Tglassy

Brandon has said that there's someone who's well on his way to becoming Radiant without being broken. It's not a requirement, it's just easier. I figure he's either talking about Lopen or Adolin. I like the idea of Adolin becoming Radiant. I've never understood why people liked Batman over Superman. "Cause he's just a regular guy who's awesome!" No, he's a mentally disturbed rich kid who takes matters into his own hands, and instead of using his money to clean up the city and actually make things better, decides to instead run around and beat up people at night. And the only reason why he can beat the Justice League is because the writers think he's "So cool" so they give him all of the plot armor. Iron Man is a much better billionaire powerless superhero than Batman is. Radiant for the win. Normal people are boring. If I wanted to read about normal people, I wouldn't be reading Fantasy.

My only issue with this is that the Stormfather was genuinely surprised when Dalinar's words were accepted for the third ideal. So far, the other third ideals we've seen have been a continuation or clarification of the second. "I will protect even those I hate" follows "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves". Technically, the third ideal is included in the second, as the second doesn't exclude people they hate, it is merely a further clarification. "I will follow this code/person" follows "I will put the law over all else". It is a clerification of what "The Law" means, because laws are as bendable and different as men and cultures are. So saying you'll follow the law is all fine and dandy, but the third ideal is to clarify what "The Law" means. In Szeth's case, it means Dalinar. "I will listen to those who have been ignored" is an extension of "I will remember those who are forgotten", in that it further defines the spirit of the first ideal. You can remember people without actually doing anything, but once you get to the second ideal, you have to also listen to them. Lightweavers are, in the same way, needing deeper and deeper truths. A person's second and third and fourth and fifth ideals are extensions of knowing one's self, of who they are, of being completely honest more and more and more. It is a further clarification of one's self and who they are, rather than of what one will do. Likely because you must be honest with who you are before you can become something better. But Dalinar's third ideal doesn't seem to have ANYTHING to do with the second. The second was "I will unite instead of divide." That's great. It fits with Bondsmith very well, considering their role and their surges. But that has nothing to do with being a good person, which is essentially what his third ideal was. "I will take responsibility for my past, and if I should fall, I will rise again each time a better man." That's a personal ideal, and does nothing to clarify or support the second. It is essentially saying "I will strive to make myself better," which has nothing to do with uniting other people. And yet the words were accepted, which shocked the Stormfather. I don't think he was expecting any words like this, because I don't think anyone had ever sworn an oath in this manner, which seemed to go off script so much. Maybe it's just a characteristic of Bondsmiths, that they are more individual, and without seeing other Bondsmith Oaths, either past incarnations or ones bonded with the Nightwatcher and Sibling, it's hard to say. But personally, I think that Dalinar's third oath actually went off script, and that he's becoming something other than a simple Bondsmith. It honestly think he's gathering the Shards of Honor and is on his way to ascending, interpreting the Shard's intent as Unity rather than Honor. If you think about it, if one were able to use Oaths and the spren bond to ascend to be a vessel of a shard, and the Shard of Binding and Uniting things no less, it would make sense that the oaths you would have to create would be about binding one's self to a way of being, rather than about what actions you would take. All the other oaths are about actions. I will protect, I will follow, I will listen, I will unite. Even the LIghtweavers can be interpreted as "I will be honest with myself", or "I am this". But Dalinar's third oath is the first oath, unless I'm mistaken, that says "I will become". It's more than an action. It's a state of being.

I suppose it depends on whether one ascends to being an Avatar or of the Avatar is created. Like, was Pajti a person first who became an Avatar of Autonomy? In that case, could Hoid have gained enough of Autonomy's power to become one of them without consent? Just a thought.

Is Hoid one of Autonomy's Avatars? Like, one Autonomy didn't mean to make? He did say he was being worshiped somewhere...

