alder24

We don't know, but per this WoB they aren't part of the Oathpact, they just represent it in a philosophical way. Honorblades were a gift. Regular? They were kings, scholars, or generals - they were the most important among humanity. Only Taln wasn't. OB ch 38: And they were the ones responsible for breaking something - starting Desolations I guess. RoW ch 47: I suspect Honorblades were given to them before Oathpact was created - Ishar was the one who forged it, he had to have the power to do that, he needed an Honorblade for this. There was already a Desolation going on, maybe it was given to them in response to Singers switching sides? Maybe it was given to them earlier, when they arrived on Roshar as a gift to help humanity settle in their new homes? Or maybe it was given to them when the Oathpact was made, only because they had to fight with Fused for some time, to help humanity restore their strength, to kill as many Fused as possible before going to Braize. This is because once Heralds departure to Braize, humans had to kill all remaining Fused and Regals on Roshar to send them back to Braize - and for that humans have to be strong enough. Heralds with Honorblades take pressure off humanity. So it still makes sense to give them Honorblades, even if Honor wasn't expecting Heralds to break. We don't know and it's hard to speculate.

Wait, what? So did Shallan kill Chana with Testament, or did Testament run away before she did that? I'm assuming you meant Testament disappeared after Chana was killed, not before. And why would Chana's Honorblade be in Shinovar if she was bonded with it? In Shinovar Honorblades are held by guardians, bonded to them - there is no way for Chana's Honorblade to remain in Shinovar while she's bonded with it, she had to have it with her, dismissed if Shallan didn't use it to kill Chana. Otherwise Shins would have just reclaimed it using Ishar's Honorblade to break the bond. Shins not only protect their Honorblades, but use them and train with them. SA5 Szeth flashback 1: And while a Herald dies with their Honorblade, it doesn't appear near their corpse, it goes with them to Braize immediately. No, Honorblades aren't part of the Oathpact, they just represent it. They go back to Braize with Heralds because of their bond, but the bond with an Honorblade is separate from the Oathpact. That's not an argument, it's a fallacy. We don't know why the safe was built, you can't claim it was built to hide the Honorblade and use it as an argument for your theory. If your theory is right, then we know why the safe was made, but because we don't know why yet, you can't claim it's an argument. For all we know she could have built it to store her jewelry. It's not "she made it therefore this theory is true," it's "if the theory is true, then we know why she made it." Yes, Heralds can do more with their Honorblades, but only one person can be bonded with it anyway. No, it didn't happen because Jezrien wasn't bonded with his Honorblade anymore - he broke his bond at Aharietiam. Moash was bonded with his blade at that time. There was no bond between Jez and his Honorblade when he died. Only one person can be bonded with any Shardblade or Honorblade at the time. One blade, one bond.

I guess we know too little to dismiss that possibility. It might be possible. The important question is can a spren trapped in a gemstone establish new connections with something outside of that gemstone? We don't know it, for me it seems unlikely. However I wouldn't say that the Stormfather doesn't pay much attention to his visions, I disagree with it. He's responsible for sending and ending them, he knows what's happening in them, he knows their meaning to some degree. The moment Lift spoke in Dalinar's vision, the Stormfather became aware she's there somehow - the moment BAM (or anyone else) tries to speak to Gavilar, the Stormfather knows someone else is there. Moreover I highly doubt that the Stormfather would pass over the fact that Gavilar is having two conversations at once - it's really hard to miss. And Venli was brought in by the Stormfather during a Highstorm. Odium broke into Dalinar's vision - forcefully and very openly.

Yes, the safe blocking the blade is fine, it could have been made from aluminum, or like Soen boxes, no problems here. The big question is who was bonded with this Honorblade before Chana died? Was it Chana or Shallan? If Chana was bonded to it, then it should disappear the moment she died, if it was somehow trapped in a box, the bond would still remain, preventing Shallan from bonding it, no matter if the safe was opened or closed. Not to mention why would Shallan used Chana's blade to kill her mother if she wasn't bonded with it, because she had to used it, otherwise the blade would have been dismissed by Chana - when dismissed it would not appear next to her body when she died, it would go straight to Braize with her. If the blade was bonded with Shallan, there is nothing holding Chana to Roshar, no bond between her and the blade exists. That's why used the argument with Nale and his spren. If a deeper bond with a spren doesn't prevent Nale from returning to Braize when his spren is left on Roshar, a weaker bond with an Honorblade won't do this at all. Did he know it before Jez died? Or simply concluded what had happened based on what he felt when Jez died and his realmatic knowledge? The answer is in RoW epigraphs, ch 79: Agreed. Yes, but the problem here is that Chana had no powers before reclaiming her Honorblade, she was in hiding, she was busy having a family, quite a big one, on the opposite side of Roshar. How would she reclaim her Honorblade from Shins who were 100% unwilling to return them to Heralds? She had to steal it, but it would be very hard to do without Surges. So while it's possible and there is enough time to do that (that's why I've mentioned a 1 year window), it's just unlikely.

