Isilel

So, while trawling through WoBs I came across this most interesting tidbit: This "procedure" can't just mean Hemalurgy, right? That wouldn't be what I'd call "comparable" even with all the hedging about "certain limits". It does seem that there is more to it than burning a half-and-half atium-lerasium alloy, but it would certainly explain how the Sovereign had been able to make rare Ferrings required to produce heat medallions suddenly appear among the SoScads. And also, it is something that Hoid certainly would have done if he had the chance, in order to get connection to Ruin without spiking himself.

All the more reason to start as soon as possible. I'll point out that Renarin did fairly decently with very limited training during the fight with Re-Shepir. Wearing shardplate, yes, but then Shallan will get one eventually too. We have seen that Jasnah had also become competent with a shardblade and it served her quite well during the battle of Thaylenah. And Jasnah is not only significantly older than Shallan, but it has been demonstrated that clever use of Illumination could provide certain short-cuts for learning the correct stances, moves, etc. Running away may not always be possible, particularly if one didn't previously engage in physical exercise to build up speed, endurance, etc. See Shallan constantly flagging and slowing down the group during their march through Shadesmar, needing to use precious stormlight just to keep up, etc. This was the prime example as to why she does need to train up her physical skills a bit, so that she wouldn't immediately become useless and helpless without stormlight. Not to mention that a shardblade could be dangerous to bystanders if the wielder doesn't know what they are doing, so by every reasonable standard Shallan should learn to handle this awesomely powerful weapon that she has - unless she just willfully choses helplessness and decides to never use it. Frankly, given that one of the pro-Shalladin claims is that Kaladin makes Shallan (feel) stronger - i.e. "the girl who stood up", this argument against her ever learning how to use Patternblade seems completely counter-intuitive. Nobody says that she should become an elite fighter or that it will ever be anything but a weapon of last resort, but it is only sensible to become proficient with all the tools at your disposal, yes? Particularly given that during a Desolation one of the few existing Radiants repeatedly finding herself in extreme situations and at the end of her resources is only to be expected. Sure, you could argue that Adolin approached the matter clumsily, that he pressured Shallan and made the matters worse - but to argue that the idea that Shallan needs to learn to use her blade is in and of itself wrong? Sorry, makes no sense to me. And die from all the Attacks of Opportunity in the process . And if she has a chance to save people by fighting, by stalling the enemy for a few precious minutes until help arrives, when she doesn't have enough stormlight to save them via surge-binding, what then? She fully intended to stand and fight in Thaylenah when all seemed lost and nearly all the stormlight was gone, after all. Or, sure, I am counting on it. But then, tension leading up to her fessing up to her brothers and dealing with their reactions would have happened anyway, IMHO. Agree to disagree about sharing the Ghostblood info with Adolin - it doesn't matter through which of her personas Shallan intends to do it, it has been signposted that this is happening. And yea, she absolutely should fess up to the other Kholins too, particularly Jasnah. Of course, the same is true of Kaladin Re: Moash, his co-sonspirators and Kal's own role in the regicide plot. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

I can't be the only who thinks that Roshar's moons may be huge spaceships? I used to think that they were the means by which the Ashynites arrived, but trawling through the WoBs I saw that Sanderson appears to lean towards Oathgate-like mechanics for their exodus, although nothing is certain and canonized yet. However, there are numerous hints in SA that humans came to Roshar in several waves of migration from different worlds and by different means. I am really curious about all the Listener lore that we can expect to learn in Book 4 - will we find out that according to their legends there used to be a time when Roshar didn't have moons? Or had less than 3, perhaps?

Ouch, you are right, I missed this. There will still be a lot of juggling of metalminds involved, as you'd need 2 for every Feruchemic ability - one to store the ability itself, one to store the attribute; plus 1 for every allomantic ability. That's a lot of metal for the opponents to target! Then, all the work necessary to maintain the ability stores. The training to actually become proficient in the abilities. Etc. But yea, theoretically a Soulbearer can eventually gain sustainable access to all Feruchemical and Allomantic powers completely independantly from the medallions, only with personal metalminds. That is, if all all abilities can be made into the medallions first - given which ones we did and didn't see in BoM, it is possible that some powers are easier to mechanize than others and SoScads may not have discovered how to do it to all of them. But yea, I suddenly want a Soulbearer Ferring as a protagonist! But maybe they'll get locked into medallion production as soon as discovered, provided that NoScad will even get the technology by Era 3. If the Excissors are, as I suspect, made from unique materials, the medallions could very well remain a SoScad monopoly.

