Isilel

Yes. I was very much surprised when it happened, because there is so much to do concerning the Sibling and relationship with spren, as well as a pressing need to figure out how to counter-act the Everstorm, to find out how Desolations actually fit in with Odium's goals, what means he intends to use to free himself, now that Dalinar gambit has failed and how he can be defeated. All of this very much belongs into traditional Elsecaller purview. It was clear that Jasnah couldn't have become a worldhopper before the whole series ends, as her book is projected to be either N°8 or N°10, but I really hope that she does become one afterwards. She can potentially visit shardless worlds, without perpendicularities of their own which neither Khriss, nor maybe even Hoid can. Oh, I am sure that she will. Not only is situation extraordinarily difficult and Jasnah is going to be stretched thin between her duties as a queen and as a scholar, as well as so far the only Elsecaller Radiant, but certain traits of her personality are going to impede her too. There is a trick that she needs to figure out or have Hoid share with her, but it is possible per WoB. In fact, I am fairly sure that at least one of Jasnah, Shallan or Lift will become a worldhopper after all is said and done. The first 2 would have to figure out what to do for investiture supply... or just team up with Lift and have her infuse gems for them as needed.

But we already know that heat medallions have warmth storage that is accessible to any wearer - i.e. that it is the medallion's Identity that is important. It is the medallion that has the mechanism to fill the storage, not the wearer, who lacks the necessary sDNA. And if the medallions do indeed use connection, as we both think, then it is connection to the maker. i.e. they basically spoof the maker's Identity to function. Your idea about how F-Duralumin might work for the medallion-making is interesting and plausible . OK, I see where you are going, but I think that _if_ burning of spikes is involved in medallion production (and I am not convinced that it is), it is only for the purpose of establishing the aforementioned Connection and somehow making it automatic, like the use of hemalurgically bestowed abilities is for a spike recipient. I can't imagine the rampant spike-burning, that you envision, being either necessary for the medallion-production or feasible in the south, where the Metalborn are so few. And didn't Sanderson say that burning of spikes is exceedingly painful? I also don't see why better results can't be obtained by supplying the medallion-makers with respective unkeyed filled storages. IMHO, every medallion-maker has their suit of permanent spikes + their natural ability(/ies) and they have compounders working for them ditto. These compounders are spiked to have F-Aluminium and a matched A/F ability for a given metal. I do think that the southerners practice culturally-embedded "voluntary" spiking of the aged and the dying (where a refusal would likely ruin their family) as envisioned in Spook's book and that the Metalborn carefully control and manage transfer of spikes between generations.

OK, I am with you that Connection is involved in how the medallions function in some way, though it does seem odd that they don't have a Duralumin component, only Nicrosil. And that's why I think that if one fills a metalmind while wearing a medallion, the storage created would be tappable by anybody wearing the same medallion. However, if say, a Lurcher produced an iron weight metalmind through wearing a medallion and then removed the medallion, he would be unable to compound weight via burning that metallmind. If that's the case, then it would be impossible to make a full set of nicrosil metalminds filled with all abilities through medallion juggling, leave alone recharge or create new medallions by using other medallions. This would agree with Alik's statement that the Metalborn are needed for the medallion production and would also prevent Nicrosil Feruchemy from being overpowered. Hemalurgic spikes pretty quickly lose charge when they are not stuck inside a living body or submerged in fresh blood, which the medallions aren't. I really hope that hemalurgy eventually becomes something along the lines of a bone marrow donation - i.e. something that could be done without too much damage for oneself once or twice in a lifetime, with Gold medallion (which doesn't seem to exist yet?) healing, but all the WoBs about how it is awful and how Harmony hates it aren't helping. And now that I think about it, maybe that's the reason why the medallions so far only have 2, or very rarely, 3 abilities? Maybe the southerners are also limited to 3 spikes and 2 abilities are necessary to make a functioning medallion framework, while the other 2 are active abilities accessible to the users (warmth/weight, etc). Then people who make medallions have one inborn Metal ability + 3 spikes and the rare 3-ability medallions were made by a natural Twinborn + 3 spikes. Given the overall scarcity of Metalborn in the South, the Twinborn would be vanishingly rare - maybe there only ever was the one.

