Brightlord M. Alhstrom

I'm not sure they exist. I feel like the Shu-Dereth religion is probably based loosely on human's perception of what actually happened with the splintering of the shards, but I'm not sure. I also think that a ton of the Shu-Dereth religion is probably just straight up false. So, the Svrakiss might be based on folk stories of the Skaze right after the splintering of Dominion, or maybe even on Odium himself during that battle. Or it could be for the same reason that almost all religions have some enemy or demon/devil. It might just be something that the priests threw in to scare their congregations into obedience. So, all that to say that I don't think the Svrakiss are real.

Yea, as far as I know, the God Beyond gets his name from the fact that he exists in whatever realm souls go to after they die. The "Beyond" if you will. That was mostly explored in MBSH if I remember correctly.

So, maybe the entire Cosmere's dwarf star cluster is on or near the event horizon of one of the maxed out black holes? The "maxed out" part means that the star cluster is fine, while also being close enough to the black hole to get the time effects. And entire multi-epic universe happening in the event horizon of a black hole. Wow would that be cool.......

Well, I'd have to check up, but I'm fairly sure I saw something in either HoA or MBSH where it said that when someone ascended they got an instinctive knowledge of the shard's capability and history, as well as other things about how shards work. So I think that Raoden would have a pretty good chance of A. knowing that he should hide, and B. knowing how to hide. Also, although there are worldhoppers who would go around Sel, they wouldn't do it too often since the Sellish CR is supposed to be dangerous, and over the centuries between Elantris and the other cosmere works, Raoden would have had time to learn how to better hide. Yea, a few worldhoppers might notice during that time, particularly those who have expertise in Shards (ie Khriss) but that doesn't mean that it would be widely known.

Well, that is a good point, but it still doesn't satisfy me. If a shard really wanted to hide, then I think he'd be able to do a pretty good job. There might be a difference, and they might notice it, but would someone taking up the splintered pieces of the shard be their explanation? They might be puzzled, but eventually they'd come to another conclusion. Or maybe they didn't. Maybe they know that Benevolence exists, they just also have an incentive in making sure the news doesn't get out to Odium or other threats.

@Toaster Retribution I have a theory to counter that. For the Dor magic on Sel to continue working after someone takes up Benevolence, two things would have to happen: 1. Benevolence would have to continue to be spread out across the cognitive realm. I suspect that because of the nature of the shattering of the shards, it's connection to the SR might have been severed. Thus if someone took up the shard, they might not have the ability to see everywhere in an eyeblink. They might need to physically (or cognitively) spread themselves out to allow themselves to see and/or affect events in the rest of the world. Maybe a similar process to the mist in Mistborn. We might be dealing with a crippled Shard who doesn't know how to (or maybe can't) heal himself. and 2. Benevolence would have to be willing to let the powers continue. I think that considering the intent of the shard, this might very well be the case. Dominion involves having and gathering power. Devotion implies expending what power you have towards a cause. Considering the "goodness" Raoden saw in people, I'd combine those two as Benevolence, which I think might include allowing people to draw on his power as in the past. Or maybe he doesn't have the choice. Either way, I don't think that the fact that the Dor still works is a sign that no one has ascended. Especially if Raoden realizes that someone shattered Dominion and Devotion in the first place and that he'd better hide the fact that he still exists until he finds a way to fix himself so that Odium doesn't come back to splinter him again. Then he might take up the power, only to have it act like it always did. Now, all of this is a stretch, I agree, but I've had fun discussing and debating it. I agree that it's unlikely, but I still think it is possible.

Facts before guessing. Checking before assuming.Reason before conclusion. I'm not sure what order my theoryspren is tied to. Any help would be nice. Just take a look at my latest theory (It's about Raoden as a vessel for Benevolence). It's a loose one, but it has potential. I eventually did some more reading and tore some of it apart myself, but I was still willing to throw out a loose theory just because of how cool it could be. So, that leaves me with 6 potential orders, and my spren really is confusing me. BTW, once I find my proper order, I'll start figuring out what my order's oaths/ideals are.

I think he was a nearly all-powerful but imperfect being, almost like the shards are, but 16 times more powerful, and not so single minded in purpose (as in he doesn't just seek after hate or honor). But I'm not sure that there were other power's out there than Adonalsium.

