Rhapsody

Hello and Welcome to the shard. I can totally understand loving WoT. I know most hate it for the long read it is but I just love how detailed the world is. The white sand in the arcanum is just a portion. White sand has come out as two graphic novels. There is also an inofficial novel version floating around avaiable if you subscribe to Brandons Newsletter I think. White sand the graphic novels can be bought at most book stores, amazon or brandons own store.

congratulations @hoiditthroughthegrapevinethat was really awesome

That is exactly what I am asking. No color itself doesn't need to have an organic origin. The yellow color of gold for example comes the effect that some of it's electrons would need to move with a speed aproaching a singnificant amount of light speed. Since their energy is fixed and E=mc^2 that means they get heavier thus they would experience the pull from the atomic centre differently. Long story short that means the energetic differences between the different layers of electrons (orbitals) change. In Gold that means it is possible for visible light to make one electron ascend into a higher orbital thus absorbing the light. The resulting light that is reflected is perceived by our eye as the golden color. (by the way the same effect is responsible for mercury being liquid) To make gold loose it's color you would therefore have to change it's electronic configuration. Since its chemical properties and most of its physical properties are intrinsically tied to its electronic configuration changing that would normally result in it no longer being gold. The same can be said for most colored stones. Their colors are often a direct link to their structures. If you change those to get rid of the colors it wouldn't be the same stone anymore. Their are also a couple of black materials that I can think of from the top of my head that would experience a similar problem. Coal or graphit for example. Coal is mostly black or brown-black depending on its organic material percentages and origin. Its chemical composition is mostly unknown but is theorized to contain a lot of aromatic similar ring systems. Graphit is carbon which is bonded in hexagonal rings and ordered in layers and can range from silvery grey to black in color. Both should be able to be used in awakening but it isn't certain what would happen to them chemically to remove the coloring. It's not directly the iron but the protein containing the iron called Hemoglobin. And it can actually change color by degrading, That degration is responsible for the blue and green color of bruises. But it changes its chemical composition by degrading for that process so I'm not sure if that would work for awakening. There are Vasher once uses the black stone of the God Kings palace and leaves a gray patch in the black. Marble and most stones (lime stone being a noticable exception) aren't organic materials. Most stones and also Marble are carbonate minerals which is definitly anorganic. A mirror most of the time is a reflective metal sheet (mostly silver) behind glass. So I guess you would take the color from the silver (making it a more dull grey color) and cloud the glass (WOB says gemstones drained of color would look like cloudy quarz so I guess glass which is made from the same molecules would also cloud.) There are also a good number of metals that have a distinct color. Some tend to be more black and there are a couple of red ones. Copper being the most noticable. There are also a number of colored metal oxides which are formed through oxidation (rusting iron being the prime example).

if I remember correctly it was a couple of vials and a bar of the alloy that she received. But I could be wrong here and I am too lazy to look into it now. I think since spook was a skaa urchin raised on the streets one would assume someone else taught him those reasons, since he otherwise would probably have no idea what corroding means. Some of the allomantic metals are usually coroded (meaning it is the normal state in which they know them) or their oxids (the results of rusting and coroding) have the same color and texture (thus making it for a non-specialist imposible to distingish between pure and partially coroded metal). Since Spook knows that metals are stored to keep them from corroding it would seem someone with a bit more metalurgic knowledge told him that. I'm not sure they really diluted them so much. For one as mentioned above they stored in alcohol to prevent oxidation. That purpose would be distroyed if they diluted too much. Secondly if you think about the amounts of liquid you usually have in a vial, the alcohol level wouldn't be high enough to really make them drunk. And lastly most people in Ireland or Scotland would probably turn in their graves if you told them to dilute their whisky =) ok now I understand. The alcohol probably prevents oxidation a bit better than water, but allows for other problematic reactions. It actually depends on the metal and conditions. Aluminium reacts rather rapidly in basic conditions for example. And the reactions of alkali metals with water can be explosive. Some reactions also start slowly but react explosivly once a certain threshold is reached. I don't think they had plant oils. Most of those are rather difficult to aquire since you need a lot of plants to get a reasonable amount of oil. But there are a couple of animal fats and oily products that could be used. I also think they had oil lamps. (The oil for those was most often aquired from animal fats) As far as I remember they also hat soaps, which means an esterification process should be possible for them, therefore obtaining industrial fats and oils.

If that is the case then the object drained of color would be changed physically/Chemically. Easy for cloth or paper which is dyed using special molecules that only loosely fit to the original material or most gemstones which are colored because of impurities. But what about the colors of pure elements. If you took the color of a gold coin what would remain. Because the color of the gold coin is intrinsically bound to its electronic make-up it would could no longer behave as gold (for whoever is interested the color of gold is caused by something called the relativistic effect). So has anyone any idea how that should work?

