Trusk'our

Ah, okay. Thanks for the responses, this all makes a lot more sense to me now! Clearly, it's been a while since I learned about genetics, as I had originally assumed that the Terris elite wanted to bring back a "pure" Feruchemical lineage- someone with only Terris genes- in order to restore Full Feruchemists. But it seems like that's just not necessary to restore Full Feruchemists.

In BoM, the Kandra VenDell mentioned that the Terris elite were doing their best to condense their bloodlines in the attempt to restore the power of Feruchemy, which could supposedly bring back Full Feruchemists. My question is, does this even sound possible? Can you condense the genetic code of a specific "watered-down" lineage over time to eventually restore it, effectively increasing the DNA percentage of lost bloodline in the new generation? I might be thinking about this the wrong way (if so, please correct me), but wouldn't the child of two half Terris still be only half Terris genetically? And, even if it were possible to condense the bloodlines to restore Full Feruchemists, wouldn't that cause inbreeding? Now, I know we're not talking about physical DNA, but spiritual DNA, which works by different rules, but there have to be some similarities between the two, and we only have real knowledge on physical DNA to work with. I did try to Google this question first so as to not waste any of your time, but I couldn't find an answer to my question, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

So. . . I assume you mean as in they destroy any other opponent? Not a bad idea. Rasheki or something may be usable, I'd say. Yeah, I'd still say that Fullborn works pretty well.

Indeed, an era 4 Mistborn/cyborg; Mistborb

That is the correct answer (at least in my opinion ). Mine too! When first reading era 2 I wanted Mistborb and Full Ferchemists back, but I quickly grew to love the limitations of only having one or two powers. Also, I too love the measurability of the Heightening's power. That way you can calculate and know stuff. I really love how Hemalurgy can: 1. Give powers to anyone with the right knowledge. And 2. It's also somewhat measurable, and we'll get better measurements for it later in the series.

Yeah, in WoR he had to consciously "push" to heal the spiritual damage, so at least for Spiritweb damage you must consciously choose to heal. I wonder if this is because that brand of healing uses the Spiritual Aspect as a blueprint for healing. So maybe when that's compromised you must rely on the Cognitive Aspect to provide the blueprints. Wasn't there a WoB that said that the more Invested you were the more your Cognitive Aspect came into play when using Investiture to heal? I can't remember where exactly, but I feel like there was a time where Kaladin's Stormlight ran out, healing his most severe injuries, but leaving the lesser ones present. This is also how Wayne's health works; it automatically targets the most serious damage, leaving lesser injuries alone until the really bad stuff has been taken care of. In terms of Invested healing efficiency, I don't know how to compare Feruchemy to Surgebinding, but I do know that Surgebinding gets more efficient as they scale in oaths. Stormlight is much, much easier to get ahold of than gold or shoring up health the old fashioned way, but it is at the disadvantage of leaking while Goldminds don't. You can also get Goldmind implants to keep them safe, which may put them at an advantage compared to Stormlight gemstones, as they can be stolen or broken more easily. And then of course there's also the fact that Feruchemy can compress itself to work faster, as @Duxreduxsaid. Lastly, a gold Compounder has the ability to become a Savant much more easily than a Surgebinder, with all the pros and cons associated. All in all, it's a tradeoff; a Surgebinder has cheapness and ease of access to Investiture, and they get more efficient as they progress in their oaths. A gold Compounder has ease of storage, rate over efficiency advantage, and can more easily harness Savantism.

As my two-thousandth, two-hundredth, twenty-second post, I wanted to do something a little special. So, I think now is the best time to dump a stockpile of memes I made (plus one I found earlier today). Enjoy Mistborn spoilers; More Mistborn spoilers; Probably counts as a Mistborn spoiler; Era 2 Mistborn spoilers; Warbreaker spoilers; Mistborn Secret History spoilers; Just to be on the safe side, Mistborn spoilers; Stormlight and Mistborn spoilers; Aaaaaand, that's all I've got for right now. Hope you got a good laugh!

Huh. Interesting.

They have a movie?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so. I did kind of enjoy JK Studios' Freelancers series (it might be fun to do a comic series with a similar tone in the Mistborn era 3 setting someday ), but I honestly preferred their Studio C work more. Interesting. I'll have to give it a watch.

My family used to watch a ton of Studio C on YouTube; it was a great experience for all of us. Unfortunately, the new cast just. . . doesn't hit it like 98% of the time, and we just kinda gave up on it after a while. And we have definitely watched the Chosen! It's so, so good! I literally cry every episode, and I can't wait for the next season!

I do feel like mentioning that most Compounding (with the exception of nicrosil) does not affect the power of one's Allomancy, but instead allows you to effectively increase the power of your Feruchemy by fueling it much more efficiently and at much less personal cost. The reason his Allomancy was so overpowered is not because of Compounding, but because he made himself a crazily powerful Mistborn via the Well of Ascension (WoB). It is almost certainly possible to increase the strength of your Allomancy by utilizing Feruchemical nicrosil though, so if you wanted to have stronger Allomancy as a Fullborn, Storing (or Compounding) nicrosil for later use may be the way to go.

