Trusk'our

I read this quote awhile ago, and it made me think about another use for F-nicrosil. There are two ways to interpret that, from what I can tell; either a Feruchemist with a weakened power "leaks" some small extra amount of attribute when they store, meaning that their Metalminds get filled with slightly less Investiture than what the Feruchemist gave up. So, for example, a Feruchemist who spent 60 minutes storing 20% of their strength in a Pewtermind would only really have 59-58 minutes worth of attribute stored in the Metalmind if they were somehow to tap it with perfect efficiency. A Feruchemist who gained their powers via Hemalurgy would be even worse- their power is weakened. However, the second interpretation interests me more; what if the attribute in the Metalmind is equal to what the Feruchemist stored, but when the Feruchemist taps that attribute it is simply less efficient; they may store 60 minutes worth of attribute, but when they tap it they lose some due to entropy. If you want to know whether this is actually possible via Cosmere rules, look no further than the SA. SA spoilers, in case you somehow weren't aware If the second interpretation holds true, then a Full Feruchemist (or anybody who had F-nicrosil and another Feruchemical power through some means) who stored their ability to use their other powers might be able to tap at much higher rates and suffer significantly less loss of Investiture due to attribute compression. They could store their ability to use their powers when not actively tapping or storing those powers, which would be pretty easy in comparison to the other attributes such as strength, health, or speed. Maybe this wouldn't be as crazy as Compounding, but I think that it could have some serious potential.

Hey guys, I'm back! Sorry for ghosting you (to anybody who cares), I had some stuff going on that took my attention away from the 17th Shard for a while, but hopefully I will be able to come back now, though it may be more infrequent. In any case, I've had a LOT of ideas or questions that I wanted to post, but couldn't. Here's one of the big ones; we saw in TLM that Marsh was running low on Atium, causing him to start feeling the effects of old age which would eventually kill him. However, what if he had been given some Unkeyed Dor instead? After all, it can be used to fuel any Invested power (as far as we've seen), so why couldn't he use some to fuel his F-Atium youth? Did Kelsier just not think of helping his brother out with the Dor, or did Marsh just keep it a secret? I suppose that it could be that Hemalurgic spikes can't use Unkeyed Investiture, but that seems unlikely to me since it can be used by anybody with an Invested power, and even if Identity contamination somehow does managed to mess with that function, Marsh specifically can bypass Hemalurgy's new limitations. What are your thoughts everyone? I'm dying to hear.

Interesting point on Vivenna holding Lemex's Breaths. The only thing I can think of is that it has something to do with the Tones- perhaps the Spiritweb has an "echo" that the Breaths pick up on, which can be felt as a flicker when the person is dying.

Hmmm. Good point.

Why couldn't it? Not trying to bash or anything. I'm genuinely curious why you think that- the Well has the power to literally move planets. Wouldn't destroying a Spren be a piece of cake in comparison?

Agreed. Unless the Mistborn pulls a Wayne and has an entire stomach full of aluminum burned with duralumin at exactly the right moment (which would likely take some extremely Fortuitous circumstances), they won't have anywhere near enough Investiture to meaningfully effect the Shardblade. Even then it may not be enough without something like Unkeyed Dor, harnessing the Mists, Awakened Hemalurgic spikes, Nicrosil Compounding, or Lerasium-level Allomancy. Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the Savant destroying the Spren, since the Spren's Investiture is getting ripped away by the burned aluminum. Blocking spiritual attacks may work as well, but physical cutting should still work, as you mentioned.

Actually, now I remember that Shardblades "mist" when they attack a living thing, and we know that when they are summoned they form as mist and are considered Kinetic Investiture. So... maybe it is possible to affect them when entering your body as an aluminum Misting, though the amount of Investiture you'd need to even disrupt them- much less destroying them- would be high.

I agree on the level of Investiture in Shardblades being too high for an unenhanced Misting being able to meaningfully affect, but I think it might (with some loopholes) be possible to "attack" a Shardblade entering the body of the Misting (though it would do nothing to heal or save the Misting in the process). That's a big "might" though .

I think we're on the same page, but could you elaborate just in case?

Ah shoot, that's right; Chromium affects only Kinetic Investiture (and likely A-aluminum works similarly), hence the reason Metalminds not being tapped and Hemalurgic spikes are invulnerable to such things. So, yeah, I don't think that it's possible for an Aluminum Misting to do that kind of thing at all, since the Shardblade would be in a state of Static Investiture. Maybe a Savant could overcome this, but I don't know, it feels kind of like we're picking at straws to make the idea work.

Well, it might still not be possible to burn away a Radiant Sprenblade, as the Spren has an Identity of its own to mess with the Savant's ability to burn it, and the Misting would need to have a strong enough Connection to burn Honor's and Cultivation's Godmetal alloy. Plus, a Shardblade is extremely Invested- an aluminum Savant would almost certainly have a very hard time burning enough metal in one shot to vaporize a Shardblade. Now, if you could overcome the problems with Identity, Connection, and level of Investiture necessary to destroy said Shardblade... I think you could kill the Spren, similar to how Nightblood works.

