Isilel

But Parshendi/listeners have been around the whole time! If Nale felt that after Honor's death the land reverted to _them_, he'd have joined them centuries ago. Instead, he manipulated them into killing Gavilar and then left them to their fate at the hands of enraged Alethi. So, yea, unfortunately there is every reason to think that the "singers" whose law he now feels compelled to follow are the Fused. Therefore, his nascent-Radiant killing days are likely not over - because one way for the Fused to use him and those Skybreakers who'd follow him is to continue with the extermination of their most dangerous foes before they can come into their power. All it would take would be the Fused making a law that humans are forbidden, on pain of death, to surgebind, and presto. I do hope, that not all Skybreakers but Szeth are going to follow Nale, though, because his logic just doesn't make a lot of sense for a sane person. For one thing, it ignores the fact that Odium can't rule by the right of conquest since he hasn't yet won. For another, it ignores Cultivation's prior and still valid claim. And for the third - shouldn't Honor's testament as presented in Stormfather's visions also be a consideration? The Skybreaker issue is one of the things that make me wonder how a 1-year-skip after OB is supposed to work, as Dalinar really should try to reach them immediately and work to convince them. He can use visions again, after all, and Szeth should have told him their location. Nale thought that they would need time to reconcile their oaths with the new reality, but I very much fear that after a year they may be a lost cause and/or will lack the information needed to make a different choice without breaking their oaths. Not to mention that the squires left behind in Purelake are in need of rescue as well.

So, I like this idea, but IMHO Sanderson forgot that when Lopen first appears in WoK, it is mentioned that: "this man was smiling, though he wore a slave's mark on his head. This mark is old, Kaladin thought." So, it seems that Lopen had been a slave for a significant amount of time before he was sent to the bridges. It is unclear whether this "mark" was a brand - which would mean that he did commit a crime, or at least was convicted for one, or a tatoo that would mean that he was enslaved due to debt. Either way, it contradicts the lack of prior hardships and dark moments implied by the this WoB. It also makes me wonder why his "mother" and "cousins" didn't help him when it happened. Admittedly, being a slave needn't always be awful, but still.

So, that's what happens with Lift and Nale at the end of Edgedancer: So yea, IMHO it is pretty clear that _this_ is where Lift reached the Third Ideal of Edgedancers. Other incidents laid the foundation, but this was the culmination.

Yes. That's how it is with investiture - it is very difficult to completely destroy it. Splintered Shards can be reconstituted too and I doubt that you'd be up an arms about the fact that Honor isn't truly gone and most likely will be brought back . Let the hate flow through you, young Jedi ! Why shouldn't it be an accomplished swordsman, who has a particularly close bond to his shardblade and who has been under the influence of the principles from the "Way of Kings" and slowly aligning with the Radiant ideals for years? Who else is there? Kal refused to have anything to do with dead shardblades and Dalinar's evolution necessitated him giving up his. There are hints that yes, it could have been him, but the Stormfather is a jealous spren and Dalinar also needed to give up swords in order to learn to solve things by other means. That was, in part, why he didn't bond Jezrien's Honorblade either, much as as this, and it's "sudden, but inevitable" theft frustrated me at the time. There are also hints that Oathbringer will be revived as well - Dalinar already wants to make sure that it ends up "in good hands". Which, as a complete aside, will be Taln's, IMHO. I do think it fairly likely that Adolin will die in book 5, simply because the Radiants and/or PoV characters can't be completely immune if we are to take the threat of the Final Desolation seriously, and Sanderson doesn't have it in him to kill Kaladin, whereas killing Shallan as yet another of the already underrepresented female PoVs would also be somewhat problematic. That doesn't mean that there isn't potentially interesting and impactful stuff for him to do between now and then. Of course, it is up to the author - OB was a bit of a missed opportunity in that regard. How many of these other shardbearers have met and interacted with their blade's dead spren in Shadesmar and have been around when all 3 Realms were united? How is it "ridiculous" that these unprecedented events led to an unprecedented result? And did it occur to you that Adolin's "niceness" is the result of traits that align him with the Edgedancers' Ideals? Which, BTW, was a process that has been happening throughout WoK and WoR. Only after the Tower did Adolin truly start up that path. Yes, it was luck that Adolin ended up with a shardblade of a compatible Order. But due to Nale's shenangians we know have proof that many people do, to some degree, fit more than one Order. So, it was, like, 20% chance that he'd get one, rather than one in thousands. I also disagree that a character has to be a tragic drama-queen to be enjoyable. Personally, I find it refreshing that a character that would normally be killed early in an epic fantasy novel so that an all-too-common drama-laden "unlikely hero" stereotype is forced to step up, can instead be a continuing character in his own right. Nor did I find Adolin's character development lacking or devoid of challenges in WoK and WoR (except that we _really_ should have seen his reaction to Shallan's "death" when that bridge dropped).