This thread was an excellent idea, @maxal! Let me add a heap of questions, largely about minor characters: What's the deal with Lin Davar's name? Dalinar thought that Renarin's name was nonsensical, but "Lin" literally means "Born into"?! Maternal relatives of all prominent and some bit characters. Did Navani have siblings or cousins? Did they have children? What family is she from? Ditto first Lady Davar. Ditto Gavilar and Dalinar's mother. Ditto Hesina. Ditto Laral's mother, etc. Toh - did he found a family in Herdaz? Do Adolin and Renarin have half-Herdazian cousins? Do they still have relatives in Rira? Navani - how did she meet Dalinar, why was there such an age gap between her children despite the need for a male heir, what oaths did she break? Gavilar - did he have mistresses? Illegitimate children? It has been implied that Gavilar exterminated a few branches of Kholins - did he also kill the women? And if not, what happened to them? Aesudan - what family and Princedom did she come from, does she have any relatives, why was she considered to be a fit spouse for the heir to the throne (Elhokar indicated that he had some choice in the matter in OB), did she spend some time at the Shattered Plains in order to become pregnant? Who ruled in her absence? Or did her husband visit Kholinar at some point during the Vengeance pact? Elhokar - did he have some supressed artistic inclinations as a child/youth? Did he love Aesudan, given that he didn't mind staying separated from her for years? Did he have mistresses during that time? How was his relationship with his father? His cousins? Ialai's background and familial connections. What branch of scholarship or art did she specialize in? Lirin - he is supposed to be from Hearthstone, why didn't he have any relatives there? Did he have (a) brother(s), who became soldier(s)? Or was it Wistiow, who used to be a soldier? How did they become friends? Is Highprince Vamah the same Loredar Vamah who took over Kalanor's princedom or his son? Given that he seems to be somewhat younger than Dalinar, who was only 24 when he killed Kalanor? Sebarial - how old is he? Did he inherit his position normally, unlike many of the other Highprinces? What family does he have? Is he a widower? How long has he been with Palona and do they have children? Highprince Hatham - what made a Ryshadium chose him? Did he inherit his shards? His position? How old is he? Does he have children? What was the scene with the Natan noble in WoK all about? Between his wife specializing in the history of the Dawncities and his ardent very likely being a worldhopper (he used "soil" in the sense of "ground" when a Rosharan would have used "stone"), does he have some privileged knowldege? Is there any cosmeric significance to his colors being red and gold? Ivis the swordmaster ardent from WoR - is she more than she seems? Why wasn't she present among the other swordmasters in OB when Dalinar visited the sparring hall?

Didn't Pattern himself say that it needed to happen, though? That it was "good"? He is not infallible, of course, but we shouldn't completely dismiss his opinions, I think. Do you want her to be defenseless without stormlight? Because the glut that she had at her disposal in Thaylenah was a one-of-a-kind event. Stormlight will be a very limited commodity at some points in the future and anything that could conserve it would help. Sure, for somebody like Shallan, a shardblade is a weapon of last resort, but given how terrible the Desolations are supposed to be, she will find herself needing to use it often enough. In fact, I was very surprised that Dalinar didn't put her in training under Zahel straightaway. We have seen that Jasnah learned to fight with her sharblade as well - and I'd really like to know where and how, and she is from a scholarly Order and a very skilled combat Soulcaster. This, at least she was intending to share with Adolin when OB closed - IMHO we can assume that it happened. Which was a good first step, but yes, honesty will take lots of work yet. Personally, I find Kaladin's comparisons between Shallan in Tien a bit problematic relationship-wise, not because Tien was his brother, but because Kal admits to himself that he was "living off Tien's light". Sure, it is Shallan's function as a Lightweaver to inspire people, give them hope, help them change for the better. She had been propping her relatives with her light since she became verbal again after her mother's death. But shouldn't her romantic partner be the one person whom she wouldn't need to prop? The one, who might, perhaps, prop her instead? I freely admit that I am in the "resolved" camp, though mostly from my subjective preferences concerning the narrative. I don't want our single young female main PoV character's character arc to be dominated and overwhelmingly shaped by her romantic relationships. And I don't want our view of the events and interaction with non-PoV characters to narrow down even further, as would happen if Shallan got together with Kaladin and had to deal with the same people whom we already see from his PoVs. I like Bridge Four well enough, but I am also very interested in Jasnah, the Highprinces and their wives, scholars, ardents, etc. with all of whom Shallan would have more reason to interact if she is with Adolin. Adolin's own PoVs are too few and likely to get fewer if he is not with Shallan, while Dalinar has moved on to foreign world leaders - whom I enjoy, make no mistake, but it does shift focus away from interesting Alethi.

Not really. Here is how I see this working: A Soulbearer Ferring uses a series of medallions containing F-Aluminium and another power and creates a number of unkeyed Nicrosil metalminds of those other powers. These he passes on to a Nicroburst. Nicroburst, using an F-Nicrosil medallion, compounds each of the powers by repeatedly burning and storing them in new metalminds, which are now keyed to her. Those are not medallions themselves* and therefore can be tapped and stored in while our Nicroburst continues to wear the F-Nicrosil medallion that allows for it. The only limitation to the system is the medallion itself, which is going to run out eventually and, as far as we know, requires Excissors to re-charge, whatever they are. It also occurs to me that a Nicroburst burning their/unkeyed F-Nicrosil storage should be still able to tap their other metalminds without a feruchemical medallion, while the burn lasts. Of course, if Nicrosil burns as quickly as Duralumin, this wouldn't be all that useful in practice. * Wax confirmed with Allik that storage metalminds included in the medallions are only for convenience and one could store in separate metalminds instead. Well, the above would be much easier for a Soulbearer, who could create the initial stock of metalminds (no need to make them unkeyed either), tap them naturally and just use an A-Nicrosil medallion for compounding. But as far as I know, the word still is that the protagonist of the third trilogy will be a Nicroburst, so... For those with only the one half, the requisite medallions for the other would be pretty limiting. For all we know, the process I envisioned could be very cost-prohibitive for anybody not personally rich, or not working for a government. Also, I imagine that TLR's enormous allomantic power significantly enhanced his compounding. His storing and tapping efficiency may have also been higher than that of later Ferrings. And yes, it would take a lot of work to grow and maintain the stores of abilities, leave alone to learn to use them skillfully. So, lots of potential limiters. And there is this - unlike with TLR, this would never be restricted to just one person, so it is more like any other technology or weapon. Even a non-Metalborn with an F-Nicrosil medallion and a store of unkeyed Nicrosil metalminds filled with abilities could use it, after all. Sure, a Nicrosil Twinborn would have an advantage, but it wouldn't be unsurmountably great.

