Trusk'our

Why do you say that? I don't want to bash you for your opinion, I'm merely curious. That was my line of reasoning as well. I really wanted Marasi and Wax to get together for a while, but I eventually came to the conclusion that Wax and Steris fit really well together. But, that's my opinion, of course.

It's saying that there is an upper capacity to Hemalurgic spikes, not that you can't fill a spike with more Investiture. Plus, we have Nightblood; it was a formerly non-Invested piece of steel, and yet it holds massive amounts of Investiture. It also has an upper limit- it can't devour entire Shards, for example- but it can increase the total Investiture it holds by drawing more from an outside source.

I think that would be well within the limits of Awakening (we know that Nightblood can grant things to its wielder, for example. WoB), assuming that the Awakener had sufficient knowledge of what they were doing, enough Breath, and enough skill. Don't know, to be honest. Though from what we've seen so far, a lot of the powers that aren't just "make this object move around like a noodle on its own" have to do with Awakened non-organic things, suggesting that a lot of Breath is required- i.e. Nightblood, Azure's blade, and ToES spoilers... Would 1,000 Breaths be enough to create A-Atium like effects with the proper knowledge and skill? Probably- that's a lot of Investiture being thrown around. However, the power uses Kinetic Investiture (and very quickly at that) so it likely would end up burning through the Breaths instead of granting a permanent free power. You're welcome

Well, you could fuse a bunch of pillars of metal together (or make a huge mold for molten metal) and make a large Metalmind- one stretching over an entire city block or two- and then fill it via Compounding (and possibly Allomantic duralumin to speed it up) over a long period of time. Do this enough and you will eventually get a Perpendicularity, though transportation would likely be impossible under most circumstances. Though, building a Metalmind-Perpendicularity out of an entire ship would fix the transportation problem.

I think that there would be some extra potential for precognitive abilities manifesting in Awakeners; they are closer to the Spritual Realm, so having a better ability to read it would make sense. I especially think that if they had another way to see into the SR (Allomantic electrum or possibly Feruchemical chromium) that having access to a Heightening of sufficient power on top of that might make their future sight more effective, as the power has to do less work to access to the SR. Also, thank you for complimenting my argument, I appreciate it It is worth mentioning that Awakened objects "see" in a comparable fashion to Steel Inquisitors. That isn't to say that they don't have access to seeing the SR in some way, only that there is another explanation for how they can sense the world around them and react to it. I suppose another thing to take into account is that there are Awakened objects that can sense the Intent of people, such as the Awakened lock used in TLM to protect the jars of Purified Dor. I believe that suggests that they at least have the potential to see more deeply into the SR than just seeing Steel-lines.

Lol, (I find it important to mention that I'm NOT laughing at the diagram- that's a useful explanation and really helps- I'm laughing at your dry wit )

I still think it might be an aspect of Fortune, because we've seen above-average skillsets be something that Radiants have; Windrunners like Kaladin Kinesthetic-combat related Fortune and Lightweavers have artistic skill Fortune. I think that it's very possible that the reason Skybreakers are so good at telling the guilty from the innocent may be because they have Fortune that aids them. It also may be that the reason Edgedancers have such good communication skills is because of their Fortune rather than their Resonance (or perhaps their Resonance boosts their Fortune? I mean, Wayne seemed pretty lucky, so perhaps his particular Resonance boosted his Fortune). What's interesting, if this turns out to be true, is that Fortune is directed along specific routs; not every Radiant Order has Fortune to be a great spearman and not every Order has Fortune to boost their ability to draw and paint. This also would help tell us what Hemalurgic chromium does, since it (might) steal destiny- Fortune that is shaped along a specific rout.

An interesting conclusion. I too found it strange that Kaladin somehow "feels" where weapons will land before they do, though the explanation of Fortune would go a long way to fill that gap. I very well think that this could be a taste of what a Spinner Ferring could do, though they would likely have a greater control and awareness of what they are doing, plus they can choose to tap at an accelerated rate to boost its effectiveness. As for the frustration of "stormlight does everything" concept, I kind of agree; Radiants often seem to have a number of abilities that just happen to let them do whatever is necessary at the time. The Metallic Arts do not do this, and I feel that reading that is more interesting, as it forces the characters to be more creative with their more limited resources. I agree. Kaladin's Fortune is similar to Stormlight enhanced strength; Stormlight does increase it, but it's a general benefit, not something that can be pushed to extremes. As a side note, in WoR Kaladin has trouble using his spear when he is struggling with his oath. I believe that this is because as a Surgebinder he has some kind of enhanced Fortune, which naturally boosts his martial skill and intuition. When his Bond with Syl weakens, so does his access to that extra Fortune. This supports the idea that Radiants such as Kaladin have a Fortune advantage. Other Orders of Radiants may have different ways that their Fortune compliments their skills, which would also explain Shallan's ability to draw almost inhumanly well. All in all, this is a very good catch @Tamriel Wolfsbaine. Very interesting insights in the elusive nature of Fortune.

