Trusk'our

Oh come now @Koloss17, I know you love to preach about F-tin's uses as much as I love to binge-talk about Hemalurgy All valid reasons to use F-tin. I personally still feel like there are other metals that are either more versatile or can pull of more powerful feats, but tin is undeniably useful metal in many situations. Eh, if you do a lot of thinking and non-physical activities, I don't think it would be the worst thing to store some physical speed while doing so. Plus, you can just stop storing if you need to move your hand to mobilize game pieces or turn a page. Might be slightly problematic, but I figure one could learn to get used to it, especially considering the payoff. As for eye speed, yes, that should be effected too as it's a form of physical movement, though considering the speed at which your eyes normally move it wouldn't be a massive issue in most cases (again, you can tactically stop storing speed for a moment or two to get the movement you need in).

I believe that it should at least be in the top three; F-gold and F-duralumin are extremely capable as well, though I don't know which of the three comes out on top. Also, I'd like to interject that F-aluminum and F-nicrosil are primarily useful when used either in conjunction with magitech, Hemalurgy, or used by Fullborn/Halfborn/Twinborn/Full Feruchemists, so if we're talking about them in the context of a single powered Ferring I'd give them a pretty low ranking on the scale. Oh no, I done ticked off an angry Windwhisperer Koloss May you provide examples? The reason I think F-steel wouldn't be too bad to store in many cases is because it doesn't slow mental speed of the Feruchemist, so tasks that require such an attribute would be possible to complete. That means you could simply use your time performing those tasks to save up some physical speed while still being productive. Contrarily, F-tin would actually dampen your senses, which is not a useful thing in most circumstances (I can imagine at least a few, but I'd like to give you a chance to give your examples first). That's certainly true for electrum; while tapping it could potentially be very powerful depending on the individual, storing it without a hack of some kind definitely limits its usefulness for overall productivity (this is the biggest reason I feel it doesn't deserve to be in the top three metals). I don't know about duralumin though, as storing it can be useful in many situations. You could dampen other's awareness of you to sneak past guards or would be assassins, you could store your Connection to the angry boss of the office to get them to overlook you, and you could store Connection to others to form an unbiased (lol, at least as much as possible ) argument/judgement. Additionally, even if you couldn't find storing Connection useful in and of itself in too many situations, it doesn't seem to be particularly bad in most cases either. This could change as we discover more about it in the future, but for now this is my current understanding. That's fair. We don't really know a whole lot about it yet, so giving it a really high ranking probably isn't the wises decision.

I feel that F-steel deserves a significantly higher position on the list. There are two reasons behind this reasoning; first of all, I don't believe that need to increase your speed more than double or triple the normal amount to see a very powerful advantage. Even that amount would let you overwhelm almost anyone else in melee combat, let you move quickly enough to blur out of gunfire (not actually allowing you to dodge bullets at those speeds, but it would make you very hard to track or aim at effectively), could let you move around more quickly than anyone but skilled Coinshots on the battlefield, and you could easily draw, aim, and fire a gun before your enemy. It's a very, very powerful combat metal. Plus, F-steel could be useful for a whole plethora of more mundane situations. After all, what's nicer than an employee who can put together plates of food faster than anyone else? Who can load a cart in a fraction of the time it takes others? Who can get shoes shined in a few seconds before you enter a business meeting? Basically, any physical labor that needs to be done could potentially be done more quickly by a Steelrunner (in fact, The Two Seasons paper in TLM mentions that Steelrunners are, apparently, used to deliver food to some people from the Steel Kitchen. I would imagine that there must be a way to consistently use their powers to be reliable in a professional setting). The second point I'd like to make is that I think that there are a number of situations where you could store F-steel but not get a serious drawback. As the increase of mental speed is primarily due to the power redirecting a portion of the Investiture to adapt the Feruchemist to use their power, I don't think that mental speed would be greatly hampered by physical speed storage. Basically, any mental task is going to be largely unaffected by F-steel storage, so reading books, sitting a car/train/boat/plain as a passenger, working on school, or working at a desk job will not be impeded significantly by the lack of physical speed, and having something else to do that doesn't require physical speed would make storing much easier, as you could take your mind off of being so slow. Additionally, if a Feruchemist storing speed runs into difficulty functioning while in such a state (such as needing to turn a page in a book or sign a document), they can always stop storing until it's convenient again, flicking their Feruchemy on and off at a moment's notice. This doesn't mean that F-steel is necessarily easy to store, but I don't think that it's that big a deal, especially for the great power it yields in return. I wish to dispute this previously undisputed idea ; I do not believe that F-tin is the most versatile metal. That would have to go to F-chromium for giving precognitive hunches to basically any situation, F-electrum for allowing a person to push their own boundaries, again, in basically any situation, or F-duralumin for giving a limited ability to essentially edit one's Spiritweb via conscious Connection manipulation. Again, useful for nearly any situation, though it would probably require a deep understanding of Cosmere Realmatics. F-tin is nice, and in addition to simply enhancing senses I think that there are some really cool hacks to use with it, such as increasing balance to become naturally acrobatic (basically what A-pewter does but on steroids), making yourself immune to pain, and perhaps selectively dampening senses to allow for fewer distractions when needing to focus on your inner thoughts. Additionally, F-tin can't pull off Feruchemy's craziest feats; F-gold lets you survive almost anything, F-steel turns you into a speedster, F-copper lets you retain and use your knowledge way better, and F-chromium can give you a form of precognition. All in all, F-tin is useful, but I don't believe that it truly deserves to be Feruchemy's #1 metal. Can you prove me wrong @Koloss17?

