Trusk'our

I think you're on the right track. Allomantic pewter doesn't necessarily remove certain physical issues, such as injuries, exhaustion, or, presumably, alcohol or other toxins (though the process is sped up). It mostly lets your body resist those things as long as you continue to burn pewter. Take Vin's pewter drag in TFE; she still needed to burn pewter afterward or she would have likely fallen into a coma or simply died from exhaustion, and when she gets axed by an Inquisitor, she must continue to burn pewter lest the wound kill her. On a side note, it's cool to see the differences between Allomancy and Feruchemy in this kind of situation. Sazed's Feruchemy lets him remove the injuries he sustains from Marsh in WoA and he taps wakefulness multiple times, not needing to continue to tap after the problems are delt with.

Why thank you! It's been an absolute pleasure Warbreker and SA spoilers But, you're right. It could have been a slip of Brandon's tounge, so we should wait and see before closing ourselves off to new ideas.

I'm probably being a total neanderthal here, but I'm a little confused. Do you mean "is there a point where when you burn a Metalmind to Compound, you lose Investiture instead of gaining it?" If so, no, when you Compound you're just adding more Feruchemical power to the pile by hacking Allomancy. Ah, nope, my neanderthal brain is back. I'm still not sure I understand what you're asking, but I'll give it a shot anyway. There are practical limits to how much of a Feruchemical attribute you could realistically draw out at once, simply due to storage size (though it's pretty up there as BoM showed us). Although, tapping more at once leads to a loss of total attributes stored because your body (or mind or soul) has to absorb more and more of the Investiture devoted to augmenting the attribute that you're tapping so that you can actually wield it.Plus, you may just have to compress the Investiture into a space that stays the same size but has less room due to more Investiture (i.e., YOU), which may take up more energy as well. But tapping would always be considered positive, since you're adding (though you would eventually get to a point where it doesn't do very much). I think that you could continue to tap a Metalmind to ridiculous amounts, but only if you were standing on a floor made into said Metalmind, which limits the practical application somewhat, since it would be difficult to move around. I'm not going to even try to determine Miles health and Wax's or Marasi's potential speed from the Bands yet; we just don't know the exact measurements for Feruchemical compression, Compounding rates, or maximum Metalmind capacity (which isn't even linear, apparently). We'd need to know those numbers before we could realistically tackle questions like those.

Ah. That's actually quite clever, and should work for Steelsight. Gold and electrum shadows are weird though; I think that they are caused more by temporarily being drawn closer to the spiritual realm (and having the experience being shaped by the specific power) rather than them being a sense of their own. Life Sense I think might be where your spiritual and cognitive aspects are drawn closer together, thus increasing your cognitive aspect's awareness of the spiritual aspect... doing something including but not limited to Connection. So maybe those won't be caught by Hemalurgic tin, but we'll have to wait and see to be sure (it would be pretty OP if you could take and permanently have Allomantic Atium's shadow vision).

I doubt that you could amass enough Investiture to become a Shard (and that's assuming that no Vessel currently is holding the Shard in question). There are physical limits to what can be stored in a Metalmind, which mean that you probably couldn't ascend, even temporarily, unless you have a Metalmind the size of a large multi-million populated city. Also, when you Compound, you don't actually get 10x the Investiture you stored, you only get as much Investiture that you would normally get as an Allomancer of your power. Basically, if the flat rate of Allomantic burning gives you 10 units per hour of Investiture, then if you Compound, you get 10 units per hour of the Feruchemical attribute instead of the normal Allomantic one; so to speak, you're just hooking up your Feruchemical batteries to an Allomantic power generator. This is further complicated by the fact that different metals burn at different rates, and the faster the metal burns, the more Investiture drawn from Preservation (or Ruin, if you're accessing your Allomancy via Hemalurgic spikes). So Compounding a metal may cause it to burn at a different rate than what the Allomantic version would.

True, most Feruchemists and even Compounders aren't really going to have an issue with limited storage space. I mostly meant that there are some limitations to tapping Feruchemical attributes, even if you could theoretically tap them as fast as you wanted (i.e., you won't see a steel Compounder going at Mach twelve, or even going at Mach one for very long, regardless of their unique powers or even with duralumin added to the mix; there are just some physical limitations to the magic).

Yeah, and then you can store the huge influx of Investiture Feruchemically instead of needing to use it all at once. So you could burn through a dozen Metalminds in a minute and store their power for later use instead of needing to spend the time it would normally take to burn through them.

