alder24

Disagree. I think it's pretty clear that the nature of Highstorms and Stormfather are merged into one - maybe far in the distant past it wasn't like this, but now it is. But no matter this, it's the Stormfather that provides Stormlight during Highstorm, without him, there is no light, even if Highstorms would still be blowing, without light, there is no life on Roshar.

The Stormfather has control over them and rides them, Highstorm contains only Honor's investiture, not any other Shard, Highstorm were changed by Honor, and even Honor himself was said to ride Highstorms. Just remove Stormlight out from Highstorms, Roshar is doomed, end the Highstorm cycle, Roshar is dead. The Stormfather is the Highstorm now. Coppermind even said that Highstorms are physical manifestation of Stormfather: RoW ch 71: Edit: RoW ch 87:

Not with healing. Healing doesn't cure age related illnesses and aging itself. Radiants aren't ageless. Just having a constant stream of Stormlight isn't enough, of course they would have to hold it in their body (which isn't perfect and leaks). But there are some passive effects of holding investiture similar to Heightenings, but we don't know if holding massive amounts of Stormlight would stop your aging. Hard maybe. But you would need a looot of it, which would leak very fast. That's not a very practical way to gain immortality.

Oh right, I forgot about this. He did, RoW ch 57: If you take two spanreeds to CR I don't see any reason now why they wouldn't work.

Well, how would you bring spren into CR? If you can bring them there - I think it's likely with lesser spren - then they should work in CR. But things like Shardblades or Shardplates can't be brought into CR, but Ryshadium can go with its bonded spren, and BAM possibly is somewhere in CR. It all depends on what would happen to a spren in a gemstone when you try to enter CR. But then the problem would be Stormlight. You would run out of it eventually, and smaller gems are losing light much faster than larger ones.

Yes, we can agree to disagree. It would make it faster, not twice as fast. We don't know the rate of decay. In terms of innate investiture. In terms of static and kinetic investiture it's unknown. But we know Scadrial is a low investiture world, and spikes contain only a little investiture, Scadrian innate investiture is worth less than a Breath, so a single spike made out of a single being is less invested than a Breath. And if you want to spike animals, it would hold even less investiture. Therefore if you steal innate investiture from one Scadrian, which is worth less than a single Breath, and part of it is lost in the process of spiking, and then tried to consume the decay from it, you won't get much investiture from this decay, as spikes can hold a significant charge for years, decades or hundreds of years, before they decay into traces amounts of investiture. This simply means that the rate of decay is really slow and you would need to make lots of lots of spikes to feed your Divine Breath with just decay. No. It was still happening with Vin's earring, I've posted a WoB about this in a previous post, here it's again: TLM Ars Arcanum talks about Shardic influence over their invested arts. If there was some influence over decay, Ruin pushing on the fabric of Scadrial would accelerate spikes decay, as he accelerated the decay of souls of living people to accept more spikes - this might explain why decay is no longer a thing. But those things weren't a conscious decision of the Shard: True, but it's Jak, take his stories with a grain of salt. Or just whoever made this box doesn't count as a normal, common Hemalurgist - Sazed or Kelsier.

There is no need for a spoiler box. Not really, but yes. Stormfather is more invested than Nightblood (Stormfather is not only Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, but also is merged with the biggest pieces of Honor), and Nightblood has a hard time absorbing a lot of investiture at once. He has a limit of how much he can absorb and we saw this in RoW. He can't absorb all of Stormfather. However, Nightblood can most likely deadeye Stormfather, seriously wound him that it would break him and kill him like a deadeye, without consuming all of him. If that would happen we don't know what would happen to Highstorms and Stormlight - my personal theory is that if Stormfather were to be turned into a deadeye, Highstorms would stop coming and Stormlight wouldn't be provided anymore.

I don't think it has any potential for survival, unless you have hundreds of fresh, leaking spikes. Splitting spikes decays them even more, splitting them in blood would prevent this decay: A single Breath holds a lot of investiture compared to other sources. Hemalurgic decay is tiny in comparison. Vin's earring still gave Vin a huge increase in A-bronze power despite it being held for years outside of her body and not in proper conditions preventing decay. You can't feed Returned, who requires at least a few Hemalurgic charges worth of investiture, with just a tiny bit of Hemalurgic decay. That's why I said something more is happening there. I don't think they've just figured out how to hold spikes in an aluminum box (per 2017 WoB they didn't try this at that time, but that's long before TLM), and more importantly that isn't any different from holding spikes in blood or flesh, like what Inquisitors were doing. If it is a simple aluminum box, then how is it "a thing of the past" when they've already done that in the past? Something different must have happened, maybe hemalurgic decay of new spikes doesn't happen, while old spikes, like Koloss or Inquisitor spikes still decay? Or maybe proper intent or spike preparation is needed? Honestly I have no idea.