Hey everyone! Thanks for the feedback. Really need to update the theory now that I've read the book. First off, I'm going to split this into two parts: What were the Dor attacks? Up till now I was saying that that was the Dor trying to make Raoden a vessel. After finishing Elantris (including Chapter 49) I don't think that's completely accurate anymore. But I have a backup theory which I will add shortly. What are the chances that Raoden eventually becomes the vessel for Benevolence? This is really what the Theory was about, and even though it's main point (see above) falls apart, I think it still has merit. So, to address the first question: It eventually becomes clear that when Raoden finally used the Dor, a buildup of energy released and the attacks ended. That kinda breaks what I was saying. I think that using the Dor attracts the energy towards your location in the CR. Thus as Raoden was "building up" the Dor, it was coalescing around him. It's nature means that it was trying to escape. Now there are two reasons why I think the built up power might have attacked him: - The obvious one: It was trying to take any path out, and Raoden was an opening due to his connection to it's power, and to his usage of Aons. Pros: Simple answer. Cons: Then why wasn't Galladon attacked? Maybe because Raoden was like a lightning rod? Just a bit "higher" and a more likely target? - The complex one: The Shard is shattered, and can't get a vessel, but since the Shard itself was just a piece of a whole already that implies that pieces of Adonalsium - whether full 16th (Shards) or smaller pieces (shattered pieces of shards) - all try to find vessels, regardless of their size. So maybe the individual pieces of the shards that were in Raoden's location in the CR started uniting a little, and tried to make him their vessel. But when he used AonDor, those pieces (or their Investiture) escaped through the Aon, and thus stopped trying to meld with him. This might be why the shard can't be made whole. You'd have to travel around gathering the pieces, but using the Dor uses up the pieces nearest you, and only a Dor-user can gather pieces, Ergo, a Dor user would have to choose to stop using the Dor to gather the pieces. At the same time, this passage makes me wonder how shattered the Dor is: And question two: There were three main arguments toward's Raoden taking up Benevolence after Elantris: 1. It was trying to meld with Him (see question above). Pretty much falls apart. If you use the complex explanation above however, it might kinda apply. It's just really hard because of the sheer size of the surface area you'd have to cover to get enough investiture to ascend. However, it might still support the follow point: 2. Raoden seemed to embody both Dominion and Devotion. He had power over the Elantrians, and was completely devoted to them, then to the Aons once they were fine. After becoming the (returned) Elantrian King, again, he had Dominion (control) but once again he was Devoted instead of selfish. The annotations really seem to pound this in. 3. The Sel portion of the CR becomes safe enough for both Hoid (and later Galladon, and probably some IRE members as well) to travel through without dying. I'm fairly sure there is a WoB somewhere that says that some of the IRE members from Secret History came from Sel after the shattering. Probably some who came after the return of Elantris too. I'm taking this to mean that something happens to the shattered pieces, and it could very well be someone's ascension. So, the case is much weaker, but I think there is still potential there. Especially since Brandon specifically mentions the duality of Raoden's personality, and how he mention similar things in MBSH around Kelsier's personality, Vin's personality, as well a Sazed's personality. It sounds like the intent of someone personality needs to align with the Intent of a Shard for there to be an easy ascension.

