marianmi

Yes, that is a reasonable interpretation. Unite the surgebinders, bring back KR orders that fight united.

Except that I think somebody wielding an honorblade would be more powerful than someone with a normal shardblade.

Well... Syl can be honorspren as in attracted to the honorable attribute, or can be Honorspren as in a splinter of Honor, or both. Honorspren - splinters of Honor - can be multiple types of spren (there are indications from Brandon that there are many spren with different ...degrees... of Honor power in them) - so she can be of windspren type. However, I don't think that. I prefer to think of her as Honorspren honorspren

@mrwerd - you mean feed his body to the cremlings? Not sure they had dogs there on the plains... I think all of you mistake the current Kaladin to the Kaladin in Amaram's army. The two are different persons, Kaladin changed a lot in the meantime. If not for Syl he might not even have come back for Dalinar. Kaladin might have given Amaram the shards - that was not the problem. But why wouldn't he changed his mind later - maybe, with new squad, he would have decided that having shards would have protected his squad better, so he might have went back to Amaram and asked for the shards back. And that's exactly what Amaram tried to avoid. The temptation was great then, and I think it likely Kaladin would have succombed. Maybe we would even have thought that having the shards he would become a better lighteyes that the others. So I don't really have a big problem with how Amaram acted. Kaladin is the one that behaved irrationally there. There are stories about men coming and winning shards. There are men joining the army with that hope. Proving them wrong, Kaladin would have subminated the entire war, darkeyes would not join the army anymore and they would rebel. I think all of you confuse the current Kaladin with the old Kaladin - yes the material is the same, but the circumstances are very different - and fail to see the bigger picture - much like Kaladin failed to see the bigger picture in the bridge run when, because of him, hundreds of bridgemen died and Sadeas lost the fight. EDIT: think about it in this way: out of all the highprinces, do you see anyone letting Kaladin alive after that? Current Dalinar, yes, but then he would have tried to explain to everyone Kaladin gave up the shards and did not steal them, no darkeyes would have believed him, rumours would have started, nobody would have joined his army, there would have been a big fight with Adolin, and Dalinar would have ended up stepping down as highprice. All because of a stubborn darkeye.

@mrwerd, on the grand scheme of things, Amaram's choice was the good one. If Kaladin would have kept the shards, he would have saved as many lives as Amaram did. Soldier with shards, in Amaram's army. He would have done what Amaram ordered. What Amaram did these 2 years, Kaladon would have done. Same shards, different person. With Kaladon a shardbearer - with a Blade - Syl would not have bonded him (she stays away from Blades). He would not be now on the path of becoming a KR. He would not have saved all those lives. Thus, you see, Amaram's choice was the best. Amaram IS responsible for all those Kaladin saved. Without him, Kaladin would not have saved them. Add those that Amaram himself saves with the shards, minus those he killed, and per total Amaram I think ends up saving more people than Kaladin.

I think everyone will be surprised by Shallan this book Maybe in March we won't her anywhere NEAR renarin or kaladin

Not sure if everything was put together like in this theory, but here are my thoughts: * When Tanavast died (or maybe at the Recreance), there was a block that prevented spren crossing realms (or if they would cross, they would lose their sentience ) - or maybe prevents them from making bonds. Basically, no spren in the Physical could maintain their cognitive connection and they would .. float around, mindlessly... * Gavilar (maybe using dark stormlight?) managed to break this block ("Tell Thaidakar he is too late...") - now it is possible for spren in the Physical realm to keep their sentience - probably bonding is now possible again (and they can use the human), or the connection with Shadesmar is possible (as in bonding was theoretically possible before too, but the spren would still be dumb and hence no power granted to the human - he would be unaware of the bond or the spren actually, so the bond would be completely useless). Bonus: the parshendi gods are bonding spren - they are actually pieces of the shards, so they qualify as gods - and, bonded, they can be terrible - we've seen surgebinders can be very evil and almost destroy the world (like in Nohadan's time), plus spren can bind other creatures that can wreak havoc, not to mention corrupted spren. This can explained why people had the impression that chasmfiends are parshendi gods - because they are! - they are bonded to spren. But parshendi were not scared about their "return", because they are ... lesser gods ... than the ... more advanced and intelligent spren gods that can bind with humans (and maybe parshendi too). And this can explain the parshendi reaction to Kaladin - they recognized he was ... "possessed"... by one of their gods... Hope this makes sense, I wrote this before having coffee Another bonus: Wyndle says he is not a voidbringer - so maybe a voidbringer is another type of spren (honorspren, cultivationspren, voidbringer a.k.a. odiumspren) - or a corrupted spren. But I would be inclined in voidbringers being odiumspren.