I posted this in the "Wildest Cosmere theory" thread, and I still believe it: I think Dalinar or Sazed will become the new Adonalsium. Probably Dalinar, as I think the "Unite Them" refers to the Shards, not the Alethi or Rosharans or Honor's Shards in particular. I think Odium will find a way to kill Cultivation before the end, shattering her. Dalinar will become Unity (Honor), and he will take up the pieces of Cultivation, Uniting them with Honor (Unity) to create something more powerful than Sayzed's Harmony, because his two pieces are not diametrically opposed. Maybe he would be called "Community". Binding and Growth combined. Odium is going to be facing two Shards who have collected two Shards each, and so he will be scared. I think Series two of Stormlight will be Odium finally deciding that if he is to beat them, he needs to combine shards. I'm guessing the one that makes the most sense for him to take would be Ambition, since he already shattered that one. He just needs to take its shards. Odium and Ambition = Destruction? Judgement? That will be the end of the second series. The Third Mistborn will be a cosmic crossover, so I'm thinking Sayzed and Dalinar will try to figure out a way to separate Dominion and Devotion, and each will get one. Dalinar will get Dominion, Sazed will get Devotion. Dalinar will have Dominion, Cultivation, and Honor/Unity, and will become Authority. Sazed will have Preservation, Ruin and Devotion, and will become Creation. Then its up to the other Shards at that point. They'll all likely oppose Odium, but some may actually oppose Sazed and Dalinar. And as an addendum to my original thought, in the end, at the final scene, Dalinar is mortally wounded, Sazed is dying, Odium is shattering, all the other Shards are shattered, and Kelsior will walk up and snag them all and become Adonalsium.

All that was awesome, and I only had one contradiction. The Unmade did show up in the Cognitive Realm, in Oathbringer, when the group used the Oathgate and accidentally transported to the Cognitive Realm. It was suggested that the Unmade was in the beads under them, and it was enormous.

Yes. They allow you to swallow bits of iron and steel and then basically generate a magnetic field that you can see (as a blue line) and manipulate that only affects one item that you choose. That is most certainly not within the laws of physics as we know them.

1. Kel did NOT give her a general vial, he gave her one with only two metals, Brass and Zinc. 2. Inquisitors didn't make Inquisitors slowly. They did it all at once, reveling in the death and destruction it would take. They don't use plants because they believe themselves to be too powerful to do so. They are the definition of arrogant. 3. Paalm couldn't use Allomantic Powers until Era 2, after she died as Lessie, and when she got Trellium. Why don't we just take Kel at his word when he says he didn't kill Vin because he chose to trust rather than not trust? When he gave her the 3,000 Boxings and said she could leave, there is literally nothing in book that said "And secretly in the back of his mind, he thought "I'm going to have to follow this girl and kill her if she moves for the Ministry."" No, he just offered her a way out, no questions asked. She could have sold them all out. Kel's not evil. Yeah, he COULD have been a bad guy, had the situation been different. Even Ham says as much when he asks if they are all actually evil, if the Lord Ruler is really divine and therefore he is Good. Which, in the end, Rashek WAS a good man, from a certain point of view, because he was protecting the world from Ruin. He just became heartless and cold. Kind of...like...Kel. And Elend, for that matter. But that's everyone. One nation's Pirate is another's Hero. Which is correct? Is the Pirate, then, evil? Or is he good? Or is that dependent on who you're talking to? Were the Founding Fathers heroes of a new world or traitors to the old? Or both? Or maybe, people are just more complicated than that. If they killed my mom and beat my wife to death in front of me, their entire world would burn to the ground were it in my power to make it happen.

Um...this is explicitly stated in the books...like, explicitly. When Vin is pulling in the Mists. And later in Era 2, they talk of it being Harmony's Body that is always there, but not always visible. They literally have a line, an epic one, where Kelsior is talking to her as she is ascending: "Solid in the metal you fed to Elend. The liquid in the pool you burned. And vapor in the air, confined to night. Hiding you. Protecting you. Giving you power!"

But you can compound if you store it with Alomancy. I wonder what would happen if you burned a piece of allomantic metal with breaths stored in it with Awakening?

This is not how Kel is depicted in the books. He specifically talks about choosing to trust people, rather than choosing to believe that everyone will betray him. This isn't an "Evil" person philosophy. I suppose you could go the "that's what he SAID, but he really believed different" path, but then I could do that for everyone. Breeze SAID he wanted to help the Skaa, but he really just looked ahead and knew TLR was going to lose so he decided to join the winning side. Clubs SAID he changed his mind and wanted to help, but really he was just a spy for TLR and was shocked when the actually won. Vin SAID she loved Elend, but really she just wanted his crown. See? It makes no sense. Kel was a good man. He had a lot to learn about people, specifically that not everyone of a certain class is evil just because they don't fight the system they're in, but he's a good man, as much as any man can be called 'good'. He isn't fighting for his own riches. Even becoming a religious figure wasn't about his ego. it was about inspiring the Skaa to rise up against their oppressors. Well...maybe his ego was a factor, but in the end, he would be dead, so what would he care?

There are certainly combination powers that could take on Mistborn. That's why I specified any Single power set from any single system, because a Mistborn or Feruchemical Radiant is possible. Technically, any mixture of powers is possible with Hemalurgy. A Feruchemical Radiant would wipe the floor with a Mistborn.

