shatteredsmooth

Its not about skill so much as my process. I've found that either I finish a draft in a month or two, or it takes years to finish one draft. If I get feedback too early, I obsess about getting that chapter perfect before moving on and lose track of the big picture, even if I do have an outline. For example, the novel I am seeking feedback on now is something I wrote during NaNoWriMo. It's only about 50K words right now, and will probably be 80 or 90K by the end of the second draft, especially since some "chapters" are really just summaries. Still, I have a begining, most of the middle, and an end, so now I can slowly chip away at making it a coherent piece that I can send out to beta readers. Last year, I wrote a few chapters of a book and started working with a CP on it. I couldn't make myself move forward without fixing the issues she pointed out, and since I was spending so much time rewriting those chapters, I didn't write new content, and when I ran out of what I had written, I couldn't figure out what more to write because I still struggling with some plot issues in the earlier chapters -- issues that I probably could've fixed later if I had kept writing and figured out of what I had outlined was really going to work. And we stopped exchanging chapters since I had no new chapters to send. I don't need pressure or deadlines to finish a book. Once I get immersed enough in the story, I have to keep writing to see how it plays out, even if that means losing sleep or letting the dirty laundry pile up until I'm out of clean clothes. Stopping for feedback breaks that focus and then I struggle to finish the book. What I do need pressure and deadlines for is revision. Without a group like this, I might just think the book is too messy to read and not go back to it. But with something like this, I can clean up a chapter or two, send it out, revise it, and repeat with the next unless I make extremely drastic changes, like condensing four chapters into one. Most of the feedback I gave you is probably stuff you can set aside until you finish the draft. But I wouldn't be able to, hence needing to finish the draft before anyone sees it. I am great at silencing my internal editor until someone else sees the draft. Then I can't turn it off, and I can't generate good content.

Sorry for the delay in this. Here is my response to the first two chapters: What I like: · The concept. Right away, you have a main character that wants something with high stakes. It’s easy to conceive what the plot is going to be. · The world also seems well developed. I don’t know all the details yet, which is going to keep me reading, but I know enough to be comfortable following the mc through the world. · The stakes are very clear. · Chapter two had a great opening line and in an interesting blend of characters. Seeing how the MC, obviously from a more well off setting, interacted with residents of the slum showed what kind of person he is: arrogant, entitled, clue-less, and jerk. I don’t like him, but I don’t have to like a character to like a book. What this tells me is that the narrator has a lot of potential for growth and change. Problems · Chapter 1. Get rid of it. Instinct is to open with him losing his demon. It’s probably what I would do on my first draft, and I’d probably fight everyone who told me to do anything differently until three revisions later, but it really isn’t working, and chapter 2 pulled me right in. Starting with the MC hiring someone to find the demon works as an opening. Seeing him fail to haggle shows the stakes, and he can remember how bad he felt after first losing the demon in the first place. · Chapter opens like waking up – he comes to and his demon is gone. Is he waking up from sleep or from passing out? Or was he working in the lab and just realized it was gone? I didn’t catch this from one quick read. I may figure it out when I go back and reread, but I suspect the average reader isn’t going to want to do that. If they don’t get the opening, then they are just not going to buy or download the whole book. · Don’t know enough to care about this dudes initial reaction to loosing his demo. A lot of people hate books that with some kind of wake up, but I think there can be value in seeing how people wake up in some cases. This is not one of them. There isn’t any character development. Just that this person lost something, and I don’t know them or comprehend what they lost so I don’t care. I had to reread the first page or two a couple times to realize losing a demon was a bad thing, particularly because of this line "but on this day his body was utterly his own. " · I don’t like way the narrator talks to secretary, who seems like a cliché female secretary from a few decades ago. · In both chapters, you have a tendency to use fancy adjectives and adverbs instead of showing things. Example “trying not to look too out of place amidst the cavalcade of unsavoury individuals swaggering about the black market's northern quarter.” What makes the individuals unsavoury, particularly in the world. How does he know they are unsavoury? Their clothing? Are they flaunting illegal magical artefacts? You need more concrete details. Of course, this isn’t something you necessarily need to worry too much about and finish a first draft. If it fits better with your process, you can go back later as you revise and replace to clusters of modifiers with more concrete details. P.S. I tend to not let people look at drafts until I have written them through to the end. I might skip chunks in the middle of my first draft, but I really need to have a beginning, end, and most of the middle before I can get feedback or I never finish the project. Of course, that means my complete first drafts are really messy disasters. You will probably have a much cleaner draft by the time you are done, and a lot of feedback to help you get right into your second draft. I admire that you can work like this!

