Brightlord M. Alhstrom

Hey! Looking forward to the September meeting. Turns out I'll be spending a semester at BYU before going on a mission.

Yea. I still stand by my choice as a Radiant if I'm in-world, but if Feruchemist was an option, and it was in the real world, I would totally choose Feruchemist. But then, I would mostly just want to copperminds. I mean, a full feruchemist, with training and some stored up abilities would be able to turn the tides of almost any battle. I mean, Sazed, (who isn't a warrior) was able to fight Inquisitors for a short period of time, as well as hold a gate against a horde of Koloss for a long time. The only reason I choose Radiant is that as a Feruchemist, unless you figured out worldhopping, you'd be spending your entire life running from TLR. Plus, the whole "Honor" thing appeals to me. Edit: As for the whole Vin is too OP to count as turning a battle, lets remember that all of the Mistborn we had seen before then didn't have Duralumin, or a bunch of other metals. A mistborn with access to all 16 metals would be able to turn the tides against any army, Hazekiller or not. Especially with Bendalloy and Pewter. And even just assassinating generals would be enough to demoralize and confuse an army enough to turn the battle. History tends to say that when a general dies, his army has very little chance to pick itself up and win. All in all, one of the reasons Vin was so much more powerful than her counterparts was that A, she was a double seeker (hemalurgy) and B, she had Duralumin. Take those two things away, and most any mistborn with proper training would be a match for her. As for her killing TLR, she was burning mist at the time, so I don't think it counts.

...... I put in Twinborn, then realized you didn't mean a fullborn (a la Lord Ruler), but a misting+ferring. My answer would depend: Do I end up in the world I choose, or an I still in the modern world? - Modern world: Definitely go Twinborn with a Cadmium Allomancy and Copper Feruchemy. - Cosmere: Knight Radiant. Even if Mistborn end up being more powerful, I much prefer the more direct attitude of a Radiant than the stealthy and deceptive Mistborn Assassin type. And if I could choose my order: Bondsmith.

I wonder if stealing Selish abilities through Hemalurgy would be one solution to the location dependency. Maybe with Hemalurgy in the mix, using different investitures would become easier?

@Con578 Nice Job! First off, Vasher is Zahel. Can't remember if we have a WoB supporting it, but the theories surrounding that are strong enough that it's taken as a fact on this Forum. As for Elhokar and Gaz, they have been mentioned as possible future Radiants quite often as well. I don't have links right now, but @The One Who Connects, @Calderis and @Extesian should be able to reference almost anything on that. Also, You may want to learn how to use the quote function in your posts. It makes it a lot easier to tell the difference between a passage or a WoB, and your comments. For example:

Yep! Thanks for the save. Just that he says we have seen Hemalurgy off Scadrial, but we also know that there are Kandra worldhoppers, and we suspect that the "hairpin" in Mraize's hideout is in fact a hemalurgical spike. This is just to try and confirm that when he said "Hemalurgy" he meant people who are under the influence and benefit of Hemalurgy.

17. Have we seen a human (and I don't count Kandra here) off Scardial who is spiked by a hemalurgically charged spike? 18. In Warbreaker, is there a hemalurgically charged spike piercing Tonk Fah body? (If yes) Is it charged with the Feruchemical ability of a Pewter Ferring? 19. Have any of the Heralds been spiked with a hemalurgically charged spike? 20. Do you have a good term to differentiate between the two meanings of "spiking" someone? Spiking someone through the heart to hemalurgically charge a spike, and Spiking someone with a previously charged hemalurgical spike to give them an ability. Is there a term for when you are doing so to transform someone (say into a Koloss?)

Well, I'm not sure this is an issue. Notice how the "Insane" heralds are the ones who chose not to go back to Damnation. And even if a Herald were to die, what would stop Odium from re-spiking him. And I'm wondering what other explanations you guys have for the Quote about Talanel'Elin, and the words being fed to him.

So, this is going to be a half baked theory, and I'm not nearly familiar enough with WoK or WoR to really support it, as I don't have the books yet, but here it goes anyways: We have WoB saying that we have seen Hemalurgy used on other worlds than Scadrial. (If you want more, see this thread) But he makes it sound like we shouldn't be able to find it. Another Nurse Worldhopper? Anyways, I started thinking about how you'd go about finding a hemalurgically spike individual, and what came to mind was the insanity and "voices" that were the biggest hints at spiked individuals on Scadrial. But I wasn't sure. After all, Ruin is now a part of Harmony, and i don't think Harmony would make people go insane. However, what if the back door could also be accessed by other Shards? Thus, if another shard became aware of Hemalurgy, they could replicate what Ruin was doing with Penrod, Spook and Quellion. That's when it hit me: The Heralds went to Damnation, were tortured, and came back insane. Theories are all about Odium breaking them to start desolations. But what if Odium became aware of Hemalurgy, and started spiking heralds. He would intermingle the spiking with other forms of torture so that people might not notice that he was leaving metal needles in their bodies. I'm not sure if he took complete control (like with Inquisitors) or just opted for a couple spikes and a voice in their head. Think I'm bogus? Take a look at this quote: I'm sure there are others. But for now, i just wanted to get these ideas down.