From the narrative point of view, the reason is quite obvious - to shift the relationship between Dalinar and the Stormfather and introduce more conflict. Remember that time in RoW when Shallan suspected Pattern of treason and working with Ghostbloods? Even if that was a very short lived thing, it turned their relationship upside down for a moment and led to something bigger. As for while the Stormfather wasn't doing anything in that direction after Gavilar was killed, it's simple - a Herald died, soon they will break and a new Desolation will start. There is no way to prevent it from coming in such a short timeframe. They're doomed and there is also no clear way to stop this Desolation as even Odium can't force his Fused to remain on Braize - now Fused souls are bound to the Everstorm, being reborn in it and they don't return to Braize after their death - they're fully going around the Oathpact. Of course that's it he wanted to even make new Heralds, I wouldn't be so sure about it as the way he said it was... weird. I think the problem with BAM is that she had those Connections, but doesn't have them now. Her imprisonment in a gemstone broke all her Connections, which in turn wounded all spren, beings and most importantly Singers. It's like how it was with Jezrien. Trapping him in a gemstone broke all his Connections to the PR and to the Oathpact, allowing his soul to fade into the Beyond. BAM should not be able to do any of this.

Band names? Roshar is full of them! Nightblood sounds metal as hell! Voidbringers, Dawnsingers, Dustbringers, Skybreakers, Windrunners, Oathbringer, Stormfather or Nightwacher - pick a random chapter from SA and you will find a cool name for a band.

In my opinion it's not about words specifically in this passage, it's about intent. This is the only time Gavilar meant the words he was speaking, every other time he was just guessing random quotes from the Way of Kings book. Here he had the right intent behind them, he really wanted power, he really needed it - intent was there, but this time the words were very wrong. That's why it's "almost" - for an Ideal to be accepted both intent and words must be matched. He needs to find the right intent and correct words would come to him. And the Stormfather even said it later: Personally, I believe that there is no Stormfaker, it's just a Stormfather who's manipulating and lying to Gavilar. Heralds and Honor were the only parties in the Oathpact: The Oathpact forms a cage from souls and cages are generally used to imprison someone against their will. There is no need to involve Fused or Odium in the Oathpact. OB ch 47: The Oathpact is greater than Odium's imprisonment, but it's still a part of it:

I'll add more, please avoid writing spoilers in the title of topics because those titles are visible from the main page.

Or there was no blade in the safe at all and it was all a lie Shallan was telling herself, a part of her self deception. It's possible Lyn took Shallan's Testament and hid it in the safe, but it dissapeared the moment he closed the doors, as Testament was in the garden when Shallan broke her bond. Since then there was no blade in the safe. But as you see it doesn't work well with the fact that Shallan opened the safe after killing her father and took the Shardblade out. At first I thought it's another self-deception of her, to protect her from truth and in reality she summoned the blade and pretended that she took it out - however it doesn't make sense as Shallan opened herself to all truth regarding Testament, there is no point in lying that she somehow took Testament out of the safe. So it's either another 3rd blade like you suggest, or there was never any blade hidden in the safe. It's a lie covering the last truth, which is that Chana was her mother. Shallan is lying to herself about what was in the box to hide another truth and I don’t think it has to be any blade. So it was Shallan who killed Chana with Chana's Honorblade? Because there is no other way for Lyn to grab the Honorblade, it had to be in Shallan's hands. If it was dismissed with Chana then it would not appear next to her body as it would be immediately yanked with her to Braize. And that's a problem, why and how would Shallan suddenly get Chana's Honorblade in her hands?? She couldn't have been bonded with it back then, Chana had to be bonded with it. Moreover this shouldn't matter at all if the Honorblade bonded with Chana was left behind on Roshar (and the blade isn't a part of the Oathpact anyway), she would be pulled to Braize anyway. We know this because Nale could be on Braize while his spren would stay on Roshar. There should be no delay even if the Honorblade got somehow stuck on Roshar. And a bond with a spren is DEEPER than a bond with an Honorblade - if spren left behind on Roshar doesn't prevent a Herald from returning to Braize, I don't see how an Honorblade trapped on Roshar would do that. The bond with Honorblades isn't as deep as a Radiant bond, that makes them less efficient, which doesn't change when a Herald bonds them. Nale's bond with his spren is deeper than his bond with his Honorblade. And as I've said in another topic, there is only a 1 year long window between Szeth's banishment (who knew Shins had 8 blades in total) and Chana's death for Chana to somehow reclaim her Honorblade from the hands of Shins, who were unwilling to give them back to Heralds. It would be unlikely, but not impossible. Wait, so the Honorblade would be still bonded with Chana, while also being bonded with Shallan? I don't think that's possible. I don't think several people can be bonded with one Honorblade/Shardblade. I do agree that Chana's soul was somehow trapped in the safe, maybe it's even the Seon box Shallan remembers using (the safe was called a box quite a few times), but I doubt there was an Honorblade involved. I am more inclined to believe that Shallan lied to herself again in this KoWT chapter, pretending she took out Testament, to hide the truth that she did something with her mother's soul. Veil was created way back then as Shallan's way to hide the fact she killed her mother, Radiant was created probably around the same time, to hide the fact about her mother being Chana. Not specifically, but it seems it was after OB. Before that everything was fine in Shinovar, Rysn went there to trade, they were in contact with others like Dalinar after he rediscovered Urithiru etc. Only after OB they started to isolate themselves and shoot arrows towards Windrunners, so this must be when Unmades appeared. Only after this did Ishar come and reclaimed his Honorblade, killing Neturo.

