Ixthos

Honour is fundamentally about order and following a code or procedure - Honour is oaths and organisation and protocol. Odium is emotion and opposition, negative feelings and battle. Cultivation is positive change, growth, things becoming more than they were, and the natural world. Honour and Odium - code and procedure and organisation mixed with conflict and battle - War, two organised forces battling each other Honour and Cultivation - organised upwards growth and the protocol of the natural world - Science, the systems in nature and the discovery and exploration of those systems Cultivation and Odium - upwards growth and nature and the struggle and violence in the environment - Evolution, life battling with life and nature to become better suited for that environment

Indeed. It also contrasts nicely with the idea of Cultivation and Honour as Science, as Science in general implies a peaceful or emotionless logic and upwards growth, while Evolution is messy and full of emotion.

Evolution. Cultivation is growth, becoming stronger, even of thorns. Odium is emotion and conflict, as we know the power likes questions even when Rayse tried to get Sja-anat to just obey. Those two together are evolution.

@Inky very cool you may find it interesting to have radio and internet be a combination, so yellow for light - tuned to a lower energy band - with purple as a type of control or encoding and decoding system. So purple could handle logic and aether.

I'm all for megastructures in the Cosmere, especially if they're investiture related. I like the idea of Taldain as a type of independent city-state planet against a backdrop of other worlds that are focused on expansion, and being centred on a massive enclosure of orbiting collector would certainly be appealing. I'm also with @Anomander Rake in that it should be a Dyson swarm due to the material and logistical issues with making a sphere.

That does make sense and if Stormlight ends with Honour and Odium merged ... well ... I could definitely see Mistborn Era 4 involving a shard called War.

Awesome! also, just a heads up, but you can tag people you want to talk to in a thread using @ and then typing their username, so like this: @ash's_eyes It helps to let others know when you're talking to them. You can also use quotes to highlight any parts of what someone has said you want to respond to Taravangian is a fascinating character mainly because he makes interesting arguments and has done terrible things with ostensibly noble goals. Jasnah also is a great character

Maybe I'm misremembering things, but shardplate for any given order does glow with the light of that order, so the colour isn't fully dependent on the light used but on the order, though we don't know how non-stormlight investiture interacts with different orders in terms of the colour of the light their shardplate produces. It likely is warlight, or a light with a similar composition, but we've seen voidlight power surgebinding if the surgebinder can access it as Venli did with her trapped voidspren, so it probably isn't necessary for the investiture used for any system to be the right kind, only that the invested individual can access it as a source of power.

Hi and welcome to the 17th Shard! Which parts of the Cosmere, in terms of books or world building or characters, are your favourites? Hope you enjoy yourself and have a great time here!

Fun fact, but if you listen to the audio when Brandon says the colour again, he actually starts to say blue but then corrects himself to violet. Listen here at 14:40 https://wob.coppermind.net/media/snippets/501/11197_1411.mp3 I covered this in a theory previously (here), but my own theory is this is possibly a combination of either a Skybreaker and a Windrunner as a new spacefaring organisation - so a new order of Knight - and or powered by a hybrid light. So either a new order, a new light, or a combination of the two.

I suspect their movements would remain in sync but they would individually experience different passages of time, and so trying to move one on the inside of a bubble would produce a movement of the one on the outside that perfectly matches it, but with greater or lesser force, depending. So a Slider trying to move one in a bubble of sped-up time would find it heaver due to the drag on it, and an outside observer would see it moving very quickly, while a Pulser would find it lighter and the outside object would move more slowly to an outside observer. Basically like with gears, you gain greater speed for less torque or vice versa.

And that's how the Reod happened.

Those were some good conversations too

Taravangian - a letter from the new Odium to all other involved parties. Alternatively from Hoid to everyone basically saying "I told you so," or maybe Cultivation corresponding with Hoid or the other Shards. Cosmere spoilers:

Ahhh, well I certainly do have opinions on what makes a god a god, but I don't think now is the time for a theological discussion though while Ba-Ado-Mishram may have been forgotten by the common folk I don't think the Fused or Listeners ever forgot, and their views on what is and isn't a deity are just as relevant as the humans on Roshar. The main focus is on whether more than one person considers that being and beings of its type to be a god. In terms of power I think everything in the "Little Gods" list fits that description - having both power and power over various things, such as the Stormfather being vital to the ecology of the planet. Also, as @Ookla of Axi noted, I did include that in the Power of Creation, category 2. Indeed, the Coppermind Article actually mentions that as a possible secondary name. The reason I didn't write that name is more personal and theological, so I prefer not to write that. I also usually refer to shardmetals and shardspren rather than godmetals and godspren, though for this post I felt referring to the shards as gods, and listing the shardspren as "Little Gods" in the context of others beliefs was relevant, and my own opinion on what is and isn't a god, and hierarchy, are adapting. As mentioned here, "power of creation" is acceptable parlance, though still a bit unusual I'll grant: Though I do agree with you on Brandon's goal to explore what deity means and what is and isn't a god to a people and culture.

I've been noticing something interesting in that, in addition to the Shards, there are also several beings in the Cosmere that want to become gods, or already function in the capacity of gods, to various peoples on the various planets. There are at least six categories of gods in the Cosmere. Three quotes from Rhythm of War, and of course the various references to deities not directly linked to the Shards, bring this mainly to mind, two of them relating to the Unmade, and one from Odium: Interlude I-2: Sja-anat (the last entry mainly to establish the Sibling, despite not claiming to be a god, as being in the same general category) Chapter 73: Which Master to Follow Chapter 114: Broken Gods Now I think the categories for deities in the Cosmere - are as follows: 1) The God Beyond The Absolute, and a topic Brandon wouldn't like to confirm, leaving the option for the reader to decide, above the Cosmere and into our own world 2) The Power of Creation The dead and broken force that was splintered into the Shards - above the Shards as by implication it could use all the powers they individually could - such as possessing Preservation's ability to hear any soul and Ruins ability to speak to any soul with cracks within it - though the question remains if, for example, it hadn't been fully killed and only 1/16th of its power as separated from it, would that single Shard be a match in terms of power, or would it be inferior? Certainly the idea could be that, when the power was broken, while its individual parts remained, though now separate, that there was a 17th part that was lost to the Shards, something necessary. Perhaps even why the organisation known as the 17th Shard was formed. 3) The Shards - the High Gods / the Broken Gods The strongest beings still existing and confirmed to be in the Cosmere, though several Vessels are now dead and their Shards splintered. There are still questions, such as if, for example, Harmony is equally matched with Trell, and if so what if Trell isn't a combination of other Shards, but rather is a single Shard, or an Avatar of a Shard? Still, these beings, locked into single modes, are certainly both broken and high. Broken as their goals are too singular, too narrow, and their minds still mortal minds, still susceptible to weakness, as noted by other characters who interacted with them, such as Vin and Dalinar, both seeing the humanity in their enemies, and knowing that it could be exploited. High as they control and are related to all the investiture in the Cosmere, and have power over worlds and people. 3.5) Avatars A unique and somewhat odd spot, these are maybe synonymous with their parent Shard, instead being like a second, possibly subordinate Vessel, sharing the Shard with its main Vessel. Or perhaps if a Shard has an Avatar there is no hierarchy - that would certainly fit with Autonomy, as there is an ironic element to a Shard focused on individuality who can pull the chain on Avatars of individuality. They may also be simply larger Splinters, or Splinters more in tune with the parent Shard, like an offshoot from a tree, rather than a stick that broke off. Either way, they are certainly more powerful than Invested individuals, but possibly less powerful than a full Shard, unless Trell is an Avatar - though it begs the question, could an Avatar seek to absorb Splinters of other Shards into itself, to become more? That is my own theory on Trell, that it is an Avatar who sees the best use of their Autonomy to take up as much power as it can from other sources, to become Autonomous from Autonomy itself, and find its own path. Either way, this category exists either directly between the "Little Gods" and the Shards, or as part of the Shards category or as part of the "Little Gods" category. 4) The "Little Gods" The main focus of this discussion. The Splinters, and things that may not be exactly Splinters. Perhaps Avatars are included, but that was discussed above. Though technically any Splinter would count, I think only the exceptionally strong Splinters, and related beings, fit this category. For all Syl jokes, or says with seriousness, that she is a god, the Stormfather, Sibling, Nightwatcher and the Unmade sit in this category better than she or any Radiant spren does. Though not all may claim this, the general level of power they possess, and their control over various properties that affect entire worlds or regions of the world, and the claims of their cousins, these constitute beings at least considered to be deities, and which are powerful, but which are lesser in power than the Shards. A short list of some possible examples: The Stormfather, the Sibling, and the Nightwatcher The Unmade (Avatars, unless they fully fit the Shards) Possibly the beings or forces associated with Sel's nations and regions, one of which may be what chooses who becomes an Elantrian, so Jaddeth and Domi and others The Evil on Threnody 5) Invested Individuals Elantrians, Returned, The Lord Ruler, the Herelds, a certain Cognitive Shadow, and others besides, including the more humble Mistings and Ferrings to the Southern Scadrians. Does Wyrn count? Skathan? Perhaps Spren other than the more powerful type are included here too. Sleepless, Hoid, and others also fit this category in part, though the Sleepless may better fit the next category. 6) Mythology The mythical beings and legends, beings which may tie directly to one or two or more of the above categories. Does Marsh, Iron Eyes, count as a mythologyical figure due to the traits associated with him, or as an Invested individual? Is Patji as an Island a full match to Patji as an Avatar? Kelsier as he is now vs Kelsier as Preservation vs Kelsier in the mythology of the North and the South? What of the religions of pre-TLR Scadrial? These may be real beings, or based on real beings, but they have more traits associated with them than they actually possess or possessed, or there is not enough information available to say what they actually are related to. Are there any categories? Any individuals not mentioned? Hope you are well!