Why aren't the Heralds part of the Parshendi gods? Supernatural, powerful, immortal...? So why not gods for them too? These "gods" must be something that existed before humans, at least in some form... => why not powerful spren? I don't think the 10 fools are their gods, otherwise the heralds would be viewed the same. And I don't think Odium is their gods, since he would be their god (singular). So what other intelligent beings we have, old, powerful, not with powers given (like the heralds or the surgebinders)? The spren. They are gods, and pieces of gods. So that's my opinion Note: to be more exact, the gods would actually be the voidbringers - bonded spren - as opposed to unbonded spren. Semantics aside, I think the parshendi, like Darkness, were trying to prevent the return of the bonding spren. Maybe there was a block between the physical and the cognitive put in place when Tanavast dies or by the KR at the recreance... and Gavilar broke it...

I think both Kaladin and Amaram will not show anything when they meet. Kaladin has a station now and the resolve to act like it. And Amaram does not want to give others leverage on him. I don't even think Kaladin will talk not even to Dalinar about Amaram. He's still not trusting the lighteyes, and he might think they will think he is boasting about killing a shardholder. He will probably just tell Dalinar not to trust Amaram, and be careful around him, but not more... That's my 2c...

What if the parshendi gods are "intelligent" spren - honorspren and cultivationspren? The parshendi killed Gavilar to stop that, but they failed. (i said intelligent spren, as opposed to less intelligent spren, non-splinters, that humans can't bond, but parshendi can)

@Shardlet - thanks for the link, beat me to it. @ccstat - Heralds were supposed to leave their blades too, but one of them went back for it. It is very unusual to seek eachother out, but I think it's clear that at least they know what each of them is doing (e.g. Darkness knows about Jez, and this guy from Jasnah prologue knows about Shallash). So I don't find it impossible...

If that's the latest chart, the surge would be Kelek's ... hmmmm What would be the chances for those 2 to be Kelek and Nalan? Could there be another way to manipulate the Parshendi into war? I'm pretty sure Darkeness had a hand in setting up the war, and probably handed Szeth's stone to them. Opinions?

I was under the impression that in the purelake there was a (corrupted) spren with red eyes, not a corrupted fish. Also, I don't think it's easy for spren to break bond and jump to new "host", i.e. if the corrupted spren bonded with a fish, then you get a fish voidbringer, and that's it. Kill the fish, kill the spren. Or, for those that have seen Heroes: kill the fish, save the world!

2) I think the small consensus currently is that Bondsmiths are order 8... I personally voted for #10, although now I think the name "Bondsmith" fits better with resolute/builder (#8) than with pious/guiding (#10) 3) The unknown surge is shared by #9 and #10 https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ydL4T39EyU8/UlzVzEQfvWI/AAAAAAAAAu8/-pEx4sWbKG8/w1200-h795-no/Knight+Orders.jpg - Ishar is Herald #10. 4) Why is Ishar likely the drunk guy? Why not Jezrien? Or anyone else? You put strong opinions on some things which are unproven and quite shaky. About lightweaving ... it might allow disguises or not. I also suggested some kind of mind control for last surge. I don't think Gavilar with an Honorblade would have been beaten by Szeth. And how else can Szeth's surgebinding can be explained? If not the Blade?

The gemhearts are a result of a rift of the spiritual realm.

I smiley faced the irony ... guiding ...

@Moogle: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4887-darkness-manipulated-the-parshendi-to-kill-gavilar/