@Yata: You are adressing your arguments to somebody else. To quote myself from the first post on this page: " I agree with everything you have said re: stormlight. Honestly, I don't even see how the idea that it could belong to any other Shard than Honor (with maaaayyybe some hint of Cultivation. Or not) can be anything but illogical and a contradiction of the text " My theory is that Endowment is subtly involved in the current events on Roshar via her splinter, Vasher and his and Shoshara's creation, Nightblood. That, in fact, he and the other 4 scholars may have Returned in the first place specifically because she foresaw trouble from Odium and needed to prepare some tools for her intervention. That's the reason why all the 5 scholars have seemingly failed to achieve the goal of their Return despite living for centuries. In the end, only Vasher will manage to do so.

She was talking to Adolin in his mind during the Thaylenah battle - unless we hear that other dead-blade Sharbearers experienced the same, this is a pretty convincing evidence that he is in the process of reviving her. The point is, if a Recreance spren testifies that it wasn't a terrible betrayal of spren by humans, but a mutual, if tragically mistaken decision, that would change everything in a way that a few successful modern bonds can't. Hope that the dead spren can be eventually revived will help too.

He also did a lot of "I will listen to those who are ignored" - people often forget that the "ignored" don't have to be the poor and the downtrodden. Lift achieved this ideal by listening to Nale! So, yea, Adolin listening to Dalinar definitely counts. And so does him listening to Kaladin about Amaram, not to mention him always listening to Renarin, etc.

OK, then. Hopefully, this isn't too much of a digression: They have, this is specifically mentioned in the first of Jasnah's PoVs. Ivory is the lone rebel and his fellows even wanted to kill Jasnah because of it at some point - maybe during her soujourn in Shadesmar? Now, the honorspren/Syl situation used to be similar, but they have changed their position because their follow the leadersip of the Stormfather and he has changed his opinion on the matter. There is no such option for the other spren peoples that have forsworn bonding once and for all, though. Not to mention that even among spren peoples not generally opposed to the bond, many individual spren are going to hold back out of fear. Proving that there is a chance of reviving the dead shardblade spren will be critically important for uniting Nahel spren against Odium and forestalling vengeful individuals like Malata's Spark from causing trouble. Both because it would offer hope for the dead spren and because Mayalaran will, hopefully, be able to explain that the Recreance was a mutual decision and the responsibility for it doesn't rest with humans alone. You have it backwards - Adolin reviving his spren will be necessary to motivate the Nahel spren to bond/bond in great numbers respectively. Getting another Edgedancer is a beneficial by-product. This is a completely artificial limitation. Because it was one way with Kaladin and the other Windrunners doesn't mean that it has to be the same way with all the other "extra" Radiants. They are going to spring up independantly, as well as via apprenticeships to the already existing POVs. Ym wasn't tied to Renarin either. The thing is, revival of a dead spren is an important enough plot-line that it has to be performed by a PoV-character to have proper significance. So, it might as well be somebody who we already care about, and who has already demonstrated requisite qualities, instead of a new character, who'd need to be built up from zero. It certainly doesn't hurt that the Orders need to grow and that they badly need standard Edgedancers in Urithiru and on the Shattered Plains. So far, it doesn't seem like those have much in the way of useful information and, of course they were made 2.5 millenia after the last Desolation, so no. It is already a plot point. And why should any extra PoVs be needed? Once they learn what needs to be done, they'd just identify to which Order the shardblades originally belonged and try to match them up with compatible people, who would then receive the same instruction as the squires of that Order and get help with whatever extra stuff Adolin discovers is needed for revival. We'll then occasionally hear about the successes, though those won't be particularly common. Why not both? It is the end of the world, they did just nearly die and will continue to take on risky responsibilities. There is a real danger of her missing her chance if she waits too long. Not that it is a good situation, mind you. As to confronting her problems and finally fully integrating the Truth about her mother - that's why Shallan's brothers have arrived. Confessing the truth to them will be the neccessary step in this process. Also, with them being safe and sound despite her fears, there is one less thing for her to lock into the back of her mind.