It does seem to happen automatically, but the F-Iron ability is still stored in Nicrosil and needs to be activated somehow. Otherwise why is it part of the medallion at all? Spikes don't work that way either. They need to be placed in very specific locations on the body and also need contact with blood. But now that you mention it, the mechanism is indeed very odd and somewhat unprecedented. But multiple spikes don't interfere with each other, so why should mulptiple medallions? Not to mention that use of hemalurgic spikes would put a huge crimp into medallion production and feasibility of "mechanical" access to Allomancy and Feruchemy being used at industrial scale, as Sanderson said it is going to be. Why wouldn't the portion of the Bands that grants Nicrosil Feruchemy in the first place, drain? As far as we know, Nicrosil Feruchemy works like any other - you store an attribute, later you withrdaw it, and at some point the storage is emptied out and needs to be re-charged. I'd also like to point out the seemingly curious fact that the Bands have an aluminium storage. That makes me think that maybe the Bands worked in a fundamentally different way from the medallions in that they somehow used Kelsier's identity - stored in aluminium, to give the users access. But the "problem" is Harmony taking control, not that more than 3 spikes don't work. It is a completely different kind of problem! Not to mention that it doesn't explain why one can't use several medallions at once, like one can use several spikes. It is not like the southerners fear any kind of intereference - multiple medallions just don't work. This makes no sense to me, because _all_ medallions grant nicrosil Feruchemy, even though it seems like it gets tapped automatically, somehow. So, what's the difference between the regular medallions and the Bands, that the former can only have 3 powers max, and even that very rarely? What you propose for the Bands would make more sense if they were made of Lerasium, which anybody can tap and store in without the need for Feruchemical abilities of their own. But Nicrosil Ferrings exist for a reason, methinks. Personally, I agree that Connection is somehow in play, but I suspect that each medallion also has it's own Identity that gets temporarily "stapled" to the wearer. And if one tries to wear 2 medallions, then their Identities conflict. In which case, building up a store of personal metal-minds of all abilities via medallion juggling alone may not be feasible, because each storage would be keyed to the respective medallion's identity, rather than that of the wearer. There is also the fact that we have only _seen_ the medallions bestowing Feruchemical abilities - heat storage, weight storage, connection. We have assumed that they must at least have Allomantic Steel medallions to start the airship engines, but one wasn't shown on-page. Maybe making those is more difficult. Why, oh, why did Sanderson choose to write sequels to "Skyward" instead of "The Last Metal", as he originally intended?! I can't wait for an official explanation!

Alik said that all the other medallions were invented after the Sovereign had left. And judging by the lack of certain types of potentially very useful medallions among those the explorer crew possessed, they may not have learned how to store some of the Metal abilities in them still - like health. Which further suggests that there are tricks to each individual type of medallion, rather than "one size fits all" approach that you propose. First of all, from the evidence before us I strongly suspect that some abilities are more easily stored than others. And then, there is such thing as storage efficiency. It is very likely that the medallions don't provide the "end-neutral" balance of natural Feruchemy, but lose a significant amount of attribute/ability being stored. Which is not a problem for, say, weight medallions, because their primary function is to make people lighter and it doesn't matter if only a percentage of weight being stored actually makes it into a metalmind. But it would be for others. IIRC, the Set, who had some time to examine the medallions, didn't think that they could so easily recharge them, even the heat ones. Of course Nicrosil is being tapped in the weight medallions (and all others) - how else are people gaining the F-Iron to store their weight? F-Iron is stored in Nicrosil, as well as F-Nicrosil that allows the tapping of it. The real question is how the users get access to F-Nicrosil. Oh, and it is the re-filling of F-Nicrosil storage that is likely the limiting factor that requires the actual Metalborn and excissors. There is no way that the Inquisitors had Nicrosil spikes, however, since TLR didn't reveal Nicrosil to anybody and likely didn't even use it himself, though he would have known about it. There is also no way that Kelsier would have tracked down and murdered dozens of Feruchemist children under 10, born after the Catacendre, to get enough F-Nicrosil and F-Brass spikes to start the heat medallion production in the South. That is, if Feruchemy even manifests that early. And there is no way that the southeners could have maintained and expanded their medallion industry if they only had those spikes, getting weaker with every transfer to the next generation. No, they somehow acquired natural Ferrings in time to start the heat medallion assembly line, after the Sovereign produced the initial stash and taught them how to do it. Alik also told us that Ferrings had been completely unknown in the South previously, and, of course Preservation's snapping Mists couldn't have created them. There is also the question of where Kelsier got his initial supply of Nicrosil for all of this - maybe Harmony himself provided it? And if so, maybe he also made those southern Ferrings? Or helped Kelsier make them. OTOH, I expect that the southerners do use Hemalurgy in the way outlined in Spook's little book, since they have so few Metalborn and are so dependent on their continuing contributions. Their reverence towards their Metalborn again suggests that they remain crucial for the medallion industry and that the process of using the closed Nicrosil cycle via medallions alone like you suggest isn't feasible yet.