Really wacky theory, and probably wrong, but hear me out. First off, "Benevolence" is the name I am giving to the Shard that would come of a combination of Dominion and Devotion. Came up with the name when hearing Raoden describe himself as a dictator. He is a dictator and a tyrant, embodying Dominion in his control of New Elantris, at the same time, his people love him, and not only does he devote himself to them, he teaches them to devote themselves to their work to escape the pain, thus also embodying Devotion. Best way to describe this to me would be a Benevolent Dictator. Let me know if you have a better name for a combination of Dominion and Devotion (Kinda like how Harmony is the name of Ruin+Preservation). Part two of the theory. Haven't looked this up too much, so it might already be accepted knowledge, but here you go. Odium shattered both Dominion and Devotion. This destroyed their consciousnesses, as well as locking their power in the cognitive realm, in a shattered form. I am assuming that this is what is making travel in Sel's area of Shadesmar dangerous; the shattered power of a shard is searching for purpose and is quite volatile. The Dor is in fact the collection of Devotion and Dominion's power, stuck in the cognitive realm and trying to escape. Something in the shattering also stops it from reforming a consciousness, though I'm not sure if that is by keeping it apart (shattered) or it is through some other means. However, I think it is safe to assume that Dominion and Devotion are united as a single power now, almost like a shattered Harmony might be. Part three has to do with Raoden's Dor attacks. For reference, he is the relevant part of Chapter 37: Here, he feels the Dor, as this vast power, making worlds seem insignificant. However, there are a couple lines I'd like to call attention to. First "without crack". To me this seems to say that the shattered pieces aren't separated physically. No, to me it seems to say that something is keeping the sentience of the shards shattered and unformed (thus the "It was not evil, or even sentient." line), while the power is somewhat whole and unite in the Cognitive realm, even if it is volatile and dangerous. A shard's power tends to try and find a host, preferably one that can actually hold the shard (ie has a similar character to it's ideal). To me it seems like Raoden is the first person who is both an Elantrian (read, connection to the Dor) and the odd mix of both Devotion and Dominion's intents. This annotation from Elantris' 31st chapter would seem to confirm this: With a bit of twisting, those two traits could be seen as Dominion and Devotion. Seems suspicious that Brandon would use the term "two defining traits" if intent plays such a big part in Shard lore and mechanics. So, what I think is happening is that the Dor is trying to find a host, but something that Odium did when shattering it is stopping it. And any attempt to absorb the shard is extremely painful to the host, due to a lingering shattering effect from Odium to stop a new host or due to the volatility of the current state of the Dor. Also, for some reason, being a fallen elantrian allows the Dor to try and take you as a host, assuming you have the connection required. If there ever was another Elantrian who, like Raoden, had the character to hold the Dor, then they have perished and been forgotten by the time Raoden becomes an elantrian. All that to say, I think that Raoden, after becoming settled as an Elantrian wouldn't have given up his passion with understanding the Dor. And that it would keep trying to take him. Maybe as a full elantrian, the effects would be different than pain, but I don't know. Regardless, Raoden would figure it out, and would eventually take on the power of both Dominion and Devotion, becoming the shard Benevolence. Other points: Somehow the Cognitive realm becomes safe enough for travel some time after Elantris, as Galladon finds his way to Roshar. It would make sense if someone has taken in all of that volatile power. The Dor attacks was one of the unresolved mysteries of Elantris. Why was it important to the plot? Just so there was urgency to Raoden after the bands joined? (as per the annotations.) I don't think so. The Dor attacks seem too well thought out. To me it smells like a strand of a Cosmere level plot. Something to lead into a sequel. The "glowing" during the Dor attacks would seem similar to the description of Vin right before her body melted away. In fact, here is another passage from Elantris which almost says this. It's when Raoden gets attacked by the Dor during a conversation with Sarene: So, there you go. My theory is that some time after Elantris (maybe in a sequel) Raoden takes up the mantle of the shattered power of both Dominion and Devotion, becoming a shard who's intent is very similar to that of a benevolent dictator. Thus the name Benevolence. Edit: Thanks to @The One Who Connects for catching that I wrote Domination instead of Dominion a couple times.

OK, scarp my previous theory. I'm currently re-listening to Elantris, and I have a new theory. The Dor attacks come from the Dor trying merge with Raoden. To me this sounds a LOT like how I picture a shattered shard. Non-sentient, but still having a drive. And yet huge and powerful. And also contained. I think that over time as the shattered pieces of Dominion and Devotion started to gather back together, they formed the Dor. A single entity with a ton of Investiture, and no will, no sentience. I think that the "shattering" of a shard doesn't stop it from gathering so much as from forming or accepting a sentience, a shareholder if you will. But it still tries. The Dor is trying to make Raoden into a shard. Thing is, either something Odium did to the shards' powers or the fact that Raoden in a fallen Elantrian is making the process so painful that he is refusing and pushing away the shard. The pain that he felt was no longer just the pain of his wounds, it was the pain of an attempted merger with a shard, coming to him over and over. The reason why it didn't do it before is because he wasn't an Elantrian before. And the reason why its him is because he is the only Elantrian who is giving people purpose (Devotion) while also dominating (Dominion) the people around him. He is the first Elantrian (person connected to the Dor) who embodies both halves, both shards, that make up the Dor. And I think that in a sequel we might see Raoden find a way to merge completely with the Dor. It would be a genius way for Brandon to setup Raoden's assention without giving it away. Disguise it as part of an Elantrian's pain.

Welcome to the forum! Have an upvote! As far as I can tell, other than being both based on martial arts and fighting, not much. It looks like ChayShan I'd a way to unlock and access the Dor (or Investiture), and we pretty much know that Kaladin's access to his power (or Investiture) doesn't require dancing with a spear.