I believe there's a WOB that says you'd have to be careful, but yeah, storing heat can make you immune to Fire and Heat.

I've always thought it was something along the lines of "I will allow those who can to protect themselves," as a compliment to the second "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves." He was trying to protect Dalinar, who not only didn't need protection, but shouldn't have been protected. Dalinar had to go through that to "level up", so to speak. It's like playing Halo where the guy who's been playing for ten years keeps kill steeling because he's "Helping" his buddy, who's new, but then the buddy doesn't get the experience because his friend does all the work.

You've made your case, I've made mine. Without more information, such as just how strong duralumin enhanced pewter is or how much pressure it would take to shatter Plate in one blow, or how much stormlight Plate drains or how much a Radiant can hold once they get plate, there's not going to be an answer. I think Vin could head butt a Radiant in Plate with Duralumin Pewter and at the very least shatter the plate (and no, Vin wouldn't have her head split because Pewter strengthens the body). You don't. There's no way to quantify that. But we don't know if shattering Living Plate even matters, or if they can just reform it. It's possible forming Plate takes a ridiculous amount of Stormlight, and reforming it after its shattered would be too cost prohibitive. We just don't know, so we can't quantify. We don't know how difficult it would be for an Elsecaller to hop to the other side and find the Mistborn and soul cast something on his person. In actuality, that might now work, at least not on Roshar, because the Mistborn would have moved the PR vials from where they were in the CR, and they'd be lost somewhere in the vast sea of the CR, slowly making their way to wherever the Mistborn is, but still unfindable. It's also possible that soul casting from a distance doesn't allow for precise things like "Find the metal inside that vial and turn it into flour." We also don't know just how much Stormlight a Radiant can hold at lvl 5, and how efficient it would be. It's entirely possible that at lvl 5, they're so powerful that even a Fullborn would have a hard time killing them, speed or no. We just don't know, as there's only one in the books, and he was already a Harald. On the Mistborn side, we don't know how long each metal actually lasts when its burned. Brandon plays with that in the books, only having it run dry at plot convenient times. A dose of Pewter is only supposed to last for ten minutes of straight burning, and Ham advised not to burn at all times, but only when you needed it, but later Vin keeps it on twenty four seven, and we never see her choking down pewter dust like we see Spook do with Tin. We don't know how Chromium works with something like the Surge of Division, as its possible that it could defuse any surge affecting the MIstborn (like adhesion). We don't know how long it would take for Chromium to drain a Radiant of their stormlight, or if it would do anything to shard plate at all. We don't know if a punch from a Duralumin enhanced Pewter burn would be able to crack Shardplate, shatter Shardplate, or not leave a dent. We don't know if there's a way to hit a Radiant through the eye slit that would incapacitate them long enough for a Mistborn to take advantage (although remember, Kal did that to a full Shardbarer who had plate and blade, and he wasn't even really a squire yet, though he was using Stormlight, if only a little, so obviously running up to a Shardbarrer and slamming something into their face through the visor is possible, even for a normal person, much less a Mistborn). I'm not sure how much more use this particular conversation can be until we get more numbers.

I can probably agree with that analysis. It's what I've been saying. A Mistborn is at least the equal to a Radiant, though some Orders may be better than others. Depends on whether or not Bronze can detect a Radiant using Stormlight in the CR, which I think they should, considering Vin could detect Kel's Cognitive Shadow. And as long as they're burning metals, it would likely take more Stormlight than they hold to soul cast one. Now, they could soul cast a stone cage around the Mistborn, and do other nasty things, and could keep from getting pinned down by one, but we don't know how much Stormlight it takes to cross over to the Cognitive Realm (It's a Surge, so it must take Stormlight), so we don't know how often an Elsecaller could actually use this. There's always the talk about Soulcasting the Mistborn's metals, but there's too much about Soulcasting and Elsecallers we just don't know.