Well, but we know that only heat medallions were produced while he lived in the South - all the others were invented later. Also there is the problem where all the southern Ferrings suddenly came from. Sure, the Mists after the Well was filled would have produced some Allomancers for them, but the Terris had been the only people who developed Feruchemy "naturally". I.e. Kelsier already needed the means to create Nicrosil and Brass Ferrings among the southeners in sufficient numbers to ensure that everybody could have life-saving heating medallions. So, he probably made himself a Fullborn, as long as he was somehow making Ferrings anyway. I also don't necessarily agree that nicrosil is all that overpowered - in fact, even the Bands themselves allowed Our Heroes, what? To defeat maybe 50 or so people and pull down one airship? And that already exhausted a lot of storages. That's hardly the ultimate power that they were touted to be. And who knows how much effort it will take to re-fill them, if it is even possible without excissors and a full Feruchemist. Anyway, I hope that limits to nicrosil use are soft ones - i.e. that certain abilities are more easily stored than others and that medallions for some are more difficult to make, and also because the strength of both A-Nicrosil and F-Nicrosil available determines how much time is required to compound and store them. What it is more, it should be difficult to learn to apply some of the stored abilities skillfully without the instinctive understanding of a natural user - that, and the necessity to juggle all the storages should preclude people from going Fullborn through artificial means even for a short amount of time that the Bands provided. I'd really love for a "gadgeteer" using a careful mix of Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities to be possible. It is a bit frustrating that so far in Mistborn series the really cool stuff was limited to people who won genetic lotteries to become Mistborn/Feruchemists/Twinborn. It would be nice if hard work and clever use of equipment could compensate at least somewhat. But that's what _all_ the medallions are! And still, there is a barrier of 3 abilities per medallion max. I don't see how "dark" options could even be available to him. Sazed was the last living Feruchemist. Or maybe because both Shardpools were located in their territory and relatively close together? People living near them were likely permeated by heightened investiture over generations. Yea, there should be an uptick in Feruchemical abilities among population, really, with Harmony's mixed Mists and no part of both shards being locked away. I understand and welcome that Sanderson wants to promote mechanical access to Metallic arts, but it makes no sense that Ferring abilities aren't more widespread.

But the device didn't affect flesh-and-blood entitities like the Ire and their guards? It also didn't affect Kelsier, of course, but one can, IMHO, assume that it was targeted at specific kind of investiture. And well, of course Shades would be a worry if they appear somewhere unexpected. They are a constant worry even on their home turf, where people know how to avoid angering them.

Yea, and I was so sure that Kelsier either created or was part of the Ghostbloods, given that his stated goals at the end of SH align so well with theirs. And also because both Marsh and Harmony hinted in the Second Era series that they hadn't talked to him for a long time. And given that our beloved local deity has an in-built line to Kelsier through his spike, there isn't much that can account for this breakdown in communications now that we know that Kelsier didn't leave Scadrial. The only explanation I can come up with is that he put himself into a massive cadmium time-bubble for some reason and is going to do the "once and future king", or possibly "Merlin" when he reappears. Maybe he is afraid of becoming as jaded and devoid of empathy as TLR, if he lives through all the centuries? Also, it seems that worldhopping is something that Kelsier could eventually figure out, so it is doubly surprising that he didn't yet, given his maverick and relentless personality. But then, if he chose to skip a century or 2, this would explain it. Yet, apparently, the Shades manage to escape into inter-world Cognitive frequently enough that defense against them is an on-going concern for the Ire. As to the Spren, there are many WoBs that they can be taken off-world, but there is a trick to it that has to be figured out first. And now with Hoid having been confirmed by WoB as a bona fide Radiant Lightweaver, rather than just a caretaker for an orphaned Cryptic and what is more, that he wanted and schemed to bond a Cryptic for some time in order to get connection to Rosharan magic, we have a character who has both motivation and means to learn how to do it ASAP. Unless he already knows, that is. Oh, and he just might share this knowledge with select others. And then, there is this WoB, of course, that suggests that taking spren to another world has happened in the past:

If so, Nale couldn't have known about it in Edgedancer - even he couldn't have rationalized Taln's return away. Nale did speak about "the right of conquest" to Szeth, which would apply here and make it impossible for him to personally kill Gavilar and Jasnah. After all - who could furnish him with proper warrants of execution for them? And as I pointed out earlier in the thread, he also may have thought that interaction between humans and Parshendi could be dangerous and wanted to prevent any further rapprochement.

Sorry, but IIRC most of this is wrong. Veden, Alethi and some other languages aren't descended from the Dawnchant - only the Shin, Herdazian and the Horneater languages are. The majority of Vedens also do look exactly like Alethi, as Dalinar notes during his visit to Vedenar in OB. But there is a sizeable minority of redheads, who may or may not be pale-skinned, due to interbreeding with the Horneaters. Who also differ in skin tone by tribe, BTW. And I am not sure where the idea that the Vedens are more likely to have violet eyes than anybody else comes from?

So, isn't it odd and disappointing that it never occured to anybody in the Northern Scadrial that Skimmers would be ideally suited for various forms of non-powered flight? Not even expeditions to the Roughs and beyond seem to have thought of it, despite all the obvious advantages for scouting, delivering messages over long distances, etc. And now it looks like they'll skip all the way to ettmetal-powered airships instead, thanks to the contact with SoScads... sigh. Though, maybe if weight medallions become more common, but the airships remain rare, somebody would see the opportunity? Or maybe they already did in the South?

Well, first of all, Odium thought that he couldn't lose since Dalinar had been unwittingly "his" for so long through his susceptibility to and addiction to the Thrill. So, why wait? Secondly, we don't really know for sure what the winning condition for Odium is. Dalinar said (paraphrasing): "You can conquer us or you can kill us, but it won't set you free" - and Odium agreed with him. So, whatever the Fused may fondly hope, the Desolations were only means to an end, and eradicating humanity on Roshar isn't the ultimate goal. Honor might have overextended and fatally weakened himself trying to protect humans, but Cultivation doesn't seem overly fond of them and wouldn't be defeated that way. Also, Honor's death didn't release his share of Odium's bonds, so it is unclear whether even Cultivation's death would free him, if she manages to seed the Nightwatcher with her cognitive shadow in similar way. We'll have to wait and see what other options Odium has, but it is quite certain that they are more difficult and laborous.