But let's not forget that the things would need to come to some kind of stand-still for 15-20 years. Why would Odium stop after handing out a devastating defeat to his opponents? They are already in a pretty under-doggy position in the SA so far, how would they be able to eventually triumph if they get beaten down even further? Apart from ye olde "a small group of unlikely heroes sneaks into the Dark Lord's stronghold and destroy the McGuffin that maintains his life and power". I don't see how something like this could even be done in this case and, of course, this is a plot device that Sanderson has already used in his work - he managed to differentiate it enough to make it interesting, but going back to that well couldn't feel anything but repetitive, IMHO. Now, personally I would feel very disappointed if Rayse gets disposed off in the first 5 volumes. He was built up as the most dangerous Vessel of the most dangerous Shard, and I want to see it on-screen. Some newb taking over Odium just wouldn't provide a remotely comparable level of threat, unless they are a world-hopper already possessing requisite knowledge to be dangerous. But IIRC, Stormlight Archive isn't supposed to have too many cosmere cross-overs. Cosmere spoiler: @The Thinking Herald: While it is likely that concentration of shardic power is where Cosmere is going, wouldn't what you suggest feel a bit repetitive, considering Sanderson's previous work? It kinda reminds me of this romance novel conversation in OB: Having said that, I don't know that I have any particularly original ideas for the over-arching resolution of the first half of SA myself, heh. It is always easier to critisize, I guess . Um... I agree that the first 5-volume sequence will have an at least a mildly upbeat ending. That's just how these things work in publishing and also there needs to be a reason for the time-out before the second half. Otherwise, I can only come up with bits and pieces of ideas about what I think will happen: 1. I am pretty sure that Moash won't be Odium's champion. He is a far too obvious and boring choice, not to mention that he just isn't threatening or experienced enough to create that David against Goliath feeling. I posit Nale as the champion instead, complete with bad-chull dual-sharding and possibly a fully controlled bond to Yelig-Nar. With the outside chance of Ishar/Tezim taking the part instead. 2. Dalinar's champion may be Kaladin, as we all expect, or he may be Szeth. In the latter case, Nale/Ishar and possibly Yelig-Nar might be permanently eliminated via Nightblood. Which, in case of Nale and in view of his mentoring of Szeth, I feel that he may have been subconsciously working towards. 3. Dalinar's deal with Odium isn't worth much, though, because: Is painfully vague. Even if Odium truly operates "in the spirit" of agreements, this bargain leaves out Cultivation, the spren, the parsh and the Aimians, so it can't provide a true long-term solution, even if Dalinar's champion wins. Could it be that he loses, though? I mean, that might provide an interesting twist, since Odium no longer being bound to Rosharan system still won't result in automatic win for him. He'd still want to stay long enough to destroy Cultivation and splinters of her and Honor, maybe even to re-make Roshar as he told Dalinar, though I doubt that last, as it would require him willingly investing his power and binding himself again. OTOH, wouldn't Odium being freed _also_ free parts of Honor's and Cultivation's powers that keep him prisoner? Making it easier to re-form Honor. Yea, maybe that's what will happen in book 5, provided that Sanderson is willing to kill Kaladin, or if Szeth could somehow lose without allowing Odium's side to claim Nightblood, too. 4. Honor will get re-formed. IMHO, that would be a suitable triumph to end the first pentalogy on. Hopefully by Dalinar, but I strongly suspect that it might turn out that Kaladin is intended to become Honor instead, sigh. He does seem to have a special connection to the Stormfather and attracts gloryspren on occasion. Syl's possessiveness via them in OB could be a hint that she will lose him as a bond-partner. 5. I think that some of the apostate Heralds will redeem themselves and return to Braize, which will contribute to making the 15-20 years pause in hostilities possible. However, the Fused will now be able to eliminate them permanently, using Odium-daggers topped with appropriate gems, or maybe just switching gems on that one dagger. This will be Moash's role, IMHO, as we have seen that the Fused couldn't/wouldn't do it themselves. He'll go to Braize with them and execute the Heralds with the help of the Fused. The second 5-book sequence will begin once the last one dies and Moash will return as a force to be reckoned with. Taln, who won't recover by the time Book 5 ends yet and Ash will remain Roshar - she'd tend him and inform people of other Heralds deaths, so that they would be forewarned about the start of round 2. 6. Odium will lose at least 1 Unmade, but more likely more. Via Nightblood and/or via rebellion and Ghostbloods taking them off-wold and helping them to de-couple themselves from Odium's will somehow. That's all that comes to me at this time.

