Trusk'our

True. Still, if you want to make a non-aluminum non Metalmind metal weapon that is resistant to Allomancy, I think that this would be a possibility.

When someone comes back to life as a Returned, they naturally appear as a "perfect" version of themselves based on their own perception and their society's perception. Even if it would be hard, it is possible for a non Nalthian to Return, so if a Koloss-blooded person were to Return, would/could they turn into a full Koloss but without needing any Hemalurgic spikes due to their perception of them and their society's perception of them? And vice versa, if a full Koloss that was unwillingly made into one were to die and become a Returned, would they be able to reject their spikes and live as a human again (okay, a Returned human, but you get the idea) due to their perception?

I had an idea for an NPC in a Mistborn setting (D&d homebrew) where they were a blacksmith that had tinkered with making specialized Metalminds and Allomantic fuel for the PCs. Basically, the idea was that this NPC was a Spinner Ferring and got black out drunk one night, then in their stupor Tapped about a year's worth of Fortune and in the process made some kind of McGuffin item that eventually needs to be recovered after being stolen by some bad guys (and can't be replicated because they still don't remember most of that night ). But in any case, this got me wondering, what would happen if a Spinner were to Tap Fortune while being drunk? Would it be beneficial or detrimental to their following Fortune (okay, probably the former, but still, good to ask others' opinions)?

Indeed. Actually, Ishar's Honorblade did pretty well at resisting Nightblood's attack despite probably being less Invested than the literal Vessel of Odium, and we all know how that turned out for Rayse. I think that a metal that is Invested will better resist Shardblades then, hence the reasoning for a highly Invested person attaching the sword via wire to themselves. I mean, at first, yes, I suppose it would hurt, but neither Wax nor Wayne have issues with their Metalmind implants as of TLM, so I don't think it's that large of an issue. And if you're really concerned about the pain aspect, I suppose you could equip F-tin and store your ability to feel pain. Well, I suppose since we've seen a similar level of power from the Bands of Mourning it's probably possible to at least get that much power into a spike. So, maybe it wouldn't be necessary for storage in most cases then.

We know that it's possible to pierce yourself with metal or swallow it in order for it to receive a level of protection from others' Allomantic Pushes and Pulls. But what if you try to use that mechanic a step further? What if you take a weapon and weld a flexible wire to it, then pierce yourself with that wire? Could you grant your weapon resistance to Pushing and Pulling while not needing to make it of aluminum or Investing it directly? And what if you were to Invest yourself more fully (Hemalurgic spikes, Breaths, etc.) and were to then clash with a Shardblade? Would your own soul's Investiture prevent the Shardblade from immediately shearing cleanly through your weapon due to the interference? And would it damage your own soul even though it's not directly hit by the Shardblade? Edit: oh, and could this potentially be a way to possess a much larger Hemalurgic spike? After all, if you can take a Koloss blade and Invest it with a power, then use the wire to pierce the correct Bindpoint, you now have a much, much larger storage space for your Hemalurgic Investiture.

Nice to meet you! Welcome to the Shard (formally, that is). What magic system is your favorite in the Cosmere?

I love this idea so much. As @NerdyAarakocra said, there would be a hard cap. . . but, I think you could at least make it so that the stamp could say you had the natural talent of a prodigy and had spent literally all of your time training that particular skillset. So all in all, I'd say that this would be the best essence mark to invest your time in first. I don't know that I follow your tail of thought; wouldn't even very good essence marks just fail after about twenty-six hours, meaning that you could just make a good one that will inevitably fail and allow for the newer mark to be used?

Woo hoo! We finally get to hear the big guys talk about the most interesting magic system! I will say, I hadn't considered the possibility of the Donor's Bindpoint effecting the spike's Identity before. Edit: just finished listening to the podcast (it was really good, thanks guys ) and there were a couple questions you had that I found WoBs to answer: 1. Hemalurgic donors are actually worse off than Drabs (WoB). Perhaps this has to do with the process of ripping off their latent Investiture than the amount taken compared to a Nalthian Breath, but regardless, it doesn't leave them in good condition at all. 2. Steel Inquisitors don't all age more quickly than normal (WoB). Some do, but some live longer depending on the specific power set they receive. I also thought the idea of Identity decaying off of pre Catacendre spikes to allow for Compounding to be quite interesting. My personal hypothesis for it as of right now is that since Ruin was actively pushing into the Spritwebs of people in any way he could, that made more pathways in the Spiritwebs of Hemalurgists to mix and meld together, which consequently allowed for Compounding. However, when Ruin became subservient to Preservation, those pressures from Ruin's Investiture stopped, meaning that the spikes lost those extra avenues in the soul and became more separated from the rest of the Hemalurgist's Spritweb, so Identity contamination would become an issue. I hope you really cool guys find this at least a little useful

I like it! That feels like a very clever use of the power, especially if you can use it to more safely get access to more Fortune at a later date.

