Mandamon

Thanks for the feedback! So I think these comments show what I need to focus on most in writing--bringing out character traits. Isaac should be more upset about his father. Yep. I'll work on that. One thing I wanted to bring out in the mother's character is that she continually makes bad decisions. First she decides to change history to get her husband back, then proceeds to fly all around rather than do the most sensible thing. I think this is clear later in the story, but any suggestions on how to bring this up earlier with showing rather than telling? You're picking up the exact points that you should, but before you have all the information to see why those decisions were made... Pacing/Tension/Conflict. The 30 minute window does get used, but again, later in the book. I think I can bring that part forward to increase the tension in the first part. Hopefully that will help.

Asmodemon covered most of what I saw. I have a couple other things. I had the same problem with "Link," when I first read the name. Hard not to imagine a different hero... On both page 2 and 5, you say twice that the sword led to this situation. We don't need both hints. On pg 9, you say Ki Sain 12 times in 2 paragraphs. If it's something important, find another word to describe it or use pronouns. I skimmed the paragraph because it felt like I was getting hit on the head. ...two more paragraphs and 6 more mentions of the same word and I still don't know what it is or what it looks like, but I know what your name for it is. Is it a sword? A knife? A long fingernail? Energy? Crystal? ... The use of crystals seemed off to me too. I could only imagine the swords breaking every time they were used. Maybe give the four types of crystals different names to designate that they are special types of crystal. Explain why they are strong enough to make weapons out of or why you wouldn't just use metal. I'm willing to believe, but you have to give a plausible background, especially if you are using common names. Ultimately, I don't really like Link. Since this is a prologue, he may not be the main character. If he is the main character, he seems to have no morals and no consience at all. I'd rather side with the king and the holy man. They seemed much more interesting. Not a bad start, but I'd say this world needs a more dramatic entrance to catch my attention.

Plot-wise, I thought this was well constructed, and seems like a good start to Lyon's story. I like this better than the chapter with Coil. Even though it was longer, it felt more concise. I think it will lead better into Lyon's next segment. Conversely, Coil's first chapter was more like a prologue; the story of how he got into the watch. The new chapter has more of a late in/early out feel. Taez did provide a foil (mostly to Lyon's attempts to get her homework done), but she seemed inactive. She didn't help with the ghost, and she didn't do anything with Coz--the most important aspects of the chapter. She did subvert Lyon's truthful homework into a made up essay... I think the difference in the living location was Taez' biggest plus. I didn't think the racism was too much here, and I don't think you need to be "sensitive" when your fictional characters argue about their fictional cultures. In fact, it felt normal for a small, mixed community. A couple specifics: Pg1: "She hated conflict almost as much as she hated letting something go" -Especially in the second paragraph, it feels like you're forcing Lyon's personality. Let us see that she doesn't like conflict before you mention it. pg 2: "watching...a film of scab harden over a fresh tub of blood" -Ew? Where has she been around a fresh tub of blood? Also pg 7: "This was tasting strange bloods." -These two images were almost enough to pull me out of the story, not that I'm particuarly sqeamish. I think it was because these references were so different to the rest of Lyon's personality and the setting. Fine if you're setting something up with blood magic, but give a little warning before you throw it in there. Pg 2: "That was the proper term for those refugees from Anorst who had found themselves within the Walls of Vern, the last Kingdom of Men before the All-Die as well as their subsequent descendants now that there wasn't anywhere else to go." -Too much in one sentence. I had to read this a few times before it even started to make sense, but it sounds like important worldbuilding. Other than that, the story is interesting! I want to read more chapters and see how the story starts up.

All, Here is a rewrite of the beginning of The Best Kind of Present. I think I've addressed a lot of the concerns that came up last time. This section actually ends where the book started before...see what you think.

Tomorrow...

I have a rewrite of the beginning of The Best Kind of Present I'd like to submit for this coming week

Thanks for the feedback, late though it may be! I have yet to do reworks on this one anyway. Good ideas on the ending. I hadn't even though of applying MICE or something like that. That might clear things up a lot. I think Similarity of Position comes closest to my thoughts when writing it, but I like the other two as well. I like the frustration with people he tries to kill turning to ash...might snag that idea too! I hope to get to this one after I get through editing the Best Kind of Present, and I'll certainly repost after I edit.