When searching for hemalurgically spiked individuals, it might be worth looking for people who hear voices, have conversations with themselves, or are insane/think they are insane.

Yea, Tonk was actually my first thought when thinking of a spiked individual outside Scadrial. And that passage about the bulging muscle makes it especially suspicious. However, just one thing to keep in mind when hunting spiked individuals: On Scadrial, spiked individuals often thought they were insane, or "heard voices". That might have changed now that Harmony is around, but I'm not sure. Can anyone think of individuals who seem to have conversations with themselves, or show any other signs of hearing voices or insanity? Edit: This made me think a little, and I actually came up with a theory:

It might just be a basic law of the universe. Like conservation of matter, or of opposite reactions. It could be that the nature of having investiture that is kept in the SR, or really a bunch of things. And why have laws at all? Because the world would be way too fluid otherwise. Thats why gravity, energy and matter exists. Because there are laws governing them, laws that even a shard has to obey, because that's how the world works. As for the champions, here is my guess: When two shard clash directly, you often get splinters, or the very least a dead vessel. Sometimes even on both sides (Vin and Ruin), which might be based on how each shard has approximately the same amount of investiture to draw from. Where a Champion comes in is that Champions require less investiture, and there is relatively no danger to the actual shard. So, you might have situations where two shards have a fight over something, but neither want to risk their lives. So they agree to leave it up to their champions. And somehow the agreement is binding, forcing them to keep to the terms (like limited involvement, or giving the prize). Maybe something similar to swearing on the River Styx in greek mythology.

While I think that they will definitely standardize their measuring system, I'm not sure it will be a decimal one (10 millimeter in a centimeter, 10 decimeter in a meter, etc). They might even keep a system related to the British one (feet and inches), just standardized like the Americans have it. Or we might see a base-16 system adopted universaly (that could be really cool) because of how 16 is such an important number on Scadrial, in which case their "metric" system would follow a base-16 model, with 16 millimeters in a centimeter, etc, though with different names. However, we have to realise that just because something would make more sense in the actual universe, if it makes the book hard to understand, then i doubt Brandon will use it. So me might just see a decimal system anyways. As for plot line wise, how it would happen? I suspect that worldhopping merchants might be the ones who do it, as they have much more of a need for a standardized measuring system. I suspect that a bunch of them will need in Sliverlight, make two systems (one for PR one for CR), then will each go to their respective worlds and work together to get it adopted throughout the cosmere.

Especially if you look closely at this WoB: Notice how he mentions Cremlings side by side with Larva? This makes me suspect that Cremlings (in their various types) are the Larva stage of the many greatshells and greatshell related species. So, take that into account, and you might get this: You have a family of species that are all crustacean, with larva, cocoon and adult stages. In all of them, at least the adult form requires a spren bond to survive. The people of Roshar don't necessarily realize that the adult stages actually have larva stages, and as such, the larva stages are (wrongly) classified as a different type of species. Thus you have the Cremling larva, and the Greatshell adults, though there are some larva that people don't think of as cremlings (like the larkin) and some adults that people don't think of as greatshells (take the axehound for example). Now, this is where it gets creepy. The various crustacean species' adult stages are all bonded to harmless spren, as a default, however, there are times and stages where that bond is broken and another one is made. And there are various desolationspren that can also form bonds with the various crustacean species, changing their bodies and abilities, in a similar way to the Listener's form changing. Thus, all of the crustacean species, while in their adult forms, are potential voidbringers. Potential species of the crustacean/viodbringer family: Axehounds, Skyeels (maybe), Larkin/Lanceryn, the different cremlings, Chasmfiend, Chull, Sarpenthyn (again, maybe) and Lurg.

So ..... The Aons existed before people discovered them, and they discovered the meaning of the Aons (or gave the Aons meaning) based on what the result of the Aon was? Like, Ehe is the symbol for fire because it makes a column of flame. So, it almost looks like the Aons didn't start out as a language, the people just adapted the symbols of AonDor as a language, choosing meanings for the various Aons.

Oh boy, please no! Those two are awesome enough on their own. Combine them and people will never pay attention to anyone else. They'll just cry out for more Hoidblood scenes.