I also feel that Kelsier wouldn't want to give up such a potentially powerful tool, especially one that could be used against him. But, if he couldn't use them (which seems likely), then perhaps he thought that keeping them hidden away in a remote temple on top of a frigid mountainscape, guarded by bo-hoodles of traps would be safer than keeping it closer, especially since he didn't have access to his Allomancy at the time and therefore wouldn't be as effective a defense should someone try to overpower him and take the Bands. But I don't know; perhaps Spook took them and hid them away despite Kel's wishes.

Kelsier is the Sovereign. I used to question this too (even had my own thread on TLM forum), but there you go. I believe that Kel did help with the creation of the Bands (using his newfound in-depth knowledge of Allomancy and Feruchemy from holding the Shard of Preservation), but he needed assistance from Spook plus some other Feruchemist or Ferrings, or they could have re-used the Inquisitor spikes they talk about in SH to compensate for Spook's lack of Feruchemy. As to why they were hidden away, I think that Spook and Kel may have had a falling out of sorts, with Spook hiding the Bands of Mourning, or- more likely- perhaps Kelsier just couldn't use them and decided to hide them until he could get his situation figured out and come back for them at a later time. Or perhaps he couldn't use them and decided to hide them away for someone "worthy" to come and retreave them at a time they were truly needed, such as when Trell invaded Scadrial.

Weird. Especially since there are beings that are supposed to exist fully in the spiritual realm. Or at least Brandon once had the idea to do that, but may have changed his mind. Plus, I still don't really get the whole deal with Shardic Vessels. I remember that Cultivation was said to have a greater presence in the one valley, so does that mean that Shards have to exist at least partially in the physical realm, or is that just a choice on her part?

I don't think that you can use a Hemalurgic spike to take a power that's inside another Hemalurgic spike; it's in the spike, not the person you're performing stabby shenanigans on. Steelsight would still be pretty neat to have 24/7 though

Exactly. Since the Feruchemical charges likely use different amounts of Investiture to fuel, they likely burn at different rates. Me too! I was lucky enough to barely catch that part in the quote I was using. But it's confirmed now that Hemalurgic spikes do use Ruin's Investiture rather than just hotwiring your Spiritweb to draw from Preservation or any other Shard in question.

Anytime (unless I'm currently sleeping or doing school)

I mean that if you store, say, 20% of your weight in a Metalmind, it doesn't necessarily equal 20% physical speed or 20% health in terms of raw Investiture. But since it's a percentage of your own attributes, you wouldn't normally care as a Feruchemist: one hour of doubled weight is comparable to one hour of physical speed or health in terms of how fast it goes, not in terms of actual Invested-ness.

Hmmm. Good thought. Allomantic metals burn at different rates, presumably because the different powers require different amounts of Investiture to function, so different Feruchemical attributes would likely require different speeds of burning too. We don't normally notice Feruchemical Investiture differences though, since you would store faster as well as tap faster, but if you Compound it may become more relevant. You're quite welcome.

Thank you! Glad to see my post was good after all. Fair enough. I probably should have stuck solely with the Inquisitors learning to Compound quote. Apologies. I thought that it was clear, but I suppose I could have done better about explaining the Allomantic burn rate. I don't think that the Compounder's Invested metals would necessarily burn slower though. An enemy Leecher would certainly have a harder time taking it away though, since it's actually Invested (as opposed to most other metals).

Fair enough. Being a big ball of Investiture has its perks, I suppose. It would still be pretty interesting if someone could find a way to hold physical items in the spiritual realm, creating a bag of holding type situation. For Feruchemy though, I wonder if there is another way you could hack the system that doesn't require Metalminds at all, and instead uses a source of Investiture tied directly to the SR, so as to eliminate the physical limitations of Feruchemical storage space. After all, with Allomancy the only reason you need the metal is to grab the Investiture, but if you could get the Investiture some other way, the metals become redundant, so why not Feruchemy?