@Ookla the unintelligible and @Child of Hodor, I haven't been able to watch the show yet, but in the books, while they were pillow friends, that term wasn't ever fully explored, and in both New Spring and the Great Hunt both Moiraine and Siuan discuss how they had talked to each other about finding princes to marry: New Spring: CHAPTER 18, A Narrow Passage the Great Hunt: CHAPTER 4, Summoned So while they might have had a relationship it also included discussions of wanting to marry men rather than each other, and those wishes were dismissed now not due to no longer wanting them, but to realising the dream was likely impossible.

Thank you all for clarifying this for me, and I have a better idea of my mistake now. For future reference, how do you go about broaching the topic of making a new page? I feel like I've overlooked something essential in that regard. I likely won't make a new page again, just general edits in future, not without clearing them first at least, and once again I apologise for my impulsive action. That wasn't my intention with the page, as I wanted to collate some of the properties the visions shared rather than just go into detail, such as the emphasis on requiring connection and being able to ride someone else's connection to pull someone one otherwise isn't connected to into one, as is what happened with Kaladin when Odium used Moash, and how Lift, Odium, and Hoid broke into different visions, as well as the implied physicality - such as Kelsier chewing on a blade of grass, Nightblood's powers transferring in with a Spiritual or Cognitive component in the vision, etc. - and with that can be done within them and how actions can still partially bleed into what one does in the physical realm. Still, that is moot at this point - I'll wait until someone with more experience than I either deletes the page or turns it into a redirect, and then work on the visions topic as a subsection of the Spiritual Realm page. This likely is for the best anyway, as this had started to become a distraction to me from my work - I think my making the page was partially a stress response to real life responsibilities, but that is neither here nor there, nor relevant to this discussion, though I felt like I needed to justify myself. Again, I am sorry, and I hope this hasn't been an inconvenience for anyone. Ahhh! Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. I can see my error more clearly now, beyond just acting without checking. Though if one does wish to make a new page, how would one go about asking the other editors for their opinions and objections?

Visions do seem to be used consistently though, as I think every example of someone being pulled into such a construct is referred to by the characters as a vision - I would argue Renarin's visions are similarly taking place in the same type of environment Dalinar's and other's have, especially as we've seen those in the visions will act them out or talk about them, as shown with Spook when he spoke with Kelsier. For being added to the Spiritual Realm page, I can see and agree that would make sense, but Visions are also stated to be filtered through the Cognitive, so they don't belong purely to the Spiritual, and we know even less about Cognitive Anomalies, so wouldn't it make sense for them to likewise be added to the Cognitive Realm page? Again, I'm happy to go with whatever gets agreed on by the majority, and I do apologise if I jumped the gun in making that page. I just would like, regardless of the outcome, to understand where the distinction comes in, as I do feel there is less to recommend Cognitive Anomaly as a page than Visions, though again if Visions is to be folded into the Spiritual Realm page and Cognitive Anomaly remains its own page I will accept that too. Hmmm ... I think Renarin's visions are likewise still visions, especially as they tie to Odium's sense of the future. A key thing is that, in the chapter just before Odium is killed, Dalinar is in a vision with Odium that very much seems to parallel the description of what Taravangian experienced, looking out over the horizon at possibilities, albeit with more sunrises. As seeing the future is tied to the Spiritual Realm in the cosmere, and as I recall Glys was also with Renarin in the vision, I feel they are still the same category. [Edit] To support my claim Visions are more than just Spiritual Realm: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332/#e9562