Yup, but I'm doing hours, not words, since I'm revising.

Content warning: Violence, Language, Drug reference Hi All, I promise I will be getting caught up on feedback soon. I emailed a drastically rewritten/shortened version of the Oomph novel. I did try starting on the moon like many of you suggested, but after three starts and stops, it just didn't feel right. So I went back to an earlier suggestion of starting with the Grefantan knocking on the HoBo's window. There is minimal description of the setting in this version since they are not on Earth for long. All the driving around, talking to random people, and waiting is pretty much gone or condensed to a sentence. So, is the pacing better? Are the stakes high enough? What about the voice? Did I cut too much world building? Am I still stuck in the same problems there? Aside from final proof reads, the hardest part about writing for me making people feel connected with the characters and/or their emotions, partially because in real life, I struggle to connect with people and have very delayed and sometimes illogical reactions to things. Is that any better in this version? I'm always open to people pointing out typos, especially since I seem to be leaving out articles lately and not realizing it. However, this is still an early draft, so don't go out of your way to look for them. Thanks! Sara

Can I please submit Monday? I'm either going to have a short story, or a new version of the opening for Oomph.

Just jumping here to say that I was partially off the grid for a week, and plan to get caught on reading submissions this week and rewriting the opening of Oomph. I don't anyone to think they scared me away since I sort of disappeared the week after getting a lot of criticism on a post. It was very helpful criticism. I just spent the past week not being online much and being outside a lot. I also had no WiFi, and limited cell service.

You don't need to apologize! This is an early draft, and I'm not one of those people that churns out decent early drafts. This is really my first time attempting this kind of science fiction in a novel. 3/4 of my previous novels were more or less contemporary fantasy, the genre I am strongest in. The other was more high fantasy, but I think I was on my third or fourth go round of beta readers before the world was fully flushed out on the page. I think about a lot of the questions you have, like the moon/gravity, but wasn't sure how specific to get on the page or not since like you said, the characters were there for a blink. Would readers assume some type of artificial gravity? Now I know the answer is no. When I'm stretching into a different genre, even if it is blending that genre with one I'm more familiar with, I need this kind of feedback. Because of it, I'll be able to write a better opening, and a better book.

That was a typo. I've flip flopped from she/they/xe and probable spent too much time rewriting chapter 1 with different pronouns than making more important changes...like what you suggest below. Sort of...and magic. In my head, anyway, the tunnels were used until the past two decades, and an Oomph, channeled through the graffiti and carvings, is keeping them intact. Same could be said for the house, though none of that is visible. Of course, the characters know none of this. And since I don't have them returning home anytime soon, then it might be better just to cut so the lack of apparent logic doesn't hold you up... Maybe this makes sense. Since they never do back to earth, I guess it is waste to explain the whole situation there since there were a lot of logical problems... My biggest concern about doing that is the reader will really have no clue why they are on the run without an info dump, and two, I hate to introduce and kill a character in one chapter. But I suppose if I did flesh out the last chapter more, I could show them running and gradually work in what they are running from. Anyway, you gave me a lot to ponder. I'll see what the others think and take some time to work on it before I send more chapters.

I second this!

Over all comments: The voice is good. The mc seems kind of dark and gritty but also kind of Skippy. The pace picked up. It seemed like you trimmed the first chapter a little? One issue with this section it was that I didn’t quite believe how quickly he seemed to buy in or “trust” these other characters, and his infatuation with the women seemed a little sudden. Another problem was the transition between the two chapters. The end of 1 implied he got away, so I was pretty surprised to see him in prison. “No, they did not understand at all. I blew sawdust away from my face. “Can I have my money back then?” I smiled ingratiatingly, “Please?” made me think he was about to do some magic that would free him, but in hind sight, I guess he hadn’t had the bones yet, and was commenting on how the way they restrained him would be useless if he had. As I read: Veteran of a dozen wars, and he had no need to proclaim it, he had associates to do that. Comma splice. The cliques gave each other an honourable Shouldn't it be a since honorable starts with a consonant? If a mouse, I could add to my memory, but of what, the patterns of the guards? Interesting – so each animal has different properties. Nice, subtle way to cue me in to this. “You know I’ve a debt to pay, and I’m for a thrill as much as the next red-blooded Wenrokman.” I met her brooding gaze. “I think I’d get that sticking by you, Chari. So, what’s the plan, and I’ll think on it?” Not quite following his response here Did that mean I couldn’t trust her? I'm sure I'd believe it if he did trust her. It doesn’t seem they told each other much. “what’s he in it for? [SC1] I'm a little confused as to why they are talking motives before the job. It seems a little info dumpy, but at the same time, it is a little confusing and not actually dumping clear information. “I’m in.”[SC1] A nice line to end the chapter on! It's clear they are embarking on a heist, and I more or less know what is at stake for everyone, particularly with the main character.