There seems to have been a lot of confusion and conflicting ideas on how Compounding works on other threads as of late. This is how I understand it. 1. When you Compound, you need to put a Feruchemical charge into a Metalmind. 2. You burn the Metalmind, but (can) choose to draw Feruchemical power instead of Allomantic power (Vin gets the Allomantic power of one of Sazed's Pewterminds rather than the Feruchemical power in TFE). 3. You only get Feruchemical power by burning the Invested parts of your Metalmind; a partially full Metalmind will only yield a Feruchemical charge as long as the Feruchemically Invested part remains (though you can siphon off some of the new Feruchemical charge gained by Compounding and put it back into the burning metal, meaning that you can start with a relatively small Feruchemical charge powered by your own self, then Compound ever after using only Preservation's power and burned metal). 4. The amount of Feruchemical power you get from burning your Metalmind is determined by how powerful an Allomancer you are, since the more powerful your Allomancy the more Investiture you draw from Preservation per unit of metal burned; the Feruchemical attribute isn't actually multiplied as Sazed thinks in TFE, it's just used to hack an Allomantic power stream (whether you can keep the original Feruchemical charge and recycle it or whether it is lost and completely replaced by Preservation's power isn't yet known as I understand it). 5. Also, if you compound using Hemalurgic spikes, you do in fact draw from Ruin's Investiture instead of Preservation's. I had wondered about this for a while, personally. 6. Allomantic duralumin can be used to speed up the process of Compounding. 7. While Compounding is very powerful if done correctly, practitioners are still limited by Feruchemical storage size, the amount of metal they can get to metabolize, the raw Allomantic power of the practitioner (for efficiency at gathering more Feruchemical charge), and the inherent limitations of Feruchemical compression (the more power you tap at once, the less efficient it becomes, and some attributes like steel and pewter have more practical upper limits as to their usefulness). Hopefully this post is actually useful to some, and not just only spitting facts that are common knowledge.

But Shards exist pretty much entirely there. That's how they are "everywhere at once".

If you could find a way to store the power instead of just relying on the Perpendicularity, then maybe you could build up enough Investiture over time. I wonder how many gemstones worth you would need?

I wonder if a Bondsmith could steal Connection from a Fused or Regal, then amplify it and open a Perpendicularity to Odium's Investiture. Then you could get all the Voidlight you wanted.

Yeah, plus... TLM spoilers.

Okay, that's a fair point. Still, if a few metal flakes burned by a run-of-the-mill Mistborn were enough to crush buildings, a super-charged Hemalurgic spike providing Allomantic nicrosil used on a catalyst millions of times bigger should have some sizable impact. Perhaps you could punch open a momentary Perpendicularity? I do wonder how much Investiture it would take (and how big a Metalmind) to equal the total Investiture of the Well of Ascension? It should be noted that use of Investiture enhances the mind to be more capable of wielding it, even if it wasn't necessarily the main part of the power. This would also explain why Awakeners simply have more innate skill with their Investiture than those with less raw power.

Interesting. I did not know that was the case, thanks for the quote! With that being the case, you're right, you would need to Compound to get enough Investiture to fill the forty-ton Nicrosilmind, possibly by burning a four-ton Nicrosilmind beforehand. It would definitely take time, but the Kanra-meatball could still pull it off. But yeah, it might take years to set things up correctly for a few moments of transcendent power, but honestly, the trad-off could be well worth it. Assuming you figure out someting useful ahead of time.

This was inspired by a comment by @IlstrawberrySeed the thread "how to become ludicrously strong". A Kandra can shape its body pretty much any way they like, so long as it obeys the laws of physics (i.e., they can't go too big since it would crush them and they can't go too small because they need enough mass to support cognitive functions). Therefore, you get a two-hundred-ton sphere of nicrosil, might need Soulcasting, put a (relatively) small amount of Identity-blanked Feruchemical nicrosil in it to reprogram the potential Invested output (it spreads out like a gas, so you don't need a ton), and have the Kandra engulf it like an amoeba. Then, you give the Kandra access to Allomantic nicrosil as well as Allomantic duralumin via Hemalurgic spikes. Now the Kandra burns the metal- with the aid of duralumin- gives themselves insanely large quantities of Investiture. Hopefully, the Kandra will ascend (similar to the Well of Ascension) and briefly become a god. Plus, since you gave the power to burn the nicrosil with Hemalurgy, they will most likely fuel their Ascension with Ruin's Investiture. So basically, that's how you create an invested meatball-god of death! A way to improve this would be to increase the potency of the Hemalurgically granted A-nicrosil. Probably stacking multiple Identity-blanked Hemalurgic charges together in the same spike so that the amount of Investiture the Kandra gets per the amount of metal is increased.