Well, IMHO the history of the Five Scholars suggests some larger long-term purpose for their Returns. After all, as far as we know, none of them seems to have fulfilled their missions so far, despite abnormally long existences for ther kind. Also, at least 3 of them had visited Roshar and were inspired in some of their discoveries and inventions by their experiences on that world. Now Vasher is back on Roshar during a critical time of the final(?) inter-Shard struggle in the system and so is Nightblood, creation of which was a direct result of his and Shashara's previous sojourn there and their wish to re-create a shardblade with Awakening. Oh, and it seems like Nightblood is currently the only means of dealing with certain powerful minions of Odium permanently. Far too coincidental for my taste, if it is supposed to be wholly unconnected with Endowment. Yes, yes, I know that there aren't going to be any major Cosmere cross-overs in SA. At the same time, if Vasher and Nightblood were supposed to be inconsequental cameos, why did Sanderson chose to write the whole prequel book establishing their backstory? Why did he make Vasher a Splinter of another Shard than the 3 in the Rosharan system? The Shard, which tends to deal with future dangers by creating human splinters and bestowing on them hidden pre-cognition of the moment when they could make a vital difference? Endowment does actively steer evolution of nations on her world by sending the Returned, however. This is pretty hands-on, though somewhat indirect. Also, fairly recent in Shardic terms as of Warbreaker - IIRC Returns only started 600 years or so prior to the events in the novel.

It seems that Wax's body wasn't even properly dead, because it was still able to tap F-Gold. There also wasn't the terrible tearing sensation that Kelsier experienced upon dying in The Secret History, so Wax must have been clinically dead at most. In fact, his "last walk" must have been kind of a cheat in that sense. P.S. I really wonder why Szeth doesn't remember his death experience - we know that he was properly dead, and this recent WoB: suggests to me that Cultivation is also doing some variation of "last walk" for Rosharans. Even if that's not the case, Szeth should still remember his short stint in the Cognitive Realm, shouldn't he? Unless somebody erased his memory on purpose. Hm... is that yet another piece of her master plan?

True. Lift worldhopping by herself wouldn't be all that interesting, though, as she could only visit the worlds that have perpendicularities, like lots of other worldhoppers already do. But if she can infuse gemstones with her metabolised stormlight, then she would also be able to power other Radiants off-world. Which would open mind-blowing possibilities, if she teams up with an Elsecaller or a Willshaper. It always seemed like such a cruel joke that these 2 Orders have unparalleled abilities for exploration of the Cosmere, which are rendered effectively useless by the fact that stormlight is only available on Roshar and difficult to store for more than a couple of weeks. Right. I'd really, really love for Jasnah to become a worldhopper. However, there is the problem of powering her surges off-Roshar - as I am sure that if anybody could figure out how to get their spren off-world, which is supposed to be difficult, but not impossible, it would be her. Teaming up with Lift might be one entertaining possibility. I used to think that Jasnah could get an F-Nicrosil spike and store stormlight investiture in metalminds, which would get around the volatility problem, or get an allomantic spike and hack the magical systems to fuel her surges with the power of Preservation, but unfortunately there was this recent WoB that seems to suggest that hemalurgic spike would cause problems with a Nahel spren - spoilered for length: However, it occured to me that maybe there is another method that would allow storage of stormlight over sufficient amount of time to explore the cosmere - aluminium containers. As far as I understand it, surrounding gems infused with stormlight with aluminium should prevent investiture from escaping. This would be a far more accessible solution than the few available perfect gems. So, maybe that's what will allow Elsecallers and Willdhapers to finally live up to their full potential as scholars and explorers? Indeed. In fact, I can't help wondering if Khriss has some means of visiting minor shardworlds lacking perpendicularities, or if she is as limited to the major shardworlds as everybody else. In the latter case her being supposedly the most knowledgeable about the Cosmere still leaves most of it completely unexplored in the physical realm and ripe for discovery by the Elsecallers and Willshapers. Khriss and Jasnah could form a collaboration for the ages! By-the-by I'd really love a Sanderson story about somebody becoming a worldhopper - discovering the secret wonder of inter-world travel by themselves. Maybe Shai from "The Emperor's Soul"? She seemed determined to track down the treacherous Imperial Fool, whom we know to be Hoid, after all. Her Forging wouldn't work off-world, but her mundane skills are impressive and seem tailored to world-hopping.