Not exactly. They are healed to their Spiritual Ideal but filtered through their self-perception. Kaladin thought of himself as being branded so his scars couldn't be healed. Remove your body part?? That's extreme, dangerous and potentially would require a ton of healing - too much. Just touch a metalmind and tap health. The problem with tumor and cancer is that they are generally slow growing things, it can take years to develop them and in that time your perception will subconsciously include them and their symptoms as a part of your self-image - they would be treated like old wounds or Kaladin's scars, they would be treated as a part of you. They might be unhealable for someone who has no powers and just once touched an unsealed goldmind, at least if they don't do some mental gymnastics. However, for a person with constant access to inverted art, like a Radiant or a Bloodmaker, cancer or tumor won't ever develop, because whenever it starts to form in one cell, their healing would heal them back to a healthy state. That's because there wasn't nearly enough time for their self-perception to change and include cancer in their ideal image.

Possible. But we also know that Heralds were hiding on Braize for some time, before their torture starts. By this time most, if not all Fused were slumbering and it seems that all of this caught them off guard. Nobody expected another Herald to suddenly appear on Braize, which allowed Chana to hide on Braize for much longer, because either nobody was searching for her, or there were too few souls searching for her. However, was it said that the safe was opened by Shallan or her brothers? Wouldn't the time of the Jah Keved civil war correspond with the return of Taln? Wouldn't it be possible for the safe to remain unopened until one of the many armies conquered their house, possibly burning or pillaging it, thus releasing Chana's soul from the safe shortly before Taln's return? Yes, I did try to explain that there is still a chance for someone to steal a Honorblade and Szeth wouldn't have known about this, because he was out there killing people. Szeth would have a hard time to know what was happening in Shinovar afterall. But that's a short time frame - only around a year as he was banished in 1166 and in the next year, in 1167, he killed Gavilar (and Chana died). And that someone needs to steal the blade, just revealing themselves as Heralds won't work. Ishar did it under vastly different circumstances. He did it somewhere after OB, when Unmades were already in control of Shinovar and he killed Neturo, the previous holder of his Honorblade. Oh, that was just me providing quotes, I wasn't making any point there. Shallan is an unreliable narrator, we can't count on her noticing that Kaladin's eye changed the moment she gave him her Honorblade (assuming that was it), she would have deceived herself about her own eye color and she might have been even able to subconsciously hide them under an illusion if needed (after all, in RoW she said she remembered using her Surges before bonding Pattern). I suspect that's because Heralds are Cognitive Shadows, their self-perception might be enough to overwrite that aspect of Shardblades and keep their eyes the same.

I think that's a wrong section for this kind of topic, I will ask mods to move it somewhere better.

I wouldn't say better, but more efficient. Heralds would be still way above any 5th Ideal Radiant. I agree, we don't know what the full potential of Honorblades is, even the Stormfather said they would make you more than what a Radiant is. To add more, Heralds were feeding directly from Honor - the efficiency problem with Honorblade would not matter to them. OB ch 16:

The problem with this is that Szeth confirmed that Shins have 8 blades and only Nale and Taln's blades are missing. He knows this because he trained with every Surge, he had access to blades. There would be a very short window of opportunity for someone to steal a Honorblade between the time Szeth was named Truthless and Shallan's mother was killed. Moreover, per Szeth's words, Shins were unwilling to return Honorblades to Heralds, so it would have to be taken by force - and Surges would be needed for that. OB ch 106: OB ch 120: RoW ch 111: That's true, but lighteyes eye color is affected by blades - both Honorblades and living Shardblade change the color to pale, almost glowing one, lighter than that of any lighteye. People who just hold an Honorblade would be recognizable by their eyes. WoK I-3: OB ch 64: WoR ch 87: Please try to avoid double posting as it's against the site's policy. You can just edit your previous post (click the three dots at the top right corner of your post, then "edit"), or use the multi quote tool (the "+" button at the bottom of each post and once used it a window with option to "quote all" will appear in the bottom right corner of your screen).

Mistborn spoilers: Edit: More Mistborn Spoilers: We don't know what precisely, but the Musings of El suggest that El was stripped of his title and Rhythms by suggesting to treat humans somewhat equally to Singers and incorporate them into Odium forces to a greater extent - to use their Passions, instead of killing them. Taravangian seems to agree with El. RoW epigraphs: Yes, had the power to do it, but he most likely would not have done this. That's a big change. A Vessel's interpretation of laws, oaths and terms can influence their meaning. With a new Vessel, Odium can do things that Rayse wouldn't have been able to because of his interpretation of oaths. RoW ch 116:

What do you mean wasted? Changes were, one of them is killing the Pursuer, the other is tricking Hoid and stealing his memories (Rayse wouldn't have done this), the change to use the full potential of human under Odium control (from Musings of El) - a proposition for which El was stripped of his titles and Rhythms by Rayse. More changes were definitely made off-pages, we will see them in KoWT. Also keep in mind that the knowledge comes gradually to a new Vessel after Ascension, the longer he waits and gets accustomed to his new powers, the better he gets. Taravangian said it himself that he could end the war right after his Ascension - the easiest way to do it was to strip Fused from their Connection to Odium killing them (or do whatever Rayse was meaning by saying he can take away what makes them alive), take away the forms of power from Singers, stop giving Voidlight, force them all to leave Alethkar, Herdaz and other occupied territories and just reveal himself to Dalinar saying "look, I was right, I'm Odium now and I'm ending this war and Desolations. We've won and Roshar is safe atlast." He didn't do it because he saw Rayse's plans for the entire Cosmere and decided to continue his work.

