mdross81

Great questions @robardin With this line: and the line with Turash, I wonder if it’s that: the only way to prevent the Fused from returning via the Everstorm would be to reclaim their Investiture, and it’s the difference between reclaiming the Investiture from one Fused (which Odium could presumably weather) versus reclaiming from all of them, which would somehow destroy him. I don’t really know why that would destroy him. Maybe it would go back on some promise he made to them? Also just wanted to add to the mix this other line from the same chapter: Interesting that he can’t do anything at all about the Regals.

I strongly suspect that the Sibling was able to hear Cultivation’s tone again because Venli was able to find/hear it when she was communing with the stones and practicing her stoneshaping.

Definitely weird. The only implication of it we’ve really seen is that the singers (and maybe Horneaters or other descendants of human/singer intermixing) see more of a spren’s CR appearance than humans do. As Axindweth puts it they seemed to see “the reality of the spren, or closer to it.”

Yeah, this was my thinking as well in mentioning Lift’s straddling of the realms. As I think more about it, I’m reminded of the Song of Spren: So merely having a mind closer to the CR, as the singers do, doesn’t seem to interest the true spren who (until recent events) would generally only form Nahel bonds with humans. The Nahel bond is a melding of the souls of spren and human. So, taking all of that into account, it would seem to suggest that it’s not simply that Lift’s mind is closer to the CR. Rather it seems there’s probably some spiritual mumbo jumbo connection to the CR going on with her, right? p.s. @LewsTherinTelescope congrats on the promotion

There’s also the thing about Lift existing partially in the Cognitive Realm. That may have had an impact on Wyndle’s transition as well. From Edgedancer chapter 4:

I get your thought on the timing of things, but have a different view. I laid it out it another thread that has a good discussion about the timing of events with the false desolation. In fact, the other thread is probably a better place for discussing this since the question of timing is sorta tangential to what the OP of this thread was asking about. Here’s a link:

RoW spoiler period ended earlier this week. So RoW content can now appear in this forum without needing to be tagged. Plus, I’m pretty sure this was originally posted in one of the RoW forums and has just been relocated here now that the spoiler period is over. Also, on a more substantive note, I like your take on how a Kal-Moash contest of champions might go down and how it could end up with Odium satisfied no matter the outcome. Though, damn, your merciful Kal ending would be a bleak conclusion of Kal’s arc.

We don’t know. But I’ve had the same thought that perhaps, pre-Recreance/BAM’s capture, spren could retain their minds in the physical realm. Oddly enough I’ve never mentioned it in this thread though. Here’s the other thread where I brought it up if you’re interested:

Yeah, I’m thinking this is mostly thematic. Wax is always torn between freedom and responsibility. I think the discomfort with crowded Elendel society events is symbolic of his resistance to his duty/responsibility as a House Lord.

This WoB seems to suggest yes: There's also this one: As for this idea: It definitely seems like a strong possibility that the metal in Bleeder's spike involves corrupted Investiture. It's just hard to say which Shard's Investiture it is at this point.

Not sure I would go that far. But I ran across this line the other day and kinda did a double take too. (this is what Brandon does to us) Not sure if you’ve seen this WoB, but it suggests we may at least get a mention of Whimsy in Lost Metal: Overall, I’d say the evidence we have still points overwhelmingly toward Autonomy as the force behind Trell. Maybe even to the point where it seems too obvious, which has led people to theorize in other directions. That said, I wouldn’t be shocked if we found out that Wayne has been influenced by Whimsy in some way.

Welcome to the Shard, @ImSleepyEsse As to your question, for the most part it’s what @Invocation said. Though I will point out that the particular example you gave about Ishar comes directly from RoW chapter 111. Also, have you read any other cosmere series or standalones? Some of the things you’re seeing might come from other books, novellas, short stories, or even graphic novels in the case of White Sand.