Yeah, F-gold is actually pretty powerful even without Compounding; normally it would take 3-6 months to heal from a bullet wound, but Wayne can heal from about three from only two weeks spent storing (as he mentions in AoL)- and he's probably not storing at a very high rate (WoB, most Feruchemists can only store at around 80% their normal capacity due to the strain it puts on their body for things like strength, health, and speed). I always imagined the reason Wayne could heal wounds the way he did was because his Feruchemy allowed him to focus his body's healing ability more efficiently than if it were to do so naturally; it allows all the energy that would have been expended over the whole body into a much smaller section, allowing for a much greater efficiency. Interesting. I hadn't thought of using Medallions to store while sleeping to make other attributes easier to access, but that would be a pretty powerful advantage- nobody is going to care if their thoughts or movements are sluggish while they sleep, or if they lose half of their muscle mass, but everybody would want to be able to tap those attributes whilst awake. I see no reason this wouldn't work, and it seems like a clever way to overcome some of the pains of Feruchemical storing. Good ideas!

Well, it may be that the Feruchemist could store more strength safely, since their muscles are strengthened, meaning that less muscle mass is needed to keep them around and kicking while actively storing- but if the WoB does mean that F-pewter can store the magical boost to muscle strength rather than just making it easier to store muscle mass, it could make a double-pewter Twinborn much more powerful. Yeah, A-pewter has a bunch of qualities that could be stored Feruchemically; there's a speed boost that can be stored (F-steel), a health boost (F-gold), you can stay awake longer (F-bronze), you can shrug off the effects of extreme temperature more easily (making F-brass somewhat easier to store), and the balance/dexterity increase of A-pewter could probably be stored too (F-tin, @Koloss17 ). And of course, there's strength, which at the very least would allow the Feruchemist to store more muscle mass at a given time without suffering ill-consequences. Basically, A-pewter is a great way to boost many Feruchemical powers without Compounding.

You know, I don't think that A-Atium does provide access to increased speed of thought- F-zinc is like bullet-time thought processing, but without anything else. A-Atium seems to grant one a sizable increase to one's kinesthetic intelligence by giving an instinctive knowledge of where their A-Shadows are, where they will go, and how to follow them. With that being the case, I don't think you could use F-zinc to store A-Atium's mental enhancements unless you could tweak the Metalminds a bit (basically like trying to store A-pewter's enhancement in a Pewtermind- which we don't know if possible). You might be able to store some extra Fortune with F-chromium while burning Atium though, as they seem more directly compatible (instinctive ability to follow the Aitum Shadows). As for tapping F-zinc while burning A-Atium, I think you could use it to plan a line of attack, to assess your surroundings, or to help get an edge on another Atium burner (as Atium cancels Atium), but in general I think that F-zinc wouldn't be that synergetic with A-Atium- Atium gives you an instinctive ability to react to your A-Shadows, making F-zinc's ability to assess the battlefield redundant. You could get some nice benefits from F-zinc on its own, but the two don't really help each other directly (at least in battle), I would think.

I really loved that part too; Wayne, for all his faults (at least to in-world characters) is an absolute joy to read about. I really liked how the Allomantic Grenades were improved- it was done in a very logical way and added to the character's abilities. Can't wait to see if the CopperWeb ever becomes a thing!

It does make me wonder what would happen. We know that it would do something with splicing your sDNA to that of the spike, but if it doesn't graft powers onto your Spiritweb, I'm not sure what it would do. Oh well, I guess we'll just have to RAFO

Syl independently modified herself into a net on a shield when Kaladin was fighting Amaram, so I don't think that a Shardarrow turning into a net is that big of an impossibility. though, it would have to be a small net probably, as there are size limitations on what Radiant Spren can turn into (and possibly Cognitive limitations based on perception)- you could net one or two Fused, but not an entire army.

Honestly, that sounds to me like what may happen with Sazed; a portion of his power is starting to take on a life of its own since he won't follow through with its Intent and it is starting to break off/act more independently. But who knows, that may end up not being the case and something completely different may end up happening.

ToES spoilers:

Actually, I'm not totally convinced of that; Hemalurgic duralumin might be able to do it, since it steals Connection, and Connection seems to be tied to one's skill rather than the Cognitive Aspect, as Feruchemical copper cannot transfer muscle memory. So a Hemalurgist with the right intent and level of skill may be able to steal other's skills, though not their actual knowledge (as that is tied to their Cognitive Aspect).

Hadn't thought of that, but I think it would work, considering that Elantrians can use blacksmithing or stone carving to make AonDor work- the Intent and the shape of the Aons is what would count, I believe.

On at least some parts of Nalthis, Returned are seen akin to vampires, draining the life from the living to sustain themselves. We know that Returned appear more in accordance with how they see themselves and how society sees them (WoB and other WoB), so would one of these Returned be less like a superhuman in appearance and more like an actual vampire? Plus, the whole increased physical speed and strength lends to the vampire theme as well. Now I actually really want to see Returned from other cultures on Nalthis and how they are different from the Hallendren Returned.

Why do you think those are 10/10? Not arguing or anything, I'm just curious to hear your thoughts Yeah, that's one of the big downsides of a ranking system; someone's always going to have a different opinion and will not like your own.

I was reading Elantris again this week, and something interesting came to mind as I was doing so; Elantrians can use their hands to draw the symbols of AonDor, but they can also use tools such as wands (sticks), dust, metal wires, or stone carvings. What if an Elantrian could make use of a computer to quickly type up AonDor symbols in a form modified for the computer's programming (modifying AonDor symbols is possible. WoB)? They could perhaps type up AonDor code into their computer and save it for later use, making a library of more complex effects possible on demand. Perhaps they could run a simulation on their computer that determined what the Aon did before it was activated, allowing them to fix any errors before they went off and tried to polymorph their friend. Any other ideas for what AonDor computers might allow for Elantrians?

Yeah, we'll have to ask Bandon Sanderson to find out for certain, but I think that this is a pretty logical deduction. Also, Welcome to the 17th Shard !