Do you guy's mean when Wax fights the Coinshot on the train that uses a Steelbubble? That was in BoM. That would be really powerful- and awesome to see. It does make me wonder though if it would just make the Metalborn getting Leeched unable to access their powers temporarily, since they still have their Spiritual DNA in their system, they may just be unable to draw more Investiture into their system (burning metals or tapping Metalminds) to use their powers (at least until their Spiritwebs crack up again over time). Maybe super-charged chromium could do the trick? Or it might only be available to Savants.

Thank you! I appreciate the compliment I'm thinking now that it probably wouldn't work, actually- the Idrian Royal Locks are tied to lineage (specifically that of Vo's human descendants), so they probably couldn't be given away via gambling or legal tricks. I am starting to wonder though; could the Royal Locks be transferred as normal Breaths could, or would they be more like Divine Breaths where they instead turn into a super-boosted healing? Perhaps you could swing through some hoops (Connection or Identity manipulation) to do so if normal transfer doesn't work either. Also, welcome to the 17th Shard!

Anytime

Don't know if I really need to put this in more spoilers, but more ToES spoilers ahead, just in case.

ToES spoilers:

Well, ToES spoilers:

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that before, but perhaps that could be the case. @alder24 has four of them I think on the previous page.

What if knowledge of such life extension is kept secret for that very reason? Those that want to extend their lives know that if the secret gets out they'll have a lot of competition, so they keep it secret. Thanks!

Yup. Pretty much. I agree with this; they are both "permanent" parts of a being, so they count as Innate Investiture. That's a pretty logical conclusion. I just want to keep an open mind in case that turns out to not be how it works out. Yeah, he was a Cognitive Shadow at the time, which fiddles with things a bit. Actually, maybe this is how the 17th Shard slows the aging of its mortal members? They occasionally visit a place with a high concentration of Investiture to "boost" their health and youth? Yeah, and he likely would have known that such a thing was a possibility as well, since he had the in-depth knowledge granted by the Well of Ascension. Therefore, Kinetic Investiture probably isn't a good way to extend your lifespan unless it's directly programmed to do so, such as with Atium Compounding. Eh, I couldn't make a better analogy for needing to test your ideas out with other's viewpoints at the time, but clearly its humorous value was still present It's a good thing I enjoy indulging in them as well then

You know, I've actually wanted to do some research on the mechanics of punching ever since I did that one post one the size of Hemalurgic spikes and how much of an Invested charge they could hold (math is actually fun- at least, when it's being used for something you like). Though, due to Feruchemy's wackness with physics (F-steel not increasing your hitting power, F-iron not making you bulletproof, etc.), it probably wouldn't be reliable anyway. You could just pretend to hit them, but in reality your just falling strategically- though that's not really the same thing, is it?

Heh, lol Did someone make a thread on F-iron making punching better and it turning into a twelve-page conflict and I somehow miss it?

I think that this might work, assuming that the Aether isn't counted as a living being. Another idea might be to ask whether you could Awaken Aether structures to permanently maintain them on worlds that don't have the Invested fields to hold them together. That might be interesting to see.