I respectfully wish to disagree; I believe Brandon is speaking about Tapping more in general, not necessarily about the actual rate at which the attribute was originally Stored. Essentially, my current belief is that since Storing doesn't take into account the necessity of adapting your Spiritweb to use the power, storing at 5% for 20 minutes equals the same amount of stored attribute as Storing at 20% for 5 minutes. However, this is not confirmed at this point, so it could be as you say. Depends on the circumstance; if you know that you don't need a ton of extra brain power for a task you've done hundreds of times before or is just mind-numbingly simple, I could see it be very wise, as it gives you "free" mental speed to use later when you really need it. But, yeah, there would always be some risk something hazardous coming up while reducing your brainpower, so it's more about the risk versus reward of the situation and trying to get the most efficiency possible (though training yourself to automatically stop Storing when such occurrences happen could potentially be achievable, further mitigating this issue).

Glad to hear about someone as passionate about a magic system as I am about Hemalurgy

Hypothetically? yes, as we've seen it be used before, such as with Spren and their Radiants. I don't think it would be that big of a jump to say that you could engineer an Awakened cybernetic limb to act as your own by utilizing Connection. Heck, there are translation tablets that the Nalthians constructed via manipulating Connection in the Cosmere's future, and we've seen from TLM that there can be Awakened locks that rely on Intent. Probably yes, as telepathy seems to utilize Connection in the Cosmere. If you could manipulate Connection over greater distances, you could probably remotely Awaken too from much greater distances.

With another Dragonsteel convention, there are some new WoB, many of which have some very interesting implications. For instance, this one caught my attention: So here's a couple hypotheses that spawned from this: 1. Let's say Wax were to have his Allomancy stolen by the Set with a Hemalurgic spike. Harmony doesn't like that his Sword is now weakened, so has Marsh create an Unsealed Duraluminmind that holds Connection to Harmony and his Mists, then gives it to Wax so he can Tap the Connection and at least temporarily restore his Allomancy (yes, F-gold via Hemalurgy or possibly Unsealed Goldmind would be better, but this is a hypothetical), as he is quite familiar with the power; his soul has become permeated with its essence, and his Cognitive aspect remembers using it clearly. Basically, would you think this is enough for him to re-access his lost power, as he still remembers the input to command the Investiture and as a Scadrien he probably wouldn't have an Identity issue? 2. Here's another one to stretch the limits a bit more. What if a well-practiced Allomancer/Feruchemist were to store memories of them using their power(s) in an Unsealed Coppermind and they gave it to another Scadrien, though on that doesn't naturally have powers. That non-Metalborn then Taps those memories and draws on some Unkeyed Investiture. Do they have the ability to direct that Investiture in a similar fashion to the powers of person whose memories they Tapped? 3. If a Scadrien were to Tap lots of Connection to Scadrial's land, Harmony, or Preservation (might be a little interchangeable, as they Connect to each other so much) via Duralumin Compounding, could they draw in the Mists when in them to act in a similar fashion the Unkeyed Dor? If Identity to Harmony is still somehow an issue, then Blank Identity as well while you're at it.

I'd say copper may be better than zinc, as zinc is more about thinking things through more quickly, while copper (BoM) has been shown to be able to show imagery quite clearly, which would help with visualization. For example, it might be easier to visualize a highly complicated task by pre-recording it in a Coppermind and Tapping it when giving the Command. Connection might be able to make learning new Commands easier when Tapped, though that might just be Investiture itself. Speaking of Investiture, the most obvious power that links in to Awakening is Nicrosil. Still don't know entirely how it works, but you might be able to at least temporarily get "free" Breaths.

As @alder24 said, it really depends on a lot of factors. If we're talking about the standard Steel Inquisitor pre HoA, even one who's a natural Mistborn, then they get curbstomped by basically any decently skilled 3rd oath Radiant of any order. If we're talking about HoA ones, it still depends. What Feruchemical powers do they have? Do they know Compounding? Do they have access to modern metals, such as chromium and Nicrosil? It depends on a ton of different factors, especially for Inquisitors as they can vary so much in their powers,, but if the Inquisitor has so many spikes that they're basically a Fullborn, then they're a Fullborn (for the purposes of determining whether they'd win a fight at least).

