Trusk'our

That's a really good idea. We see when Mr. Suit Leeches Wax in BoM that it doesn't effect Metalminds you aren't currently tapping. So if you had multiple Metalminds and only tapped them one at a time, then this would counter much of a Leecher's power over draining your Investiture stores. It would make sense if Marsh used this tactic, especially since he is aware of the dangers of having his Atiumminds getting Leeched or blasted away in a single duralumin burn.

My thoughts exactly.

We don't yet know how full a Metalmind's stores can be for its size, and apparently, it's not even linear: being able to put a month of attributes inside a BB sized piece of metal doesn't necessarily mean that you could put ten times the Investiture inside a Metalmind ten times the size. Plus, we don't actually know what the inefficiency of tapping Metalminds at accelerated rates is. I'd love to know for certain though, so I'm hoping that Sanderson gets around to getting some in-world characters to measure it out soon. I'm not trying to disabuse you from the notion that Fullborn aren't invincible though: you have a pretty good point that their upper limits would not allow them to have unlimited Feruchemical stores, but I don't think that we have enough information at this point to really make accurate calculations about their abilities- though it's still fun to try

Depression, mostly. He could have stomped Vin pretty much at his leisure, but after 1,000 years of life, he was basically only continuing to live to spite Ruin. And then, once Vin drew in the Mists, it was too late for him to stop her from pulling out his Metalminds. Have you read HoA yet? If so... We're pretty sure that they are extremely powerful, but until we get a better understanding in canonically written works, we're mostly speculating with their true potential. But even so, yeah, Fullborn with the abilites we've already seen would be very powerful.

That would make sense. I wonder if that is because you'd only see a potential future that you'd have been able to experience. Emotional Allomancy can't be sensed through a human's traditional senses, so wouldn't be susceptible to such powers. So maybe if you were a really skilled A-bronze burner you could sense Emotional Allomancy via A-Atium? That's just a guess though.

Oops. Sorry for assuming you meant something different. Interesting. I had not considered that. Plus, we have WoB stating that you can't sense Emotional Allomancy via A-Atium, so it may well be within the realm of possibility.

SHOOT. Forgot about that. To the Coppermind Wiki it is!

True, I recall it being like Allomantic pewter in its speed increasement. I'll have to go back and look at Sigzil's tests in OB again to see how much of a difference Stormlight makes though, as it's been a while since I last read it. I'd like to see in later Mistborn books if nicrosil Feruchemy is ever used to enhance Allomantic pewter, and see measurments for Shardplate speed in future SA books. Then we'd know for sure how much it would help the Fullborn.

Me personally, no, I would be okay with testing on animals. But only for a constructive purpose, not for the sake of inflicting pain.

Probably true. And then, a human isn't even getting a 50% increase in speed while flaring, but that's still very useful in a fight. Plus, we typically assume that a Fullborn can compound nicrosil to increase their Allomantic powers, so they would be much, much faster than a normal Pewterarm.

I had not considered this before. I would say probably no, you can't Soulcast the Lightweaving itself, since it is Investiture, and therefore can't be Soulcast as matter can be. Although, you might be able to use Lightweaving to make Soulcasting something complex much easier, similar to how the Soulcasting ardents use poles and cloth to create a "foundation" for their creation of stone bunkers. And honestly, that would be really cool, as a big limitation of Soulcasting is the cognitive limitations of the practitioner, and this should make the job much easier.

Hmmmm. That makes me wonder if the reason Harmony couldn't control Set members with Trellium spikes wasn't because they were immune to his control, but if he just couldn't sense them at the time. Which makes Trellium protection for Hemalurgic constructs less of a "shield" and more of a "smokescreen". And that would explain Bleeder's circumstances.