Now, I know that this thread is focussed on a single aspect of the novel to the exclusion of everything else, but this is just plain untrue. Reviving a pre-Recreance spren would be huge for the main narrative - not only would it reconcile some spren peoples who have sworn off bonding - like the Stoneward and Elsecaller, possibly even swaying the vengeful Nahel spren like Malata's Spark, but it would also provide an avenue for rescuing other dead shardblades and give Our Heroes access to precious information about the past, as the bond matures and Mayalaran regains her memories. This isn't "Highlander". We have gotten 2 other Windrunner PoVs despite having Kaladin - who has vastly more page-space than Lift, and a few aspiring ones to boot. Not to mention that Lift's pecularities make her very different from standard Edgedancers and may even result in inabilty to have squires. Oh, and she will be mostly with the Azish until the second series at least, whereas they desperately need some Edgedancers in Urithiru and on the Shattered Plains/Unclaimed Hills, which are going to be flooded with starving refugees from Alethkar. After all, unlike with Lift, normal Edgedancers using Regrowth on plants would result in more food. And there are going to be a lot of sick and hurt people for them to tend to as well. So, yea, we need lots and lots of Edgedancers ASAP. And to touch briefly on the actual topic - I personally would have preferred if Shallan didn't marry quite yet and took time to work through her issues instead - but it seems that the whole "end of the world" scenario, where Our Heroes have just narrowly escaped death isn't sufficiently taken into consideration in this discussion. The characters are probably keenly aware that they if they don't seize the day immediately, they might not have the opportunity later...

So, I think that when Odium came to Rosharan system he tried to set up shop on Ashyn intially - that's why the planet has a Perpendicularity. Honor and Cultivation fought him there through their agents and managed to boot him out and imprison him on Braize. Dawnshards were used to accomplish it and devastation of Ashyn was the collateral damage of this battle. This is why Honor and Cultivation welcomed Ashyn refuges to Roshar - the Shards owed them. And possibly that's why Honor continued backing their descendants - though I suspect that independent influx of humans from other worlds and resultant misunderstandings played an important part in the clash between humans and singers that led to Odium getting his mitts on the souls of furious singer dead and starting a cycle of Desolation.

Yea, we have been told from the beginning that the Orders tended to increase their numbers significantly during the Desolations, which would be impossible if every Radiant had to be super special and unique. And since WoR we have also known about the squires and that Nahel spren sometimes make mistakes, pick people who aren't all that compatible and the bond can't progress as a result. I.e. that epigraph about a notable warrior with a very straithforward, direct way of thinking having been bonded by a Cryptic... I can only imagine that something like this usually happens with "orphaned" spren who don't have much choice, like Eshonai's and Elhokar's ones in OB. There used to be another restriction on Radiant numbers in the past - namely that quantity of Nahel spren willing to bond was limited and lower prior to Honor's splintering. So, not every squire would have been eventually able to bond a spren of their own and spren could evaluate for years and chose the candidates that they liked most. They don't have that luxury in SA, however, so becoming a Radiant will be "easier" for a time, as various spren peoples become convinced that they need to bond again and fight Odium. Oh, and Nale has surely suffered more than Kaladin and Shallan, but that's neither here nor there. I am also fairly certain that most of the Heralds won't become Radiants, but Ash and Taln most likely will, IMHO. Well, the Skybreaker squires can only use one of their surges - as Nale explained to Szeth, access to Division comes only after swearing the Third Ideal and bonding your own spren. It is very likely to be the case for all the other Orders that have squires except for the Windrunners, whose Resonance is specifically "strength of the squires", which applies both to their numbers and their abilities. And well, if squires didn't have surges, then Radiant numbers couldn't be ramped up quickly enough for anti-Odium side to be able to resist the Fused without truly making the full spren-bond too cheap and easy. I also very much hope that it is possible to become a squire of one Order, but eventually attract and bond a spren of another. Since becoming a squire is very much a luck of a draw thing and Bridge 4 is such an overhelmingly prominent source of somewhat fleshed-out back-up Radiants, some of whom would fit other Orders better than the Windrunners (Sigzil, Rock, etc.).

