marianmi

We've seen that Jasnah was very very tired, so probably she was quite unable to do anything :-S

I already proposed this a while ago, so I am repeating myself: What if "3 of the 16 ruled" does not include Odium? What if Odium was on Braize, so there would be Honor, Cultivation + another shard ? My theory in relation to this was that the corners of the surgebinding shard contains "pure" splinter-spren from each shard - Syl honorspren, Wyndle cultivationspren, Cryptics adonalsiumspren, and Stormwarden-spren from the 3rd shard. "Now the broken one rules" - I think the broken one is Adonalsium. Honorspren, cultivationspren and stormspren used to rule Shadesmar, but now Cryptics rule.

Crosspost: * Honorspren vs. Cryptics - maybe Honorspren were the lighteyes until the humans broke their oaths. Then honorspren lost their status (oaths were broken) and Cryptics rose to power (lies were told).

But Syl is a Honorspren - aligned with Honor. I think there are spren more or less aligned with Honor, and Syl is more. So for example Skybreaker spren is also aligned with Honor, but not as much as Syl - so he calls itself an honospren as well.

She is the target of oh so many assassination attempts. None of them will succeed, but she will trip on her dress, and fall in a chasm and die Seriously now, I see her appear to be dying, her body never found, and one week later Shallan hearing the words... "Shallan..... I have found it.... I am there.... The path is.... NOOOOOOOOO".

OK, I waited to post my findings, but I get a few minutes of free time now. Here's few theories that might not have been discussed previously... Sorry for the length, but OH SO MUCH INFORMATION! * Jasnah knowing about the oaths - probably Ivory told her about them, but not what they are, like Syl told Kaladin. Probably she only spoke one - "Journey before destination..." when she started researching the voidbringers after her father's death - maybe she swear to find out why he was killed or something, and then the words came to her? The idea is that I don't think she has spoken any of the Elsecallers oaths. Ivory must be frustrated with her * Jasnah telling Shallan not to surgebind, but focus on her other ability - if she that herself, than she can Travel already. We'll probably see her doing that in WoR. * Syl and Ivory bonded w/o permission, and are both reluctant to be seen by other people. Pattern is a "lighteye" and possibly came with permission, so he doesn't care if he gets seen? * There are lots of bonding spren "sightings" around surgebinders (bridge 4 know about syl, pattern is seen by everyone), but not so much in the KR visions. In the visions, all KR wear plate - so maybe spren fuel/inhabit the plate when it's being worn? * Bonding spren - since they get dumb, they probably lose the Shadesmar connection - otherwise Shallan would go shadesmar and talk sense with Pattern. So Syl would not know what happened in the last year in Shadesmar, or if other honorspren were later allowed to come bond. It is curious that Jasnah saw Ivory in both physical and Shadesmar the first time she soulcasted.. but maybe Ivory was not yet in the physical, and appeared to Jasnah as a shadow from Shadesmar. E.g. gloryspren appear from cognitive then dissapear when they are not attracted anymore by ... a sense of glory... so they go back to shadesmar. That's how Ivory appeared as a shadow the first time, then Jasnah went Shadesmar, where she saw Ivory again. Then Ivory decided to cross over. Makes sense? * Darkness and the Stormfather seem to be in agreement about surgebinders not being allowed to exist. And the Parshendi. Hmmm.... * Syl and Ivory were more ... articulate ... when they started talking, and they were able to tell their names. Pattern seems more lost than any of them were. He will probably remember his name and tell it to Shallan, but she will probably continue to call him Pattern. Also, Ivory and Syl seem to think akin to humans, Cryptics seem to be more ... alien. So they might not even have names * Honorspren vs. Cryptics - maybe Honorspren were the lighteyes until the humans broke their oaths. Then honorspren lost their status (oaths were broken) and Cryptics rose to power (lies were told). * Chapters 8, 9 seem so much smaller (especially Chapter 8) and are missing Navani's journal entries. Probably Chapter 8 continues with the letter content, and was cut to make a hook? Chapter 7 probably has the ship-wreck - they were maybe attacked by pirates working for Mr. T? Maybe Jasnah will do her thing and just Transport them to the Shattered Plains - or maybe she can't go where she has never been before? * Syl never saw the red lightning spren before, and she did not react as when she heard the name "Odium" - I doubt they are spren directly influenced by Odium. Maybe they are more like "anticipation-spren", or maybe they are the storm-spren attracted by the Parshendi, to be used for their storm-form? * Spren gets locked when measured correctly - Shallan is not measuring Pattern, but drawing him. Intent is important as well. Or maybe she is just very far from drawing him correctly, with his infinite fractal shape... Maybe he's talking like that because of the Horneaters all talk like that, throughout the history, all coming from the forgotten fact that gems are Honor's body ... so a gem is (part of) Him, the Almighty...

Yeah, probably she was informing the people in the camps Lan will be passing through the Shattered Plains on his way to the Last Battle Desolation. Death is lighter than a feather. Duty, heavier than a mountain."

I don't think cryptics are attracted to people that lie to other people... I think they are attracted to people that live a lie, that lie to themselves. Still the question would remain... On the other hand, they might want to bond with him just because he is king... you know, the king of spren with the king of Alethela (ex KR-land).

Well, it means that: * WoR is not gonna end when Odium potentially shows up after 62 days * events start happening immediately, otherwise she would have said maybe "past month" - which is the last 50 days, 12 days before the deadline expires.

So this means Navani's notes are way past the 62 days deadline...

So how many days are 2 months?