I'd disagree with that, for reasons stated above. Future Sight wins all. If there's only one exhaust pipe in the entire space station that would allow for the space station to blow up, the Mistborn would hit it like bulls eyeing womp rats in their T-16 back home. There only needs to be one chance for them to win, no matter how small, because that's what seeing the future does. The self repairing tanks only does so with Stormlight, and that's a finite resource. I've said before, with Plate, it would be harder, but without, their head comes off, along with every other appendage. We cannot assume anything about Plate, because living plate has only been shown in past visions. That visor slot is the plate's only weakness. If they were able to to "Reconfigure" the plate so they could both see and not have that weakness, they wouldn't wait for a Mistborn to do so. They'd just do it and make it a standard addition. And if we're going to start going down the "I brought my attack dog with a built in Force Field", "Well I brought my dinosaur, which eats forcefield dogs" path, then the Mistborn gets a Medallion that grants Feruchemical Steel, Feruchemical Pewter and Feruchemcial Gold and wins all fights ever due to compounding. Or a Hemalurgic Spike that grants the same. This is supposed to be looking at a Base Mistborn vs a Base user of any SINGLE magic system. I had originally included all 18 known metals, as that is the MIstborn's full power without any gimmicks. They technically get more, as Atium can be combined with any metal and, presumably, so can Trellium and Ettmetal, but we don't know what those do. Somewhere down the line someone decided I should be limited to what is in the books, but I don't understand that. Just because Mistborn didn't have access to Chromium in the books didn't mean they didn't have them. Spook likely would have had access, the man reigned a hundred years and Harmony directed him to find the other metals. A Mistborn with all sixteen base metals plus Atium is at the very least a match for Knight Radiant, though its possible a lvl 5 Radiant would win out, as we've never seen one, and it's possible some orders would do better than others due to Surge combinations. But with Chromium and Duralamin, I just don't see a Knight Radiant winning. Pretty much ever. A Duralumin enhanced Pewter Punch would very likely break shard plate and keep on going. Vin headbutted a man and his HEAD EXPLODED. And she was barely dazed. And she wasn't even using her full strength to do so. Shardplate is strong, but we don't even know how strong living plate is, and we do know regular shard plate can be cracked by someone falling a really, really long way and kicking it, like Kaladin did in the arena. He had no extra strength, just more weight.

I mean...that could work. But at that point, the Radiant is giving up their blade. We don't know how Plate works, other than you can summon it or not. You'd have to keep the Shardglasses up at all times, I'd imagine, because if you ever let it down, the Mistborn burning Atium would know, and would know when you're going to do it, and would always strike, and hit, when you do. So you're taking out one of your main advantages (Shardblade) to shore up your weakness. At this point, the Mistborn doesn't even need to burn Atium, and the fight becomes much more even. Plate is awesome, but it does break, and a Mistborn can take a lot of punishment.

If we're going there, what's to stop a Mistborn from asking his Feruchemical friend to make some Steelmind armor, and Steelmind swords, all of which would be resistant to a Radiant's sword? No, he can't use the power in the armor, but that's not the point. The point is to stop that sword. That's perfect in world, and makes more sense than "Glasses" that somehow stop coins shot at the speed of bullets.

Regenerating only helps if they can still move afterwards. Cutting off a Radiant's head would pretty much do the job, and a Radiant without Plate is getting his head cut off by a Mistborn burning atrium pretty quick. Along with his arms. You can't hold a Shardblade without hands. No, it wouldn't kill him outright. But it takes a freaking ton of Stormlight to regrow an appendage, which includes the head. So while he's laying on the ground, and his skin is regrowing and spine extending and skull forming, the Mistborn just continues to cut of appendages, until the glow goes away and the body stops regrowing. With plate, it becomes much harder. The only way I see it happening is if they get a break away dagger, or some coins, in through the eye slit, leaving the metal in the head without a way to get it back out without taking the helmet off. Then, if the Radiant conscious, he either fights with half a brain or takes his helmet off to try to remove the offending metal, in which case his head is coming off. If the Radiant is not conscious, the Mistborn smashes his helmet with a rock until it shatters, and then takes his head off. But the thing is, if there is only one possible way out of a billion for a hit like that to work, a Mistborn burning Atium WILL hit it, every time. The MIstborn would be able to know if he would go unconscious or not. He would know exactly how to hit so that he WOULD go unconscious. And if there was no way for him to go unconscious, then he would know if and when the Radiant would take his helmet off. And if the Radiant DOESN'T take his helmet off, then the Mistborn could probably just shut off his Atium altogether, because fighting someone who can't think straight is not that difficult. In fact, you don't even need a Mistborn to do all this. An Atium Misting could. Add in all the other powers of a Mistborn, and they're toast.

There is no getting away from someone with Atium. They'd know how you were going to try it. Vin tried it. They'd have to be able to get away with NO way for the Mistborn to stop them. In an enclosed setting, especially, that's not going to happen. The Mistborn would know exactly how they were going to try to get away and would know exactly how to counter it. There is no stopping someone with Atium. If there was only one chance in a billion that the Mistborn could take on a Radiant, then a Mistborn with Atium would hit that chance every single time. Because Future Sight.