Well, I never claimed that there is going to be a major crossover. However, other worlds and other "gods" are explicitely mentioned in OB. Our heroes have already run into people from the other worlds in Shadesmar and will run into more of them as the numbers of Elsecallers and Willshapers grow and they explore the Cognitive realm. Sapient spren living there already know about the other worlds and serve as guides to those travellers as well as trade with them and will eventually share information they have with the new Radiants visiting them. Hoid has been more active in the narrative than ever before and relatively open with various characters. And extra-Rosharan origin of humans has just been rediscovered and this information was widely disseminated. All of this is in the text of the novel itself, which, IMHO, trumps all and any WoBs or at least puts them into context. Existence of the other inhabited worlds is about to become fairly widely known on Roshar, which is a very different situation from the previous cosmere novels and series. However, you can't pretend that Sanderson gave Vasher an otherworldy origin, different magic and close connection to another Shard by accident. He had a purpose in writing _this_ background for him instead of something else. Vivenna sharing information on how to create her version of an Awakened sword with the honorspren is unlikely to remain just a a bit of color, either.

Well, Vasher is a splinter of Endowment and Nightblood is a piece of her investiture. Both of them have also been integral parts of SA from the early stages of it's development and, apparently, are important enough to merit an origin novel. Vivenna has joined them in OB and promptly spread secrets of Awakening among the honorspren. So, yea, other than Vasher, Vivenna, Nightblood and Awakening technics, all of which come from Nalthis and ultimately stem from Endowment . Oh, and it is very likely that the 5 Scholars were intended for that purpose from the beginning, that it was the actual reason for their Return, their research interests, etc. The Ghostbloods might also serve some other Shard too, BTW. True, but that's because OB has already explained some of the cosmere basics, with more to come as needed. Which is far beyond Easter eggs and sly winks to the few elect, who are in on the secret, like in the previous novels. I don't expect direct interference from the other Shards during the series, and what we'll see from Endowment and possibly the Ghostbloods' master is going to be strictly through intermediaries, but it wouldn't surprise me if a Shard from outside Roshar manages to pick some of the pieces in the end. After all, Odium by itself probably doesn't have the chops to become the ultimate big bad of the cosmere in the planned space age period, not to mention that we'll be a bit tired of him after 10 volumes of SA... yet (some of) it's power could nicely round out the ultimate antagonists's toolkit.