There is no question about it becoming OP, once the SoScad medallions come into the picture and you don't even have to bother with spikes. Just tap a medallion's power, store it in your personal metal-mind, burn to amplify, store again, repeat as necessary and it is yours forever unless you let it run dry or lose the storages. And as established in the first Mistborn trilogy you can wear as many of personal metal-minds as you wish, and tap more than one at a time, so with some careful preparation a Nicrosil Twinborn could become effectively a Fullborn when it counts. Even just a Nicroburst might be able do this if they first obtained a F-Nicrosil medallion and an intial stock of unkeyed Nicrosil metalminds, filled with other Metallic abilities. Hm... maybe that's Sanderson's character concept for the third Mistborn trilogy? If he still intends to make the protagonist a Nicrosil Misting, that is. I have been struggling to imagine how this power could be used in cool and interesting ways and how such a character would be able to keep up with their teammates in order to to provide boosts. But a gadgeteer concept could be very enjoyable. Power limits would need to be introduced, of course. Maybe use of the medallion won't allow one to store investiture as efficiently as a real Ferring could, and/or it might take a significant amount of time, so that even with sufficient preparation those other abilities could be only used in short bursts. Not to mention that all the metalminds would also provide targets for the Coinshots and Lurchers of the opposition, particularly if they get enhanced by their own Nicroburst...

Well, he might still have the remnants of his Breath stockpile and use 1 during the Weeping every other year when it continues for 4 weeks straight, without a highstorm in the middle. We know that larger spheres can keep their stormlight for 2 weeks, so any other times shouldn't be a problem for him. OTOH, the monasteries and such are also quite likely to be illuminated by big gemstones, that can keep their stormlight for the whole 4 weeks. Maybe it is one of the reasons why Vasher became an ardent in the first place - because it allowed him to have access to stormlight during the Weeping without becoming conspiciously rich, so that he could own such a large gemstone himself without exciting questions? The stormlight shortage in Urithiru after the highstorm schedule abruptly changed must have been a very unpleasant shock and may have been a close call - or cost him a precious Breath or 2. P.S. Having now seen this excellent WoB provided by @The One Who Connects in another thread: source it occurs to me that if Vasher stored his charged spheres in an Aluminium container, they would either keep their stormlight indefinitely or lose it at a much slower rate than normal, so that he'd have no problems with surviving without highstorms even for an extended period of time.

I will note here that Vasher seemed to have no problems with handling dead shardblades, so it probably has to be a Radiant, not just somebody heavily invested. Agree with everything else.

I don't believe that an _unkeyed_ nicrosilmind can be tapped by anybody. IMHO, more needs to be done to make them usuable for people who are not themselves Soulbearer Ferrings, possibly involving Connection. Medallions and the Bands are _unsealed_ metalminds, not just unkeyed ones. And the interesting detail here, the one that I haven't noticed before, is that an Aluminum metalmind is included. Does this mean that there is a filled storage of Kelsier's Identity in the Bands? Or the Feruchemists's? Why? And what would happen if somebody tapped it? So what are the Excisors for, then? Why can't they be replicated? Why wasn't the technology shared with the Northeners? Because you see, if it were possible to set up such a loop, then it could be used for creation of the new Bands ad infinitum. And you wouldn't even need any kind of Metalborn for that or to re-fill the Bands as long as no store is completely depleted, since the Bands let you burn all 16 metals and therefore _anybody_ could burn feruchemical storages for compounding. Marasi grabbed metal vials from the Set's guards in BoM and burned their metals to access Allomancy functions of the Bands. She then passed the vials to Wax ditto. The problem is that he also needed to somehow create Southern Ferrings and that we know that the Metalborn are needed to create and re-fill the medallions. As I have speculated in my previous post, it is likely that he didn't. That he left the Bands to his priests for emergencies, but they decided that they couldn't be trusted with such power and set-up the booby-trapped temple while also spreading the rumors about it, so that if Kelsier did return sometime in the future, he could find his McGuffin. Maybe Kel doesn't want them to deduce that he is still around and alive in bodily form? Doesn't want them to rely on him to save them, instead of working to save themselves. And then, there is an outside possibility that the Bands were indeed made by Rashek and Kel merely tracked them down. Now, I thought that VenDell was lying through his teeth when he told the protagonists that rumors of the BoM existed during the TFE. TLR didn't seem to be the sort of person that would create a powerful artefact that could be taken out of his control and used against him. Nor did he have any need for something like that himself. But then I trawled through the older messages on these forums and some WoBs after my complete Mistborn re-read a few weeks ago and stumbled across the info that TLR had kids and once upon a time wanted to give up the Final Empire and/or his rule of it, and that these 2 things were connected. And in this light, it is possible that he might have created something like that, as an emergency weapon for his successors. And as TLR was an expert in expunging things from history, if all of that happened several centuries before Catacendre, he could have successfully stamped out the very memory of these events by the era of Mistborn 1. It also seems pretty unlikely that the priests could have built the temple building, hauling the heavy building materials up onto a snowy mountain. Maybe it was there already, a relic of the World of Ash? They could have constructed the traps, etc.