This part didn't bother me so much, though I admit I did sort of fly over it more interested what happens next than feelings. However, I just read fast and initially chose not to comment on it because "feelings" are just not something I'm good at in life and in writing. Sooner or later, you will all realize that and probably be yelling at me about my character's lack of feelings and lack of reaction to anything. Unless the feedback of my past four books and dozens of short stories has finally taught me how to write emotions I lack into stories. But we'll see. Back to this story... I don't think it dragged. I had no problem not reading as closely to get away from the gooey feelings, and it's probably better to have too many feelings than not enough, especially when publishing twitter is always tweeting about feels and other alien things. Plus, if this is a part of lesbian culture you want to be clear, then there is value to keeping it. I may be enby, but I'm not a lesbian, and culture is a thing I watch as an outsider and occasionally try and fail to participate in, but from my awkward outsider perspective, I did sort of get the lesbian + feelings thing before you pointed it out. And it's 1 a.m. here on the east coast, so I should probably save further commenting for a time when I am more awake and coherent. I have some notes on the earlier chapters. I'll email them to you tomorrow.

Pacing was great. I flew through this section. S, with the exception of maybe page 1, felt about 17 and sheltered. The other characters close to their age felt more adult, like they could be in their twenties, but it is easy to attribute that to a less sheltered up brining, especially for Magda. I didn't question the guild antagonism, but later, I did question why they were okay with Sam but no other guild-related people, which makes me think he is behind some of it. Some notes I made while I read: "...cursed spirits I'd never heard of" I had to read this line a couple times for it to make sense in context. "...guilds, and the leader..." don't need the comma. ..."Out at five to..." confirmed he was their brother. Every time you use tii, I think it should be capitalized. Something about the flirting did seem a little more mature. S's side was okay, for the most part, becuase they were dense about it and awkward, but I wondered if Magda's flirting was a little too mature. I keep thinking she wouldn't have much time for flirting as the daughter of a queen, but then I go the other direction and think of princes from books in similar but less queer settings, and they are all over flirting and being mature in that department. Anyway, its something to think about. I didn't mark it while reading, but there were one or two lines were you could've been describing flirtations between Atalant and Emm, so maybe that was what made those flirty scenes more mature. Maybe there just needs to be a tad more mutual awkwardness?

I just got caught up on all the chapters, including these. M & S being chased by the townsfolk is believable, but also cliche, though I'm not sure the cliche can be avoided, and I'm okay with it, since there is so much else that is fresh in this story. Sam going along made sense. I could tell he had some ulterior motive, though I wasn't sure what, and you did a good job setting up his relation to S. The situation forced M & S into taking him, so that felt natural. And at the end of 15, you do confirm the motive with a great ending line that is making me want to stay up all night and read the rest of the book. The one thing that confused me about those chapters was Sam's status with the townsfolk. They seemed so anti-guild, but he was a guild master carpenter, and he seemed to have some superstar status in the town. Their opinion of him seemed to contradict their other opinions. Maybe I'm missing something? And did they just leave the poor horses to die? Overall, these two went by really fast, and it was a challenge to slow down and comment.

UPDATE: THESE CHAPTERS ARE COMPLETELY REWRITTEN. If you haven't read them, don't bother. What is replacing them will be up Monday. Content Warning: Mild violence and gore, mention of drug use Hi All, Here are the next two chapters of Oomph Unleashed. They may be a little rougher that last weeks. Chapter 3 was long and even I got bored reading it, so cut a lot of it. I'm wondering if I cut too much, or if I didn't chop enough off, or some combination of both. Knowing me, I probably cut out all the wrong things. All the comments from last week about pacing and world building were very helpful, so feel free to give more of those. Otherwise, I don't have other specific questions. Feel free to comment on whatever strikes you. What is working? What isn't? What is completely illogical and makes not sense? I'm still mulling over last weeks comments, and will probably revise chapters 1-5 all at once, then move onto 6. I still need to read a few of last weeks subs, but I'm in the process of getting caught up. Thank you! Sara Catch up: In chapter 1, D, a teen who delivers drugs for xir dealer/pimp of a mother, picks up an artifact more dangerous than xir usual flavor of illegal: an artifact emitting Oomph (the energy force that all living things emit, but only a few can manipulate.) D, like other Oomph users, is required by law to take a drug that suppresses it, even if it is the only law people in xir town follow. In Chapter 2, Di is at a diner when a man chases a server out of a kitchen, asking her about the artifact. Assuming he is just another criminal, Di and xir cousin, Alinez shoot them to help save the server (someone who is sort of a friend.) Then they realize the person they shot was a System Enforcer -- a government sponsored thug hiding behind a badge.