So, there definitely is evidence supporting this theory - Kaladin does attract glory-spren on several occasions, which, as we now know, are particularly associated with the Bondsmiths, Syl's jealousy towards them in OB, repeated chats with and a couple of visions from the Stormfather... but I really hope that it doesn't happen. Because it would be so, so predictable. Yes, Sanderson has done a lot to try to differentiate Kaladin from a stereotypical fantasy protagonist, but he still is the SA character who fits the trope most closely. Which is why many readers expected him to take over from Dalinar at some point since WoK. And here is the thing - Kaladin is _a_ protagonist, one of several, not _the_ main protagonist. This story has an ensemble cast, rather than being about Kaladin and his side-kicks. Yes, Kaladin was the only one apart from Dalinar who rode the storm on-screen, however the Stormfather did also talk to Eshonai just before her transformation and to Lopen, when he accepted his Second Oath. He also talked to Navani when they visited the vision of Aharietam, but that was at Dalinar's behest. I disagree. Dalinar's past certainly informs his current decisions, but his lived experience is what made him capable of becoming the Bondsmith that he is, and perhaps more. And his decisions in the "present" very much shape the narrative on the grand scale. I strongly suspect that the Bondsmiths always tended to be older, it is the nature of their position. And yes, IMHO it is very likely that in the days of the Radiants, prospective Bondsmiths started in other Orders, because I am convinced that they don't have any squires, yet it would have made little sense for outsiders unfamiliar with the institutional culture to suddenly find themselves having to guide the Knights and keep them united. And sure, Dalinar will age - unless he fully ascends to Honor, that is, but significantly older people like Taravangian and Adrotagia are still around and active, even without the invigorating effect of stormlight, which makes one very healthy for one's age. And didn't Sadeas think in his PoVs in WoR that he "hopefully" had decades left to live yet?

Nice find, but unfortunately I don't think that the coachman could be the Alethi Cob. Alethi, after all, are supposed to be very tall even for Rosharans, who tend to be taller than other folks from the Cosmere because of their low gravity - 0.7 Earth standard, IIRC. Most confirmed worldhoppers in SA are desribed as noticeably "short" - Felt, for instance, only comes up to Dalinar's chest, yet he was completely unremarkable in Mistborn 1. And those who aren't, like Hoid and certain Nalthians, have known illusion and/or body-changing abilities. Yet here is what is said of coachman Cob in the chapter 3 of BoM: "Cob, the new coachman, to hop down and yank open the carriage door. There was a frantic eagerness to the little man’s motions..." Cob is short even by Scadrial standards, he would have seemed like a literal "little person" in Alethkar, but there is no mention of him appearing as such in "Oathbringer".

There are a few inconsistencies/ret-cons between the text of WoK and what we learned in Oathbringer - I noticed this on my recent re-read of SA. For instance, in WoK it was mentioned that the incident where Dalinar almost killed his brother happened 10 years previously, while in OB it was actually about 29. Also, in WoK Jasnah was supposed to have identified Gavilar's last message as a quote from the in-world WoK and provided Dalinar with the book several months prior, while we now know that both of them were familiar with the it for years. Ditto Gavilar was supposed to have remained warlike and conquest-minded right until a year or so before he first met the Listeners in WoK, whereas in OB we saw him changing into a poltician and stepping back from military matters pretty much right after the last battle for unification of Alethkar, again roughly 28-29 years prior to the start of WoK. Kadash was supposed to have been one of Adolin's boyhood tutors in his second career as an ardent, while according to OB he barely had enough time learn his new vocation himself and only briefly tutored Adolin while still an officer. Etc. Frankly, Gavilar making the arrangements that he did for Alethkar, as a result of which Elokhar as king was left with no lands of his own and had to depend on Dalinar and Adolin for everything never made any sense. I mean, it would have been quite difficult for even a very talented politician to truly rule in such circumstances. Also, did it mean that Kholin princedom had to pay for the royal court and it's doubtlessly high expenses, while the country was at peace and the king couldn't lease the soulcasters to the Highprinces for exorbitant prices? If, so, it weakened both the princedom and the crown for no good reason.

I too am very curious about Marsh's choice to live after what Ruin did to him and Sazed's choice to leave him as is, instead of healing him back into human form. After all, in their conversation at the end of BoM Harmony hinted that Paalm, even if they could have restored her intial spikes, would have been terribly scarred by the experience, so it may have been for the better that she died. Marsh was possessed by Ruin for 2 years and forced to commit unspeakable atrocities. How is it, that he was able to come to terms with it all and decided to live a magically prolongued life to boot? What motivates him and fills his days? Conversely, why didn't Sazed heal Marsh, after all his sacrifices and suffering? Made _him_ a Mstborn, maybe. All those spikes are supposed to constantly hurt, after all, and to be quite fatiguing as well. As to who Marsh hangs out with and who purchases necessary stuff for him - I can only assume the kandra. They have quite a bit in common and they are the only people around, other than Harmony and Kelsier, who still remember the World of Ash first-hand. OTOH, I am not really sure why Marsh still saunters around in his Inquisitor look. Didn't he have a F-gold spike? That should have allowed him to get rid of his tatoos, no? Black-tinted spectacles exist - all that Marsh would need to do to blend in would be to remove his tatoos, stop shaving his head and dress in a contemporary manner. As an aside, I don't understand how an Inquisitor could shave himself anyway, since from what we have heard about the steelsight, it shouldn't allow for seeing reflections. No metal in those, after all. Frankly, Marsh somehow not dying at the end of the first trilogy, when everything outside was burning, and him now secretively puttering in the shadows, yet also not actively helping the protaginists except for delivering Spook's book to them in the second trilogy annoys me a bit. What's the point of giving a character an unnaturally long life and great powers, only for them to stand back while newbie protagonists blunder around? There are too many exceptionally long-lived dudes running about and being mysterious in Sanderson's books. And Khriss. But we have a good idea about what _she_ is doing. And while we don't know Hoid's overall goal, at least we know that it is something huge and he has become much more overtly active and helpful in the Stormlight Archive. But someone like Marsh sitting on his posterior while the Set and their Shardic backer were doing their thing is just irritating. Ditto all those other MB1 characters traipsing around the cosmere for some reason. Here is to hoping that Marsh actually has a significant role planned for him in the Third Era trilogy and that's why he is still around. Ditto Kelsier, but at least he isn't actually on Scadrial in Era 2, so he has an excuse for not dealing with Trellists.