I'm back from my absence in the forums...I have been reading, just not posting. Very stressful month. Anyway, I had to comment on this chapter. It has everything the last one didn't. The whole of chapters 16 and 17 seemed to be leading up to this point, where we finally get to a Shifter in action. A few points: I have to admit I cheered a little about Serissa. She was really starting to hold Rosalin back. Also glad to have Amaryllis back. She's a much more interesting character. Near the end of the chapter, I was confused by whether Hemlock actually jumped or not. Does the staircase come from where he jumped or where he landed? Where is it in relation to Rosalin? That whole part feels like a big hint, but I'm not getting it. This chapter has a good payoff to the reader and feels like the party is coming together and going to start on their adventure and do awesome things. Your action sequences read very well. The only problem is that this is comes about 50K words into the story. It's a little late. In my earlier comments, I said that the story sort of drags from chapters 8-14, and I still hold by that. All the parts with Dais and Rosalin wandering around the city bog things down. It gives opportunity for character development, but at the expense of the reader's attention. I think your beginning chapters, the ones with Black Rose, and the latest ones are really interesting. I would suggest to pare down the ones in-between to the bare bones to keep up the pace you can obviously set in the more exciting chapters. That would make a book I wouldn't be able to put down!

I like the explanation, but don't tell us here. Find a way to reveal that (or parts of that) backstory in the book. The fact that we're questioning after reading this far means not enough is hinted at yet. Give us a few hints (maybe the the Paths run in their blood, or something like that) and then say, "This is a shifter." Then when another comes up, you make some reference to the Path running through them, and the reader says, "Oho! This is a Shifter--I know what that is," even if don't really know what their powers are or what they do. Same thing with the Sappers. As I said, I like the crew, but it feels like their story is missing. They're just a cool band of people who have been plopped into the story. Have one of them mutter about how they got stuck in the city, and suddenly we can emphasis with them more. You may have done some of this and I'm not remembering. If so, that tells me the hint didn't stick out enough. I think the main thing is to have that great backstory, and then give just enough hints that your readers can piece it together as they go through the book, so it feels like, at the end, they've discovered it for themselves. Okay, enough pontificating for me... P.S. Here's a fun thing: Go look up a superhero backstory on Wikipedia. That's what too much backstory at one time looks like. Don't do that. After the fifth time Captain Thingybob comes back to life to do Whatsit to Whositman, you just start laughing. Okay, really enough now. Write more--I need to find out what happens to Black Rose!

Thanks for all the feedback! So this came out better than I hoped. As I said, this started as sort of a throw away story (which is why some things aren't researched enough), but has grown a lot bigger. Looks like I need to go back and do some heavy editing for this one to trim out the fluff, meanderings, and analogies (or metaphors). I had trouble with this ending. I knew I wanted it to be a "bad" end, but I've gone through a few rewrites and can't quite get it right. What I'm going for is 1) realizing that the sleeping had been dreaming all the people Prot met and 2) the revelation that Prot must be a lot more important than he seems, to be the only one left. Suggestions? Jack--thanks for the advice on the prison doctor. I'll go back and edit that. I was originally trying to make it so all the prisoners avoided him because they knew they would be killed if they went in there, but I think it would be fun to have him robbed blind except for a few hidden vials in the back room. This was supposed to be a little confusing...small spoiler, the guard has more than one personality. This comes in with the later stories. I'm glad you found the humor funny (that sounds strange...). Growing up with Pratchett and Adams, and even some of the jokes in serious stuff like WoT and The Belgariad, the parts that stayed with me the longest were the funny parts. I do actually read my writing out loud (to myself) when editing. It surprises me how often the little things that I tell myself readers won't pick up on are exactly the parts you complain about. Looks like I need to pay attention to that little voice... I'm editing "The Best Kind of Present" at the moment, but this one is next on the list, and now I think I should start submitting the other short stories in this series. The feedback here is great (by the way, they are all in the Dropbox folder, if anyone wants to read ahead).