Yes. Sound not really, unless by the effects it will have on other things and people, which would be shown by shadows. But while burning Atium for the first time, Vin saw Kelsier's shadow moving his lips indicating he will start speaking, but she heard or sensed nothing. However, Atium can help you with Hemalurgy - it will help you with placement of your spikes in points corresponding to your intent. This means it might be possible for someone who knows almost nothing about Hemalurgy and is unfamiliar with binding points, to burn enough Atium so they can spike precisely where they need to, to steal what they want. That's non-visual information. And the fact that it disturbs the future sight of others (not just Atium users, but Shards as well) is a big advantage - it makes you unpredictable to some degree. In the most extreme applications, like burning pure Atium or burning Atium with duralumin, it will allow you to "see" a wide range of possible futures and gain full understanding of what's happening - like Elend did at the end of HoA. Is that a visual thing? I don't know, at that moment Elend was pulled into the SR directly, so that's a very different experience compared to just burning Atium. I interpret it that he needs to first burn through a lot of Atium so it would warp his soul (Savantism) and then he would be able to have a practical use of Atium even if blind - below that he would struggle with sensing Atium, but he still should sense something. Tin should be handy for a blind person even without Savanthood, but with Savanthood he would be like Spook and be able to smell, echolocate and feel the movement of air precisely enough to completely ignore his blindness. As for steel or iron, Savantism isn't needed. Any Allomancer of those metals can learn to see like a Steel Inquisitor does, they just need to learn how to do this. Can you see behind you back? No. So you can't physically see Atium shadows that are behind you with your eyes, but because of your increased reach into the SR, you can sense them and react to them thanks to your mental enhancement. There is another attribute that matters here other than sight, it's Fortune. Fortune is a way of knowing things you can't know otherwise, it's a kind of gut feeling that tells you what to do, it's a way of accessing the Spiritual Realm. Burning Atium increases your Fortune and allows you to access SR so you know what's coming even without seeing it. Electrum also grants you increased Fortune, but not as much as Atium. It also lacks any mental enhancements. Thus I think we can say electrum relies mostly on what you see and you probably can't sense something that you can't see, unless you train a lot with electrum, possibly to the point of becoming a Savant - we don't know that, but it's weaker than Atium. The amount of electrum shadows on their own are overwhelming and it's very hard to get some usable information from them, but there is no sense of gut feeling or subconscious reactions Vin or Elend experienced (they used it twice in HoA as an Atium counter, not enough to say something with certainty).

Symmetry isn't just about two halfs. There are many folds of symmetry seen on Roshar. Just taking Dawncities for example, Kholinar has threefold symmetry, Vedenar sixfold, Akinah City tenfold, and Thaylen City fourfold and the Shattered Plains have four or eightfold symmetry. This pattern seems to strongly point that all 10 Dawncities have a different number for their symmetrical pattern, up to ten folds of symmetry - the number 10 appears once more. Every Shard has a number associated with them, for Honor it's 10 and it was mostly confirmed by Brandon at this point, for Odium it's 9, we don't know what Cultivation's number is yet, but there are strong suggestions that it's 3. Other Shards elsewhere in Cosmere also have their own numbers. Mistborn spoiler WoBs: And while the symmetry between characters is obvious and very deliberate, it doesn't have to mean it's because of Honor, it's simply because it makes for a better story and character development. Kaladin and Szeth or Kaladin and Moash are meant to represent two sides of the same coin, specifically Moash is a representation of who Kaladin would have become if he were to pick up that Shardblade after saving Amaram. Dalinar and Taravangian are meant to be total opposition, one has a filosophy "the end justifies the means," while Dalinar swore "journey before destination." Shallan and Lift have some interesting similarities I didn't see before - Shallan is running away from her past by changing and wearing different faces, Lift runs away from her past trying not to change at all. Overall this symmetry is crafted very deliberately by Brandon and it's not just in SA, it's also present in many other books of Brandon - those conflicts make a good story and have a bigger impact on characters. We cannot attribute them all to Honor, but SA does focus strongly on this conflict between characters and their philosophy and morality. Fused and Regals - Fused are those who Return like Leshwi, Regals are Singers with forms of power like Venli. They are Surgebinders. We don't know what Voidbinding is, but it's strongly suspected it's what Renarin does with his future visions. Heralds are like Fused - they were made in response to Fused, they are Cognitive Shadows, they don't die, they return etc. Unmades are Spren, they are to Odium what the Stormfather is to Honor, or Nightwatcher is to Cultivation. The continent of Roshar has not much to do with Honor, it's much older than Honor. It was designed and created by Adonalsium himself, before he was Shattered, before Honor even existed. The shape of Roshar is a slice of a Julia set of some specific mathematical function.