I don't know. Allomantic pewter allowed Vin to keep up with a running horse, which can run anywhere between 30-40 Mph. on average, while the fastest humans typically only can run up to 27.5 miles an hour. And Vin isn't even a good runner, as she mentions in TFE when she and Kel try to run to their army to save it somehow. Plus, the effect is only enhanced by the Fullborn's nicrosil (if it works that way). Now, we don't have a good reference for Plate's exact enhancement to speed yet, so I'll concede the point for now. It would let them put more force into their ranged attacks (or just use bigger projectiles), like when Wax used his Feruchemy to help shoot more powerfully at the Chimera in SoS. And even if most of them miss, they'll probably still be able to get a few hits in over the course of the fight if the Fullborn is competent. I think that you're thinking of aluminum and Allomantic Atium. Allomantic electrum would be harder to use as it only tells your own future, but it would still be useful if trained with (especially since the Fullborn has Feruchemical zinc). Actually, as a side note, would Allomantic electrum be better at countering aluminum weapons than Atium, since you still see your own future as it would be affected by said aluminum weapon? Allomantic duralumin can make the process of metabolizing metals nearly instantaneous. So as long as the Fullborn has a ready supply of metal, I don't know that time constraints would be a serious issue. I would assume so as well. A Metalmind probably gets drained a bit at the very least. I imagine it would be like Roshar's Half-Shards, where the Metalminds may end up breaking after two, maybe three hits. So while they might offer some protection, they wouldn't offer invincibility. My current headcannon is that you can Leech even uncracked Shardplate just by touching it, but we just don't have any examples of Leeching Plate at all, other than WoB stating Leeching powers being able to affect most Invested systems. So, yeah, we can't really know for certain how they would interact yet.

In TLM we see that Trellium used Hemalurgically protects you from being controlled (at least from Harmony), even if you would have enough spikes to make you vulnerable to such actions. But in SoS, Bleeder had a Trellium spike, but was still susceptible to being controlled by Harmony when Wax shot her with a second Hemalurgic spike. I'm a bit confused. Does Trellium's protection just not work on Kandra for some reason, or was it because she needed more Trellium to shield from Harmony since she was a Kandra maybe? I'm open to suggestions, if anyone has any.

In TLM Marsh uses Allomantic duralumin to crush a gun, but doesn't use up all of his Atiummind in the process, even though he is tapping it. Does this mean that you don't use up all of your Feruchemical stores when you burn duralumin, even if you were tapping them at the time?

Interesting idea. Does the Fullborn still have access to enhanced Allomantic pewter? (assuming that nicrosil compounding can enhance raw Allomantic power temporarily?) If so, the Fullborn could probably still keep up with, though not necessarily overwhelm the Windrunner with sheer speed. It would definitely be a much closer fight if that were the case, and I think that the Fullborn's best bet would be to use Steelpushing and Ironpulling to attack his opponent, as the Radiant Shardblades give them an advantage in melee combat due to their reach. The windrunner could use Surgebinding to mess with metal projectiles, which would compromise this tactic to an extent, though I doubt that it would be completely useless, particularly if Feruchemical iron comes into play. Melee wise, it would be like a martial artist trying to fight a swordman, which is not easy (Dalinar even states this in OB), though the enhanced dexterity of pewter and the intuition of Feruchemical chromium could probably compensate, and if they could get a good grip on the Windrunner for long enough they could use Allomantic chromium to drain them of Stormlight. Plus, they could deliberately create Metalminds via Compounding to resist Shardblade attacks, though that would assume they knew full well ahead of time that such a tactic would work and that they were going up against a Radiant. If they do know ahead of time, the Fullborn mitigates the Windrunner Shardblade's super-sharpness, at least to an extent. The windrunner's best tactics would be to either use their Shardblade and Plate to try and one-shot the Fullborn with a hit to the spine or head, or to go full-range and use Surgebinding to deflect enemy projectiles, fly out of reach, and potentially Lash large objects to attack the Fullborn (similar to Szeth fighting Shardbearers in WoK). In the end, the Fullborn has more potential tactics and probably (as far as I currently can tell) can bring more raw Investiture to bear. The fight could go either way, depending on the circumstances of the fight itself though (the location, knowledge of both opponents, and the time they have to prepare for the fight). As Hoid himself said, fair fights don't really exist.

It could just mean that the medallions are made for a specific purpose, and therefore not able to perform as much, such as granting a natural Feruchemist the ability to utilize the nicrosil portion to store their own power for someone else's use and that they can only tap the nicrosil portion to use the power already stored inside. That being said, we just don't know for certain yet all of nicrosil Feruchemy's mechanics, so I'll do my best to keep an open mind until Brandon Sanderson clears it up in his writing (hopefully soon).

