure that we are only getting what is necessary. (said the pot to the kettle) I am sympathetic to the hints at Ser-‘s character and concerns that I’m getting, but I don’t have a good sense of their motivations or goals.

Epigraphs: I generally have pretty mixed feelings about epigraphs anyway, so that doesn’t help, but these mostly just seemed confusing and a little disorienting. I assume these would be more meaningful if I’d read the previous books, but I can’t place most of the details, so they don’t mean much to me. And a couple of them just seem really long. Chapter 3 Start Pg 3: “Not Or…flying.” The structure of both of these sentences made me have to slow down to process them. Seems like they could be smoothed out a little. “Hero?...magnitude” This does a great job of calling us back to her goals, though, which I think is especially helpful with the time jump. Pg 4: “She sat…At-“ On one hand, this sentence is really long. But I like her making reference to At- here as well. Lets us know that the scene in the previous chapter turned into a longer-term relationship. Pg 5: “The material was not…cost” Another sentence that could be smoother. Or split into two. The list of material qualities and the purchasing details would each be fine on their own, but doesn’t flow as well when combined. Pg 6: “Cellulose loss…hold?” The shift from cellulose-related warnings to the last sentence was a little jarring. I’d initially read “body” as some curse I didn’t understand. Keeping the structure pattern through that paragraph, maybe just “Cellulose loss…Cellulose loss… Body. Did…” or something like that, if we’re listing something along the lines of sensor readout. Pg 10: “She finished laughing…” The previous paragraph made it clear that the ship name was notable, but not necessarily that she found it funny. So the jump to the laughing and casual conversation seems sudden. Pg 11: “…my tech knowledge is dated… do you have any idea…” This gives me a far better idea of her level of knowledge. Though it does make me wonder why she wasn’t more concerned about the cellulose depletion coming in, if she had no idea why it was happening. The dialogue also does a much better job of clarifying the undertones of the conversation this time around, making the pauses and concerns about offending and the like a lot more understandable. Pg 12-13: Approximately a million times clearer than the previous version. Pg 14: “The … Pru- (maybe??) …” I’m not sure what the maybe is second-guessing or why. “Still, pretty woman. Bar…” Hah. Might as well make the best out of the situation, right? Pg 16: “They won’t want anything…” Also hugely helpful in explaining why the Ke- isn’t more concerned about leaving her. Pg 17: “How could she be so close…” Oof. Pg 18: Her distraction from apparent death and destruction makes far more sense this time around. Pg 19: “I can … have an existential crisis…” Best to plan these things out. Overall: I think this solved all of the problems I remember having with the previous version. The stakes aren’t getting bogged down in confusion, the conversation with the Ke- is clear, and her goal of heroically proving At- right comes across far more clearly.

I remember thinking that I needed to clarify this earlier, but must have gotten bogged down in other things and forgotten about it. I'd intended to stress some of her self-conscious feelings of being too old to be doing these sorts of things. That it's no wonder she's treated like a child when she's no taller than one. Etc. I'll make a note to clarify that when I get around to the next revision. In the meantime, for general reference, she's almost nineteen (though checking back to the chapter, it says nineteen. And not until page 3) Thanks!

Good luck!

Hi All! Here is the new Chapter 2 of my epic fantasy, Price of Peace. No content tags for this chapter. This version should do a better job of cutting back some of the exposition dumping and random side-notes, and the continuity and direction should be better. However, I’m sure there are new problems being made (and old, instinctive ones shifting themselves into new places). Thanks!

So by being late to the party, it looks like everyone caught the typos and sentence flow sorts of comments that I had noticed, and you addressed them in your post above. I really enjoyed this chapter as an introduction to G4. I think it is far more helpful than having her introduced out on her own, especially with the tie to At-. I didn't see any issues with At- seeming too mature or thoughtful for her age. I do think it tells us more about At- than it does about G4 in some ways, but I don't know if that's a bad thing. Especially if it works as a sort of mid-point to get to G4's PoV. It tells us about who At- was as a kid, and it tells us enough about G4 to keep our first interaction with her from being her sitting in space on her own. A) do you think it is necessary (there was a lot of 'why is G4 doing this I don't understand the connection, and I think this helps??) I don't know if it's necessary, but I think it's helpful, and I think it adds a lot of color to the other chapter. And I just like it. So there. B.) should it come before or after last week's sub Before. C) does it need shortened or lengthened? Make it snappier, or make it more intricate with maybe a real plot? I like it as it is. I think it's fun and presents the characters vividly. See the notes above about it seeming like an interesting halfway point between At- and G4. A baton pass of sorts that makes for an interesting perspective of the new character. But I think if it were too much longer, we'd want it to be more focused on G4. Also, maaaaybe finding a way to imply when we later reference the relationship that there's more than this one interaction? Which I wasn't getting from her glance at the photo in the settee last time. But that's not relevant to this chapter. Not a lot of useful things to point out, since everyone else beat me to them, but I enjoyed this one