I made the Visions page earlier today, and I would like to thank those who have assisted already in adding and formatting content. With that said, @King of Herdaz mentioned in their edit that they didn't think the page should exist, and while I disagree with that - and would like to discuss that - I realise I may have overstepped myself in making the page, and while I still would like to petition for its continued existence, if it is decided it should go and its content be merged with another page, I understand. With that said, I feel Visions should be their own page. They are both a power Shards and non-Shards (such as Renarin) possess, as well as being locations in the Spiritual Realm. Thus they are present on multiple worlds (at least Roshar and Scadrial), have been used by at least two Shards (Honour - I will keep using Honor in coppermind pages though - and Odium), by at least one non-Shard (Renarin, and arguably Dalinar), have affected multiple people (Gavilar, Dalinar, the people Dalinar has pulled into visions, Kaladin, Taravangian, Moash, Spook, and arguably what the Stormfather does when he speaks to people and spren), can have various properties such as being predefined or broken into and altered by Shards and other individuals such as Lift, and aren't just a power but a type of location, as Brandon has implied they are a pocket dimension or pocket universe in the Spiritual Realm, and one can even interact with objects there, such as Nightblood and the now vessel-less Shard of Odium. Contrast that with other pages, such as Cognitive Anomaly, I feel there is enough distinctiveness to the topic to justify it having its own page. I hope I have made my case well, though I will accept whatever the consenses on this topic is.

Finally got my email confirmation sorted using another of my gmail accounts, and I'll be shifting it back to my main one later. Thanks again for your help!

Hi guys. I wrote something in my journal a few days back, and while it wasn't strictly just encouragement for writing fiction, and isn't particularly poetic, I felt like it might be helpful to share it. It is hard to write a first draft well. It is easy to write a terrible first draft It is impossible to edit a blank page It is easy to edit terrible writing into passable It is difficult to find the motivation to write a bad first draft when you hold a false ideal in your mind It is easy to edit a passable text into a good one It is tricky to edit good text into great text It is so satisfying to make a good final draft! I hope everyone writing something now, whether for a project, for fiction, for any intended role, is well. I hope your writing goes well, and I hope you are motivated and encouraged, of good cheer, and have some sort of encouragement for yourselves. Take care and God bless!

... I swear I checked my spam folder before this. Thank you, I found the confirmation email in the spam folder, I don't know how I missed it, though now it says the code is invalid. It does say it will expire on the 30th, so I'll wait until the start of next month and try registering my email again. Still, thank you, and thank you for adding me to the editors list! I'll be sure to contact you if I have further questions or if the issue persists, but until then thank you again and I hope the rest of your day and week are good ones!

I've been watching a lot of How to Train Your Dragon recently, both the movies and the series Race to the Edge and Rescue Riders (which despite being for children I really enjoyed), remembering the Dragonriders of Pern, and so dragons have been more on my mind recently, especially as friends and allies of humans, and in terms of physical diversity. I felt I should give a brief update on my thoughts about dragons in my writing. the spirits are still the main dragons, true dragons, and partially the source of the physical insect dragon-like species, though I haven't yet resolved if the spirits appear as dragons because of the physical dragon species, or the physical dragon species appear as dragons because of the spirits the physical insect dragon-like species is now officially the most morphologically diverse and widespread of the human related species, displacing the previous holder of that position - a plant-based six-limbed no-mouth species - as the most widespread and morphologically diverse race, partially due to their ability to direct their own development to match any ecosystem they encounter Their semi-hive mind nature lends itself towards dragon rider relationships with some other species, though the majority still mainly live in technologically advanced swarms, some of which are major empires in the various universes, often in conflict with one another, though as with most species there are a mixture of advanced cultures and lower-tech cultures, as well as those with magic and without magic None of them look like classical dragons from real world cultures, as all combine elements from various arthropods into the mix, along with the classic reptilian, avian, and feline traits, though some go so far as to be almost unrecognisable as dragons due to the assimilated traits of other species