I third this, unless I read the rest of the book and find out we were all wrong and actually want a version of it back.

Good to know I wasn't the only one thinking this! I didn't look at any of the other comments until after I posted mine.

OK...I made a comment about the cat thing too, then saw the discussion on it. I had thought cats only drooled if they were sick. I guess I'm wrong.

Overall, it is an interesting piece, I love the concept, and I am very curious to see where it's going, but initially, I had some trouble getting into because I wasn’t really sure what sub-genre I was reading and what kind of time it was set in. The voice sounded like it was going to be epic fantasy or fairytale, but there were hints at a contemporary setting, and later, a future one. It wasn’t until the Omega guy came in that I realized this was sort of a super hero satire from villain’s POV thing. I suppose if I was picking this up as a published book, I’d have read back cover copy, or a query if I were an agent, but the title alone didn’t hint at this. It could have been a fairy tale villain or something more metaphorical. I need to be grounded in the world a little sooner than I was, and am almost wondering if you should just start with the second chapter, but with more detail. I am hesitant, though, to suggest you cut the first one since I don’t know where the book is going. If it is mostly about these two guys, then I don’t think you need the first chapter, but if it is alternating between them and M, then you there might be more value in keeping her opening. Either way, I think both chapters were a little too bare, and need to have just a little more in them to give the reader context and cue them into what kind of world this is happening in. Here are some notes I made as I read: "Her shade would await Omega’s, the arrogant arm of the law who’d thwarted her, coming upon him like a lightning bolt as he sauntered toward eternity" This line was a bit confusing. First Omega sounds like an agency, then it is a he. And I'm not understanding the sauntered to eternity part. I’m interested so far – but a little uncertain. The voice kind of sounds like epic fantasy, but there are hints, like lines at concerts and zip ties, that make me think contemporary. Mortar bulged between unpainted cinder blocks, speaking of quick construction, and a drain pierced the unpainted cement floor. Is this description supposed to hint at sound-proofing? I was kind of expecting foam to be involved. But maybe that would be invisible to M, on the other side of the blocks and mortar? In the back of her mind, something started to scream. Just in case anyone was listening, she started to laugh. A little confusing. "squat robot" made me think future, not contemporary. "Then people...shut that off" This whole section, starting near the end of three and going to the middle of four had me completely confused. I didn't know what was happening in what order, and it just yanked me right out of the narrative. Shortly after that was one of my favorite lines comparing something to a tentacle. :-) Page 5 "I'm not afraid" to "Well treated" That long piece of dialogue for the guy was confusing and felt forced. Page 6: talking inanities In the section where he comes and talks to her, you rush it too much. If you could give just a few more snippets of dialogue, the change would be more believable, and I would be more grounded in the world. Page 7: When J explains why he was there I reacted “Ah – okay – this gives me more context now. I know the title was villains, but I didn’t quite know how literal to take that until now. Trying to figure out the kind of world I was in has been pulling out of the story. “ Page 8: “she remained half aware during the session. They kept repeating the same phrase, but she couldn’t remember what it was.: I don’t fully understand these sessions. Am I supposed to? Not understanding isn’t making me want to read more though, it’s just annoying me. The end of chapter 1 set up for the kind of book where the whole story or part of it is framed by someone telling another person something, so I was a little surprised when it switched characters and through them, showed M’s story moving forward. I’m glad the interview isn’t acting as a frame. I was just thrown because it seemed like it was going to. Chapter 2 Overall it was easier to follow than 1, but I still wanted a tiny bit more. However, the opening paragraph didn’t really work. It sounded too much like M’s voice, but the chapter wasn’t from her point of view. It drooled on his fingers. I’ve Never seen a healthy cat drool… At first, I thought the two guys were from the same agency as J, but by the end of page ten, I realized they were the only two people of M’s that hadn’t deserted the hideout. On page ten, I didn’t understand what you meant by “the occupying force on her campus” “True Nation” on p. 12 sounds kind of creepy, and makes me think USA is actually the villain place, though that may stem from the current political climate…still, anyplace naming itself true nation seems arrogant and dystopian. And since the story is being told from the side of a villain, well, then that would make even more sense of the nation isn’t nice. I like it. p. 14 “realize my superior worth and loyalty” I was having a hard time figuring out if Mo was serious or sarcastic in this section. p. 15 and... And what? Also, you use the phrase “two men” a lot on the last page. The last line of the chapter was great! I wasn’t sure if they were going to another of M’s hideouts, or that of another villain. That was the good kind of curiosity that made me want to read on. ___ I know I had a lot of comments, but I did like the story. I just needed a little more of something to ground me in the world.