The only thing I want to mention is that if Preservation's power- whether directly or through the Well- was used to make the first Feruchemists then Ruin would almost certainly have to be equally involved; Feruchemy is an equal blend of their Investiture, so it likely couldn't have been replicated by Preservation alone. If Preservation did take this roll of making Feruchemists, Ruin must have had a hand as well, perhaps with both Shards hoping to make mortal servants capable of achieving their end goals.

I believe that H-chromium does steal some form of Fortune or a similar aspect of a person's Spiritweb. The reason it's a "might" steal is probably because your own Destiny interferes and competes with the new Destiny. Plus, the future isn't a set thing in the Cosmere, so it would be impossible to guarantee that you get the outcome you want, no matter how skilled at Hemalurgy you may be. I discussed some of these possibilities on some other threads. Here's a few of them if you're interested ;

What if you had a tattoo specifically made for Feruchemists that had a much, much larger amount of Feruchemically viable metal, as you wouldn't have to worry about being poisoned because of the Investiture?

Tattoos carry various partials of metals in their ink depending on their color, such as copper (blue), iron and cadmium (red), chromium and aluminum (green), zinc (white and yellow). Does this mean that you could potentially use a tattoo with Allomantically viable metals as an exotic Metalmind that cannot easily be removed or destroyed? Additionally, we've seen from Wax that Metalmind implants must be immune to oxidization, otherwise his Ironmind implants would have poisoned him. So would a Tattoomind (Skinmind? Designmind? What's a good name for it?) be more accepted by the body and not cause irritation and possible infection like regular tattoos? I also imagine you could add more metal to the mix than a regular tattoo if you wanted (for more Feruchemical storage), as you wouldn't need to worry about it poisoning you due to its Invested nature.

No, I meant that you remove the Inquisitor's Linchpin spike, they die, and you then heal them back to a state where they no longer need the Linchpin spike (assuming they have few enough other spikes to not kill them again without having a Linchpin spike).

Quick idea here; if a person has the Surge of Regrowth used on them after dying recently- even if their death came from a Shardblade- then that individual can be brought back to life, reattaching their soul to their body. My thinking is, what if this could be done with a Hemalurgist's Linchpin spike? After all, its removal sounds a lot like how Shardblade deaths works; your soul just sort of collapses and you die instantly.

Steelrunners are a bit wonky in how they deal with physics (like F-iron); they are able to resist the force of the Gs put on their body from moving quickly, but aren't able to endure the extra heat caused by friction or air compression. The thing that I'm confused on right now is that F-steel is somewhat temporal in nature (i.e., they can even Allomantically burn their metals faster), which probably means their interaction with physical objects is similar to that of A-Bendalloy. Does this mean that if a Steelrunner punched an enemy while tapping 3x their normal speed that it still wouldn't hit with any more force than if they hadn't tapped speed, similar to how A-Bendalloy siphons off the extra energy of things that enter and exit it? What if they instead picked up a club and swung it at an enemy at 3x speed? It's not technically effected by their Feruchemy (F-steel being completely internal as opposed to A-Bendalloy), so the extra speed shouldn't be siphoned off no matter how Feruchemical speed works. But if this is the case, would the Steelrunner have to put 3x the strength into swinging it, making it much, much harder to actually use their speed? And if part of a Steelrunner's adaptation of their Spritweb to the use of steel Feruchemy is to enhance their strength to deal with this difficulty with interacting with objects at high speed, would this contribute to a Steelrunner's Feruchemical attribute being overall less efficient than other Feruchemical powers, as more Investiture must be siphoned off to deal with the consequences of using that power?