I disagree. Regarding MB Era 1, most of the crew members were friends before the book started. They were, of course, all men, but then, I have always found MB Era 1 treatment of women to be fairly problematic - basically, apart from Vin, they almost exclusively appeared in the narrative only when a prominent male character needed a love interest or an occasional vengeful ex. Even among the bit characters, women appear rarely and mostly as passive bits of scenery - anything active is done by men. As to SA, it is better, but we still have the significant majority of PoVs being men and the majority of bit characters with potential of evolving into more significant roles ditto. It is also not true that male characters don't have friendships, they do: Lirin and Wistiow Kaladin and his spear squad in Amaram's army, Bridge 4, Moash (even though that goes south), Adolin Dalinar with Sadeas (yes, yes, but they used to be friends, both ruminated on the loss of their friendship and Dalinar mourned Torol's death), Havar, Kadash, even Amaram - though we only have a "tell, not show" for that. Still, Amaram's PoV in WoR and his deep regret over losing Dalinar's friendship demonstrates that it was there and important for both men. One could say that Dalinar was unwise in his choice of friends, but he did have them. He may even win Kadash back. Taravangian has a whole group of friends, who are also followers of his cause, but the core group looks like people who used to be his friends beforehand. Now, there is one female character in SA who has friends - Jasnah. The short spanreed conversation between her and the other 2 Veristitalians did fully convince me in a very concise manner that the 3 of them are good friends and I really, really hope that those 2 make it to Urithiru in Book 4, since somebody has to take over large part of research now that Jasnah has been saddled with the responsibility of ruling "Alethkar in exile". Also, it would be very helpful to have some Elsecaller squires and they seem to be ideally suited. One of the people involved - Scion Eth(?) is even a woman, so Jasnah does have a female friend. Still, I feel that part of the problem is that women are absent from positions of closeness and certain trust to other important female characters. Like, none of them have maid-servants, for instance, which makes very little sense, because looking impeccable while traveling and researching, etc. in pre-industrial conditions should take a lot of work. Shallan kinda has a reason to travel alone and to buy local services to keep her wardrobe in respectable condition. But Jasnah, what, with being a target of assassination attempts and deeply engrossed in her research? It makes zero sense that she didn't have a trusted servant who'd keep her things up to her standards. Nor does it feel logical that while we get lots of short, but memorable characterization for various supporting male characters, female scholars and scribes seem fairly interchangeable. It seemed to change a little bit towards the end of WoR, but OB kinda ignored all of that again. Even with the Windrunners, introduction of women into the Bridges happened rather abruptly, rather than organically. Wouldn't it have made much more sense if scribes and runners joined the newly formed bridgmen batallion from the start and we have seen bits of them from early WoR on? How did it function without proper clerks, anyway? Sigzil only sorta did it for Bridge 4 itself. Etc.

According to the Stormfather Dalinar was: "THE FIRST IN MILLENNIA TO BIND ME." Oathbringer, chapter 4 "Oaths". So, Gavilar must have remained in very initial stages of bonding, not even the First Oath. His inability to heal when he was mortally wounded confirms this. Szeth was able to heal himself with the stormlight from Gavilar's shardplate, but the king himself didn't glow even a little. Also, it is inaccurate to say that the Stormfather was looking for somebody _to bond_ - he had to show somewhat likely people visions, Honor's last will compelled him to do so, but he also tried hard to avoid being bound, even going so far as attempting to kill a prospective Bondsmith in Dalinar at the end of WoR. Dalinar had to force the issue to establish the bond. I also strongly suspect that Gavilar was stuck in a rut with the Stormfather for a fairly long time prior to his death - when he sent Dalinar to Rathalas, he also said that he had something of momentous nature to confide in his younger brother, something that he was only prepared to share in person. I strongly suspect that it concerned the visions, but of course things went south afterwards and it never happened. Well, we don't really know if these were truly Gavilar's intentions or if he was cagy, possibly even misleading towards the people he worked with/used and these are just their own interpretations of his goals. For instance, it is difficult to believe that he wanted to "bring the Desolation to bring out the Heralds", when the visions unambiguously told him that the Last Desolation was coming anyway, no matter what anybody did. IMHO, Gavilar wanted to cause a False Desolation by freeing Bo-Ado-Mishram, in order to unify and prepare humanity for the greater catastrophe that Honor's visions foretold. This is not entirely true. It is strongly hinted that he received his first vision shortly _before_ visiting the Nightwatcher: "Dalinar came to himself, gasping, in the cabin of a stormwagon. Heart pounding, he spun about, kicking aside empty bottles and lifting his fists. Outside, the riddens of a storm washed the walls with rain. What in the Almighty’s tenth name had that been? One moment, he’d been lying in his bunk. The next, he had been … Well, he didn’t rightly remember." Oathbringer, Chapter 114 "The Cost". As we know from previous volumes, Dalinar was prone to physically enacting his visions and intially could only remember their contents very hazily, if at all. So it seems that the _decision_ to visit the Nightwatcher, to change, was already enough to open him to the Stormfather a little. BTW, I wonder how Gavilar managed to keep his visions secret - was the "sleep-acting" aspect just a quirk of Dalinar's?