This is an excellent question. Particularly since we have no idea how regarding much time the Sovereign was supposed to have spent in the South. Years? Decades? It almost has to be "introduces" for Feruchemy, because even in the North only one small group of people ever posessed it and it can only be inherited from them. This people, non-coincidentally, lived close to the shardpools/perpendicularities of both Ruin and Preservation for a very long time and couldn't produce any Allomancers via mist-snapping. So, IMHO it is as good as impossible for the Southerners to have had some unrecognized Ferrings among their population, short of Harmony changing them directly. As to allomancers, they would have had the same ratio of mist-snapped ones as the whole world had at the time of Alendi - i.e. there would have been some Mistings, but they would have been much rarer than in the North. He certainly could have revealed those, and I also suspect that he might have brought some left-over Inqusitor spikes and made some. Yes. This poses a few questions, namely: 1. How did the priests get to that place in the first place, given that flight was invented much later? In fact, I'd say that SoScads only had flight for a few decades. 2. How did they bring all the building materials up there? 3. Could it be that even knowing the principles and the process, creation of the medallions of different types isn't entirely straightforward? I.e. that maybe SoScads don't yet know how to make medallions for health and some other abilities? Yes and no. He could have announced their existence before he left, leaving open the option that he made them during his sojourn in the south. Agreed. Was it really the Sovereign's plan, though? Or that of his priests after he left? The thing is, a suicide pact involving dozens of people doesn't seem like something that Kelsier would do. That's not very Survivor-ish. He could be ruthless, yes, and sacrifice his followers, but it was always an "active" sacrifice, so to speak. In that his pawns were striving for something and had a chance of survival, however small. Could it be, instead, that Kelsier charged the priests with guarding the Bands before he world-hopped and _they_ were the ones who came up the idea? Maybe when they became afraid that they wouldn't be able to keep the Bands in trust for the absent Sovereign over the years, because some of their number attempted to claim them, so they came up with this solution instead? And was it really him or his priests, who spread the rumors, or could it be somebody else? Like agents of Harmony, who was becoming impatient with the slow progress of the NoScads and wanted to give them a push by engineering a meeting between the 2 civilizations? Or maybe Marsh acting on his own? It appears that way. Spook had no reason to keep this promising technology secret from his people. But then, maybe he got fed up with Kel at some point and they parted ways after achieving the latter's corporeality. Another possibility is that the Excisors were made using irreplacable resources, like lerasium, and SoScad needed this technology for their very survival, while NoScads obviously didn't, so a stark choice had to be made. OTOH, I'd have thought that Spook would have warned his people about SoScads existence even if he agreed with this decision... Or could he and Kel have feared that NoScads might have gone there while they were still stronger due to their numerous Metalborn and taken the Excisors away by force? I do not see how Kelsier as a mere Mistborn could have re-filled the portion of the Bands that allows tapping and storing in them in the first place. It is mentioned in BoM that Marasi or maybe Wax felt this part of them depleting. So, do you think that they were turned back into very old humans during the Catacendre and that they lived long enough to help newly corporeal Kelsier make the Bands? Personally, I have a crackpot idea that Kelsier or maybe Spook or Marsh acting on his behest found Ati's body and somehow used it to give Kelsier and maybe others Feruchemy, as it would have been drenched in Ruin#s investiture. An excellent question, particularly since from the informant at the party we know that he made more than one - as such "coins" were relatively common in the region and a few New Seran nobles used to collect them. But didn't take it, for some reason. Ditto depleted heat medallions that he thought that the dead priests had on them. Too bad. The Set will get all that now, I suppose.

Could it be connected to Sanderson's ideas for the folded Mistborn video game, perhaps? Something from the past of the Final Empire? If so, it would be great, IMHO. FE was such an interesting setting and we have barely seen it before it was destroyed. Not to mention that all the intriguing WoBs about pretty much beg for a piece of fiction about these events. I am not enamored with "White Sand" graphic novel, but then I have some serious problems with the prose version too. Also, Sanderson and Co. have presumably gained some experience by doing it, so the future similar endeaviors can only be better. I won't lie that I wouldn't have preferred a novella, but something new in Cosmere universe is always better than nothing .

Thanks! Though "slightly less powerful" may allude to the lack of Mistborn, rather than strength of individual Mistings, maybe? In TFE Marsh said that he had 11, though: "Eleven?" Vin asked with shock Marsh nodded. "Two in the head, eight in the chest, one in the back to seal them together" Maybe Inquisitors who had 9 were made from Mistborn? Because starting with a Seeker, 9 is kinda low to make a killing machine that an Inquisitor is supposed to be, even against normal Mistborn. IIRC, they are supposed to be particularly strong in Steel and Iron - so double spikes there are are a must, I figure. Not to mention that I am not even sure if their vision could work if both the eye-spikes don't have the same ability. I somehow think that it should be harder to use in such a case. But once we get the basic abilities out of the way: 2 Steel, 2 Iron, 1 Bronze and 1 Pewter, 3 additional spikes are just too few to diversify and yet have the abilities be sufficiently strong, because of hemalurgic decay. For one thing, to be able to lead the Koloss they'd need either double of Soothing or Rioting, or one of either and 1 Duralumin and IIRC very few of them have that last. And only 1 Pewter would actually make them frailer than a natural Mistborn/Thug, rather than tougher like they ought to be, unless they had a way to find particularly strong Mistings to spike, so they'd need either a second Pewter or F-Gold. No room for Atium or Tin ... I dunno. Yes, but iRL nobody masters such skills within days. Yet, the showdown happened very soon after Marsh was made Inquisitor: "I was going to send word of my survival, but they watched me fairly closely that first day. I didn't expect Kell to make his move so quickly." BTW, an idle thought - the Inquisitors shouldn't be able to see their reflections in mirrors and the like, right? I mean, Steelsight shouldn't allow for it. Well, I'd say that there was an unavoidable physiological reaction in that case, that couldn't be circumvented by quick thinking. TLR had a magical tool to massively enhance his quick thinking and a few moments when he could act - and did so, stupidly, but yea. He was massively complacent, unprepared, surprised and just didn't do the right things in time. TLR also was monstrously powerful as an Allomancer, so if Vin could Push on his other metalminds even before taking in the mists, he probably could have Pulled on atium bands, if he flared Iron. But well, he didn't and then it was too late.