True. Compounds are on a whole new level, as unlike other Feruchemists they don't have to worry about scrounging for attribute stores. Well, by the end you're only Tapping it at 100% in the calculation (you could Tap higher, I was just making a point on what you could realistically get out of it), but at that rate your body isn't siphoning off a ton of extra Investiture in order to alter your spiritual aspect to protect against the dangers of the power. Basically, my train of thought currently is that storing is mostly going to be at the same efficiency as you're not accounting for that lost Investiture, but when Tapping larger amounts it gets less and less efficient due to that necessary loss. So, perhaps it would be more like 45-46 minutes instead of 48, but I don't think the loss would be that significant when only doubling your attribute. It probably depends mostly on what you're used to, but if you're new to the tactic it could prove frustrating to your sleeping patterns. I also find it worth mentioning that Allomancers don't typically have an issue with maintainint their burning while performing other activities, so perhaps Tapping with Feruchemy is similar in nature. Exactly; if it's something you don't need to consciously think about, you can probably afford to store with F-zinc while performing that task. Thank you. I appreciate it friend

Yup, the Fullborn wins outright unless the author decides to pull a deus ex machina; Compounding physical speed alone should be enough to take out the Bondsmith, but a Full Feruchemist and Mistborn is just overkill.

Thank you! I don't think I've ever made a post with this much appreciation before

Thanks so much! That means a lot to me. Eh, he's not 100% trustworthy, but if I recall it was Wax who mentioned in AoL that Wayne liked to use that strategy, and Wax has known Wayne pretty well for a while. But yeah, storing lots of health while having a 72% alcohol to blood ratio is going to wreak havoc on your liver. . . and brain. . . huh, maybe that's part of why Wayne is so, well, Wayne Personally, I think it might be even harder than steel, at least for someone like me who likes to daydream about random Cosmere stuff more than they run around. But now that you mention it, perhaps reducing your mental speed to help fool others into underestimating you, and you can later Tap mental speed to get even more advantage. Lol, so true

Yup, makes perfect sense to me. I will say though, @alder24 is right; a regular A-copper spike or natural Smoker isn't going to grant you total immunity, just added resistance. Now, I will add that if you were to find a way to augment your A-copper without needing to add more than one additional spike (ahem, supercharging it) or using some other method (F-nicrosil, assuming it actually can work to augment your Allomancy) then you could get much, much more resistance. I will also say, I think that it is theoretically possible to become fully immune to a Shard's influence via A-copper, as a Shard seems only able to exert a certain amount of influence on a Hemalurgist based on how many spikes they have. Otherwise, any crack in the Spiritweb would be enough for a being with virtually unlimited Investiture to forcefully control them, which is just not the case. As such, I believe that there would be a sort of "balance" necessary to stave off their control; you'd need to have strong enough A-copper to push back the Investiture the Shard is capable of squeezing through the cracks in your Spiritweb, though not the entire Shard's power.