Two shifters? I remember that Hemlock is a shifter, but who is the other one? Is it Chelone? His description is counter to Hemlock and I don't believe he is referred to as a Shifter. Or is it the girl (who I assume is Rosen's familiar-ish sidekick). Was it ever stated what she was? At any rate, it sounds like, from your summary sentence, that I should know who the two shifters are and I don't, which tells me some explanation is missing. I think the whole idea of who the shifters are is still pretty undefined in your story. From what I gather, they're pretty powerful and used to rule, but all I've seen Hemlock do is transform into an animal. pg 8, was Black Rose inside or outside the city when she meets the sappers? I was unsure and had to read that section again. It sounds like she's standing on top of the city wall still. Pg 9, I like that the same crew is coming back in the story, but I still don't really know anything about them aside from I like Amelanchier. If you've seen the newer Clone Wars TV series, I always think of Cad Bane (especially the voice) when Amel enters. I guess the sappers are also fighting on the battlements? You reference both saboteurs and sappers - which one (or both) are they and for who? You seem to infer that we know what they're up to by referring to them this way. Also, I know sappers can do a lot of jobs, but for some reason I always think of them in demolitions and blowing things up, so them being on top of the wall threw me for a moment. Overall, this is a good set up chapter. It feels like the plot is starting to get back on track, recovering from some of the slowness in the previous few chapters. Some sentences are pretty long, and don't have the commas required to "shore them up," so they sound like run on sentences. for example: "Without waiting for a response Black Rose jumped off the wall, the sound of the gate opening taken precedence over her landing which cracked the stone plate which made up a part of the street." Despite all the negatives, I do want to see where this story is going! I think the worldbuilding and characters are interesting and it makes me want to find out more about them.

I like the ideas and the setting. It's very different. I read over the first couple chapters as well, since I hadn't read them before. This submission is definitely better. The magic system seems a little "loose," as in it's flinging a lot of power around. You may have this in the background, but I haven't really seen any cost for the magic yet. There's also a lot of really powerful magic users, not far into the story. Are these people going to develop further during the story? Even Keth is pretty powerful, to the point where he can easily summon something to solve a problem. As an overall comment on the writing style, You use a lot of semicolons. Not a bad thing if you use them right, but it's to the point where each new one is taking me out of reading. In general, your sentence structure is a little weird, especially in the first few chapters. You have liberal commas and semicolons, and I'm not sure they're all in the right places. here's a sample sentence (from the very first page): Iraisa quickened her steps, she wanted to get out of the jungle as quickly as possible, it was a dangerous place. vs (my edit): Iraisa quickened her steps; she wanted to get out of the jungle as quickly as possible. It was a dangerous place. Another one (from near the end of this submission): ""Viv, this is more than just a bit off. Every damned cut here is in a straight line; whatever did this wasn’t a malfunction."" vs (my edit): ""Viv, this is more than just a bit off. Every damned cut here is in a straight line. Whatever did this wasn’t a malfunction."" For some reason, a semicolon in dialogue just feels strange to me. Try to say that line out loud and mean the semicolon instead of a period. You tend to infodump whenever you come to a new concept. Yes, we need to hear a small explanation, but break it up so we hear some of it later. The demon calls Keth sir? This seems at odds with the rest of the demon's insubordinate attitude. It seems like it would pick some choice epithet to call him. Or is there some reason why it's "sir?" I think this was from the first two chapters, but I got confused with MIA vs. the common abbreviation. Also Heinrich /The Grumr/ Mr. G gets pretty confusing. I think you settle on The Grumr later, but it's a rocky starting up. I want to see more of this dinosaur/magic interface--it's fun, even if there are some rough spots.

You said in another post that you write at least 10 pages a day. I have to say, it shows in sheer writing ability. Reading your writing, I get that feeling as with some books where you could keep reading, even if you had no interest in the genre or story, just because the writing is smooth. There's the occasional awkward sentence, but most of it is very well done. I'm reading the prologue right before the chapter it references, so It's kind of cheating, but I still think it does work well with the story. It gets referenced soon enough so that the prologue adds to the story. Using this place to put in some detail works too. I get a much better picture of the outpost than I did reading the whole first chapter. I like Jo's contrast between her (real) thoughts and what she says. It sets up good opportunity for later conflict. I'm also a sucker for a good old hero's journey call to action... That said, she's just starting out, so I'm eager to see what happens to her. My main problem so far is with the S.O.M. You say there's only two main characters, which I assume are Jo and Roman. It's clear the S.O.M. is some sort of antagonist. I'm thinking he shouldn't have a whole chapter this early, or at least, not the first chapter, to himself. When I was reading the first chapter, I was assuming he was the main POV. At the second chapter, I liked the switch to Roman, but now that you're adding another at least somewhat sympathetic POV, I really wonder how much is needed on S.O.M.'s point of view at this point. If he's going to be popping up in the future, I would keep his walk-ons short and to the point. Enough for the reader to get a clear view of his priorities (his wife vs. the mission) but not much more. How much is he going to add to the story? I like that you're getting into his head, but don't let him take over anything. If his viewpoints are necessary for the story to progress, then I would include him as a POV. I'm basing this judgement on just a few set up chapters (which is sort of the problem with basing judgement on a chapter at a time), so feel free to prove me wrong. I'm generally positive here, because I like the writing and the characters you've set up. I think I need to see some more of the real plot before I can make any calls on overall structure.