So, it seems natural to assume that atium and electrum let you see shadows out the back of your head. However, for atium, there's a serious problem with this. Atium shows you future shadows for all objects, except yourself and aluminum ones. You don't see shadows for stationary objects, presumably because they are in the exact same position as the real object. But if you can't see the real object (e.g. you're blind, your eyes are closed, or the object is simply behind you) shouldn't you be able to see its shadow? This would mean that an atium burner would have full 360-degree vision. However, we see no mention of atium burners being able to see anything behind them except for the shadows of their opponents. They don't seem to see the terrain or environment with atium. So why is this? Atium shadows are glimpses into the Spiritual Realm via Fortune. But Atium has something that electrum doesn't - mental enhancement. Atium enhances your mind so it can process Atium can process those glimpses from the Spiritual Realm. That's why Atium allows you to react to shadows outside of your field of view (confirmed in books), it's because your eyes doesn't have to look at shadows for you to comprehend them, there is something more Cognitive and Spiritual going on here (but keep in mind, the WoB you quoted said you have to be a Savant to fully comprehend Atium "shadows" without eyes). Electrum has nothing like this, electrum just allows you to see shadows and you have to physically see them and react to them in real time to make them useful - which is hard when you're seeing dozens of electrum shadows at once, but not impossible with enough practice. But that’s nowhere near Atium. And why don't you see Shadows of ground and stationary objects? Well, you've answered it yourself - they aren't moving. Shadows might be there, inside them but invisible to your eyes (not to your mind). Or maybe it's because of the Intent of the person who burns Atium specify what to see. Or maybe it doesn't include ground, buildings and stuff like that, too strongly connected to the planet or for some other reason. Or maybe they just need to move to produce a shadow at all. No idea, but all those explanations can justify why this is happening. It doesn't change anything.

There was no main Shard on Scadrial. Except for humanity, Ruin and Preservation were equally invested in everything. Even in terms of influence Ruin was winning while being trapped. He was deceiving people, twisting their religions and prophecies to the point that he almost completely erased Preservation from people's minds. Ruin was winning, Preservation was merely a shadow of his former self, he gave up his mind to trap Ruin, but that killed him. If Ruin were to trap Preservation, he would have done this by giving up his mind, thus becoming how Leras was - almost mindless power. But with one difference - Ruin wouldn't be Splintered into Atium, this would still be part of Ruin, thus Ruin would be stronger. Ruin would be able to fully destroy Scadrial if he were to imprison Preservation, there is no going around this. Scadrial wouldn't exist anymore. He would open ground, spill magma out, cover everything in fires and ash, flood coastline, spread death and destruction everywhere - his entire purpose would be to kill and destroy everything, not let it live long and prosper. Ruin was interested only in getting what he was promised and that was destruction of Scadrial. Yes, because it's a natural manifestation of both Shards. The question should be would there be Feruchemist - we don't know how Feruchemist came to be, if they appeared after Ruin was imprisoned than there would be no Feruchemist (and Allomancers as well because those came from Mistsnapping before the Final Empire was established) in your scenario (not that it would matter, Scadrial would be gone very fast). Possible, if Ruin wants them. Ruin was the one who whispered to Rashek how to make them when he held the power.

Yes, Atium is trapped in the cycle and it won't run out - but there is a limited amount of investiture in that cycle and it's fully separate from Ruin. This is because when Ruin was trapped by Preservation, he kind of Splintered part of Ruin and separated that investiture from him by trapping it in the Atium cycle in the Pits. And that's also the answer to your question - Preservation deliberately weakened Ruin and made his Splintered investiture usable by Allomancers, so it could be used against him in the final moments of Preservation's grand plan, that's why there is so much of Atium. We don't know how Lerasium was made or when. We don't know if Lerasium comes from natural phenomena of Shardic investiture leaking from the Spiritual Realm and manifesting physically in the Physical Realm or if it was made deliberately by someone. Rashek didn't make Lerasium, he simply found it and used it to create the first Mistborn. It's very likely that there were 16 original Lerasium beads, but what happened to those missing is unknown. It also seems that Rashek had to get Lerasium beads from somewhere as they weren't just laying right outside the Well. Lerasium isn't formed like Atium, it's not trapped in the cycle as far as we know, it's not Splintered like Atium was. The difference in quantity of those two god metals is because Preservation is already spread vastly across the entire Scadrial - he's in every person, he's in Mists and that leaves little of his essence to be leaking as solid investiture - Lerasium. Ruin on the other hand is concentrated mostly in Atium. It's actually the opposite. A perpendicularity forms around massive concentrations of investiture. The Well of Ascension was handcrafted to contain Ruin's mind so it's different from perpendicularities (yes, there were several of them) below the Pits, who appeared there because of Atium presence (because Kelsier destroying the Pits collapsed all those perpendicularities).