I don't know about that. It could be that Hemalurgy was used to augment the creator of the Bands, so the powers stored would be stronger. I'm hesitant to believe that nicrosil Compounding leads to an increase in Allomantic potential, but we just don't know for sure yet. This quote makes it sound to me like when you tap a Nicrosilmind you just get back what you put in, rather than being able to compress the power as you can with most Feruchemy. Although, maybe it means specifically that Malwish medallions work kind of like this, which might make them something different than your vanilla Identity-blanked Metalmind, which is something I haden't considered before, but would make sense. If you can increase your Investiture levels via nicrosil, then it is a very big power booster, but also not infinite, since compressed Feruchemical attributes bring diminishing returns and you can only carry a Metalmind so large before it becomes impractical. And even then, I suppose that you could actively burn Nicrosilminds to bring in a constant influx of raw Allomantic potential, which itself is effected and enhanced by its own burning. If it is possible to do so, I think that there would likely still be a practical upper limit, but it would probably be very high.

I LOVE IT! Marsh is one of my favorite characters in the Cosmere, as it happens.

Ah. So I got "ninja'd" about four times in the discussion of a 5th oath Windrunner vs a Fullborn then. It was unbelievable.

Lol . Wax is pretty scary when you get on his bad side, even if you were a Compounder with the audacity to reach for godlike power.

In that context, yes, I suppose so.

If you spike someone without healing them, then yes, it will lead to a severely reduced life quality, and it may be more difficult to replace lost pieces of Spiritweb than I am imagining. So don't make it a regular thing. Only spike when it is actually necessary, which likely isn't that often. WoR spoilers TLM spoilers There is a possibility of Hemalurgy related crimes increasing. That is undeniable. My personal take is it is better to release the information and develop ways to protect against large, extremely dangerous organizations like the Set and develop some potentially useful technologies by researching Hemalurgy's mechanics, but also have to deal with smaller scale crimes being committed by more potential Hemalurgists - you can't protect yourself from that which you do not know, and the Set proves that there are people who use Hemalurgy's secret to their advantage, and you might as well learn something that could really benefit society while you're at it. But that is my own opinion, and I recognize that not everyone will agree with it. It is good to see others' thoughts on the matter though, as I wouldn't have been able to think of all the potential implications of Hemalurgy's impact of society on my own.

Okay, that makes sense. Even if everyone has access to Hemalurgy, it doesn't really protect those that don't want to be spiked, or really anyone from being spiked in the first place. I don't think that every crime ring would start using it if more serious laws were put in place and since Metalborn would be more aware of the dangers of being Hemalurgically robbed, it would likely be a lot harder to accomplish. True, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the government couldn't step in to stop your typical criminal element who uses Hemalurgy, especially if the vast majority of the population is terrified of Hemalurgy's potential. That is almost certainly true. More people would be able to use Hemalurgy to do harm if it became widespread knowledge, but countermeasures could also be put in place by the people to mitigate criminal use of it. This would also make it much harder for secret organizations similar to the Set from gaining such an overwhelming advantage, since the law has a better idea of what to look for to determine if Metalborn are being spiked, and they will develop better weapons and strategies to deal with Hemalurgists. TLM spoilers. If I were to simply throw the knowledge of spiking Metalborn to steal their power, then yes, it would be a crime against humanity itself. I do not believe that if you were to make the public aware of its general existence to raise awareness of what others could use against you, and that you saw that society developed measures to protect the populace against such evil actions, that it would be irresponsible though. I can understand and respect your opinion though.

I don't think that the concequenses of being Hemalurgically spiked are that serious for the donor, unless they wanted to become a Cognitive Shadow. Plus, you could heal back what you lost with Investiture. I don't think that I can agree with this. Even if you give the option to let everyone have a weapon, say guns, people aren't going to just go out and start shooting other people. Because people are people, and people generally do not want to kill others (Plus, you know, they know that if they do that the law comes after them). Hemalurgy in most cases is probably more like having a knife than a gun, assuming we're talking about most people wielding it. You can spike a Misting or Ferring and give yourself that power, but that mostly isn't going to change Scadrial's criminal output, I would think; they already have Metalborn outlaws. Now, you defiantly could have some power-hungry individuals abuse it and gather together dangerous Invested powers, but most likely a group of Metalborn police could be used to counter the rare occurrence of Hemalurgic crime rings. I do think that intimate knowledge of Hemalurgy spreading could be very bad, but it wouldn't automatically mean the end of Scadrial's society.