Trusk'our

Well, yeah, he puts it back in after Vin Ascends. It was a question that someone had asked Brandon though, and he said something along the lines that piercing yourself with enough Hemalurgic spikes will effectively pin your Spiritweb to your body better, making it somewhat harder to kill you through normal means. Hmmm, I'll have to keep looking then. I know it exists. I think I may have posted a link to it a while back somewhere in the Forums. Oh well, I need to search through them anyway for research purposes, so I guess I'll just see if I can find it when the time comes. Thanks for looking anyway, I appreciate it

Lol, sounds like fun! Welcome to the Shard friend! I hope to see your comments and opinions on some of my ideas!

From things that will be seen later in the series, it seems to be merely a matter of skill. As for why Vin didn't use it when she was so clearly talented with her Allomancy, well, not everyone can think up of everything, particularly when you have to generalize because you have sixteen powers to keep track of and you've only been consciously using your powers for about five years. Wax has been using his powers for decades and he only has two to keep track of. Yeah, before era 2 Mistborn I was seriously opposed to guns in fantasy, but now I love them as much or more than swordplay. The worldbuilding that was constructed on era 1 was probably one of my favorite aspects of era 2, most likely because I got all the references and it felt nostalgic. I felt invested in the world rather than feeling like everything was being dumped on me like in some other series. As for Marsh being regarded as a god of Death, don't feel too bad for him; a part of him really likes it, even if he isn't willing to admit it to himself Oh yeah, there are lots of crazy ways to use all the powers if you home in on them enough. F-iron has lots of applications in particular.

Thanks for the WoBs. I knew they were out there somewhere, I just couldn't find them. @Treamayne, you're probably the most proficient 17th Sharder when it comes to finding obscure WoBs or digging up quotes from books. Would you by any chance know where to find a WoB stating that Marsh was able to survive getting one of his eye spikes removed because he had so many other spikes? It's somewhat relevant to one of my theories I want to post, and I know I've seen it somewhere in the Arcanum before, I just can't for the life of me find it again.

It is in the eye socket, which is used for H-steel. I don't know if this could work the way Hemalurgy is understood currently; Gemstones trap the entire entity while spikes rip off functional pieces. If you tried to trap someone in a spike you'd probably just rip a hole in their soul. Perhaps it could be done, but you'd need to do it in a manner currently unseen. It sounds like you'd have to travel to the Cognitive Realm to spike a Spren (or Cognitive Shadow for that matter), so Spook probably traveled through Harmony's Perpendicularity to spike a Connection off Kelsier and staple it to a Mistwraith that ate Kel's bones; I agree with this as well, though I think that Kelsier had a Connection spiked from him into a Mistwraith rather than him actually existing entirely within the spike itself.

I was under the impression that a Hemalurgic spike plugged into a body stopped decaying entirely. Otherwise, there's a good chance Marsh's spikes would be drained quite significantly over the course of three and a half centuries. Also, Kandra spikes still function after a millenia of time (though they are a bit different- TenSoon's stolen Blessing of Potency was left out of a body for a year and it hadn't felt an appreciable decay while the spike Marsh made from a Smoker decayed to almost nothing in about a week). Plus, there's the fact that people have found a way to stop spikes from decaying outside a body as well, meaning that it is possible to stop entirely;

There was a WoB brought up by @..... recently that said you can Hemalurgically excise Hemalurgically granted powers; The "technically" part could be interpreted multiple ways, including the idea that you'd just reuse the spike on someone else, but for the sake of discussion let's assume Brandon meant that you can really charge a new spike with an old one. This is Interesting because it opens some new possibilities. For one, I think you could use this mechanic to Blank previously made Hemalurgic spikes; you grant F-aluminum to the Hemalurgist donor (via Hemalurgy) and have them Blank their Identity and that of the spikes they bear while charging the new one, creating a freshly Blanked spike. It also might be a way to combine the charges of other spikes, as you could give a person multiple spikes, have them Blank their Identity and then spike both charges out at once (or do them one at a time), repeating the process to make a single, far more powerful spike (there would probably be some extra loss with each transfer, but if you're recycling spikes I think the process could potentially be worth it). Then there's the idea that the Investiture taken from the Spiritwebs held in the spikes would cause less damage to the donor (the new one, not the original donor) since they aren't part of the donor's actual Spiritweb, meaning that you could realistically expect to do this more than a few times. The Emperor's Soul spoilers;