Hmm, you're right. Okay, it must not be Intent. Perhaps they read Connection, and when blood is drawn by another person, even if an accident, it forms a Connection that remembers that act.

Sounds pretty neat! You'd definitely have to figure out how to crack the complexity of Hemalurgic attributes, but those would be some very advantageous traits. For future reference, it is generally best to post theories and such in other forum, such as the Mistborn forum for one like this, as then people who aren't familiar with the material won't have any spoilers.

Oooo, I do love a good Hemalurgy theory/hack. I'd love to hear them! And for tin specifically, I know @Koloss17 would be happy to hear them. Also, I'm trying to make a homebrew right now for D&D 3.5 so that you can play with Mistborn and Cosmere stuff in it.

Memories aren't actually on the table for Hemalurgy. Copper can take the ability to have better memory in general via Hemalurgic spikes, such as we see with TenSoon, but specific memories are not part of the Spiritweb itself. Now, maybe it's possible to Hemalurgically steal specific memories with highly, highly Invested beings like Yumi or Shardic Vessels because their Realmatic aspects begin to blend together more, but that's just a hypothesis.

Nice! It's good to see someone passionate about something, even when you have to scrap it and start over. Nice work!

It likely has to do with the Intent of the person drawing blood, which the Shades can sense, similar to the Awakened lock in TLM. This is also probably why a Coppercloud can block it, as its a magical sense rather than a physical one.

That's a good point. Honestly, I could see it going either way; memories' usefulness could be completely lost if split, as some might be divided in such a way as to lose their cohesiveness. Also, just found this WoB stating that Copperminds can be compared to many smaller "virtual" Copperminds. This is mostly just kind of interesting and not really pertaining to the question though. Aaaaand I just found this WoB, which states that a broken Coppermind is probably going to have unusable contents, though reforging the Metalmind could possibly make them become usable again, or at least you could conceivably recover them through some method. I would assume Investiture as well. Percentages alone fall apart when dealing with alternative sources of Investiture- such as Compounding- that don't function by percentages. Also, I regarding how Investiture is Stored in a Metalmind, it's not actually supposed to take up physical space, but it's more of an extra-dimensional space that wouldn't exist IRL. Additionally, a Metalmind's storage space isn't linear, it increases by certain size categories. So I'd say that when Storing in a Metalmind, it's going to be a bit different than with normal, physical storage. It's probably a Realmatic thing, Involving the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms somewhat, as Investiture pierces all three Realms. Okay, just found this WoB while searching for the Metalmind's Investiture taking up an extra-dimensional space. It says that the rate of Storage isn't supposed to affect the total Investiture capacity of a Metalmind, which supports the idea of a Metalmind's storage space being about Investiture rather than percentage rate. I believe this also supports my earlier idea on how Feruchemical storing rates don't affect the total outcome of your Tapping; it's related to total Investiure, not the rate of Storing. I would assume that the Feruchemist could tell the difference between the different charges with practice, as that's just something they're normally able to do; they can tell how Invested their Metalminds are in a general sense, and of course Copper Feruchemy lets you distinguish between many, many different charges, allowing you to pick which ones are Tapped. Yeah, a Feruchemist is highly encouraged to Tap at a higher rate in order to keep up with others' powers. I personally don't think that them not Tapping at a lower rate than what they Stored at is an indication that they can't do it, because realistically there would be very little reason to do it in most cases, because essentially, Tapping to quintuple your physical speed for 10 seconds is probably going to be more beneficial in most circumstances (especially a fight) than having 1/10 extra speed for an hour. Plus, you know, Feruchemy's whole deal is about control and Tapping rate, so not being able to choose an exact rate at which you Tap just doesn't seem intuitive.

Thanks so much! I'm glad that you like it thus far And a do have some plans for Cosmere-wide shenanigans too. I've actually got some ideas for Elantrians/AonDor (that one's goanna be broken in some way no matter how you mess with it ), Awakening, and Surgebinding that I'll polish up and post at some point. However, I think I should first finish up with all the details of the Mistborn side of things, as those can help lay ground rules for the rest of the Cosmere stuff. Thanks! I'm mostly looking for critique or ideas for how certain game mechanics could work at the moment, but I'll keep you in mind for editing and such!

Sure, I'd love to hear more input on what I've got down already! Here's a link to the thread where I've made some posts on it what I've got so far. As for an actual game, maybe someday, though it would likely be a while from now.