Yes it is very possible! And it isn't as drastic a change as it sounds. It's more of rewording descriptions, cutting somethings and working others into the character's voice and observation. The readers didn't quite get the same picture as me about my version of future Earth, so I need to work on it. I've been thinking about that a lot this week, mostly while driving and/or in the tutoring center (which is pretty slow this time of year). A lot of the issues people pointed out were me letting my own thoughts on modern problems bleed through and/or me flip-flopping about when this was happening. However, no one picked up on that Earth was in a partially post-apocalyptic state... hence the lack of advances in some areas, and the others, the flying cars and fancy screens -- tech brought in from off-world. It may be at a Star Trek-ish point in the future, but it has very little of that optimism. There is very little, or nothing that hints at that at all until Chapter 3, and that is a problem. According to notes and/or descriptions that didn't make it past draft 2, Earth was in the middle of an environmental crisis when beings from other planets showed up and offered minimal aid. Eventually, a lot of humans left Earth to find better planets. The planet recouped a bit with less population, but remained on the fringes of the galactic government's radar. After the war that is mentioned, beings from planets affected by it fled to earth since Earth was left out of it and a place no one in the galaxy really knew of or cared about. The planet is more or less autonomous, but attached to absentee colonizers that only show up when something like the mysterious artifact from Ch. 1 shows up and has limited access to some advances, and people in places like Di's home town have even less access. I'm obviously not going to have all this completely spelled out in one big info dump, but I will work on making it clearer. A lot of these things can be snuck into a phrase here or a sentence there.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

This is very helpful!! I think as the ms goes on, once people get away from Earth, the present and future are less mismatched so I'll try to work on that. Star Trek is a great comparison for how far into the future I am picturing this. However, if we are mentioning Star Trek, this world is a little more Star Wars because of the fantasy element. Still, I defintly need to spend sometime thinking about when this actually is happening and how that affects Earth.

I want to try to keep the momentum going on this revision, and so far, the feedback has been incredibly helpful. Can I submit again on Monday?

Sam in the interlude and Sam--- in the Chapter are the same character, right? In the interlude, it is clear that Sam is about a year older than S. However, in the chapter, he seems like he is at least 10 years older, if not more. I'll keep this in mind when I read from the begining, which I plan to do at some point this week.

Take the following with a grain of salt... I know this was the end of something I haven't read, but when I am in a bookstore (unfortunately, not as common as it once was) deciding what to read, I generally read the first couple pages and the last couple pages. So I read your ending. General impressions: The story had an interesting world and a good conflict that seemed to resolved but almost wasn't when the section began, but the main characters figured it out and more or less got what they wanted. On a sentence level, the writing needs to be tightened up. For example, "It will be good to discuss with Announcer Oala about how our how our trade may go through their city to reach the Nether floor" could have way less words. The ones I highlighted carry meaning and the others just hold the sentence together. Even if this character just talks overly formal, this sentence still needs tightening. Some of then non-dialog sentences seem this way too. One strategy for fixing the wordiness might be to set an amount of words you want to cut from the whole thing, or a set amount of words to cut per page, and only cut them by editing. I find setting amounts of words to cut helps me clean up my prose, but you may not even be at that point in the process yet. Maybe I'm jumping too far ahead. Structurally, it felt a little too fragmented, and like it had two different endings. However, I advise you to ignore this if those who read the whole thing don't feel this way. For a reader like me, the last line is almost as important like the first. "I held my hand in invitation as my little brothers came running out to meet us." Felt a little flat to me. I like idea of it ending with that image, but as a reader, I want to see it, not to just be told about it. In just a sentence or two, can you describe the image with a little more concrete detail? Anyway, take or leave what you want from this. It was just my general impression from reading the end only.

I guess there is a limit to how backwards and dilapidated one two can be. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I suspect I wasn't thinking I was that far into the future until I got to the diner scene, but the rest of the world building, and stuff that happens later makes more sense 300 years in the future. I will drop the bathroom thing. I probably should have dropped it three revisions ago. Somewhere between space western and retro. Your comments and questions are super-helpful, especially for getting me to hone in on what details are missing and what needs to go. I also like the idea of starting a little later in the opening scene. Thanks!