I agree with everything you have said re: stormlight. Honestly, I don't even see how the idea that it could belong to any other Shard than Honor (with maaaayyybe some hint of Cultivation. Or not) can be anything but illogical and a contradiction of the text. Sorry, proponents. OTOH, I disagree with these statements: So, are we supposed to think it a pure coincidence that an early batch of Returned, a group of 5, none of whom have seemingly achieved the goal of their Return despite living for centuries, has been drawn to Roshar and inspired by their experiences there to invent and create various things that could potentially significantly affect the latest conflict with Odium? Is it completely by chance, that one of them and their greatest and most dangerous creation are on Roshar _now_? That the mechanics of making a toned down-version of an Awakened blade, possibly refined by another of the 5 Scholars, has been already shared with the honorspren? Particularly, given that the way the Return operates is that Endowment shows a selected soul a possible future catastrophe that they might be able to prevent, and while they forget the main reason for their Return until shortly before they can act on it, it subtly affects their Returned lives? IMHO, all of the above points at something very different - namely, that Endowment foresaw the danger several centuries earlier and has taken steps to involve herself carefully and subtly, but doesn't feel like sharing her intentions with Hoid. Likely for a good reason. How is it even possible anymore? Revelations about the origin of humans and the reasons for the Recreance have put existence of other worlds and mass worldhopping front and center of Stormlight Archive. This knowledge is now widespread on Roshar - it is no longer a carefully guarded secret of privileged few like on the other Cosmere worlds. And Warbreaker was specifically written to provide background for 2 SA characters - presumably, characters that are going to be very important in some ways and whose otherworldly abilities are going to be crucial. There is a WoB that Vasher hasn't figured out how to Awaken with stormlight _yet_ - which is a pretty strong hint that he is going to, during the series. Promised Herald flashbacks in the second pentology will certainly feature Braize. So, yea, I imagine that other worlds of Roshar system and Nalthis, or at least some Nalthians with Awakening, are going to feature relatively prominently. The rest, not so much. Even so, I have to wonder _why_ people like Felt from Scadrial (and his wife?) waste years serving first in Dalinar's bodyguard (during his visit to the Nightwatcher) and then among his chasm-jumping scouts (in WoR, IIRC). Did Hoid's correspondence with Sazed take place years before Gavilar's death, perhaps, and prompted Harmony to send some spies to Roshar?

The question that immediately comes to mind: Was the Thrill originally a splinter of Dominion, that was corrupted and co-opted by Odium? Because it is often mentioned how the Thrill is a contest for "dominance" and, of course, it is red, which is a sign of corrupted investiture. P.S. and here is another one: How old is Silverlight? I just had an idea that some of the Radiants, particularly the Elsecallers, Truthwatchers, Lightweavers and Willshapers may have assuaged their fears of inadverently destroying Roshar by leaving it and settling in the Cognitive Realm outside of their native system, instead of participating in the Recreance.

Right. Carrying around a perfect gem for stormlight storage could alleviate the problem, but there still would be a high risk of running out and getting stuck forever on a distant world. However, Lift already has a perfect ability that would allow her to surgebind everywhere and provide other surgebinders with stormlight by infusing gems for them. So, Jasnah - who I also want so badly to become a worldhopper in the end , would need to either team up with Lift, which could be exciting in all the meanings of the word, or to obtain the same ability from the Nightwatcher. I wonder if NW will still dispense boons once she is bonded to a Bondsmith, though. And what Lift's "curse" is. Somebody who knows how to power one kind of investiture with another could find a way to power surgebinding with something else, too. Breath would be easy, but way too costly. Allomancy or Feruchemy would be much more sustainable, particularly given the ability to produce your own metals via Soulcasting, though Jasnah would need a hemalurgic spike to obtain these abilities. But then, Ghostbloods might have some... I also wonder about larkins in this context - can they eat any kind of investiture? And can they do more than eat? Transfer some of it to their masters, maybe? There must be a reason why they are often depicted together with the symbols of the Radiants. Hm, they could become a very dangerous invasive species if they ever managed to reach Nalthis and breed there. P.S. I have been long toying with the idea that some Elsecallers or Willshapers may have simply left for the other worlds during the Recreance, instead of killing their spren. I mean, the prevention aspect of discouraging the other Nahel spren from future bonds would still be present, since once Radiants died on those other worlds, their spren would be stuck there and couldn't communicate with their brethren. And whatever they believed about their world-destroying potential, that would have been in aggregate, whereas a few surgebinders clearly coudldn't be much of a threat. Particularly if they ran out of stormlight soon after arriving wherever. P.S.S Could these ancient surgebinders have been the founders of (cosmere spoilers)

I really don't think that non-sapient spren in fabrials suffer or are any more enslaved than during their bonding with the gemhearts of various Rosharan creatures. Aren't there WoBs that fabrial magi-tech is the future of Roshar? They certainly don't have resources for conventional Industrial Revolution not to mention that stormlight is a wonderfully ecologically clean resource. And very likely new fabrials and other innovations are what will give them an edge this time around, since the Fused are very experienced at command, logistics, strategy, etc. but also stuck in the past and can't change easily.