Maybe you're wrong, maybe not... but this is not a bad theory. The only problem I have is that you have "honorspren", "cultivationspren" and "cryptics". Since there are discussions between spren who gets to be called "honorspren" -- there must be more than 1 type of honorspren (so not only windrunner spren, like syl, is calling itself honorspren) -- then I don't see why liespren call themselves "cryptics" and not "cultivationspren". And why are they the lighteyes of spren? With windrunners having the Stormfather as the patron herald, and honorspren being more ... discerning... than other types of spren, I would have thought that, at least in KR times, honorspren were in charge. Maybe cryptics started ruling after the recreance, maybe they were the ones to warn spren that humans would betray spren -- so they were proven right and gained the upper hand -- this would explain also the dissensions between cryptics and honorspren.

"plus, where would you put voidspren? emotion or natural forces? what about cryptics and adonalsium spren?" better? we know that there are adonalsium spren, so there might be some of them bonding humans...

yeah, i think jasnah is definitely wrong. plus, where would you put voidspren? emotion or natural forces? what about cryptics (adonalsium spren)?

If (bonded) Parsh are generally voidbringers, I think it is because they can be influenced (maybe through their songs) by Odium (like kandra, koloss or inquisitors were influenced by Ruin). So this would mean all parshendi are voidbringers -- the only exception would be some that manage to fool Odium (like Kandra took out their spikes or Marsh was able to break free for a second from direct Ruin's influence). Of course, this is a very long shot and I might be very wrong

Surges can be used in various unexpected ways. For example, my theory is that spanreeds work by somehow using the Division surge -- they need a DIVIDED ruby - the gem of the Dustbringers. So I don't think dividing a Dustbringer's power with humans is out of the question.

* There is no proof that ALL radiants severed their bonds - maybe only a lot of them did, but enough to trigger spren's reaction to stop their bonding. So maybe some bonds were ended by the spren. * The Feverstone Keep vision indicates that Tanavast was alive at the Recreance. Maybe he was killed right after - being deserted by his soldiers. Maybe the Recreance had a profound impact on spren, leading to a weakening of Honor, enough to allow its Splintering.

What does "spoilers" mean? Can we haz the text to understand what this thing iz? EDIT: I can seez 300 codes.

* who says the message is a warning? Dalinar and co. seems to be interpreting it this way, but maybe it's not a warning. * I used the word "Parsh" to refer both to Parshmen and Parshendi * I am not sold on the idea of looking into the future = voidbringer as well. But, I am interpreting the words of Navani written after (some of the) events unfolded already - and she says that one clue that they did not fully comprehend at the time was the message, and that looking into the future is of the voidbringers. I understand from her notes that it was a voidbringer that left that message.

Yeah But liespren is a good a name as any. I think they are attracted to the lies that we tell ourselves (not the lies that we tell others). That kind of lies are signs of some big cracks in a person's soul (bigger than Kaladin's or Jasnah's emotional scars), so there can be a big "something else" that can be fit there

OK, let's read again Navani's notes put head to head. - out first clue was the parshendi. - out second clue was the writing on the wall. While Sanderson can hide a lot behind his words, I think reading Navani's diary head to head provides a good indication of the events that happened, written AFTER the events. So we have the notes from the future, and the chapters that show how events are unfolding. * Based on those notes, I don't think the parshendi are responsible for the writing in the wall, otherwise the second clue would have been included in the first one... * Navani's notes are referencing "the past 2 months", so this is the span of WoR. Can somebody determine how many days are in 2 months? * Spren can hardy influence the physical (Syl was barely able to transport a few leaves, and Wyndle can do less), so I don't think it was a spren that left the message * I think the consensus is that Voidbringers are the Parshendi. There are only few right now that think otherwise. There were no indications that there were any Parshmen around Dalinar when he had his vision. (To be honest, there are no indications that there were not.) But the message, predicting the future, is not of Honor, and according to current information, and as Navani mentions, is of Voidbringers. So, putting this together, one possible implication here is that the (potential) voidbringer that left that message is not Parsh - but maybe human. Humans becoming voidbringers can be an interesting turn, with everyone thinking the Parshendi are. * We all know Moash is set up for his revenge against some lighteyes. Truly hope it's not someone in the Kholin family... (his snapping at the king's guards and then sheepishly saying to Kaladin that he's right looks very very fishy to me...) Also hope it was not Moash the one that left the message... though another possibility is that Renarin was the one (and Dalinar knows something about it -- maybe Renarin being a voidbringer is Dalinar's curse lol -- ahem @weirywriter) * While Sadeas looks a boring villain, it does not mean he will not find a way to truly be the villain Another interesting twist would be Sadeas actually succeeding in bringing down the Kholin family -- maybe he defeats Adolin in their bout (maybe by killing him too) -- this would definitely spark a war between the camps. This could be the pain, loss, etc that Navani talks about. And maybe while fighting, they all get attacked by the parshendi (in storm form, whatever that is ). Or maybe the parshendi join Dalinar's losing side, since Eshonai looks keen on having a friendly meeting with Dalinar. There are lots of possibilities here

Comparing humans with gemstones makes no sense. Gemstones don't glow because they leak stormlight.

I agree that windrunner spren is the center of honorspren, but I think edgedancer spren is the center of cultivationspren. But lightweavers spren (cryptics) are also special (maybe center of adonalsium spren?) -- which makes me think there are 4 important spren types -- can't wait to see a stonewarden. I believe Jasnah's spren (elsecallers) has some elements of Honor, although it makes no sense with the surge chart.

Non radiant surgebinders would glow more than radiants, since they leak more stormlight. Maybe the were "infused" to gain strength to wield their hammers.

* it was not Szeth - he would not scratch stone, since stone is sacred * it was either male or non-human - the glyphs were not practiced * it was done by someone with access, someone that would be around without drawing suspicions so it was maybe Renarin or Dalinar. oh, I know! IT WAS GAZ!