I don't think he would have attacked the boy. I just don't think Elend would have been selected for the Throne if Kel was alive. I think Kel would either have taken the Throne, or been the one to select who was on it. No noblemen would have had any kind of political power. The crew would have led, and at the very best, the Noblemen would have been told to leave the city or die. This is why Kel would not have been good after his plan succeeded. Elend was able to end the bloodshed. Kel would have prolonged it. This probably would have led to confrontations between him and the crew, or at least Vin, but not deadly ones. They would have been arguments. Kel may have required that Elend leave with the rest of the Nobleman. If that happened, Vin would have gone with him, and it would have caused a split. Some of the crew may have had to realize, and help Kel realize, that without a beurocrocy and people who know how to lead, they would have no chance to keep their kingdom, and therefore they need the Nobility and the Obligators. Kel isn't a stupid man. He would have likely eventually realized this as well, but he would have put things in place so that the Nobility were now the serving class. Elend was just not the kind of person who A), Kel could respect, or B), that could compete with Kel's presence, before he became Emperor. In fact, if Kel hadn't died and Elend been made king, he likely would not have grown in to that man. All I'm saying is that Emperor Elend, the man he became by the third book, WAS someone Kel would have respected, and one that could compete with Kel for dominance in a conversation. In fact, I would have loved to have seen that. I just don't remember what Kel felt about him once he became Emperor. I don't think anything would have went as well if Kel was alive, for anyone involved. And yeah, I remembered that scene when I wrote my post above. He hated that they put him on the throne. But that doesn't equate to "I really wish I'd murdered that boy". That's more just feeling that his work was all for nothing if they were just going to give the throne to a Nobleman. He didn't particularly care for Elend, but he did at least admit that Elend was "Not as bad as the rest".

I couldn't call him a monster. I'd call him Human. He had a personal vendetta to the Nobility, but if it had just been that they killed his mom and his wife, he may have gone after the men who did it, but it would have ended there. The problem was that he saw the injustice of the entire society, and realized that his mom and wife were only two victims out of millions. He saw Evil. True Evil. And it permeated everything. And he saw very, very little to convince him that the Nobility were anything other than Evil. He decided that they were Evil and did not deserve to live. They were all evil, but the guards were just doing their jobs. So he rationalized. They had sold out the other Skaa for comfort. They had sided with the enemy. They helped Evil keep reign. So they were Evil, too. At the end of his natural life, he was beginning to understand that not ALL of the Nobility were actually evil. No, he wasn't there quite yet, but he was getting there. I think he would have liked Elend, eventually. Oh, he'd have given him a hard time, and Noble Son Elend, or even King Elend, may have been too easily intimidated by Kelsior, but Emperor Elend would have been strong enough to stand beside him. I can't remember how he thought of Elend once he became Emporer in Secret History, but I think he did grow to respect him. I don't think he would have killed Breeze for being a pureblooded noble. I think he would have been stunned to learn it, maybe rocked back a bit, but it might actually have been good for him to learn that not all Nobility were like that, and that they could, indeed, find allies in their ranks. Hell, without knowing it, HE put a Nobleman in charge by selecting Breeze to be the Politician to take over. I think it would have made him stop to reconsider the Schema's he had created in his mind regarding the Nobility. All of Kelsior's choices were consistent with a good person who is faced with a horrible evil, and doesn't know how to stop it without killing it. They killed his mom. They killed his wife. Everything that followed was an understandable reaction to that. I'd be hard pressed to not want to do the same thing, were I in his shoes.

For me, it's always moment when a character is purely genuine with themselves. Kaladin at the edge of the abyss. Kaladin with Elhokar, when he saves him and talks about Fleet, just before he swears the third ideal. It is a truly character defining moment (by character I mean a person's character, not the fictional character). It is that moment when he truly discovered who he was, and what he was and wasn't willing to accept. Rock with his family. Teft, when he swears the third ideal. I balled the last time I listened to this scene. Scar, when he accepted he would never use Stormlight, and instead decides to help others learn to use Stormlight. And then he does. Shallan, when she finally accepted that she killed her mother and that Pattern was the sword that did it. All Pattern can say is "I know." It hits me every time I hear it. Dalinar at the Nightwatcher. And of course, Dalinar, at the end of OB. I've relistened to all three books three times in one year simply to relive the build up to that one scene.

Re-entry heating wouldn't happen. Heating up during re-entry is because of the friction against the air molecules. But someone with the Surge of Abrasion doesn't actually touch the air molecules. There is no friction. So there'd be no heating up. A Steel pusher could launch themselves much further because they wouldn't have wind resistance slowing them down. A Steel runner, especially a steel compounder, could run a lightning speeds and they wouldn't even disturb the air that much.