There are a few things left unanswered: * how did the Parshendi, in a foreign land, found an assassin the same night they decided they needed one? * how did they get Szeth's stone? There is evidence to suggest Lyss employed Szeth - how come she decided to give Szeth's stone to the Parshendi? * why did the Parshendi abandoned the oathstone afterwards? * why did they sent an assassin, and a foreign one at that? why didn't a Parshendi do it? did they know Szeth has a shardblade? Eshonai had one too... so why send an assassin then take credit? One of the reasons for an assassination is to hide the killer - but here they took credit. Why tehn don't do the deed themselves? Hence my theory above: what if they were influenced, without them knowing, in doing this? There is a very very good chance that the 2 ambassadors in Jasnah's prologue are Heralds. The two and "Ash" are part of the same group. Ash - Shallash - Heralds. There has been the theory that Darkness is Nalan - a Herald. Darkness wants to stop surgebinders and the emergence of the KR. Gavilar wanted to recreate the KR orders. It should be clear that Gavilar got the attention of Darkness. Gavilar wanted to create an order of surgebinders, whereas Darkness is killing every surgebinder he get his hands on. All these angles come together in the first part of my theory - Darkness wanted to get rid of Gavilar, and manipulated the Parshendi to assasinate him. This would result in war, which would keep the Alethi busy from discovering what Gavilar was working on. And in the meantime, Darkness/Nalan could go around and continue his hunt. But how did he manipulated the Parshendi? This is the second part of my theory. He was with another Herald. One who could be able to use the surge that we know nothing about - Ishar!. Hence - what if that surge allows you to disguise yourself (and Ishar replaced a Parshendi, come up with the idea to kill Gavilar, and gave them Szeth's oathstone, knowing exactly what it was, and that Szeth has Jezrien's blade as well). Or if the surge allows you to influence the thoughts of others - then Ishar put these ideas in the Parshendi's minds...? EDIT: Ishar's attribute is "GUIDING" ... did he do just that? GUIDE the Parshendi into war with humans?

It's a repost from another thread, but I think this theory deserves its own thread. We now know (WoB) there is one Herald that has his blade (not Taln). My guess is Nalan. Darkness. This can be understood as: I don't like that the assasin has the blade. What we have done, manipulating the Parshendi to hire Szeth to kill Gavilar, is wrong. That guy has Jezrien's own blade. We shouldn't have let him keep it. We should have taken it away from him. Now, why is Brandon tight-lipped about the last surge? What does it do?? My guesses: mind control or change of appearance. I bet the other Herald with Darkness is Ishar. PS: look very very closely at Nalan's right eye. PSS: Now, doesn't the war with the Parshendi looks like Darkness's hand in stopping Gavilar recreating the KR orders?! What was Darkness doing there, if not making sure the war was started and Gavilar killed?

Easy peasy. Nalan. Darkness. EDIT: This can be understood as: I don't like that the assasin has the blade. What we have done, manipulating the Parshendi to hire Szeth to kill Gavilar, is wrong. That guy has Jezrien's own blade. We shouldn't have let him keep it. We should have taken it away from him. Now, why is Brandon tight-lipped about the last surge? What does it do?? My guesses: mind control or change of appearance. I bet the other Herald with Darkness is Ishar. PS: look very very closely at Nalan's right eye. PSS: Now, doesn't the war with the Parshendi looks like Darkness's hand in stopping Gavilar recreating the KR orders?! What was Darkness doing there, if not making sure the war was started and Gavilar killed? ANOTHER EDIT: Discussions about this here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4887-darkness-manipulated-the-parshendi-to-kill-gavilar/

+1 wanted to say the same.

I don't think there are many cognitively impaired that can be classified as 'people'. A while ago I was thinking of starting the topic if the Reshi greatshells island are 'people', if their spren is an intelligent Adonalsium spren. However, upon further considerations, there are several things that stand out: * Parshmen, without any spren, are still intelligent (Shen). A spren bond improves their attributes, but "higher intelligence" is there already. * For the mistwraits, you have a spike to break the block. That's an invested object. The spren is more than that - it's a splinter, an invested "thing" with sentience. So it's not clear if the Reshi islands sentience is gained from the spren, or unblocked by the spren. For the parshendi, this is not applicable, because they are sentient without a spren. * People also gain something from bonding spren, but, again, not sentience. * Looks to me spren can bond 2 things: sentient races (humans, parshendi - probably aimians too? what do we get when an aimian bonds? hmmmm); and animals with gemhearts (probably because spren are invested + sentient, gemheart probably the "body" of a Shard => sentient greatshell with probably some tricks up their sleeves ?)

I wonder if this will be the thing that will turn the tide in the Desolation - locking the corrupted spren in their shape, such that they can't become thunderclasts or something else...

I was under the impression that Vin is around too ("However, be assured that I have spoken with our friends, and they are quite happy where they are") - I thought that Sazed cannot talk to those who "went towards the light". I'm not sure though, so please correct me if I am wrong

I would love something like this: Dalinar: "Amaram, this is Kaladin, my new captain of the Cobalt Guards. I've seen him battling a Shardbearer with nothing but a spear... He saved my life that day!" Amaram: "Erm, yeah, me too... mine too..."