Not really. Venli was obssessed with power and thought that their ancestors were foolish to turn their backs on the Unmade and sacrifice so much of their stature. She also liked discovering new things yes, and she wanted to return the Listeners to glory, but a lot of it was always tied into her own ambitions. She was a typical "mad scientists" in other words. Assuming the voidform didn't really change her character - as Eshonai herself noted and as we have seen through Venli's own PoVs. It made her more callous and ruthless than she was naturally, but not by much. In fact, if she had gotten all that she had hoped for from her betrayal of her people as far as her own aspirations were concerned, I am not even sure that she would have been tempted to turn. Odium and the Fused made a big mistake by treating her shabbily and giving her reasons for resentment - which also led to regret and eventually a sense of guilt. Eshonai was very different - she did perhaps inadverently cause this mess by "discovering" humans and later informing the Elders of Gavilar's intentions and voting in favor of his assassination, but none of it happened for self-serving reasons. And afterwards, she did everything she could to protect the Listeners, while remaining true to their ideals. It is her very sense of responsibility and self-sacrifice that led to the tragedy, as she was tricked into bonding a void-spren and mind-controlled in betraying the very people whom she had tried to hard to save. All she really wanted was to be free to explore and see something new and wonderous. As such, I see her struggle against mind-control as a desperate cat-and-mouse game rather than Venli's desenchantment and rebellion plot. Nightblood was supposed to come into the story anyway - Szeth wasn't required for it. I do wonder who was supposed to wield it before Sanderson decided to keep Szeth. Maybe Nale's arc was supposed to be somewhat different and hit similar points - and if so, I would have very much preferred that to Szeth's revival. huh, I never considered Fleet's story in that way. Very interesting. Makes me wonder yet again if Soulcaster Kaza became a smokespren. I thought it likely anyway, but with Hoid's possible oblique hint here it seems even more likely. Yes, but then, Szeth was supposed to be that "someone" or one of them, until some point into writing of WoR. The third book was supposed to be his flashback book originally, after all. This was ex-post facto justification. If Sanderson chose to keep Eshonai, then the Fused would have thought that she was completely mind-controlled and as a charismatic public speaker ideal for indoctrinating the new singers.

So, Felt in OB flashback: "Felt stood outside, a lithe man with long, drooping mustaches and pale skin. Had to have some Shin blood in him, judging by those eyes." "The short man barely came up to the middle of Dalinar's chest" So, short, pale, Shin eyes - doesn't he stand out enough? What else would distinguish a Scadrian on Roshar? In WoR he is, by implication: "...a thin man in scout's uniform" - who informs Shallan about the existence of the round plateau, where the Oathgate is subsequently found. Nothing particularly distinguishing about him there either, except that his report is very timely and that he volubly criticizes changes in battle strategy. So, if it is not his appearance, maybe it is that his speech patterns don't stand out like they should? And in the flashback he has a wife named Malli. Hm... if there is a kandra there, I bet that it is her. In fact, maybe all Mistborn spoilers: Otherwise, I strongly suspect that odd ardent of Hatham's back from WoK of being a world-hopping kandra. The one who used the expression "on our soil" and hinted at belonging to some mysterious group wishing to gain Dalinar's goodwill for the future.

So, I really hope that you are wrong, because it would be massively disappointing, IMHO. The hoary formula of post-Tolkien fantasy, where the Big Bad is defeated within 1-2 years of making his big push after the millenia of preparation has been massively overused and "oh, look, here is somebody bigger and badder around the corner" was already done by Sanderson, so the same thing happening again would be repetitive. Not to mention that Odium has several advantages as a villain antagonist that Cultivation doesn't - at least not unless she is willing to destroy Roshar. Namely, Odium is much more lightly invested in Rosharan system than resident Shards normally are, so he is far more mobile and dynamic as a global threat, as he can pack and move very quickly after being released, without losing any of his power, particularly since he doesn't care if he leaves devastation behind. By contrast, Cultivation is very much tied to Roshar, and unless she is willing to rip her power out and destroy it or spend a long time carefully removing and re-absorbing it, she can only be a fairly local threat. Needless to say, I don't see Roshar being destroyed at the end of Stormlight Archives, so this is off the table. And while Cultivation might indeed be an antagonist in the future space trilogy, that's way off. And of course, the nature of Odium's power and his experience make him very dangerous as well, so much so that his eventual defeat should come at a very high cost to feel believable and earned. OTOH, I just don't see the proper amount of destruction and extinction happening at the end of Book 5 of SA. By the end of the series, yes. Although, I personally also think that Odium will escape Rosharan system severely, even perhaps mortally, wounded and that his power will be picked up by another Shard, which will form a future Big Bad. Either Autonomy or one of the 6 as yet unnamed. Could also be Cultivation too, but that would turn future Rosharans into villain's henchmen and Stormlight Archive ultimately into a tragedy and I don't see Sanderson going for it.

But as far as we have seen, mind-sensing predators live exclusively around and on the Pantheon isles where only trappers visit, so the demand for Aviar back on the home archipelago must be fueled by the varieties that bestow other abilities. Though, now that I think about it, I wonder how those other Aviar types are even able to survive in their deadly home environment without the mind-protection.