Good call. RoW and Mistborn Secret History spoilers

I get that it seems unlikely to be a standard Scadrian human. And yet I also can’t ignore that smack in the middle of the dude’s name is the name of the original vessel of Ruin. So yeah, maybe someone with some koloss blood or someone magically altered in some way.,

I agree that I like it better if Godeke is genuinely who he says he is. Plus the deformity thing doesn’t really seem to line up with the ardent. Yeah, if nothing else, I definitely ended this research thinking there’s some more going on with Tukks and that he’s possibly a worldhopper. I had actually gone down the rabbit hole of cross-referencing what we know about Tukks with other characters as well. But it didn’t really lead anywhere productive. The only thing that really came of it was me side-eyeing Bashin (who calls everyone lad and refers to the Parshendi as shellheads like Tukks) as a likely worldhopper too.

I know that’s the general view and I agree. But Dalinar is in the Order of Talenelat and the ardent doesn’t seem to like it when Au-nak dismissively calls it an order for lesser people. That just seems like a reaction that a future Edgedancer might have.

So Tukks = Godeke? I like the thought, although Godeke does say he lived with his deformity all his life. I actually considered the possibility that all three are the same person. But I don’t think it works because Kal, who seems fairly familiar with Godeke, would recognize Tukks right?

Yeah, I know. Wasn’t sure where that fits in though given that we don’t get any description of said deformity.

As part of some research for another theory, I recently found myself looking for any clues that might shed some light on the identity of a still-unidentified worldhopper from WoK. I've included the relevant excerpts and WoBs below, followed by my two theories for where else we may have seen this character. The Short, Worldhopping, White-Robed Ardent In Chapter 54 Dalinar joins a conversation between Highprince Rine Hatham and four others: The lesser lighteyes are never named, and Dalinar later remembers that the Natan man is Au-nak. But it's the short, white-robed ardent that interests me because of a couple of things he says later in the conversation: Given the geology of Roshar, the ardent's reference to soil jumped out to a lot of people. So Brandon has been asked about the ardent a couple of times. There are two relevant WoBs. First, here's one from 2016: And here's the second, from 2017: So, a confirmed worldhopper, and it's not Nazh. (Bonus fun fact with a crackpot tie-in to MB Era 2: Hatham's colors are red and gold) Back to the scene at the feast. Just after the excerpt I included above, we learn that the ardent actually insulted Au-nak on purpose, on orders from Hatham: The highlighted bits above add to the intrigue. Note that the ardent doesn't say that Hatham wants Dalinar to know of the goodwill. The ardent says I wish you to know of our goodwill toward you. Then, in closing, he says we will speak with you again. Given that we know this ardent to be a worldhopper, this leaves me wondering who the we/our is referring to. The ardentia? Some secret organization of worldhoppers? Dysian Aimians? Or am I reading too much into this and he just means Hatham's people? The other thing I wondered is whether we've seen this character anywhere else. There's not a lot to go on. He's a short, white-robed ardent who's cool with being involved in lighteyed political scheming. The only other little tidbit I picked out is from the part of the conversation where they are discussing the Emul-Tukar conflict: So add into the mix that he's at least somewhat knowledgeable about Emul/Tukar and Sesemalex Dar. The Case for Godeke Based on what little we know, there's one character in RoW who seems like he could be a possible fit: Godeke the Edgedancer. Godeke is a former ardent who is described as being short and having some prior experience with diplomacy. In RoW 19, Dalinar decides he can't send Lift on the expedition to Lasting Integrity. He wants someone with diplomatic experience. Godeke volunteers: The scene where the ardent is helping Hatham with Au-nak could be read as diplomatic experience. Given the ardent's knowledge about the Emul/Tukar conflict, another little bit of evidence comes in Godeke's ability in RoW 30 to recognize that the men in Ishar's brute squad in Shadesmar are speaking Tukari: Although we know that the ardent in WoK was supposed to intentionally offend, Au-nak, I think it's fair to say that another small piece of evidence in favor of Godeke being that ardent is the particular comment of Au-nak's that seems to set him off. The ardent insults Au-nak right after Au-nak dismissively refers to the Order of Talenelat as a devotary "for the lesser people." Very Edgedancer-like to be concerned about the lesser people. The last bit of evidence is the reverence that Godeke seems to have for Dalinar - which I think can fit with the ardent's comment about wanting Dalinar to know of his goodwill toward him. Here's Godeke talking about Dalinar (and frankly sounding kinda cosmere-aware/worldhopper-y) in RoW 22: So that's the case for Godeke being the worldhopping ardent from WoK 54. The Case for Tukks The only other character that I considered was Kal's old sergeant Tukks. There are three pieces of evidence in favor of Tukks beings the ardent. One: he's short. I know, I know, lots of characters are described as short, but bear with me. Two: Tukks gets the worldhopper red-flag description of having features that are "off." From OB 91: The third, and most compelling, bit of evidence in favor of the ardent being Tukks is the fact that Tukks is the only other character in SA who ever uses the word soil as reference to the ground (as opposed to something being "soiled") that isn't a reference to the ground in Shinovar. From WoK 27: So that seems like a pretty solid connection. As for Tukks supposedly being dead, first: it didn't happen on-screen; and second: see the below WoB: So ... that raises my eyebrows for sure. Anyway, what do y'all think? Any other solid possibilities on where else we may have seen this ardent? Also, I realize I haven't even touched the question of which other planet the ardent might be from. If it's a planet we already know about, and we go by usage of the word "soil" as a reference to the ground, best bets are Sel and Scadrial. The word soil crops up with that usage in Elantris and MB Eras 1 and 2. "Soil" is mentioned in Warbreaker, but only by Vasher and Hoid, who we know have been on planets other than Nalthis. The word soil isn't used in the stories set on Threnody or First of the Sun. Not sure one way or the other about Taldain becuase I don't have the patience to scour the graphic novels.