I am not sure why you think that acceptance and even celebration of homosexuality necessarily went hand-in-hand with being generally "socially progressive", or level of technology. Case in point, ancient Greece, with classical Athens as the most extreme example. The athenians were extraordinarily oppressive towards women, slaves and non-citizens, but were certainly very positive towards male homosexuality. Only officers need women to scribe for them in Alethi armies and they can also use sisters or unrelated scribes. Most rural dark-eyed women are illiterate - Hesina was the only one who could read and write in Hearthstone. And from what we have seen, there are plenty of unmarried, childless older soldiers. I really don't see how strict gender roles would conflict with sexual orientation for most military men. As to civilians, there is a lot of leeway in what both men and women could be doing and for most occupations, having a spouse of a different sex might be helpful, but not absolutely necessary. Speaking of children, according to Sanderson, stormlight suffusing the ecology greatly reduces frequency of infectious diseases on Roshar, which believably explains why people exhibit the so-called "Western European Marriage Pattern", only with many more opportunities for women than was the case iRL.

I don't see why Jasnah can't become a friend eventually, once Shallan matures a bit and their relationship changes accordingly. I really hope that Ishnah may become a friend, instead of betraying Shallan to the Ghostbloods - they are interested in some of the same things and it would be nice to see her befriend a dark-eyes and begin to overcome her classism. Not to mention that Shallan could learn from her what it was actually like, instead of spinning fiction like she did with Veil so far. Balat's betrothed/maybe now wife Eylita, who stood by the Davars through thick and thin has just arrived to Urithiru when OB ended. She is allegedly not quite up to Shallan's level intellectually, but friendship might still be possible. But yea, I was kinda annoyed when Shallan's followers and prospective squires turned out all to be ex-soldier dudes, until Ishnah muscled her way in. Here is to hoping that she isn't some kind of plant or spy and won't be tempted to become one. I'd still like it if some female artists or musicians eventually found their way into the ranks of Lightweavers and their squires. I always appreciated how different this Order seemed to be than stereotypical "knights", and looking for different people only to then have folks like Vathah and Elhokar joining them, who didn't display any artistic inclinations at all. I can only assume that Red is next, sigh....

They did keep it secret until now, in some pretty harrowing circumstances. Also, families are sometimes remarkably successful in keeping harmful secrets. Anyway, I don't think that Balat will be a problem. I am among those who believe that he'll be relieved to be away from the influence of whatever Unmade was haunting their family, which, I suspect, also conjured/enhanced his pain that then needed to be assuaged by torturing small animals. Even when the things looked darkest for the brothers and for his betrothed, who became inextricably involved in their desperate business, Balat was content with the knowledge that at least Shallan had a chance to escape and survive. IMHO, he has the maturity to accept the truth about their mother's death without blaming his little sister, and also to understand that even if Lady Davar managed to murder her daughter, Lin's reaction to that would have been unlikely to result in a better situation for himself and his brothers. And that if Shallan didn't become a Radiant and gained the influence she has, their whole family likely would have perished in the Veden Civil War, instead of being spirited away in the nick of time. Not to mention that there is also the aspect of Balat's betrothed Eylita, who may well be his wife by the time book 4 opens, possibly even a mother of his child. Given that Shallan facilitated that relationship and steered it a bit in the early stages, do we really want her being laden with even more familial guilt, if her brother goes off the deep end and hurts the poor girl? Not IMHO. Now the twins, and particularly Jushu are another matter entirely. Balat didn't fully trust them and shielded them from the worst news when corresponding with Shallan. Jushu was very resentful of Shallan's preferential treatment after their mother died and even hated her for a time. It also seems that the younger boys were closer to their mother, who had made plans for their futures. Well, Wikim's certainly, but given that Jushu couldn't continue his swordsmanship training, which he had been passionate about, after her death, maybe him too. Wikim didn't voice his displeasure with Shallan, but Lin wouldn't let him escape the abusive household that was driving him into suicidal depression and join the ardentia because he was a "spare" to Balat's heir after Helaran's disappearance, so he also has grounds for discontent. It is the quiet ones that you have to watch. I see potential for problems and heartbreak with these 2. Between Jushu's anger once he learns the truth and him being a degenerate gambler, he'll quickly turn into a huge liability to his sister and possibly even her in-laws. But yes, Davar family's past is definitely coming to light in Book 4. I don't think that it will be the result of Shallan's brothers blabbing, necessarily, but one way or another it is happening.