It's true that we don't really know just how Invested Rashek was; it could have been anywhere from a lower Heightening to Godking levels. What's more, his Investiture level's would certainly fluctuate, given that he could Compound and had extremely powerful Allomancy (though I'm not sure that the Kinetic Investiture gained through those would have been very useful for his longevity). I think that you may be right about Spook and Rashek; they aren't exactly your average person and they have multiple things going on with them that could meddle with things. Also, I don't know that Spook did live 118 years; Marasi says he stepped down from his rule after a century, but we know that people tend to round numbers to a more concise whole. The Well of Ascension was said to fill every one thousand years, but it was actually every one thousand twenty-four years (WoB). Era three Mistborn is said in AoL to take place three centuries after the Catecandre, but it's actually three hundred and forty-one years PC (Coppermind Wiki). With that in mind, it could be that Spook actually reigned somewhere between seventy-five to ninety years, meaning that he could have been significantly younger than 118 when he died. Not saying that he didn't, just that it isn't set in stone right now. I thought that the reason the Rosharans in the WoB would live longer because they have slightly more Innate Investiture in them (Innate Investiture is just another form of Static Investiture, but one that is part of a living thing) than the average Skaa. But, I think that you may be right; an environment with more Static Investiture permeating it will allow someone to live longer in it, even if it isn't technically a part of them (it isn't Innate Investiture). Wonder if someone could become functionally immortal by chilling inside a Perpendicularity jacuzzi? Would be a bit boring, but I guess you could have servants get stuff for you and exert your will on the world around you. I don't know about that; Static Investiture is what we see prolonging people's lives (Bio-Chromatic Breaths, Stormlight permeating Roshar's ecosystem, and potentially Hemalurgic spikes) while Kinetic Investiture doesn't (I also find it important to clarify that I think that Static Investiture and Innate Investiture are likely the same thing, the only difference being that Innate Investiture is actually part of someone while Static Investiture is a broader term for any Investiture that isn't currently doing any work and is just acting as a "lightbulb" to the Spiritual Realm). Otherwise, I don't know that Rashek (yes, I know, not a perfect example, but we don't have many other ancient humans lying around) would have needed to Compound Atium- he'd have been able to Compound a decent amount of any other metal to slow aging. Better to build a house and shake it thoroughly to check if it's stable before you decide to sleep in it and have it potentially fall on your head (check your ideas before you set them in stone, basically). I do like it when people agree with me, but I understand that when people challenge my ideas it lets me see things with new perspectives and with a more open mind. In short, thank you for disagreeing with me and thereby giving me the opportunity to grow. I sincerely appreciate it (plus, I like to ramble on a LOT in case you couldn't tell, and this gives me the excuse to do so )

That's a fair conclusion. I hope we get more info in the books or from Brandon soon!

Yup, Breaths actually contain quite a bit of Investiture, comparatively speaking.

The ideas that come to mind for F-iron are; (1) slowing your fall by reducing your weight, (2) reducing your weight to make it slightly easier to climb (Wax mentions in BoM that it's slightly easier to climb a ladder when storing weight) and to be able to climb up more delicate structures without fear of breaking them, (3) combat wise increasing your weight to punch harder (may require practice to fully utilize the extra weight), falling on your opponent in a fight while increasing your weight to pin them or crush them (Skimmers would make GREAT wrestlers), making yourself lighter on your feet (Wax mentions this in AoL, if I'm correct), and making yourself heavier to resist being moved by your opponent (also Wax, AoL with Miles).

This is a follow up to my other post hypothesizing about the nature of Metalmind capacity and Investiture pushing into all three Realms (link here). I've been stumped for a while on how it is that Bio-Chromatic Breaths seem to increase one's lifespan, but someone with quite a bit of Spiritually based Investiture didn't have such benefits (Rashek). But, I have an idea now. My original hypothesis is that when enough Investiture in one Realm exists together, it pushes into the other two Realms; we see this with Shards creating Perpendicularities. Here's my new hypothesis building on that idea; Breaths are mostly in the Physical Realm, which means that they saturate the body and help it run better. However, Allomantic (and Feruchemical) power is mostly in the Spiritual Realm, which keeps it away from the body, meaning that it can't help you stay young. Now, with enough Investiture in either case it would start to bleed into the other Realms (Breaths would leak into the Spiritual and the presence of Allomantic powers would physically manifest), but you would need a lot of it to see that happen at any scale that would help someone like Rashek live noticeably longer; he's strong, but not strong enough to be naturally ageless since the majority of his Investiture resides in the Spiritual Realm. What about Returned and their agelessness? Their Divine Breaths are mostly Spiritual, after all. They're already Cognitive Shadows, so they wouldn't age even without having the 5th Heightening. It's also worth noting that the Idrian royal line has fragments of Divine Breaths inside them, yet they do not have noticeably longer lives, which further supports the idea that Investiture in the SR doesn't help nearly as much as Investiture in the PR when it comes to longevity. Another thing that comes into play here is Hemalurgy; Hemalurgic spikes have their Investiture exist mostly in the PR, which may extend one's life if enough Investiture could be obtained through this way. In fact, this may be why some Steel Inquisitors had longer lives than humans; the Investiture from their spikes increased their total lifespan (WoB). So, what do you guys think? One last afterthought; Breaths and Hemalurgic spikes are both tied to oneself; they are static Investiture that is an actual part of you in the PR, so they give you a boost to your health and longevity. Simply Compounding a bunch of Investiture into some Metalminds and implanting them into your body probably wouldn't work to extend your lifespan, as they aren't part of you (but I don't know, that's just a guess).