@Inner Delysium Welcome to the 17th Shard! Have an upvote and don't trust the cookies! Hoid is amazing. He shows up in almost all of the Cosmere stories. And no, as far as we know he isn't immortal. He can be killed, and some WoB (words of Brandon) make it sound that he survives from century to century by fast forwarding time, so it looks like he might age too, if much slower. Have fun searching around for more Hoid theories, though be careful of spoilers.

Honestly, as a mercenary I could see some of that stuff happening, but starting a full on war, and on the scale he was doing it? You don't hire on as a mercenary to do that unless you have your own reasons for wanting a war. I don't see one of the 5 scholars, who is also a returned, an amazing duelist, and one of the most accomplished awakeners to have ever lived, would stoop so low as to follow orders for a small fortune (Small by an immortal's standards that is). No, I find it much more likely that he already had plans, but figured to get "hired" to do them as well, to give him more tools, money, and excuses. Maybe I'm wrong, and he isn't quite that big. However, if he had been left unstopped, his actions would still have lead to almost as much suffering as Gavilar's did. To me that is enough reason to despise him.

Hurt Aviar; heal Forging AonDor - 1 HP Allomancy - 13 HP Feruchemy - 22 HP Hemalurgy - 13 HP Surgebinding - 13 HP Forging - 15 HP Sand Mastery - 10 HP Awakening - 12 HP Aviar - 14 HP

Fair enough. Sorry, its been a while since I've had my hands on Stormlight archives.

From Kaladin to Rillir to Roshone. Honestly, it looks way too much like she was being an opportunistic. One such switch might fly as "she didn't have a choice", but two?

Theopolis came to mind. Denth definitely needs to be on that list. True, he isn't quite as obviously despicable as Tonk, but he was also trying to spread misery on a much grander scale. A lot of the arguments against Gavilar would apply to Denth. Laral. Honestly. You all dis Roshone? What about the girl half his age who courts his son, then courts him once his son dies. Might find more later.

Considering that there will be a couple different abbreviations for the same term, you might want to keep that there. Specially with the metals. An example: MBSH could also be M:SH or MB:SH. And I second the suggestion that the abbreviations be ordered in alphabetical order. BTW, if any Admins see this, it might be worth making this a sticky thread eventually. And maybe not just in this Cosmere Theories section.

There is an alternate version of your 4. Harmony tries to balance the ruin and preservation that exists in the world. If there is an earthquake, then he will make the buildings stronger, so they are partially ruined, partially preserved. If something has stood for thousands of years however, he might send an earthquake to shake things up a bit, but not completely. Thus if some entity wee to start trying to ruin things, he would have more actions towards preservation than ruin. On the other hand if things never change, he might shake things up.

Hey! So, I've seen quite a few references to Dragonsteel, especially in posts about Hoid. And although I know it isn't published, it would seem that some people on the forum have read it. Is there a place where I can get my hands on a copy of some of these unfinished/unpublished Cosmere works?

@Extesian, Aww...... That's too bad. I'm surprised that in all the questions that people have been asking Brandon about Aslydin being the Nurse, they have all be referring to her as the "Terriswoman worldhopper" never by her actual name. I assumed that meant it hadn't been confirmed. Well, another classic example of 17th shard over-complications don't you think? Though it does connect how Aslydin was doing medical work in HoA and was a nurse in Warbreaker, which is awesome.

Unless one of the shards we have seen is doing it, be we haven't noticed. Maybe Cultivation? Kinda seems like something along that alley. And Harmony is doing it, in a way... Maybe as Harmony becomes more and more aware of the whole plot, he will realize that the only way to really attain harmony in the world is by reuniting the Shards.

Welcome to the Site! Have an Upvote! Don't trust the cookies! Might I recommend Elantris for your next read once you are done the Mistborn ones?

Has anyone considered that Hoid might be a shard? A shard who somehow managed not to get tied down to a single planet, who found a way to condense all of his shardness into a single humanoid body, and has since been trying to grab pieces of the investiture of the other Shards? I know we have a WoB that says that he isn't quite a sliver, but he also seemed to imply that he isn't quite not a sliver. This might be completely off the mark, but it could be cool: One of the Worldhoppers we all follow is actually a Shard. Lets keep in mind two things: There is a shard who is simply trying to survive. And there is a shard that isn't tied to a planet.