Spoilers!! You did good by putting the first spoiler from SA5 in a spoiler box, but you've immediately forgotten to do that again in the next sentence. Please edit your post and put the second spoiler box Responding to the SA5 spoiler: Ishar said that Shins welcomed Unmades. It's hard to say when this happened, but I think we have enough information to estimate this. In WoK Rysn visited Shinovar and everything seemed normal. In OB Shins exchange correspondence with Dalinar in Urithiru, congratulating him on reclaiming the city and just before the Battle of Thaylen field they notify nations that the Everstorm was coming earlier. Only somewhere after this and before the beginning of RoW did Shins break their contact with everyone else and even become hostile towards Radiants they try to fly by Shinovrar. I think this strongly suggests that Unmades appeared after OB, as that's when Shins behavior was changed. Let's go Unmade by Unmade and present all we know about their current location and how likely it is that they are in Shinovar now. Ashertmarn - last seen in Kholinar during OB, he left the city and his current position is unknown. Timeline seems to fit, he could have gone towards Shinovar after Kholinar and due to his efficiency of corrupting people shown to us in OB, it would make sense to involve this Unmade in Shinovar. Ba-Ado-Mishram - trapped in a gemstone since Recreance, she can't be in Shinovar. Chemoarish - nothing is known about her, we've never seen her before. It's possible she is in Shinovar, as it would be a good way to introduce us to this Unmade. Dai-Gonarthis - just as with the previous Unmade, not much is known about Dai-Gonarthis. It's possible he was involved in the Scouring of Aimia. However because of this Death Rattle, I suspect he's the one responsible for making Moash emotionless, thus he would be always near Moash. I think it's unlikely he's in Shinovar. WoK ch 67 epigraphs: Moelach - he was reported by the Diagram to have settled near the Horneater Peaks by the end of OB. I think he was still there during the events of RoW, mainly because the novela in between RoW and SA5 was meant to be about Rock and Horneaters and it would be good for the plot to have an Unmade there. Nergaoul - he's practicing deep diving. Can't be in Shinovar. Re-Shephir - she resided in the Urithiru until she was forced to escape in the beginning of OB, thus the timeline fits and she might have moved towards Shinovar after OB. She was in contact with Fused because she reported to them she felt the Sibling is dead some time after her escape. Nothing else is known about her location. Sja-Anat - was in Kholinar in OB, in the middle of RoW she was commanded by Odium to move to Emul, to watch Taravangian. Moreover she's actively working against Odium. She wasn't in Shinovar. Yelig-Nar - since the aftermath of the Battle of Thaylen Field his location is unknown. It's possible he moved towards Shinovar, the timeline would fit, however it's worth remembering that he needs a physical host to act. Only those strong enough will be able to control him, otherwise they would be consumed like the queen Aesudan. Due to this I think it's unlikely he's the one influencing Shins, even if he is in Shinovar which might be possible. Yet I think he might have been held in reserve by Rayse as a gift for his Champion against Dalinar - this would be a very smart move by Rayse to empower his Champion with Yelig-Nar, so I doubt he's in Shinovar. However it's just a speculation of mine. From this we can see that 4 Unmades can't be in Shinovar, or it's highly unlikely for them to be there. Those are BAM, the Thrill, Moelach and Sja-Anat. I would include Dai-Gonarthis to this list as the 5th Unmade and Yelig-Nar as the 6th, however those are speculations then something we are sure of. The rest can be in Shinovar, however I highly doubt all of them would be there. One or two are enough and we shouldn't expect more than that. I think Chemoarish is very likely to be there because she is the one we know literally nothing about. Other than her I would say Ashertmarn is the second most likely Unmade to be there as well - he would be more useful there than Re-Shephir. However there is one more thing to consider - Ishar considers himself to be fighting against Odium and his champion, to be Almighty himself. He said Unmade were there when he arrived there and that he saved them from Unmades. It's likely that he indeed did that and he banished Unmades from Shinovar, so when Kaladin and Szeth go to Shinovar in SA5, no Unmades will be there. But it's equally likely that Ishar was swayed by Unmades as well, he allowed them to stay and used their influence to subjugate Shins under his rule. They can still be there causing further destabilization of Shinovar.