That one's a bit confusing to me; it seems like it's saying that, yes, you can charge a new spike by tearing off Spiritweb chunks from another spike implanted into a person, but the "technically" part could simply refer to taking the spike and implanting it into someone else. But for the sake of discussion let's assume Brandon meant the former. This could be interesting, but I think you'd probably have to deal with Identity contamination from having multiple donor's Identities filling one spike. Maybe that's what the "technically" was about- you can technically take those extra pieces of Investiture from the other Hemalurgist's spikes, but you can't really use them effectively as they are due to conflicting Identities. I'll have to theorize on this more now.

I sort doubt it. Silver was used in place of tin originally, and the Mistings who burned it were called Silvereyes. I think that another metal (probably one of the four not available with era 1 technology) was bumped to make room for Atium Mistings.

True, but a bigger spike could mean you could fit more extra power inside if you wanted to. But smaller spikes could be used for more discretion or for swapping them out without dying, so it's an either-or situation. Naw, only about 3/4's of them are mine I've actually got a few more to post (most of which are Hemalurgy related. Big surprise there), I've mostly just been trying to time them in such a way that people actually view it- I realized a while back when I posted 5-6 at a time that most people don't comment on them when presented like that. Just too overwhelming, I suppose. You've got to get a constant but manageable stream of posts if you want the most comments (that and posting on other Forums simlutaneously, that is).

You know, if it is a nicrosil spike they're using, it means that such spikes can provide access to Allomantic/Feruchemical powers, if only briefly. If this is true it could point towards the ability that you can take some functioning aspects of other Spiritwebs via nicrosil and not just the raw Investiture itself, such as a functional Resonance. This makes me wonder if you could take one of the many Pathian earrings, melt it into a new, larger spike, and then charge it with more non-Metalborn people to create a functional power. Perhaps even a power spike that works as the ones in era 1, as the programmed Investiture probably works under those rules. . . I believe so, yes. It's hard to keep track of sometimes. I really need to go back through the Forums and check out all my old ideas sometime- maybe they'll jog some new ones up. I remember posting that one too

There is actually some debate as to whether you could use medallions as Hemalurgic fuel; SA spoilers; Thanks! At this point, there are probably more questions/posts I've made regarding Hemalurgy than ones that have yet to someday be posted If memory serves right, the general consensus was basically the same as it was here- met with skepticism, and probably rightfully so. My conclusion was that it would be harder to pull off than filling a spike made of a single metal with four separate powers, as you not only have to deal with Identity contamination, you also have to deal with the complexity of finding a functional Bindpoint that worked for multiple Hemalurgic metals. I think that it could be done, but it's probably going to be a medium-hard in terms of what you could pull off with Hemalurgy. Yes indeed; more powers for less damage is always the best practice for Hemalurgy. Unless perhaps the other option is to fill a spike with a single power many times over to make a supercharged version of it. That could also be a very powerful tactic.

Interesting. So, you propose that you take multiple of these spikes made from non-Metalborn and implant them into a person instead of just combining the Investiture of those people into one spike? That might actually work with enough spikes, as their wouldn't be any Identity contamination preventing the Investiture from working together. Programming of Investiture (i.e., a fabricated form of Snapping) might still be necessary to make the resulting power stable. I really like this idea, as it would be a "cheap" way to make Metalborn, but would severely limit the power you could get out of it, as multiple spikes would be necessary for one functioning power (which is cool for world building or for bad guys). I don't think that the idea of using raw Investiture is to fuel Hemalurgy is that absurd; it's possible to manufacture Spiritwebs after all, which could be spiked (or directly integrated into a spike at the time of the Spiritweb's creation). Plus, once you get the Investiture to work, it doesn't really care how you got it, it just does what you want it to. Ah, yes, I've had a similar idea pop into my head at one point; the original power provides the "program" for extra Investiture from the non Metalborn power. The only thing you'd probably have to worry about is Identity contamination, so Blanking the Donor's Identity while spiking them would be necessary. I hadn't thought of giving the Invested power back to the donor though, but I could see that workin; the spike could be reused and even have its charge increased by the new donor/bearer of the spike. I do think that there would be some extra damage done to the Spiritweb from the procedure though, even if the Investiture was replaced and even increased, which may present a problem, though it wouldn't be nearly as bad as just having a piece of your Spiritweb ripped off and having nothing in return. I also want to mention, I think that most people on Scadrial have more than 5% of the Investiture needed to make a functional power- the 5% was probably referring to the maximum Investiture capacity of the spike itself. Forging the spike to act as if from a true Allomancer or Feruchemist is possible, but it would likely require a boost of power. Yup, I think that these methods are possible, and quite interesting too. Good post, enjoyable content. Other methods to produce Hemalurgic spikes? I've got a few ideas; Use F-gold via Hemalurgy to have a Metalborn store willingly give their natural power to a spike, then have them heal it back (Compounding or another external source of Investiture would be necessary for mass production. Repeated spiking may cause permanent harm, so maybe only spike a single Metalborn a few times). The Emperor's soul spoilers: Warbreaker spoilers:

