Karger

Gavilar's box was in system so his method was probably different. However perhaps he showed antiinvestature as proof that he could do it?

That is correct.

I was referring to the scene where Kaladin jumps. His eyes glow like the fused. He seems to use voidlight then.

Kaladin seems to use voidlight and Moash is super connected to Odium. Seems reasonable that he could fuel the surges with what he wanted.

I was wondering if we knew Mraize's solution to this problem. He claims to have found it recently. Then I had a thought. Anti tones move light out of gemstones. What if antilight could bypass connection requirements. In fact antilight might want to leave roshar. It is not like converting the light back into normal investiture would be hard. What do you all think?

Somme still had to design the courses and programs you used not to mention give you the motivation to study. You might not need a traditional classroom but teaching will always be important.

Gavilar apparently not content with being a terrible, husband, brother, and father decides to add to his list of crimes by working with and possibly against up to two additional secret societies. Moash this man! So here is what we know about these two individuals. Axindweth(claims to be her real name) seems to be terris and has the ability to manipulate connection. This along with her rings imply she is a ferring or that she is using a medallion. She is working with Ulim willingly moving him and other voidspren to roshar from Braize. She knows way more about singer history then she should and spends a lot of time with Gavilar. A lot of people think she is one of the GBs but this confuses me as Gavilar was their enemy(at least during his final days). He seems to have had a falling out with her around the day of the feast. According to Ulim an enemy agent found her and turned Gavilar against her. Gereh(may not be real name) also seems to be terris(a steward who wears jewelry). He carries a green aviar that seems to be able to track him. He clearly mourns Gavilar on a personal level and the GBs seem to hate him. I do not think he is the agent that turned Gavilar against Axindweth. Navani seems to think he has been there for a while and she would know. All we know about Gavilars plans is this passage... that he worked on antilight, transporting spren to and from braize, knew the Heralds, worked with Amaram and had delusions of grandeur.

My know that all of the different lights have different emotional effects related to their intents. What is more interesting to me at least is the fact that Moash uses stormlight rather then voidlight. It is not like he could not access it. I am pretty sure if he wanted to he would but he does not. Moash claims that Odium takes his pain. An interesting statement that is hard to understand. Icould see Odium inflaming or quieting hatred but making someone without pain? Unless you think of Odium's intent as agony rather then hatred. This is a bit complex but a good examples are in the old testament. God's wrath is famous in this context but what is lessor known is perhaps how much hurting people pains him. It is a lot like Lirin says. Odium is that on a much greater scale. The desire for things to be as they should without regard for who it hurts in the process. The peace that Odium offers that is so tempting is his ability to make you no longer care. It is not that Moash is without anger it is that he never perceives an action he takes as causing pain. If he were to take the emotional influence of Odium inside his as happens when drawing voidlight he would be paralyzed by all the things he has done.

Odium had a way around it for Dalinar. The same method should work in this case. I think a more interesting possibility might be that they become a worldhopping organization working against him.

They could go to the azish oathgate and use that now that they have the sibling. It really is not that far. Dalinar could fly in and open his perpendicularity. They could take boats back. Anyway I am pretty sure lasting integrity will come under assault by Ishar early in book five.

He is self medicating with Odium. However given that he chose this path knowing the consequences his actions are just as contemptible as ever. He chose his own peace of mind over his friends well being.

Pattern was on a suicide mission. He would stay and report back as long as he could until his death. Shallan is uniquely suited to cryptics in general and if you believe that your death is inevitable anyway why not bond her?