Only since Dalinar arrived/swore his First Ideal/not clear exactly when but it's to do with a Bondsmith being back. RoW 40: I don't think the Sibling awakening upon being around a Bondsmith indicates that the Sibling was deadeyed. They were just too functional during RoW, and Brandon seems to be using Maya as the vehicle for showing how to heal deadeyes. I think the honorspren are likely correct that the Sibling ended their bond before the imprisonment of BAM and the Recreance. (It's still not entirely clear to me whether it was one or the other or both of these events that caused the appearance of deadeyes). That said, we don't know how that bond was ended. The description of being asleep is interesting because it reminds of what happened to Syl when Relador died. She also was described as having slumbered. Although, Syl's slumber seems to have been because she was too young for the bond. I don't imagine the Sibling had the same problem. The other problem with I suppose is that, as far as we know, Melishi was involved in capturing BAM. So if it was the capture that caused deadeyes, and Melishi was the one who performed the capture, he can't have died prior to the capture, and therefore his death couldn't be the cause of the Sibling's slumber. I suppose there's always the possibility that it wasn't Melishi's skills as a Bondsmith that were required for the capture. Rather, he might have been the bait - the thing that BAM would be drawn to (as with Re-Shephir, Nergaoul, and spren captured for fabrials generally), and that he was then killed or died just before the capture. Or maybe it wasn't even a matter of Melishi dying, but rather something happening to his mind that could have caused the slumber since that is what tethers spren to the Physical? That line about how people were supposed to think that the Sibling was dead seems to hint that the slumber was the result of some intentional plan between the Sibling and Melishi though right? Gah! Every time I try to piece together what happened with the False Desolation, the imprisonment of BAM, and the Recreance I just and up feeling like I'm theorizing in circles.

I had thought about this too, but it seems there’s no wind in the cognitive realm. From OB 97 Also, from OB 116: Note in this second one that Kal is feeling the wind anyway. I think this is because of the gloryspren heading toward Dalinar as he’s about to open the perpendicularity.

That’s correct. He’s referring to the spren from all orders other than the Skybreakers and the Bondsmiths. I don’t know that the Bondsmith spren have a collective name other than Bondsmith spren.

This is a great point and frankly something else that I agree comes up over and over again. The theme of characters choosing. Also a really good point and presumably why that particular nightmare had such an impact on Kal, who at that point is used to feeling beloved by the winds.

Ooh, good call! He does say that right after Dalinar opens the perp.

That’s probably right. I debated about even including them because they don’t seem to fit with the others.