I had the same idea a while back, buried somewhere in the forums. Ah, the nostalgia this topic brings up is refreshing. I think that it could be possible, though @alder24 makes a good point; there are multiple Bindpoints even in the heart, so you'd probably have to spike the Twinborn twice to steal all their powers. Plus, there are different Bindpoints involved with placing the spikes, so even if you put more powers into the same spike by spiking a Twinborn, you'd still have to make sure the Bindpoint you grafted the spike to in the recipient was able to function for both (which I suspect is possible, though it hasn't been canonically confirmed yet). Another limitation to having multiple metals for a single spike is that you'd have to make sure they belonged in the same general area on the body; steel and pewter could go together, as their Bindpoints have the same general location on the body. Brass and bronze (as you already mentioned) would work together as well, and cadmium, Bendalloy, gold, and electrum would probably all work together as a single spike. Good idea by the way @Alumínio, I like it

Yes, the Cold War of Era 3 will probably induce such brutal tactics. On the bright side, this means we'll probably see some more uses of Hemalurgy! Sorry about that, it's something that happens a lot on the Shard (used to happen to me all the time. Still does, I suppose, I just have gotten used to it and have adapted to come up with better arguments to prove my points) about that. Hemlaurgy is a confusing system, but you'll get a better hang on cracking some of its secrets in time. Keep it up friend, there are no failures, only potential lessons

Mostly that hypothesis refers to being able to fit four separate powers into a single spike with the powers all belonging to the same metal focus (i.e., a single steel spike holding A-steel, iron, pewter, and tin, but no more as they aren't part of the same Hemalurgic metal). They'd need to have the same Identity (spike a mistborn multiple times or Blank the Identity of the Donors) to make this work, but it should be possible. With the H-nicrosil, I mostly meant that you take the Investiture of the powers, but the functionality of the powers is not preserved. This is probably true. I'm mostly just trying to come up with more interesting ways that might work, as we don't know for certain yet. The one reason I think that H-nicrosil might be able to steal Resonances is because it seems to take a larger overall amount of Investiture, it just doesn't keep the powers working the same way. If the powers are taken into the same spike, a Resonance might still be able to exist between them, as they'd still have some interaction.

In the Cosmere, muscle memory, skill, and language seems to be tied to one's Spiritual aspect, while actual conscious memories are part of the Cognitive Aspect. Hemalurgy doesn't deal with the Cognitive Aspect or Physical Aspect (technically, that is; it's use can affect those parts of the Hemalurgists, but only in an indirect way by affecting the Spiritual Aspect). Warbreaker spoilers; Now, I think that you could use H-duralumin to take actual muscle memory and give it to yourself, but memories wouldn't be taken. Yumi spoilers; Now, there should still be a way to steal memories via Hemalurgy, but it's a bit convoluted: 1. Implant four or more Hemalurgic spikes into the person you want to steal memories from. Two of the spikes must provide F-copper and F-aluminum. 2. Use superpowered Emotional Allomancy (probably via A-duralumin) or lots of F-duralumin to hack into their Spiritweb and control them. This may require time to break them, and will likely be very traumatizing to the victim. 3. Force them to Blank their Identity and store the memories of your choice. 4. Retrieve the F-copper granting spike from the person and give it to yourself so you can tap their memories. Probably not easy to pull off, but the mechanics should work. It also would be evil, so there's that too.