I really don't see why it shouldn't be done concurrently. Learning and holding stances, etc. also strengthens relevant muscles and it isn't like Shallan has to fear injury. Even iRL in sports you don't spend months on general fitness build-up before being allowed to learn the basics - starting slow and simple, of course. It is the end of the world - nobody has that luxury, least of all one of the few Radiants. I agree that Adolin blindsided and unknowlngly pressured Shallan in an unfortunate way - she might have dealt with the issue better if given a few days to come to terms with the idea, and I also think that he was wrong not to involve Zahel. But neither can we pretend that there wasn't a good reason to teach Shallan the basics ASAP. But during her infiltrations, Shallan operates more like a Rogue. Which means that if her concealement roll fails, she'd likely find herself very much in range of melee attacks . Would depend on the opposition, wouldn't it? A shardblade is a dangerous enough and light enough weapon that it could be pretty deadly even in the hands of somebody untrained, when this person is faced with mooks who have never had to deal with shardblades and aren't particularly courageous or skilled themselves. Vathath and Co. thought that Shallan could have killed them when they learned that she had a shardblade during their trek to the Shattered Plains. So, yes, her protecting innocent civilians against such ruffians would have been doable, even with very basic skills. And she _did_ intend to stand and fight in Thaylenah when all seemed lost, rather than running away. But the brothers who are still alive were adolescents themselves when it all went down and caught full brunt of the consequences. The twins are only 1.5 -2 years older than Shallan, and I don't remember Balat's age exactly, but Helaran thought that he wasn't old enough to lead the family yet during his confrontation with Lin. And well, depending on what they knew about the circumstances of their mother's death and how their father chose to play it, they may not have seen any alternatives that would explain what happened. That is not to say that I believe that Davar family life was idyllic before Shallan bonded Pattern, but what happened afterwards sufficiently explains mental problems of her brothers, IMHO. It does, though. According to the Ghostblood letter to Shallan, Nale had some method of tracking down surge-binders or even people who were close to bonding a spren. We see a little of it in "Edgedancer" and it seems clear that he only knew general location of his prey in Yeddaw and had to do some old-fashioned investigation to figure out who it was. So, Shallan was probably protected by 3 things: After the fiasco with her mother, Shallan's bond to Pattern degraded to almost nothing - which left Nale with a "signal" or whatever that was too weak for him to detect. Helaran tracked the Skybreakers down and they decided, for some reason that he was the one who was about to bond a spren. According to Ghostbloods, Skybreakers sometimes recruit such people and somehow prevent them from completing the connection. In this light, it is interesting that Mr.T and his entourage speculated that Shallan may have been trained by Helaran (!). When Shallan started to recover, Lin Davar gifted her with an aluminium chain - and as we know aluminium dampens investiture, so it too may have helped to make her invisible to whatever Nale used to trace his victims. It is possible that the mother wanted to scare Shallan into using Lightweaving and revealing herself as a surge-binder to Lin. Whereupon she hoped to convince him to hand their daughter over to the Skybreakers. How many times is Shallan supposed to almost kill Pattern?! Because it already happened once. And how wouldn't it feel extremely repetitive to do so again? Not to mention that Radiancy isn't an "up or out" system. After OB we know for sure that it is entirely possible to stop progressing at the 3rd or 4th oath and it doesn't mean that the bond will degrade. Nor do Shallan's Truths so far have anything to do with which man she is supposed to chose. They are all about her past. As long as she doesn't try to deny her past, Pattern will be fine. Which leads us to: Why can't they be both? I mean, large part of what makes Veil so seductive to Shallan and so dangerous to Pattern is that this role allows her to wriggle out of living with her Truths. Veil did not have murderous parents, she didn't have brothers who she needs to worry about, or mourn because they were killed by a man to whom she is attracted. Veil is older, experienced, streetwise. Dark-eyed. She never had to struggle with limitations that were placed upon Shallan. Etc., etc. We can all agree that this is all false, right? However you turn it, this is not real Shallan, it is a role. That is not to say that she also doesn't have elements of real Shallan. Her love of risk-taking, conmanship, her genuine attraction to Kaladin. Now, "Shallan" whom many posters here decry as fake is actually the only one of the personas who aknowledges her past, her Truths. She hadn't come to terms with them yet and she is hurting, but neither does she seek to re-write her history. Every journey needs a beginning. This is what makes her more "real" than Veil and certainly safer for Pattern. Is it all of Shallan? No. But at least it has her roots. And let's not forget that Wit _also_ told Shallan to enjoy herself, to drink of life. Maybe that's what will give her strength to confront her pain eventually, as she must. I don't mention Radiant, because it is strictly a utility tool, not fleshed out.