Well, given that Marsh could see with steel-sight pretty much immediately after his creation as an Inquisitor, it stands to reason that it can't be a savant ability. IIRC, it was only weeks at most between his initiation and the final showdown of TFE - not enough time to become a savant even if he kept his steel/iron flared all the time. Unless having the eye-spikes rammed through one's brain confers savantism automatically? I can't help but think that these spikes must have some additional effects that those placed elsewhere don't. Because why would Kelsier go for such noticeable bind-point to regain his corporeality rather than something less conscpicious otherwise? From what I understand about the Inquisitors made from Seekers during TLR's reign, all of them had a basic set of spikes: 2 for Steel, 2 for Iron, 1 for Bronze, 1 for Pewter and then 4-5 spikes that varied from individual to individual for specialization. Yea, I know all the in-books reasoning, Annotations and WoBs, but the effect of Vin's earring on her Bronze pulses is still not consistent with what is demonstrated in HoA concerning normal hemalurgic charge decay. There is that chapter where Ruin-controlled Marsh makes a spike out of a Coppercloud noble in order to spike Penrod. And according to his ruminations, not only should the size of the spike matter - in that smaller ones don't hold as much, and Vin's would be small indeed, but also that the charge quickly decays outside a body. And we know that Vin didn't always wear her earring during her street career - in fact, when Kelsier recruited her, she hadn't worn it for months. So, really, it shouldn't enhance her abilities by much, hemalurgy or no. IMHO, either Ruin put his thumb on the scale re: strength and persistence of it's charge, or Vin being Preservation's chosen specifically strengthened her Bronze compared to her other metals, so that even a little extra made her capable of punching copperclouds, or combination of both. Which is why it can't serve as a standard for Vin versus Elend strength comparison . YMMV. Of course, from what we know about Era 2, it looks like there wasn't much risk of that anyway, unless one of the Feruchemists got their hands on a bead of lerasium. But a team of Twinborns working in concert and making a good use of their abilities may have been somewhat of a threat to him, perhaps? Not to mention that if the origin of his abilities could be understood and explained as a combination of talents that other people had, he'd look a lot less divine. I also wonder how the WoBs about TLR having children fit into all of this: Yea, Ruin must have been seriously messing with his mind. I still don't entirely understand why Rashek didn't use Iron Pull and/or immediately tap physical/mental speed Feruchemy after Vin pushed the atium armbands off him, instead of just grabbing for and running after them without any enhancement. His other jewelry should have consisted of metalminds for attributes other than age, yes? And BTW, I think that there is a WoB that weakening of Allomantic abilities stopped after the Catacendre, so Wax wouldn't necessarily be weaker than a run-of-the-mill Vin-era coinshot.

"....when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - there must be a way to _become_ a Feruchemist or a Ferring even if you aren't born to it and don't use hemalurgy. It is the only explanation for how the Sovereign could have been a Fullborn and for how he managed to provide SoScads with the Ferrings needed to produce the heat medallions, when there had never been any Ferrings among them before. Mist-snapping must have happened there also, but it only produced Mistings. Inquisitors wouldn't have had the necessary spikes, except for the very small chance of a couple of them having F-Brass, just in case. There were no living Feruchemists among the NoScads after the Catacendre, and IIRC none were born since then, only Ferrings. So, even if Kelsier got his Feruchemy by some truly funky method, like getting hold of Ati's body and stapling his cognitive shadow to it, and maybe achieving the proper amount and balance of Ruin and Preservation investitures that way, he still needed to somehow change a number of SoScads into Ferrings. Yes, he might have sired tons of kids, but according to VenDell in BoM Nicrosil Feruchemy is particularly rare even among the northeners, so it is highly unlikely that he could have had enough of Soulbearer kids quickly enough to establish the heat medallion production line, leave alone all the other Ferrings that might be required for the process. Not to mention that the kids probably need to be 10 or so before they can can be relied upon to do their part consistently and without injuring themselves due to overstoring, etc. Well, Kelsier's tenure as Preservation probably gave him the knowledge of Nicrosil and all the other Allomantic/Feruchemical metals and their uses. But it is a good question where his initial supply of Nicrosil could have come from, as NoScads had their own problems and had no reason to prioritize the development of necessary technologies, mining, etc. SoScads also didn't seem sufficiently advanced to have it - if they had been they would have devised non-Feruchemic methods of coping with their sudden Ice Age and wouldn't have needed to be saved by a meddling sliver. So - did Harmony initially provide enough Nicrosil to get everything started and keep SoScads going until they learned to produce it on their own? Or what?

True, but since there are WoBs that TLR was aware of the wider cosmere and also of interstellar trade happening through the Pits of Hatshin, I have wondered if he couldn't have imported nicrosil from elsewhere for his own use. The Darkside of Taldain might have had the industrial base to produce it, for instance, and we know that it was still possible to travel there and back early in TLR's reign, as that's about when Khriss and Baon would have left their world. Another interesting question is - where did _the Sovereign_ get nicrosil in sufficient quantities to supply SoScads with the heat medallions? From what we have seen from his copper-mind, their weren't industrially developed when he got there - if they had been, they might have found a solution to the Ice Death without him and likely also without the Metallic Arts.