Are we sure about that? I'm fairly sure that at least Aon Dor (as a language) existed before the splintering of Devotion and Dominion, so it could be posible that the shards had an influence in the languages, which is why the land and the languages are connected. Though I do think your idea has a lot of merit (i actually really like it) I'd like to get a bit more backing (WoB style preferably) before jumping on the band wagon.

OK. that takes out the theory that they aren't in their adult form. However, the wacky theory still stands: The cocoon is the 2nd stage. The Chasmfiend is the 3rd stage. That or the two stages are reversed and the cocoon is the 3rd and final stage (unlikely but possible I guess.) Here is what I think: The 2nd stage (cocooned) is a non-bonded stage. Because of the extra strength of the cocoon, they don't get crushed by their own weight, despite the absence of the gravityspren. The 3rd stage is a bonded one, typically with gravityspren or a related spren. And as seasons pass and they age, they revert from the 3rd stage to the 2nd, then back again (unless killed while cocooned). While cocooned, the bond breaks or dissolves, and a new one forms, allowing for a desolationspren to form a bond now that the everstorm is here. Thus the chasmfiend is the adult stage, but the adult stage can have multiple forms, similarly to Parshendi. The difference is that since Chasmfiend need specific types of spren to survive in a non-cocoon state, so it only really has 2-3 forms, and since the everstorm is recent (at least in this specific cycle of history), then the default gravityspren form is the only one we have seen so far. But there might also be a thunderclast (or other voidbringer) form hiding if the proper bond is formed. If any of you guys want to debate this though, we should probably make a new thread.

Can I have a WoB or other canon source backing that? And if so, could he be storing stormlight in gems and bringing it around with him to replace the breath a week requirement of his Returned status?

I agree. Most of this was just an idea I wanted to bounce around. Though we also don't know much about how greatshells grow or much about their larva/cremilng state (the cremling state reference is drawn from the WoB above). It could be that part of the change from larva to greatshell is bonding a spren, and thus now that the everstorm is there, you might start having greatshell who are bonded with desolationspren instead of their usual spren. Or it could be that greatshells aren't their final form. Their true adult form might be a desolation form, with their spren being replaced. Just to get wackier: We know that Chasmfied will come onto the plateaus and cocoon. i can't remember if normally they just stay like that, or eventually break out again and stay as chasmfiend. But it could be possible that while they are cocooned, they no longer have a spren bonded. They would need the cocoon to make sure that they don't get crushed under their own weight. Thus, now that the everstorm is here, when they enter into their cocoon state, they could bond with a desolationspren instead of their usual spren and come out as Voidbringer/Desolation creatures.

Notice how I never actually say chasmfiends. I just mention greatshell. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is a type of desolationspren that would have characteristics that would replace the gravity effects that chasmfiend require. Actually, if Thunderclasts do animate stone, then they'd need stormlight to do it, which would explain why Chasmfiend need those huge gemstone hearts. Though that is still extremely unlikely.

You know, that seems almost like a wiggle out. I'm not saying that dead greatshells become Thunderclasts. I'm saying that it might be possible that if certain specific spren bonded to the greatshells, they might become monstrous destroyers who are part of the Voidbringers/Desolations. Kinda how if certain spren bond with the Parshendi, then they atain stormform, which I consider to be part of the Voidbringers/Desolations. Brandon only talks about Thunderclast, and doesn't actually say that they are made of stone, he says that Thunderclast animate stone. Makes me think that that is some sort of ability they have, similar to how you can soul-cast stuff into or out of stone. Note how it says "are animating" not "are animated". At the top right corner, where you see your name, click on that. "Account Settings" should be an option. Then you should see a section for your signature on the bottom Left.

@ElephantEarwax Not that I know of. However, Arcanum Unbounded has an entry about the Selish system that does mention that because of the way magic on Sel is based on the CR instead of the SR, intent and forms are much much more important with Selish magic, to the extent where language and words become a part of it. it almost makes it sound like the magic derived from the different languages.

This might already be common knowledge, but is this a hint that cremlings are "larva" of some form of greatshell? PS: Is there a theory about Greatshells being the Parshmen equivalent of Voidbringers anywhere? Dormant monsters hiding in plain sight style?

One last thing in rebuttal: If Miles had a shard powering him, I don't think he would have "run out". He would have been able to stay there indefinitely. Shards directly influencing things can do a LOT. I'm not saying that a shard other than Ruin or Preservation could have fueled Miles, I'm saying that if it was possible, and a shard had done it, miles wouldn't have died. What purpose would a shard have in keeping someone alive for just a couple extra minutes? Unless it was the speech, but I find that unlikely.