There is no force or pressure uniting Alethkar at this moment, it's the exact opposite. Dalinar managed to unite Alethkar without force. When he went towards the center of the Shattered Plains, he let his words and action do the uniting, not threats or swords - people joined him without being forced to do it. Those who survived the battle of Narak are now forever loyal to Dalinar, as he proved he was right and they were the first one who fought against Voidbringers. This loyalty won't be shaken now. Since then Dalinar grew to be an even bigger diplomat and he united the nation without forcing them to do that - they are following him because they want, not because they fear him. Highprinces are loyal, regular troops are even more loyal as they have fought with Dalinar for years now. Hostilities between camps are over. People of Alethkar are united by the cause of fighting against Voidbringers. There is no way that all those Vorin people would side with the enemy. There is no pressure that holds them to Dalinar - common people literally rebelled against Odium during the occupation of the Tower, they threw away their chances of getting back home and chose to fight against Voidbringers at the cost of their own lives. No insurrection will happen because they've already chosen their side. Dalinar has proven to be a capable leader. Not only he was the first to lead the fight against Voidbringers, he won the battle of Thaylen field against all odds, he created and leads the biggest coalition of nations on Roshar, that wasn't seen probably since the False Desolation, he successfully liberated Emul and Navani reclaimed Urithiru. All of Dalinar's action forced Odium to concede defeat and ask for terms - which is a massive achievement on its own. A literal opposition to Almighty humbly asked Dalinar for a terms of ending the war. They have no reasons to doubt Dalinar and due to the almost miraculous reconquest of Urithiru, I think they will have faith in Dalinar winning. Yes, concerns were raised (and that's a good thing because they can see Jasnah being her own queen, not being controlled by Dalinar), but everything is already thrown out of balance and people see this. A slave can save Dalinar and half of his army from obliteration and then fly among skies, a poorest darkeye can swear oaths and become a Radiant - all societal boundaries are already blurry and everyone sees this. Changes are upon them and they all see this. Even now there are people who work doing tasks which were earlier given to enslaved Parhsmen and everyone got accustomed to it. As for the Vorin church, that's the point. They were proven to be wrong, they aren't the right leaders during these desolate times - people are questioning them. They are losing significance, they are losing their status, they are losing respect and control. Even excommunicating Dalinar was a desperate move which accomplished nothing, as most didn't care about it. Things are changing, Vorinism was proven to be wrong, the church has to change as well and ardents are well aware of this. They are trying to redefine their faith to fit modern truths and regain their status. They can't fight it by siding with Odium as that would mean the end of the church and the traditional Vorin religion. If someone were to side with Odium, the church would be fully supportive of Dalinar's actions against them - they might not like him, but they are fighting a common enemy, the enemy of Almighty himself, which is greater than their little conflicts. And ardents are slaves themselves, they would probably be for the abolishment of slavery to gain more political power. OB ch 122: Here is a statement of Godeke, a Radiant who used to be an ardent from RoW ch 22: Ardents are already searching for a way to redefine Vorinism in reaction to recent events, some have already found it. That's not true at all. Fused have access to one Surge, not two, shanay-im have access to Gravitation, which DOESN'T belong to Honor. Even Fused belief that Adhesion is the truest Surge of Honor is biased and not to be trusted. All Fused aren't anywhere near Honor, they are all of Odium - fully. What Leshwi did was fully aligned with the intent of Odium and his Passions. Raboniel literally betrayed Odium in her last moments, all to end the war no matter who wins. Fused aren't as loyal to Odium as you see it. They still perceive Singers as their people, many still fight for their right to their homeworld. Raboniel's past action of creating a disease which decimated Singers, was condemned by many Fused. There is no way for them to sit quietly and watch Odium sacrifice so many of their own people, many will rebel - reborning won't matter anymore, the war is over if they do it. Singers don't have their own culture, that's true, but they are developing it right now. And the one, single thing that unites them all is their fight for independence. Once Alethkar was conquered, Singers from all across Roshar flocked to it, happy to own their own homeland. There are not only Alethi Singers there, there are Singers from all across Roshar. It's their country now. Odium can't give it up without every single Singer there rebelling against him. The cause is uniting them all. El is looking forward to it, not the Fused. El was stripped of his title and Rhythms by suggesting incorporating humans into Odium's forces and nations. Other Fused do not share his view - even Leshwi rejected the idea of emplying a human instead of a Singer. RoW ch 99 epigraphs: That's the whole point. He doesn't want to be bound. He wants to be free - he needs to force Dalinar to break the terms of the contract, which will put Dalinar in Odium's hands, render the contract void and free Odium of his bounds. Taravangian had the power to end the war and save anyone on Roshar right at the moment of his Ascension, but decided not to because "of the whole Cosmere" (quoted in my previous post). He wants out, just like Rayse did. This is the outcome in which Odium wins, winning the contest is not a win for Odium as he's still bound to Roshar. RoW ch 112: You mean a person, who went out of his way risking his own life to talk to and convince neutral Honorspren to join the war effort instead of being neutral and in that way helping Odium, will suddenly become neutral just because? With no motivation, no justification? That's totally out of character for Adolin. Taking that deal means siding with Odium. Being neutral is betraying everything he fought for, betraying his efforts in Lasting Integrity, betraying HIS allies, soldiers and his country. He won't do that. He cares for his people, but his morality will always put him against anything Odium will want, neutrality included.