I haven't been too active on the Shard for a bit (needed a break), but I've got some more ideas to post! I was thinking on what kinds of tactics a Feruchemst could realistically use to get as much attributes stored as possible with as little drawbacks (with no hacks involved), and I came up with a few general options. 1. Sick Day: this tactic is the one Wayne typically uses; you store lots of a particular attribute all at once in order to get a sizable amount. This is very debilitating however and will often prevent you from functioning well. In many cases, you'd actually need to take a sick day in order do this, as it could prove too disruptive to let you be very productive in work, school, or other activities. 2. Bit by Bit: this tactic revolves around always storing but at a much, much slower rate. Storing about 5% of an attribute is not going to significantly impede your ability to function, and if you store for 16 hours a day, you'd get about 48 minutes of doubling your attribute (16 hours x 60 for minutes /20 for 100% Tapping = 48). Per day (not accounting for compression loss). 3. Bedtime: this tactic hinges on the fact that the average person takes between 10 to 20 minutes to fall asleep each night (link, link#2, link#3). You aren't doing anything during that time (at least not if you actually want to fall asleep), so that makes it prime time to store attributes for later. Even if the time itself is short, you can afford to store at a much higher rate depending on the attribute (physical and mental speed maybe even 80-90%). 4. Flicker: this tactic requires the most skill and attention, and the actual opportunities you'd have to use it would vary greatly depending on the metal. Basically, if you find yourself performing a task that doesn't need much of a particular attribute, you can use that time to siphon some off into a Metalmind for when you do need it (i.e., strength isn't needed for reading a book or listening to a phone call). Those are the basic tactics I could think of for Feruchemy, though each metal has its own quirks for storing. Iron: we get a pretty good example of how storing would look for this metal from Wax. He stores about 1/3 or 33.3% of his weight all the time, as its actually rather beneficial in most cases. Iron definitely follows the Bit by Bit tactic, though you can and should store more than the amount the method is normally devised for. Steel: this attribute is probably one of the most powerful, but storing would be a real pain. . . except that there actually should be plenty of opportunities to store without too much hassle for its worth. 5% of one's speed via the Bit by Bit tactic is probably not insurmountable to overcome with some practice (most people don't walk or interact with objects as fast as they could. I know I don't, though it probably would be more beneficial if I did), and though doing it at first would be annoying, I think you could get used to it. Plus, storing 90% of your speed over the course of 10 minutes or so when you are falling asleep could be quite useful for later if you need a quick burst. The slowing of your need and ability to breath might even make it easier to fall asleep once you get acquainted with it. Finally, the Flicker tactic could be used in many cases, as Sazed in WoA (chapter 50) shows us that storing physical speed doesn't slow down one's recognition of the surrounding environment, just the speed at which you can interact with it. Basically, any mental task or sensory task (reading, listening, or mentally calculating) isn't going be negatively affected by storing physical speed. Tin: similar to steel, I think that there are plenty of opportunities you could find where storing would be very easy to do, and some of which might even be directly beneficial. You could store smell, taste, and some touch most of the time, as those senses aren't' used by humans all that much but Tapping them in large amounts later would make them useful. Storing hearing and sight would prove more difficult, but glasses can help mitigate the loss of vision and hearing aids can help a temporary loss of hearing. Additionally, you could focus on a visual project while storing hearing in order to focus better (keeping noisy people around you from irritating and distracting you while you do your math or work) and you don't need good vision to listen to a podcast or audiobook. Pewter: this metal has some of the most variability when it comes to storing I believe. If you were to use the Bit by Bit method, you may be able to increase your natural muscle building by allowing it to work harder in normal everyday tasks. According to Healthline, a study by PubMed Central says you can expect to get more rapid muscle gains at first, but only slow gains after your body begins to adapt. As such, reducing your strength a little should make it easier for your body to build up more and more natural strength, which can then be siphoned off into a Metalmind until needed. A Brute devoted to using their power would not only have a temporary edge in regard to strength, but an edge in building natural muscle (which also gives more of an edge to their temporary strength enhancement). Zinc: It would probably prove harder to store this particular metal, as it would reduce the speed and ease at which your mind processes information. Sazed's storing of mental speed in WoA (chapter 50) shows us that while there is no delay in which you see the world, understanding the meaning would be slower and more difficult. That does mean you might be able to understand things you know well with less difficulty, but figuring out new things and general adaptability would be harder. So, a Bit by Bit tactic might work, though you'd have to be careful not to use it when dealing with tasks that require any measure of quick thinking (such as driving or operating heavy equipment). You might be able to get away dealing with tasks you have down to a tee as you don't require much forethought to accomplish them, meaning any sort of repetitive labor or job you've done hundreds of times before isn't going to be seriously impaired by storing mental speed (I wonder if it would feel soothing even, when doing a boring job). I suppose listening to music wouldn't require speed of thought, so if you like to do that to wind down that might be a prime time to store with zinc. You could almost certainly store mental speed when falling asleep, as you need to spend that time slowing down your thought process anyway (might even be useful to fall asleep). Brass: storing heat is probably one of the easiest attributes to gets lots of very quickly. Simply go to an area that is very, very hot and store the excess heat, such as a hot tub or going for a jog outside on a hot day in winter gear. You could also use the Bit by Bit method by wearing heavier clothing, and wouldn't ever need to worry about getting too hot. The same would apply for exercising, and as a bonus would make it easier to keep exercising without overheating. Copper: this metal is different from the others, as you cannot just store percentages, you must store specific, individual pieces of information in the Coppermind. Sazed and the other Keepers would train themselves to have better memories, allowing them to better hold the information they Tapped so that it could be returned to their Copperminds after use. Additionally, they would form catalogs in their Copperminds to sort through their contents more easily. Bronze: this metal is also different from the norm, as it is the only attribute you can store while sleeping. I think that the best strategy would be to etch out an extra 30 to 60 minutes a day to sleep while storing wakefulness in a Bronzemind. Actually, you could probably go to sleep immediately instead of needing to wait the 10 to 20 minutes, since F-bronze can allow you to sleep on demand (WoB), so you could use that time to save up for later. With that in mind, only needing between 10 to 50 minutes on top of your normal schedule wouldn't be too bad if you set things up right (I suppose it depends on how busy your schedule normally is and when you choose to go to bed). Cadmium: needing to constantly hyperventilate to get enough oxygen would get annoying, but if you use the Bit by Bit tactic it probably wouldn't be too bad with some experience. Bendalloy: this one would actually be nice for many of my fellow Americans; just eat an extra helping of food and drink and extra couple glasses of water at mealtime without gaining weight. Gold: this is a tough one, as storing for a prolonged period of time will weaken your immune system to the point that pathogens with make you sick, and any allergies you may have will act up. Wayne's tactic for shoring up an emergency reserve of health is to spend a week or two in bed saving up health in large amounts getting absolutely black out drunk so that he doesn't have to suffer so much from the illness storing health brings. I wonder if you could also stagger storing to help prevent infections from occuring. Basically, if you followed the Bit by Bit tactic but made sure to store for a little while, then gave stopped to let your body catch up with fighting pathogens, then continued storing again. Electrum: storing the ability to have the willpower/emotional energy to do something. Sounds like it would be difficult by its very nature, but I suppose you could mitigate this to some degree by using the Bit by Bit and Bedtime tactics. Chromium: we don't know too much about Fortune at this point, but it seems that, in essence, it allows one to know things they wouldn't otherwise know and can lead to circumstances that seem to be coincidental by accessing the SR (i.e., Hoid knowing where he needs to go). I believe that a Spinner Ferring would probably be less aware or have lessened instincts when storing, which would be similar to zinc in its ability to directly affect you decision making ability. As I understand it right now, there realistically is no time that Tapping some Fortune wouldn't be useful, so the best course of action for storing would be to deliberately choose times where the probability to make poor decisions or be harmed through misfortune would be lessened (reading a book, lying in bed, or any other passive action). In any case, a Spinner would almost certainly find the best time to store Fortune when falling asleep, as there generally aren't any major decisions made during this time. Nicrosil: we know very little about this metal as well, and on its own it wouldn't be very useful. But, if you can store it at a certain rate to later Tap and increase the strength of your other powers, then a Twinborn (or possibly Hemalurgist) would find the Flicker method to be quite useful; as long as they aren't actively using their Allomancy, they can store it as fast as possible to get the maximum effect. If this is true, storing Nicrosil would be pretty easy in most cases. Aluminum: we also don't know too much about this metal (we don't even know that you can keep a Feruchemical charge in it, perhaps you can only Blank your Identity). I'm not even going to bother dealing with this one, as we just don't know enough to hypothesize effectively and a lot of the evidence we do have is Cosmere relevant. Duralumin: another one we know little about, but we do know that a Connector Ferring can increase the speed at which they form friendships with others by Tapping the right kind of Connection and they can fly under the radar of others by storing their Connection to them. This one is going to be more circumstance relevant I believe, but the Flicker method might prove most useful, as you can either choose to fly under others' notice or to make fast friends with others.