Good clarification I figured there wasn't a specific request day. It just feels early because I think this is the first week I've been around that anyone has put in a request before Friday. And also because my brain is running a day behind and exaggerating the feeling.

Good to know. I will have to keep that in mind. I have a feeling a lot of my trouble all around has been related to this. I like the puzzle of figuring out what random detail early on is going to be the game-changer at the end, and as a reader, I file away a lot of random unnecessary details because I assume they might be foreshadowing, and I love the feeling of figuring it out before the character does, or seeing the pieces I filed away come together. And while not all of my info dumps fit the category of "if the reader keeps this in the back of their mind, they'll be so excited when they see it play out here." There are probably too many that do, and that include more information than necessary to signal that it's important, but then just ends up being overwhelming or confusing because there aren't reference points to tie things to this early on.

Pg 1: “Count Cr-…had invited the L- family…” tense is off. Same thing a little later “Before A- had taken to tending… the wine the L- produced had been…” This happens a few other times as well. Just be careful anytime you’re referring to what happened before what A- is currently experiencing. Pg 2: I was a little surprised by the mother and sister appearing on page 2. Not a huge issue, but it’s a little jarring when page 1 set up an image of just father and son in the carriage. I think it’s just the “sat self-satisfied…his son” line. It doesn’t say they’re the only ones in the carriage, and the family is mentioned, but it might be helpful to get all of the family members into our mental picture from page 1. Pg 4 I’d taken A- for far younger than seventeen up until this point. Partly due to the knee patting at the beginning, I think. That interaction makes him seem far younger Pg 5-7 Some jarring shifts between scenes or points of conversation that could be smoothed over to seem more natural. “cause to celebrate” – this seems to imply that he’s now going to change his plans to do something special, but he just calls the food in? “there’s nothing to fear”- Does A- not think to mention that maybe his startling trip to the privy might be worth mentioning to someone? Considering the unexpected invitation to stay? Seems to be a concerning lack of alarm. Pg8-14 Treatment of female characters and tonal confusion aside, there is a lot through here that just need some of the wordiness and over-formality of the language ironed out to make it a lot smoother. The tension and stakes are there, but tripping over some of the wording and explanations along the way is interfering with it. Pg 11 Knowing something about Mr. G- earlier would be a big help. A- noting his absence in some way. Maybe tying his disappearance to his sometimes seeming like he’s hiding things. Also, maybe giving G- a reason to have stuck around until then. Maybe he was going to escape but overheard that there would be more people coming. Or specifically the L-s. Pg 14 Need something to separate the PoV jump. Are we going to be jumping to other PoVs regularly? Overall: There were a number of distracting moments due to awkward sentence structure and wordiness (a lot of adjective piles. A lot of overly formal dialogue). I’d taken some of it as an attempt to push a gothic setting/genre, but reading through the comments, it seems like that’s not what it’s ultimately going to be. If it’s going to be a more general YA/fantasy, I think some of the flow and tone of the text should be smoother and simpler. Not simplistic, but a little less of the formality and tone that are pushing the gothic feel. Especially because the over-formality is likely part of what is making some parts jarring and stilted. I haven’t read too many things where our MCs are trying to fight off and/or defend themselves against demons, so I’m quite curious about where things are going, but I definitely think we need more character connection to be invested. And a lot of that is lost in the formality and distance of the language. I have very little idea of what even our MC’s thoughts are on any of what’s happening unless he’s actively speaking (or being sick or fainting) More alright for a Gothic approach, but if you’re aiming for a YA feel, even if it’s Gothic-tinged, I think this is a lot more darkness and description of gore and implied rape than I’d expect to appeal to fit a YA audience. I’m definitely interested in seeing where this goes. Especially since you’re saying it changes directions tone-wise quite a bit from here.

Me, as well, if we're all jumping in early this week.