One interesting detail about Natanatan that I have noticed during my recent re-read of WoK is that in Dalinar's vision where he fights Midnight Essences with a poker he is in Natanatan, but the people don't yet have the characteristic look of modern Natans, since he has to ask where he is, whereas bluish skin and white hair on his "vision family" would have made it obvious to him. So, interbreeding between Siah Aimians and Natans must have happened later than the years 322(?) of the 8th Epoch, whenever that was. It might have even happened after the destruction of Stormseat and the "scouring of Aimia", for all we know. Possibly, this is somehow connected with the prophecy of that lighthouse keeper from one of the interludes - could the majority of Siah Aimians have taken refuge on the islands at the Origin?

Apparently, visiting the Nightwatcher is pretty widespread among the Emuli. In the "Baxil" interlude in WoK, his cousin, who is the other dude working for Shalash, says that his whole family has done it and Baxil himself thinks about it as something that is commonly done. So, her sample is rather representative for Emuli society and gets less so with geographical distance.

Ah, I have missed this detail. This confirms that Moash didn't really care about the parshmen group that Kal had landed in trouble even more. He got involved with them initially so that he could maintain his conviction of human inferiority, though - i.e. "don't become like us". Very much so. He wasn't really like Kaladin at all, even before bad stuff started to happen to him. For instance, he revealed in his PoV that he always was an "angry young man" who didn't feel like he fit anywhere and whom people in general didn't like, including other darkeyes. And yes, there is superficial similarity to Kaladin while still living in Hearthstone, but the thing is, Lirin's family social situation in Hearthstone _was_ unique, which led to Kal's alienation, while there were plenty of second- and first-nahn darkeyes in Kholinar, so Moash's was caused by his personality, rather than anything else. Yet again, all the commonalities between the 2 are external, so I really don't get the often repeated sentiment that Kaladin could have ended up just like Moash, if he hadn't overcome his vengefulness. Very much so. Not to mention that even with his revenge, he unexplicably fixated on a person only tangentially and unknowingly involved in death of his grandparents, rather than on the real culprit. I mean, what happened, however tragic, is something that could have happened in some modern western countries, if a judge/prosecution were a bit too cozy with the law enforcement. In fact, worse things happen sometimes, but does it mean that offcials responsible deserve to be killed? I guess that Elhokar was a convenient target because he was the symbol of everything Moash hated and because the opportunity was there, whereas it would have taken work and effort to find out what really happened and get to Roshone. I would have had more sympathy in the latter case. But all of this is why I don't find Moash to be an interesting option for a future prominent villain. He certainly demonstrates how Odium gets to normal people and I, for one, enjoyed the view into how the Fused operate and their plans for Alethkar that he provided, but I have no interest in him personally and would absolutely hate it if he got any kind of redemption arc. As an aside, the Fused should start killing humans en masse soon, given impending shortage of food caused by the Everstorm's destruction and general chaos, as well their own goal to "destroy all humans". But given their MO so far, it will be done in a very orderly fashion and as unobtrusively as possible, so as not to inspire resistance, and starting with the "useless mouths". Will Moash be involved with this, I wonder? Right, but my problem is that an enjoyable major fictional villain for me, needs to have some qualities that I admire, intrigue me in some way and/or evoke a certain sympathy. This has nothing to do with potential redemption - irredeemable villains can be fully as interesting and, in fact, I feel that Sanderson needs to ease on redemption in SA a bit, lest it become meaningless. Moash fails on those counts, though, which is why I am viewing his build-up into a prominent antagonist with dismay. Moash is a consistent character, but I am really not wishing for for more from him than an occasional window into the Fused and their occupation of Alethkar. For all that Amaram was an inconsistent mess of a character, he had more potential to develop into an worthy antagonist, as his personality appeared to have more facets and he had some very intriguing connections. Particularly since he could have been a Vorin fanatic, whose goals partly overlapped with those of the protagonists, instead of yet another odiumite, whose motivations weren't sufficiently distinct from Aesudan's and Moash's and whose fall was depicted in a very perfunctory manner, even though it had potential to be a dramatic "loss of faith" kind of thing.