Yeah, a "Spren" of Ruin would probably be like Nightblood in its goals; destroy everything or destroy X thing specified at time of creation. Makes sense, but what if you charged all 32 powers into an Atium spike and then Bonded it? It can potentially hold any power- it's real limitation would be the fact that you could only place it in a single Bindpoint, but Bonding it would negate that limitation. As an added bonus, it's already decently Invested so forming a self-aware piece of Investiture with it should be easier. Harder to pull off, and not something that could be created on a large scale, but it could be very powerful for a few individuals.

Interesting. I could see that being the case for Radiants, though the fact that Allomancers don't have a similar protection despite being Connected to one of the most highly Invested beings in the Cosmere makes me think that there's more separating an Allomancer's powers from a Surgebinder's Bond. I respectfully disagree with this statement; while they can both become Savants, there is a notable difference between the ways it manifests in both, meaning that there must be a difference between the mechanics of a Bond and an Allomancer's powers. True, a Connection is still a Connection, so there must be a difference in other factors at play. It's kind of part of your Spiritweb- there's still something that's separating it, otherwise the examples I gave before don't really make a lot of sense (I suppose there could be other explanations, but I can't think of any at the moment). I suppose that if you couldn't find a way to directly Bond it you could let someone else Bond it and you then steal their Bond with another spike, though the very fact that you can retain a stolen Bond by taking a part of someone else's Spiritweb should mean that you could Bond the spike directly- otherwise it wouldn't matter that you took another person's chunk of Spiritweb that held a Spren Bond and stapled it on to yourself if it counted enough as your own Spiritweb that it couldn't hold a Bond. I think the reason Hemlaurgists stealing Bonds would need to spike both the Spren and the Radiant is because the Spren has agency and isn't going to like the Hemalurgist stealing their friend's Spiritweb. As for why you don't just spike the Spren and make it Bond yourself, maybe it just doesn't hold enough sapience on its own normally to do that (in which case, you'd need to Invest it a lot more and let it gain a greater semblance of life). Or maybe you're right and you'd just need to have two spikes, one to hold the power and one to Connect it to you. I was thinking along the lines of making the Spike more aware, similar to the Malwish medallions, and giving it a Command specifically to let you Bond it (I don't think I mentioned that part. Sorry, my bad). The other option (if that fails) is to Invest the spike a lot more (via Awakening or repeated spiking of congruent Identity donors), allowing it to gain a semblance of sapience through sheer Investiture. It's not really efficient, but if you were already powerful and had the resources to do so it might be worth it to eliminate the need for more spikes. In any case, I think that the creation of a Bondable spike is going to be much harder than making most, but the payoff could be a lot more too- I do wonder that if you were to be capable of making a spike that could be Bonded if you could gain access to all Metalborn powers with it.

Nice to meet you! Hope you have a nice time on the Shard! What books have you read as of right now, and what series is your favorite?

I really should say sleep (it's 30 minutes till midnight where I am), but I've put down the answer that reflects my actions.

Oops, sorry. I could have sworn that I saw it on the Mistborn Forum screen, but I guess I was just being an idiot. Sorry about wasting your time @Chaos

One thing I want to mention, this topic really belongs in the Cosmere Forum, as it contains spoilers for Mistborn, Elantris, and Warbreaker. Ignore this, I was being stupid. Also, have you read ToES? I don't want to spoil anything there for you, so I'll hold my tongue on this topic until I know you're not going to get a spoiler.

Alright, makes sense to me. Yes, I did. Some magic systems are hard to get into, AonDor being one of them. But not all systems are difficult to access, such as Awakening, Lumar Spores, Medallion Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy. This means that there are going to probably be more people who use those magic systems in conjunction with other systems.

That has never been stated in the book. Plus, Hoid says that she Breathed life into them and gave them Commands. That's Awakening's revenue, and while AonDor should be able to replicate its effects, I find it more likely that she just traded for them. Okay, true, but it is an example of someone using more than one magic system, even if it's relatively easy to access. Yes, this is true. My point is just that she is a person who used multiple magic systems, not that it was necessarily common. How so? I don't recall that. In fact, the way AonDor worked in that book it seemed like a hack had been discovered that made it way easier.