We've seen that the Messengers in the CR can track someone via Connection, so could others who could see Connection use the same method to track someone anywhere they may be? Additionally, would one go about doing this by collecting objects that have value to the person perhaps, as those are more likely to have a Connection attached to them so they could have a trail to follow? Honestly, hiding from people in the future of the Cosmere may prove somewhat difficult without F-duralumin or A-copper. (Originally, the thought of the Returned being able to read people's paintings made me think of this possibility even though it's possible that isn't necessarily related to Connection)

Cosmere healing is almost always filtered through the wielder's perception of themselves. Does this mean that, theoretically, a person could become really, really attached to an article of clothing, always wearing it and keeping it close to the extent that it could become ingrained into their perception of themselves so that when they healed (F-gold or Surgebinding) that the clothing would "heal" too? I imagine you'd almost need a form of obsession to make this work, but would it be possible to make happen?

It's mentioned in the Elantris prologue. Perhaps because Bio-Chromatic Breaths are primarily PR based instead of SR based? Maybe they have a harder time seeping into your attributes to boost them because of this?

I would totally be down for an Allomancy thread and definitely down for a Hemalurgy thread (though many of the applications may be viable for multiple metals, I've found), but yeah, if you want to take a break, by all means go ahead @Koloss17

@Treamayne and @alder24, you guys make some interesting points. Also, @Treamayne I want to clarify, I meant that you would be dividing the Investiture of a Divine Breath to split its effects amongst multiple people, not actual Hemalurgically viable attributes (I can see, looking back, that was a dumb way for me to convey that information. I should have said "Investiture" not "attributes", even if they are sometimes used by Brandon interchangeably, as we on the Shard don't use them interchangeably. I will endeavor to be clearer in the future.) One thing I had previously assumed was that a Divine Breath specifically that allowed the Returned to have superhuman speed and strength, but it from you guys it would seem that this is merely a function of being highly Invested. Would an Elantiran's extra speed and strength be tied to this as well, do you think? Also, does this mean that if you got enough Investiture via H-nicrosil through some other means that you could replicate these physical enhancements and appearance altering without ever needing to meddle with Nalthis or its Investiture?

Divine Breaths are large chunks of Investiture that grant multiple beneficial qualities to their bearers; they get augmented speed and strength, they can alter their appearance in limited ways, they can have visions of the future as they dream, and of course, they get the benefits of the Heightenings. Hemalurgically spiking such attributes abilities via the Investiture from a Returned is tempting, but there is a lot of Investiture contained within a Divine Breath. There's a good chance that a single spike simply cannot contain that much Investiture within it without some kind of modification (which we don't know for certain whether can be done right now). So instead of wasting that extra Investiture, could a Hemalurgist with the right Command deliberately excise only a fraction of the Breath and repeat the process multiple times to give multiple people some of the benefits of a Divine Breath? After all, the those with the Royal Locks have fragments of Divine Breaths they could benefit from if they allowed themselves to;

We saw in BoM that the Malwish medallion tech can be used to allow people to store with Feruchemical iron even when asleep, as the medallions have an Identity and awareness of their own; I think that this could be amazingly convenient if it could be extended towards other Feruchemical attributes, as then you would be able to ignore the worst of the side effects while still being able to benefit from the stored attributes later. Compounding may not even be necessary in later eras of Scadrial if they could just have enough donors store attributes this way. Mental speed, physical speed, strength, Fortune, determination, senses, Investiture, and Connection would all be way easier to get ahold of if you were sleeping the eight hours of being 40-60% underpowered away. It would barely be an inconvenience in most cases, to be honest. EDIT: alright @alder24, I'm going to summon your attention to this topic directly, as it somehow seems to have slipped past your notice. How's it wrong?

Yeah, this one is a really weird power, that's for sure. I can imagine what storing is like (I mean, I've felt times where I was depressed and didn't feel like doing anything, even the things I normally love before), but I don't really know how it would work when tapped in large amounts would work- after all, that's one of the biggest bonuses of most Feruchemical powers; being able to tap them at an accelerated rate to get superhuman attributes temporarily. I'd actually really like to see how F-electrum tapped at 500% (or more) one's normal capacity would look like. Would you become a workaholic, being able to power through fatigue, discomfort, and pain to quickly accomplish a necessary task? Could you resist the Flaw of bearing too many Hemalurgic spikes if another entity attempts to control you? Could it also be related to focus, allowing you to zero in on a task, allowing you to access "the flow" on demand so that you could really appreciate and do your best at pretty much any task you were given? Honestly, this might end up being a very powerful metal, depending on how it works; we always love to talk about what could be done, how we could achieve certain end results through our work, but in my experience it's rare to really have that happen (often in myself when I, for some reason, don't try as hard as I feel I could have). F-electrum may make this happen, not necessarily giving you more potential (though that point could be argued), but allowing you to use the potential you always had to achieve your end goals. Anyway, thank you @Koloss17 for making this thread. It was a blast being able to systematically go through each Feruchemical power and really dig into what could be done for each one! With all the ideas that came up for the various metals I honestly don't think that there is a "weak" Feruchemical power anymore, just different options for the creative. By the way, do you think you'll do a thread about all the Allomantic powers at some point?