She outsmarted Raboneil at the end which resulted in Raboneil's death. She had raysium. The dagger is just a blade surrounding a raysium core. I think it reasonable to presume Navani could improvise something. She did not know why the tones worked, what they were, or how to manifest them fully. Navani immediately realizes what she has done and feels and extremely guilty for such a mistake. I don't see how this is any different then Dalinar's early missteps at Theylen field costing him his own army. Navani's decision making process happens on scree. Here are the relevant passages. Goal one is keeping an eye on Raboneil and communicating with Kaladin so he can destroy or defend nodes as needed. Rabonel would have destroyed the sheild as soon as she discovered the second node if Navani had not decided to work with her. Would have resulted in the tower's fall much sooner. Her initial decision was probably the correct one. She was guessing and turned out to be correct in this case. She had a solid theory to work from. Warfare means making decisions with limited information. Then you should have no trouble demonstrating this with direct quotes from the text that mean exactly what you say they do. Reread the statement. Warlight is of limited value to the fused. Navani did not reserch antilight willingly it was discovered at a wrong moment. Yeah. She also did help. She had to work on what Raboneil made her or Raboneil would have dismissed her and sent her to carry water. Appearing cooperative was necessary. Things worked out as you say because Navani worked to make them had faith they would, and was subsequently proven correct. All factors present will alter behavior and as such are motivators in that context. In this particular instance given how much strain Navani was under I think it reasonable to think fear played a role in her choices even if she was fairly good at coping with it. Her first choices were to try and keep the sibling safe. Her choice was also the more dangerous one personally. Working under Raboneil directly leaves Navani at much greater risk of being executed for treason then just carrying water IMO. Trying to kill someone while they report does not count either? I was referring to the fact that Navani tried to kill Raboneil twice and succeeded the second time. You are referring to Navani's work process. She is trying to work effectively on her plan. This involves a certain mindset. And provided information, offed Raboneil, restored the sibling, delayed the effectiveness of human scholars, provided the technology that kept Kaladin's ability to fight... It came pretty close to working for "not a plan." I do not know what the fused rules of succession would be under the circumstances and neither do you or Navani. Given that death is temporary to the fused I would think that under the circumstances the rules would be along the lines of "keep everything running smoothly until Raboneil gets back." So let me get this strait. Because Navani did not do exactly what you would have done she is a stupid egomaniac? The entire point of that sequence is about how Navani can't think of anything else. In singer terms she is attuning the rhythm of scholastic achievement. Firstly she does not know of antilight yet. Secondly fighting tooth and nail accomplishes nothing in this scenario. Opportunities multiply as you seize them. Navani has a 6.25% chance of getting that spesific outcome. No one knows how many coin flips are in any given sequence or what is at the end of every sequence. In regards to Navani's security you actually have it backwards. It has to go correct for Raboneil at each level. Otherwise Navani gets antilight without Raboneil realizing. Option one results in no immediate negatives but the human position is already untenable. Doing nothing will result in the permanent loss of Urithiru and unmaking of the sibling.

In familiar terms I think he is piggybacking off Odium's power by manipulating connection.