Hello all, This is to discuss the second part of Dreams of Dust. In the first half, Prot breaks out of his prison cell, finds out people are disappearing, has various mishaps, and finally meets a rotund and surly guard who sends him on a quest to get medicine for the mysterious "sleeper."

I wasn't trying to channel Douglas Adams specifically when I wrote this, but it's certainly the same genre of stream-of-thought bizarro stuff... I haven't read him in years, either. Doh. Haven't read Malazan yet. I usually google the titles I give things just so this doesn't come up. Guess I missed this one.

I completely agree. You should have seen the first draft... This one still needs some major work, but I've felt more for this character than some others I've written. Not sure if it's because I was writing with a strong emotion, or what. I'll have the other half up next week. I'm interested to see what people think of the end.

Okay, so I'm actually happy about the comments I got on this. It feels like I hit what I was trying to do, even if maybe what I was trying to do wasn't correct... First I'll say that I'm not trying to defend any of this...I don't think this is my best work, but I'm interested to see what response this piece gets. I tried to write on this specifically when I was frustrated or angry, simply because I don't do "negative" emotion very well. As I said, this was an excercise in me letting go and just writing, able to put in whatever I wanted. The overabundace of adjectives, and the obsession with (incorrect) analogy and metaphor was intentional. I wanted it to jolt the reader. Now if it makes you stop reading, that's probably too much... I've had readers who liked it and some who hated it. The flashbacks were meant to be along the same lines. the prison and environs are vague and chaotic, definitely ignored by the rest of the system, but it looks like I should put in some more description to place things more concretely. Yeah, I waffled over that one. I still do, whenever I look back over this. I dunno. Ambroj is built up for a reason, but for the five joined stories. If this one is read alone, I could take some of that build-up out. I think the second half ties up some of those hanging questions. For this as a stand-alone novel, you could almost characterize the happenings as magical realism or stream-of-consciousness, where things don't always make sense, but in the joined short stories, they get more of an explanation.

Count me in!

I thought of the same sort of submitting issue as James and Jack a few days ago, having just submitted the first two parts of a short novel. Luckily I had enough wrong with the early part of mine that I could extrapolate from two sessions enough to rewrite without having to submit the whole thing. I actually do like that this group focuses on things that need to be fixed in one or a few "scenes" rather than the whole length of the book. It can help a writer to shore up certain parts that he/she feels aren't going as well as the rest of the novel. As to submitting longer sections, I completely see what Silk is saying--it would take a lot of focus on a few different short works to a lot of focus on one or two large works, and with the amount of regular people here, It might be hard to even that out among us. That said, I think Yados' recent idea about workshopping outlines has a lot of potential. If a writer wants feedback on a story arc as a whole, without going into detail, maybe he/she can submit an outline for the week and let the others pick it apart for plot holes/character development/etc? Alternately, he/she could submit a magic system concept, or SciFi location, or whatnot, to look for logical consistency. I love Dropbox. I've been using that exclusively for my writing for about a year and a half now and it's a great tool. **Oh yeah, and since I'm posting in here, is there room for me to submit the second half of my short story next week? After that I'm going to take a break from sumbitting for a while to do some rewriting.

Aha! Here is all the explanation from Chapter 1 that I was missing! Unfortunately, this feels more like an infodump chapter. The first half is all thinking about "this is how the universe works" to explain to the reader. I think some of this information could be spread back to chapter 1, to make the learning curve a little lighter. After the midway point, when the infodump slows down, I much prefer the setup in this chapter to the first one. I think both are written well, but here the characters feel real and reacting to their situation. I like the concepts of the Great Roman Church and the Great Library as well. Now, in retrospect, S.O.M. felt a little stiff. I think there's also a little too much overlap in the two chapters, or maybe it's just in the wrong order. Having S.O.M. see Oti's and Roman's meeting, and THEN getting the full story sort of seems backwards. As the all-powerful reader, I like to see the setup, and then a new character reacting to something he doesn't understand. Then I get to feel superior that I know what's coming and he doesn't. Maybe it's just me... Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think this chapter (with less infodump) could come first, and then in chapter 2 we get the tension of S.O.M. deciding whether to kill these likeable characters we've just met, since Oti and Roman are a lot more sympathetic than S.O.M.. I already want them to win over him...