You eventually persuaded me to believe in the idea of the compression loss being due to actual attributes being Tapped, not necessarily to just the siphoning off of attributes. What I was disagreeing with here was the idea that percentages of your attributes are what ultimately determine the rate of loss for Feruchemy. I believe it has more to do with the total amount of Investiture that you use, so a Feruchemist Tapping 10 units of Investiture is going to face the same loss of attributes as another Feruchemist Tapping 10 units of Investiture, regardless of the time or rate of Store they spent to get that Investiture. So, you're saying that you don't think that a Feruchemist could choose to Tap at a slower rate than at which they Stored? For example, you think that if a Steelrunner were to Store at 40% of their speed they couldn't later Tap at a 10% or 20% bonus to their physical speed? I don't believe this is the case; Allomancy gives a set amount of Investiture at specific rate (which can be toggled a little then Flaring or maintaining a low Burn) when Burning based on your Allomantic strength and the speed at which a metal Burns. Compounding does require that you Burn the Invested portions of your Metalmind though, so filling it up completely is necessary to Compound all of the metal into Feruchemical attributes. I disagree with these, but I have already given my statements on why I believe them to be the case.

Agreed. When Tapping an attribute at a higher rate, you always will lose some efficiency in the process, requiring you to expend more Investiture to achieve the same level of effect. If you Stored at 40% strength for 1 hour and then Tapped at 80% extra strength, you wouldn't have 30 minutes of Tapping, you'd have less due to compression loss and extra Investiture being siphoned off to increase your body's ability to use that strength. I wish to respectfully disagree with this; I believe that it is the Investiture of the Metalmind that's important, not necessarily how you got it. If you used Compounding to fill a Metalmind with 100 units of Investiture and you filled another Metalmind through traditional methods over the course of a month with 100 units of Investiture, then Tapping them at the same rate would yield the same level of effect. In other words, let's say a Feruchemist has decided to Store strength one Pewtermind at 5% for 20 minutes and another at 20% for 5 minutes. If it's true that both are filled with the same amount of Investiture, than Tapping either Pewtermind enough to get, say, 10% extra strength would lead to the same level of compression loss, as the same amount of compression is done when drawing the Investiture into the Feruchemist. You don't compress based on the rate at which you Stored, you compress based on the amount of Investiture drawn to produce a given effect. I think that this must be the way that it works, as if you were to attempt to apply the exact folding rule over with alternative sources of Investiture, it doesn't hold up. You don't Store attributes at a percentage when Compounding or absorbing Purified Dor, you have an amount of Investiture that you can use, and the rate at which you use it determines your level of efficiency, just as with any other Feruchemy. This part, specifically, I don't understand; if you were to fill a Metalmind with 10% of your attribute over months and months until it was full and had another Metalmind that was filled to the brim from Compounding, and they had the same exact amount of Investiture, how would they not equal the same rate of efficiency when Tapped? I don't believe that this WoB supports your statement very well. First of all, it's nearly 16 years old. So old that the term "Compounding" hadn't even been made official yet. Many things had yet to be decided with the Metallic Arts, such as how Atium shouldn't have been able to have been Pushed or Pulled on Allomantically (by most Allomancers, anyway) due to its level of Investedness, or how F-iron seemed to have much worse impacts on Sazed's movement when Tapped than it does on Wax, or how the Atium we see in era 1 is actually an alloy, not the pure thing. Second, this is seems like a general explanation. Like he's trying to convey the general sense of how Feruchemy works rather than give pinpoint accurate numbers. Third, this example doesn't give a contrast between two different rates of Storing and times spend doing them, merely one example and the fact that Tapping at a higher rate gives less overall affect for the amount of attribute Tapped.

I'm still somewhat confused as to what you mean here. It seems like you're trying to count percentages of Storing like they're individual units, not general amounts of Investiture. Now, I could see this working if the natural attributes of a Feruchemist (or any person) require exponentially more Investiture to function. For example, if a person who can normally lift 100 lbs. had 5 units of Investiture in their Spiritweb dedicated to their muscle mass, while a bodybuilder who could lift 200 lbs. had not 10 units of strength-related Investiture, but 12-20, or something like that. If this is the case, Feruchemical percentages make total sense, as that's just how the Cosmere mechanics work. This seems hard for me to believe though, as you have the same amount of muscle mass pound for pound to lead to your strength (not taking things into account like different types of muscle and muscle density), which makes it seem counterintuitive to me that you'd need exponentially more Investiture in the SR to symbolize that effect. Then again, this could be a fallacy on my part (this is still fantasy, after all), but I'd need real evidence to believe otherwise. As such, I still think that the Bit by Bit tactic could work quite effectively, as the attributes you Store should, from what I can tell, yield a similar if not equal amount of Investiture to Storing at a higher rate but over a shorter period of time, assuming that the time and rate factors are equally switched. Of course, if you see a misplaced notion of mine or a misinterpretation I had on your words, please let me know so that I can better understand.

Ah, thanks. For some reason, I have a hard time finding WoBs.