The standard(and really only) complaint about Raboneil is that her scientific/scholarly capacity is not on par with her reputation. This is the femalan whose discoveries could easily be responsible for more deaths then the Blackthorn yet makes a considerable number of rookie or low level mistakes in regards to even basic scientific theory. However doing what Raboneil herself would do. Lets take a step back and try and figure out the Lady of Wishes. Flaws It is only fair to start with her flaws. Raboneil is very limited in some ways. She had seven thousand years and access to government support along with the favor of a deity and yet could not manage to kill these pesky humans. Yes she was opposed by a group of immortals and a couple of deities herself but it still seems strange that she could not get the upper hand on what would eventually be cave people. Her ability to think critically while good is not exactly up to par either. After this I can only really think of one other problem. This last flaw maybe be an advantage at times but it is also worth noting. Raboneil is not really loyal to anyone unless she decides to be. She serves Odium but she has priorities before him and even before the welfare of her own people. It is not a wonder that Leshwi does not trust her. Her actions are motivated by what she decides is the best course rather then any guiding principle. Now we get to the things I actually want to discuss. What are Raboneil's skills. What makes her so feared and admired? To start with I would like to talk about her metacognition. Metacognition is, put simply, thinking about one’s thinking. More precisely, it refers to the processes used to plan, monitor, and assess one’s understanding and performance. Metacognition includes a critical awareness of a) one’s thinking and learning and oneself as a thinker and learner. One of the first things we see her do is talk about the differences between human and singer artwork. This is a bit odd. Why would you do such a thing when conquering an enemy stronghold? Raboneil is one of the few fused who goes beyond even Leshwi in terms of her understanding of the conflict. Lezrian fights for his own sake and according to Venli many of the fused are nearly as bad. However Raboneil herself is the one to acknowledge the reality of the war and make a rational decision based on the outcome. Rather then getting bogged down purely in details of how to win the war she assess logically weather the war is winnable along with the costs(just like Jasnah would). The methodology allows her set clearly defined and obtainable goals rather then spend time attempting impossible ones. If your interested her victory conditions are Once done with that she is also the one who notes the limitations of singer methodologies. Raboneil knows that she has had seven thousand years and no one on her team has cracked this. She also knows that she can't expect any help from the new singers. Thus she correctly concludes that they need human input for either of her victory conditions to be possible so she goes to find some. I personally doubt that the timing of her arrival on screen was accidental. She shows up just after the report on a fantastic new fabrail, bridge four, is made public knowledge. This gives her the means to locate the humans she wants and present her plan to a favorable(not to mention desperate) audience. Raboneil's Inductive Reasoning and Foresight Inductive reasoning is a method of reasoning in which the premises are viewed as supplying some evidence, but not full assurance, of the truth of the conclusion. It is also described as a method where one's experiences and observations, including what are learned from others, are synthesized to come up with a general truth. Foresight is the ability to predict or the action of predicting what will happen or be needed in the future. One of the worst mistakes that authors make when writing smart people is not getting this right. Some treat these skills like deductive reasoning requiring full proof before coming to a conclusion. Others portray them as a kind of magical ability whereby the "intelligence" of the individual is treated as some kind of divination whereby they always make correct judgements regardless of what kind of information they have. I could probably spend days going on about who does this badly but the point is that Raboneil is always on point with using limited information to make decisions and is several steps ahead of everyone else at all times(or I am just crazy). Lets look at her tower assault. Raboneil's goal is to capture human scholars. She has IDed the probable location of several of them. Now comes the tricky part. Firstly she needs the other fused to support her. Secondly she needs to create an environment where the humans can be tricked, coerced or otherwise made to help her. The first she manages by timing her suggestion correctly but the second is exceptionally difficult. Any human Raboneil captures must be in some respects more capable then she herself to be of use. At the same time she needs the cooperation of the human she catches. Much is beyond her control. What she can and does control expertly is the assault itself. She has Odium and Taravangian to thank for the loss of most of the A team but a determined defense by still powered radiants could be an enormous problem. She carefully chooses to enter the pillar room with selected forces through the tunnels allowing her assess to the pillar itself along with an escape if necessary. Equally important is her chosen team. While we don't know all of he members but I can, looking back over her work, tell you why all of them are there. The masked one is a potential spy who can be entered even if the plan goes south. They also determine that the sibling is still semi-active. The deepest ones are perfect for surprising any defenses or pulling ambushes during a retreat. They can also locate spesific personages who Raboneil wants neutralized or captured(threats and scholars respectively). Venli's position is the most obvious, if least important. She is there because it will make Leshwi slightly less nervous to have a spy watching Raboneil. However it is Lezian who interests me most. Raboneil knows exactly whats going to happen with him and why. She also knows how to manipulate him(it is not exactly hard). He is of himself her controlled chaos. If things are looking too good for her side and Raboneil needs to sabotage team Odium having Lezian around makes it way easier. Raboneil's Comunication This one is the most subtle but Raboneil's communication skills are excellent. Her subtle encouragement of Navani. The fact that she often tells her the truth and picks up on small details. I love when she says this line Because she really means it. Their goals are not quite mutually exclusive. She always picks up on what other people say and has a nack for cutting through to what they mean. Anyway my rambling has gone on too long as it is. I will really miss her.

I did like this a one a lot but it felt just a tad unpolished. It is not one big thing and maybe I just expect too much at this point. I would prefer if we got fewer sequences of Kaladin fighting in the tower and he spent a bit more time hiding. I also think the storms happened at too convenient intervals and I felt the interlude lagged. That being said. Antilight, Ishar, Kaladin going ham, founding mental health, Adolin being friendly, we choose, Szeth loosing it...

Thankfully I think Dalinar's death would severe his bond with the stormfather and pieces of Honor the same way it did with Szeth and Jes's blade. Odium could order Dalinar to do this out of spite and Dalinar would be bound to obey but I don't think he would simply because Dalinar's family is pretty dangerous and he does not want to loose his loyal blackthorn.

It really depends on the person. You have to make sure the first fix sticks otherwise they might be turned off.

I don't think Kaladin is gay although I do think his relationship with Adolin... What I meant was that Renarin had a boy crush on Kaladin which he knows is not going anywhere but will like to think about to keep him warm in his old age.