I believe that it's possible the device they used was the same type that Wax used to tell that Harmonium and Trellium were Godmetals- they gave off a certain wavelength when an electric current was run through them (I think. It's been a bit since I've read the book and I don't have it on me right now). Perhaps the more Investiture is in a metal, the more light is emitted when an electric current flows through it, which by extension could be measured. This is how I imagined them measuring the Investiture of the spikes.

Alright, here's a very, very rough draft of some of the ideas I've come up with thus far. There's quite a bit that will need to be changed or added, but I this is (barely) good enough to show off. Allomancy rules: I still am not totally sure how I want to tackle A-duralumin. Perhaps instead of just augmenting the base power briefly it grants a separate ability (such as a single, very powerful attack for pewter or a mile long jump for steel) that can be used at the expense of burning through all your Allomantic charges currently ingested. I'm also not really satisfied with Allomantic iron or steel yet, but I'm not completely sure how I should handle them. Ideas would be especially appreciated here. Feruchemy rules: I have a couple here that definitely need more stuff available to them (like Bendalloy and cadmium), but I'm happy with the overall state of Feruchemy's game mechanics. Hemalurgy rules: This one, sadly, is rather empty except for simply adding or augmenting powers as of right now, but I will definitely see to it that it gets its proper due. Feats: I felt that these should be more a representation of skill than power, hence the reason they don't always give boosts to the raw power of the abilities. Compounding rules: I'd like to get medallions, Savantism (don't know if it should be a feat or something else), and Godmetals fleshed out a little more before presenting them. Any critiques and ideas would be appreciated!

Sure! I'd be happy to give my input. I probably won't be able to focus too much on it until Saturday though, as I really need to be getting to bed and Friday is by far my busiest day of the week.