@king of nowhere As a fellow chemist I must say that is an acute analysis and something I have never really thought about. There is just one point I disagree in. Metals can actually react with alcohols. For one metals are often added to reaction mixtures to fasten the reaction by acting as a lewis acid thereby polarizing bonds and making other reactions occur at reasonable conditions. More often than not the metal is in the process complexed with oxidizing agents like water, alcohols or ethers. Which means that Wax whisky is even worse as a storage medium since it contains exactly those organic materials that would like to do such reactions. Second in anorganic chemistry there are a number of metal complexes with alcoholates therefore providing a further option for reaction though without a catalyst or basic reaction conditions those reactions would probably take to long to form to be of relevance. The wrong solution pH, organic component or trace bioorganic catalysts could however provide that catalyst. (I'm looking again at whisky as a solution or worse beer). Those complexes can also form as an intermediary state to another more stable complex (for example with water) which also would fasten the reaction speed. Lastly strong reducing metals form metal alcoxides with alcohols. Which is a rather fast and exothermic reaction which occurs for example with alkali metals though other metals are also possible depending on the conditions. To conclude: The only reason storing those metal flakes in alcohol works is because they put in enough of the metals that they can't react enough before they use them and secondly they are using them fast enough. Oils seem like a more sensible solution though most edible oils are ester bonds, which can be cleaved to form an alcohol and an organic acid. Thus getting us back to the original problem though a further step is needing giving the metals more time in the respective solution. Ethers seem like a better alternative though from the top of my head I do not know one ether that isn't toxic in the needed amounts. And of course some metals also form complexes with ethers (aluminium for example, which also likes to form complexes with alcoxides by the way). Furtermore many reaction pathways to complexes occur preferably without oxid. Making airtight vials a non-issue for those cases. Lastly I would like to add that the metals used in allomancy would behave quite chemically differently in the same solutions. While gold is more prone to form Au(I)-complexes, Iron would have more problems with the rusting conditions discussed above. Aluminium would be sensible to pH increases while many of the alloys would break apart under the wrong conditions. Ideally you would therefore have a different solution for each metal in which that metal or that alloy is most stable. If the alcohol is only to make swallowing easier why is water bad. A relativly pure alcohol is actually quite difficult to swallow. They are actually bitter and burn (much worse than a high percent liquor) for one. Also they are toxic shortening an allomancers life expectancy with each vial. (Think about all those alcoholic problems but much faster since the concentration is so high) I guess pewter could help with the second problem but that only helps mistborn and pewter mistings/twinborns.

And .... I lost again.

And I lost again. Thank you notifications....

Ahhh... I'm sorry. I just had so much to do the last couple days that I didn't even have time to check here again. Sorry @Rebecca @Kidpen @Jondesu@Snipexe Anyway I think Snipexe still gets to reveal one agent because of the invalid clue?

ok I would say the Renarin picture on the top left screams Kholin. For the second clue. I'm not so sure

you're evil.... is this going to go around and around and around with no end in sight? btw I lost again.

damnation you @Sorana now I lost too.

A friend is doing exaclty that for Halloween this year.

Hmm I mostly agree with Rebecca about the possible choices. I think I would vote for Wyndle since he actually is in Shadesmar in the picture (growing crystals) and besides Shallan there were other Radiants in Shadesmar, so it is not exclusivly linked to her. I would actually exclude Syl since the thing linking her to Shadesmar would either be that spren live there which is the same for wyndle, making it difficult to choose between the two, or actually having been there (on screen) which she has in common with Shallan, making it difficult choosing between those two. Though Snipexe could try to hint to her since she has both connections. But that sounds farfetched to me. I think I would either take the picture of wyndle or pass turn and hope the clue get's clearer when other pictures are eliminated.

All right! Let's have fun

ok did so! =)

I'm really looking forward to it

Thanks and no problem =)

Happy Birthday @Mistspren

Thank you @Kidpen

I'm also in again. pictures sound interesting.

I agree!

T'telir. I'm just going to guess the next best choice.

Ok here are all the conections with red I could think of. Be warned some of them are pretty flimsy. Trell: As mentioned above and is also associated with red eyes. Skeletal: see above. also bloodsealing in general seems to be associated with the color red. T'telir: known as the city of color. and Lightsong dreams of red and T'telir in flames. Devotion: has also been named the Shard of love. red is often refered to as the color of love. Sixth of the Dusk: Dusk and Dawn are often associated with the color red. So ok. a couple of those are really far fetched. I think Trell is the most likely. Followed by skeletals. After that I'm not sure. T'telir seems like a reasonable guess though I personally associate it more with colors in general rather than a specific color. The other two are really only me Fishing for connections. So I would guess: Trell-Skeletal-T'telir in that order.

Szeth