She was sort of captured at the time so yes she did. Also her research required the aid of the fused to work. That is debatable. She did not create antistormlight nor did she realize that spren could be harmed this way. The connection may be obvious to you but you have privileged information and are not in a situation where millions of lives could depend on what you do. Arguable. Effectively the entire tower was held hostage to her behavior. Navani knows Raboneil will break her word if necessary. The threat is implicit but still very real. I would also not overstate the effects of Navani's research. It gives the capacity to end the lives of a group who were previously immune to death. That is not the same as giving the capacity to end life on such a large scale that it can only be used against entire populations. I am not approving or disproving of antlight's discovery itself. I personally agree with Raboneil but others must come to their own conclusions. She applied as much as she could. You are essentially blaming Navani for a bad luck and not being smart enough. I would argue the entire warlight quest was effectively counter intel. You repeatedly dismiss it but I think, from Navani's view at least, that is what it was. Again THIS IS AN OPINION! You CANNOT definitely state someone's motives or emotional state. I am glad you have an opinion but repeating it does not strengthen your argument. Navani knew Raboneil was lying to her and could not be trusted. She preformed research both before and against her. The research she willingly aided Raboneil on was ultimately of limited value to the fused's war effort but improved her standing with Raboneil and allowed her to continue observing the femalan as she worked. That is one way of looking at things. There are others. That she could discover something that she could use against Raboneil and save the sibling, or potentially help Kaladin with information, or a distraction at the right moment allowing her to save the sibling, or that her access might allow her to smuggle Rlain to bond the sibling, or that she might discover something about the fused's plans that she could get to Dalinar... As long as appeared to be cooperating and had access to information she had a chance. If she did nothing the sibling would eventually fall. If fear is present then it is a motivator. It may be mitigated by other factors but it still exists. Also an opinion. It is one I think more reasonable but when judging emotional states opinion is all you can really get unless we are directly told otherwise by a narrator and sometimes not even then. So you don't count her hiding things, verbal deflections or attempted assassination as "some fight?" That remains to be seen. As Dalinar said in warfare there is no such thing as an unequivocal victory. Even if Navani had developed this back before the occupation I don't think it would take too long for the fused to duplicate it. Military secrets don't stay that way forever. In the end she did. Debatable. You might argue she lacked definitive proof but Navani's entire process here forces her to make choices with limited information. She had good reason to believe that warlight was not antilight. I have a hard time believing Odium could not have made antilight if he really wanted to already. She considered giving up after warlight but decided to continue. She made a choice not, I think, because she wanted to prove herself but because she thought she might have a way to permanently kill fused. Under that coarse of events the sibling would be a tenth unmade and Kaladin would have to fight against gathered forces of the fused with little to no support. I fail to see how this is better for team radiant. Which were hidden. There was a layer of protection in that Navani was doing other research at the same time. Navani gave her the notes rather then antagonizing Raboneil for no reason. She knew Raboneil would find the notes eventually so why put up a fight? It helps literally no one. If Raboneil had been ten minutes late the day the vacuum tube arrived Navani could have created an antivoidlight dagger(it took about that long), murdered her and escaped her cell with the aid of her fabrails. The guard only reported that Navani was making a lot of nasty sounds. Without Raboneil's help the sibling would be safe and the research kept out of fused hands. Not talking draws far more attention most of the time. That could have been never. Escaping the most impressive fortress in rosharan history facing magical opponents while in your mid-fifties is not exactly easy. And she may have been right to do so. Navani's actions forced Odium to the table and they may spell the end of the war. Yep. If one of those diamond fragments had gone through her eye she would be dead according to Kaladin(fused die if they take a headshot). We don't know the full mechanics of that. I will simplify and state it would be a fairly long term delay. A valid opinion. Assume you think working on the research is a necessary risk and taking notes is a necessary part of the research. What do you do differently? Clear to you maybe. Show me with direct textual evidence that your view is exclusively the correct one and I will happily end this discussion and admit you are 100% correct. When discussing probability you have to look at all the possible universes that result from any given coinflip. A 1/3 chance does not mean that the 2/3 will occure all the time or that the 1/3 is invalid. Um... You have succinctly summerized your position and I agree that it seems reasonable. I simply do not agree that it is the only position that one can take when observing the same facts. I do. I don't see how you can know that doing nothing results in a better outcome. She wrote down notes that the fused managed to desifer and use to reverse engineer her process before she could destroy them. I agree Kaladin's actions are worthy of the highest admiration. That does not change that he would be fighting an uphill battle against an enemy that outnumbered him, could summon reinforcements, and use large masses of civilians as hostiges if the tower had not come back online. Agreed.

Ambition was splintered by Odium according to Khriss.

Winces. Nico was handled horribly.

It might be Kaladin. Renarin was pretty nervous when talking to him back in WoR. Navani says Rushu joined the ardentia to get away from men. This could indicate she is gay or ace but either way I don't think she is Renarin's type.

Containing information is almost impossible. All it takes is one mistake. Exactly. The treaty enforcement was largely successful. You can only get around it with a lot of effort and huge consequences. In this case a much better solution might be making all the shards swear to limit the amount of free investiture.