On Roshar you can have a Polestone that is perfect- it has no flaws in its crystalline structure. Doing so means that it does not leak Investiture naturally and can have lots more Investiture squeezed into it than normal. I wonder if the same could be done with Hemalurgic metals. After all, metal has its own crystalline structure, so perhaps if people found a way to perfect it with advancements in technology you could get similar benefits to that of perfect Polestones; never having worry about Hemalurgic Decay and being to shove far, far more Investiture inside a single spike than would normally be possible (maybe this is how Hemalurgic Decay is a "thing of the past" according to Khriss. This is, obviously, speculative in nature and she could be referring to some other practice or phenomenon). Perhaps something similar could be done with Feruchemical Metalminds, allowing for much larger Feruchemical stores to be kept on person (probably only necessary for extreme Compounders) with comparatively little metal (in fact, maybe this was part of what allowed the Bands of Mourning to get as Invested as they were, but that is also purely speculative). I wondered if this could be extended to Allomancy too, but after some thought it seems doubtful; Allomantic stores aren't a matter of a perfected molecular structure, but more a matter of the metal's total mass, so this would not help in this situation. Perhaps if you could compress more metal into a smaller, more consumable vessel (highly dense beads, most likely) you could get more Allomantic stores with less stomach space, though their weight would increase proportionally.

Nice! I'm excited to hear them Now if I can just get my little sister to finish Hero of Ages, I'll be all set.

I'd honestly give this a solid 9/10 (but not 10, as it isn't good for augmenting/allowing for a whole lot of things, such as A-pewter or A-steel), personally; while storing it does rather suck, you can use it to save your life in almost any situation- even after you've messed up and received a mortal injury (which will happen you at some point if you live long enough, especially with forms of Cosmere longevity being a real option). That's a big deal. Additionally, you can use it to regenerate from some terrible, terrible injuries that would otherwise leave you permanently crippled. Wayne, for instance, has regrown fingers, restored a severed spinal cord, shrugged off gut wounds (without needing to worry about the effects of sepsis), drunk and survived poison, made it out of being torn in half by a cannonball at some point, and has walked out of a serious explosion with no lingering ill effects while being able to rescue his friends. I'd say replacing bones and healthy body parts with the aid of F-gold is probably not wise; it doesn't keep the metals from corroding and eventually poisoning you (though a Feruchemical or Hemalurgic charge does seem to do this, otherwise Wax's Ironmind implants would have eventually ended up killing him), and you can't continually tap F-gold to prevent that if you want to maintain your stores for emergencies. Keeping weapons or tools embedded in the skin seems more viable though- body piercings don't seem to have any trouble resisting A-steel/iron, even when the body has healed around the metal (and it can be removed and replaced without this problem either). I could see this being a useful ability. It's also possible to use F-gold in the creation of Hemalurgic spikes, and though it would certainly be more costly (it takes a lot of health to restore a lost power), being able to have people donate powers and attributes without permanent damage would make the option much more available and justifiable morally speaking. Wayne always feels a sense of extra energy from tapping F-gold, so I think it's possible that you could use it in small, controlled amounts to give yourself extra stamina when performing feats of endurance. We also see Wayne use F-gold to help him imitate Ironeyes by cutting a hole in his arm to better intimidate his suspect. It's rather hard to get that quality of realism for your disguise any other way, which makes me think F-gold could be used for intimidation and certain disguises (similar to how F-pewter could help one avoid a fight altogether or inspire others with their powerful physique). F-gold can also be used to better align one's Physical Aspect with their Cognitive Aspect. For example, it can allow a transgender person to fully transition, so I think that if someone had a way to alter their Cognitive Aspect (intense mental conditioning or F-copper) they could alter their body in other ways, such as changing who they appear to be (becoming a doppelganger of someone else- could make a perfect body double when a Kandra isn't available), it could allow someone to potentially cure certain chronic conditions (such as poor eyesight, allergies, or maybe even some autoimmune diseases), and it might be able to permanently augment the body with enough knowledge and effort (increasing bone and muscle density, heightening the body's red blood cell count for better oxygenation, or improving other organs across the body). Some of these would be hard to do, but with advancements in Scadrien technology I think that F-gold could allow these sorts of things to be done.

I see no reason why not. A Kandra making use of F-cadmium might be able to do it even better, as they could find an airborne toxin they could simply make themselves immune to and store a ton of in a Cadmiummind.

A very high-quality rock. It even has some moss on it .

And "trades" everyone's wands and spell books for stuff out of the trash bin .