I don't see this happening at all. First of all, Dalinar is not the king of Alethkar, he's the king of Urithiru. Jasnah is the current ruler of Alethkar and as of the end of RoW, she got rid of all political opposition among Highprinces, with Sadeas, Thanadal and Vamah being dealt with at the beginning of the RoW and Ruthar being the last defeated by Jasnah herself - Kholin's position is now unquestionable and Highprinces are loyal to them. Secondly they all still greatly respect and follow Dalinar out of that respect. This was shown to us as early as in WoR, when even Aladar, the biggest "ally" of Sadeas, joined Dalinar on his assault to the center of the Shattered Plains. Right now, after all what's happened in OB and RoW, Dalinar's position is cemented firmly among Alethi lighteyes. If even Dalinar's excommunication and the truth about Rathalas and Evi didn't break their loyalty, there is literally nothing that will do this. I see no way for Taravangian to turn Dalinar's most loyal ally - Alethi Highprinces - against him, especially after Navani reclaimed Urithiru and Dalinar’s successful offensive in Emul. 10 days to sow discord among the most loyal part of Dalinar's coalition is far too little, even for a masterful politician such as Taravangian. Another problem is even if somehow all Alethi Highprices were to defect and declare neutrality (that means they can't ally Odium or work with Odium in any way, otherwise they would be considered of Odium and would be given back to Dalinar if he were to win the duel), the contract is still binding to both parties. There are other allies on Dalinar's side, there are other nations bound by those terms. Taravangian isn't interested in Alethkar, he's interested in getting rid of the contract entirely - getting freed of Honor's bindings. Taravangian wants to become a player on the wider Cosmere political stage and being bound to Roshar isn't good at all. He needs to be free, even if he won't leave the system (because it's hard, Odium is too invested in Roshar to leave with no troubles). That's the main goal of Taravangian "to free them all." Alethkar holds no value in the long term. He loses as long as he remains bound by Honor and the terms of the Contest puts him always at loss. RoW ch 114: Then both Fused and Singers would rebel against him. There are already those who did it and weren't punished, setting a precedent. Not a great plan. Slavery is already almost abolished. A great number of Alethi slaves were Parshman, who now are free, while one particular group of slaves became one of the most influential groups among Alethi society, jumping up to the 4th Dahn by becoming Knights Radiant. Jasnah being an atheist seems to be now mostly resolved after her greatest critic, Ruthar, lost his title in RoW. Nobody really cares anymore about Dalinar marrying Navani, even ardent Kadash said that kings have done worse and retained Vorin support (OB ch 16). And the Vorin church is in shambles. It claims the Aharietiam was the Last Desolation and Voidbringers were fully defeated and yet here we are at the True Desolation with Voidbringers back on Roshar. It claimes Heralds are second to Almighty, they are fighting in the Tranquiline Halls, yet they were proven to be insane, liars and traitors, abandoning their fellow companion to 4500 years of torture. All spren confirm Honor is dead and this is becoming harder to deny as even some ardents accepted this as a fact and reconceptualized their faith, seeing Honor as merely an aspect of Almighty. Change is upon the church of Vorin, Dalinar forces them to change and many see the need for that, some even sees this as an opportunity to break free of Vorin control. This has been largely resolved. Even Ialai didn't like the fact that her soldiers defected to Odium, this only isolated and shamed her on the political stage. As of the end of RoW, all political opposition among Aleth Highprices is gone. Vamah, Thanadal Ialai was killed and succeeded by loyal people, securing the loyalty of those Houses and lastly Ruthar was ostracized after his duel with Jasnah. Alethkar is now in its most united state since the death of Gavilar. RoW ch 27: RoW ch 50: It doesn't matter. Navani liberated the Tower. And people will remain loyal to Kaladin and his loyalty, even in his absence. The common people of Alethkar are fully behind Kholins. Maybe because they betrayed Alethkar and tried to stab them in the back on multiple occasions? They don't like them at all, they won't follow Jah Keved. And Heralds are divine and wise, not drooling madmen who run away from their oaths, abandoning humanity. Vorin tradition was already proved to be wrong on several occasions, while Radiants were shown to heroically protect people from Desolation. There literally is a cult of the Stormblessed now. This doesn't matter as much as it did before. Dalinar is getting better. He outmaneuvered Odium, that counts for something. And he united half of Roshar under a single banner, without conquering them. OB ch 2: I don't think current Highprinces will agree with you. Ialai was killed when being arrested by Dalinar's forces, making it look like Dalinar did it, yet nobody cared. They all got over it. I can't see this at all. Adolin still loves his father. Adolin wants to prove himself to his father and make him proud, showing him that there are other ways of being honorable than what Dalinar sees. And Adolin already did "his own kind of wrong," by letting himself be put on trial by Honorspren - something that Dalinar would most likely not let him do. The only way Adolin will act against Dalinar is by being tricked by Taravangian and doing something that in Adolin's eyes would benefit Dalinar, not throw away everything he achieved. But even this will fall short as Adolin doesn't trust Taravangian at all - we all know very well how he doesn't like those who betray them on a battlefield. Adolin has no reasons to listen to anything Taravangian has to say. He accomplished his task at the Lasting Integrity, proving himself better than it was expected from him. He would never side with Odium and Voidbringers. RoW ch 87: They do have Shardbearers on their own, they possess some blades (of Elhokar for example) and Singers amassed a large force in Alethkar, with many Regals wielding Surges. They won't be easy to defeat, especially that the Kholinar's Oathgate is a massive choke point - you not only can't send large forces at once, you can get off the Oathgate by either using steep stairs, or a narrow bridge leading to the palace - both ways can be easily blocked by a minimal force, the bridge can be even destroyed, leaving them with only one way to block. it would be extremely difficult for Alethi to conquer Kholinar, even with no Fused present there. However it's unlikely Fused will listen to Odium, they will rebel like Leshwi, the Heavenly Ones will be the first to do that and many will follow them soon after - they all are Singers and they would perceive this as the highest possible treason, comparable to the betrayal of spren. This would end with mass revolt against Odium and most Singers and Fused would abandon him, choosing the road of Venli and Listeners. In consequence, this would deprive Odium of his entire army and leave him and Alethi Highprinces totally exposed - which is vastly different than a position of strength. Those Highprinces would then recalculate their position and alignment with Odium and probably switch back to Dalinar's side. It’s a really spectacular and brilliant way for Taravangian to lose everything at once, while gaining nothing in return.

It's possible, just use Bondsmith powers (so Neturo might be the one who did it after all). Honorblades aren't directly related to the Oathpact.