This is far from clear from these WoBs. Which 16 metals are meant, for instance? The real basic ones, which would exclude atium, or the fudged ones? And it only makes sense to create Mistings with lerasium alloys if you need a fraction of a lerasium bead to achieve this. The fact that a lot still isn't known about atium is mentioned, too. What a 50 : 50 atium-lerasium alloy would do if burned is still very much up in the air. Also, Sanderson refused to confirm that Hoid is a Mistborn, only that he is an Allomancer. Which suggests to me that he used most of the bead for some other purpose, though he still needed to be able burn 3 Allomantic metals to escape the cache and there is strong evidence that he also used emotional Allomancy on Davars in WoR. If it is true that Hoid is trying to build connections to all the Shards, by obtaining their magics, then he needs to be at least a Ferring to connect to Ruin. There is no other way save hemalurgy, and medallions won't cut it, anymore than a fabrial would have provided him with sufficient connection to Honor and Cultivation. And from what we have learned in BoM about the Sovereign apparently being a Fullborn and his somehow bestowing Feruchemy on Southern Scadrians requires for there to be a way to obtain Feruchemy other than by birth or hemalurgy. Because where would he have gotten F-Nicrosil spikes? No Inquisitor could have had one. So, there must exist some other method, albeit one that is severely limited, because Ferrings in the South are rare and no full Feruchemists other than the Sovereign himself ever lived there. This would fit the atium-lerasium alloy requirement. IIRC, there is a WoB that 16 beads of lerasium may have originally existed, so 5-6 of them could have been left around somewhere after Hoid and Elend took theirs. IMHO, Kelsier tracked down a couple of them and made himself into a Fullborn, as well as changed a few select SoScads into Ferrings of the metals necessary to produce the heat medallions. He may have also bestowed Inquisitor spikes on some others, to increase Metalborn numbers in the south in general, but it is doubtful that any of them would have had F-Brass - F-Nicrosil et al. would have been impossible. P.S. Unkeyed metalminds can only be used by another Feruchemist/Ferring of that metal, as seen in BoM. So this WoB actually supports that Hoid is one.

I too very much regret Eshonai's death - I loved her character. I like Venli too, but IMHO what could have been done with Eshonai would have been more distinct from Dalinar's arc and more interesting. So, I completely disagree that scenes that happen with Venli in OB would have been better with Eshonai, because I see her potential plot and struggle as being significantly different from her sister's. But then, I am really fascinated by the idea of mind-control and how somebody so completely subjugated could find a way to fight back without being noticed, a tense cat-and-mouse game that would result from this, etc. Sanderson dipped his toes into this idea in his other work, but in a very abbreviated fashion and this could have been his chance to do more with it. In fact, in WoR Eshonai already started to do so subconsciously, with leaving her own division out of initial transformations, then assigning them to guard the refusniks, then coming up with a perfectly acceptable excuse not to pursue the lot of them when they escaped, etc. Nor do I see any huge Shallan-related mistakes in WoR and while I am completely with you that Jasnah's fake-out was a major lapse*, I couldn't disagree more with this: IMHO, it was Szeth's contrived and awkward ressurection that completely cheapened death and necessitated Eshonai's demise. With either ending, it is ridiculous - shardblade burning away his brain being fixable - which, I understand, remains canon, or him being turned into mince-meat by the highstorm and shattered against the ground after a fall of many hundreds feet without even holding any stormlight ditto. Szeth's ressurection was a late-ish change to the narrative, per http://faq.brandonsanderson.com/node/467: and it continues to cause noticeable plot and characterization issues in my view. Also, we now have 3 out of 10 founding Radiants being mass-murderers, 2 of them former would-be tyrants - warlord versus mad scientist to distinguish between them, I guess. I loved Dalinar's arc, but that's too much and actually cheapens the theme of redemption, IMHO. Gawx was OK - he wasn't dead before Lift healed him, it didn't seem out of place at all to me. Having said that, I never understood the whole Timbre - Eshonai theory, because it was obvious to me since WoR that Timbre was a Radiant spren and that foretelling from one of the Listener songs about them becoming surge-binders at long last was in the process of being fulfilled. * I still don't understand why Jasnah didn't just soulcast her attackers into stuff or killed them with Ivoryblade instead of playing dead after they got the drop on her. She had more than enough stormlight to heal in her clothing and much more in easy reach. I understand that Sanderson wanted to get her out of the picture, but this train of events wasn't very plausible.

I think that Sanderson backed off from confirming this because he wanted to keep the means of becoming a Feruchemist when one is not born to it secret for a while longer, due to Kelsier's posthumous actions in Southern Scadrial. His mystery needed to be maintained for a satisfying reveal and obfuscation of the possibility and method of him becoming a Fullborn was part and parcel of it. It makes sense that Hoid always had access to Fortune through some other system, as he knew to appear in places and times where he was needed prior to WoA. However, if he is indeed gathering connections to all the Shards though obtaining their magics as seems likely, then proper Scadrian-style Feruchemy would have been his only option to connect to Ruin bar a hemalurgic spike - something that we know that he is unwilling to contemplate. Also, an extra way of accessing Connection could only help with his so far unsuccessful attempts to acquire trickier magics, such as those of Sel. So, IMHO burning a 50 : 50 alloy of atium and lerasium turns one into a Feruchemist - and that's exactly what Hoid did with his lerasium bead, with a little extra left over to grant him a few Misting powers as well. He needed Iron, Steel and Duralumin to get out of the cache and he seems to have used emotional Allomancy on Shallan's father in WoR.