IIRC, Ash's eyes are weird because they very light-violet on an otherwise Makabaki-looking face. Makabaki have very few ligheyes, IIRC. Now Taln's eyes, which are dark brown, probably have a somewhat weird shape, because Dalinar noted both Heralds had odd eyes. OTOH, neither Dalinar or Amaram thought that he had "Shin" eyes in their prior PoVs when they visited him in the madhouse. Kalad means eternity in Alethi, as revealed by the translated glyphs in OB. Vasher just used to be rather pretentious in his younger days, after his first vistit to Roshar.

True, but usually there is some kind of similarity between how a Nahel spren looks like in physical realm, if they decide to show themselves and how they look in Shadesmar. And highspren don't look in the least "smoky" in PR: "What where those two spren floating nearby, shaped as small slits in the air? They separated the sky, like wounds in skin, exposing a black field full of stars". This is from chapter 98 "Loopholes". And later in the chapter a Skybreaker master sees them too and confirms that they are, indeed highspren. So, to me it it seems like the "bewildered spren made of smoke" from the Celebrant chapter is of an entirely different type of sapient spren than the highspren.

No, what I mean is this description from chapter 102 "Celebrant": "The tent was occupied by a single bewildered spren made of smoke , looking odd in a green cap and what seemed to be Horneater clothing" Ashspren are described differently, and so are mistspren sailors, for that matter. Yet this spren is clearly sapient. When I first read this I immediately thought that this was Kaza, who due to being deeply permeated by investiture over the years turned into a smokespren upon her death. But now I am not sure because of mismatched clothing. However, it may have been very cheap and all she could afford, maybe?

The thing is, once Sanderson decided that Szeth was too cool to kill for good at the end of WoR, as he initially intended, his motivations got retconned. In WoK Szeth in his PoV explained why he was following the murderous orders of his masters despite his own horror, revulsion and very clear understanding that it was wrong. It wasn't because of honor. It was because he was afraid of oblivion after death that would allegedly await him if he didn't adhere to the strictures of being Truthless. He valued his own after-life, even one of eternal torment, over lives of the hundreds of people that he has killed and tens of thousands who died as a result of chaos thereby unleashed. Kaladin called him a coward during their duel in WoR and he was right. But this wasn't a good basis for redemption, so now Szeth did it all "for honor", it seems. I kept encountering this argument in various threads and wanted to dispute it for some time, so I'll just do it here: This isn't really true. The similarities between these characters are mostly in their external circumstances, not at their core. Due to my recent re-read, I have noticed that Amaram was always a mess of character, who lacked any kind of internal consistency and was whatever was needed to provide Kaladin with challenges. I wrote about it more in the recent "Amaram" thread, but what is perinent here is that Meridas never took his promises seriously even when it would have cost him nothing (see Tien), he was not particularly addicted to the Thrill compared to normal Alethi, he was a religious fanatic, though also a very hypocritical one and he was very scholarly for one of his station. In other words, nothing like Dalinar. As to Moash, he was always very selfish and self-centered, nothing like Kaladin. All his indignation about the oppression of darkeyes was because it affected him directly. But he didn't lift a finger when he caused a beating of his good acquiantance by his refusal to speak to a captive highlord. He was angered by the dire straits of a widow with small children, but wasn't moved to help, just to feed his hatred. He also tried to kill his friends and savior, let's not forget. Yes, he helped the parshmen, but also not because he particularly cared about them as individuals, but because he wanted to maintain his illusion that singers are better than humans. Kaladin's defining characteristics are compassion, caring, loyalty to his friends. He may have gone dark, sure, but it would have played out differently. Knowing that Szeth was originally supposed to die for good at the end of WoR, I think that it is fairly likely that Eshonai became a sacrificial lamb in his stead. Not that I don't like Venli, but I liked Eshonai more... and I find that Dalinar, Szeth and Venli all 3 being repentant mass-murderers who became the first new Radiants is a bit too much.

There was also a sapient _smokespren_ in Celebrant, whom I at first believed to be what the soulcaster Kaza turned into after her suicide by changing into smoke, but the spren was too eclectically dressed to be a recent ex-human, IMHO. So yea, it looks like there are more varieties of sapient spren than just the Nahel ones.