So I usually wait to read any comments posted until I've made my own list, just so I don't have a tainted persepective, but all the exact same points I jotted down had already been said here. James, even in your first post you noted one of the first things I wrote down, which was the stilted dilogue. So I guess my review becomes a sort of reinforcement of what's been said: Unnecessary prologue with way too many adjectives Stilted dialogue Uninteresting main POV (Aiden) A couple other points I saw were: Comma usage. It seemed like there were commas left out, especially in dialogue. There were several other instances like this. One other thing that caught my eye was Maybe it's just the wording, but can't there only be one firstborn per family (I guess barring twins, though even there one is born first...)? I would also agree that you should put a flashback from 23 years ago as a prologue. It would give us a lot more to care about when the marriage/trason subject comes up. At the risk of sounding snooty, if you're discovery writing and you're only on chapter 6, I would suggest writing until you think you have about half the book. Then look back. At that point you should be able to tell a lot better what parts are not needed for the story so far, what's redundant, and what looks like it adds to the narritive. At that point, the overall outline will begin to come together in your head. I already noticed the adjective use went way down after the prologue, and chapter 2 is definitely better than chapter 1, so it seems like you're on the right track.

You say there's no sexual content, but I sort of agree with James on this one. While nothing is overt so far, I think this would definitely be ranging to the upper YA area with a first chapter topless reference, and with the obvious relationship between Coil and Hael. That part sort of felt forced to me. Maybe it's just that they're already on the "L" word in the first chapter, rather than developing their relationship. YA is all about relationships growing, not about ones that are already formed. If Coil and Hael are already together, where do they have to go in a relationship except toward the sexual? Ok--you can have them grow as people, but that misses out on the "falling for someone", which I always find is the best part. In the YA I've read, even if two characters know they're going to get together, the plot is still about them finding out how to have a relationship. As to the macro/story part, I liked it. Setup, tension, characters, and dialogue were all good. It feels like you took time to plot things out well. Some more nitpicky things: The setting was a little light. I wasn't sure where the characters were in the circle vs. where the attack was coming from. There's a wall, there's a village (that they've all lived in their whole life, I gather), but is the wall right there, in case arrows coming is a BIG threat, or is the village a little ways off and the wall can hold things off for a while? I also felt your early hook contradicted the later story. Coil was going to fight a girl, then you turn it around and the girl is a nutso who's going to knock his teeth in. Great, except he knew this person as a little girl? Everyone else knows she's psycho? Most of these people seem to come from the same place in childhood, so how dense is he? Usually girls like that have a reputation that precedes them. This ties back in with the setting. If I know how far the Watch is from where people live, it becomes more reasonable for him not to know about Irna, and for him not to even know how to make a fist, when these people obviously have some pretty real threats facing them on a daily basis.

Thanks for even more feedback! By now, I'm certain I need to rewrite this... And I think starting with the conflict (duh) might be a better choice. This was, perhapps, the only one thing that I didn't like in the whole story -- as well a few similar lines. For me this broke the flow of the story though I still think you can add breaks if you want but I would put them in the scene rather then breaking the narrative. I feel like I should address this, as it seems to be the most hated part. I threw this in sort of on a whim in a very late edit, but it obviously messes up the flow of the story pretty badly! Originally it was just Isaac relating in his journal, but the discussion with Plato got very technical on Forms and Ideals, and I thought it would be way past his age limit to decode and report on. Anyway, this will be the first thing to go... Sophie's World: I've heard of this before but never read it. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the tip!

Same here. I've got a couple "complete" books and a couple concepts that don't seem right yet. I'd love to get some input

Hello all, This is the first half of a short story I wrote to take a break from other things and just give myself free reign. It's a little cruder, so I tagged it with [L] and [V]. Just interested to see what people think of this. I actually wrote a set of five of these short stories that are interconnected, but each of them can stand alone, until the final one.