We've seen this maximum destructive power. HoA ch 73: Given enough metal, or better pure Dor, a push like that can easily destroy massive buildings.

Yes, spikes left out in the open leak investiture because of the Hemalurgic decay. Sand would be charged. Interesting question. The leakage is quite low in volume, there isn't much investiture leaking per second, and it probably is only a tiny moment in PR, if it just doesn't leak straight to SR. It might be possible, but the polestone would leak too, and probably faster than a spike. You won't get much investiture from it, definitely not enough for a Returned to feed on this. Before I went too detailed on this idea, I've searched for WoBs - Hemalurgic decay outside of the body is no longer a thing, and I doubt Brandon's talking just about an aluminum box. Something more is happening here.

The problem is that's not how conjoined fabrials work. They share movement, not powers.

Finally, took you long enough Because you can murder someone in a bloody way... I mean experiment on people with the use of torture... That sounds bad. I want to say that you can ruin people's lives and get amazing powers from it. Rust, you can't really say it without sounding like a sadistic psychopath. Seriously, Hemalurgy is a bit like science, a bloody and cruel science, but accessible to everyone. There is so much to discover, so many possibilities and even some potential for a more gentle form of Hemalurgy. Hemalurgy allows you to steal any power in Cosmere you want, as long as you are able to deliver a spike to the heart like a terrifying Cupid. You can combine any power you want much easier than Hoid and get amazing results. Not to mention creating your own Frankenstein monsters. So many cool possibilities.

I don't really understand what you mean by this. A severed piece of your body isn't part of your body anymore, so whatever metalminds, or spikes are there, they are not part of your spirit web, they are not touching your body, they are not accessible to you. I also don't think you can have something like conjoined spikes - when you split a spike, the charge is simply split in two and that's it. They aren't connected and can't be connected like that. Spren are cognitive entities, spike steals a piece of a spirit web, it rips it to pieces - you don't get conjoined spikes because a soul ripped into two halves isn't a one soul anymore, isn't connected. And what would be the application of such a conjoined spike? A conjoined fabrial is used for its movement, a conjoined spike would move as well - but making it would not make you any stronger - you take a charge and you split that charge into many pieces, smaller and being the same power/attribute in all smaller pieces. You don't get stronger spikes this way. I don't think that a conjoined spike is possible to make reasonably (a Bondsmith might do something weird working like a conjoined gemstone) but even if it could be made, only the spike in your body would give you powers, for the same reason both spanreeds needs to be charged with Stormlight otherwise they won't work. And Hemalurgic spikes can be any piece of metal, not literally a spike. Spike makes it easy to pierce a body.

Warbreaker: Warbreaker:

He already IS stronger and faster in his non-Returned look. Your physical look doesn't change much of those characteristics, some yes, but the Returned state is the maximum of what they can achieve, while their suppressed state is in a bit lower range. That's your biggest problem with Antman? Really? Mine is the whole idea of it. It should be possible, you need to maintain the Cognitive aspect and most of the Spiritual, while reshaping the body to a different form (not size) - something like we saw in Tress but give them a human tiny body with all necessary changes needed for them to survive, or some form of healing.

It's not about nicrosil spike, it's about every spike: Because he isn't CS and he is using healing mechanisms. Because that's their appearance and they are CS. However even Vasher couldn't "hide" his wounds, and possibly even scars he had scars on his Vasher-body (but they weren't mentioned later, and in SA Vivenna could make/hide scars). Warbreaker: The WoB you posted specifically states that there are no pandemics in Cosmere specifically because people are invested and have greater immunity - Bioweapons are just far less effective in Cosmere than on Earth, and invested people will provide herd immunity for Drabs.

I'll join with more Warbreaker spoilers:

They probably will get invested more with every Highstorm passing, just like we see True Spren getting something out of it in CR. If that's true, then if you want to make sure you're not hurting Roshar too much, then splitting a spren, letting them grow and spiking one of them, while releasing the other, would be the "best" way to ensure no change in spren population.

I've found it, I missed that part earlier when searching. RoW ch 84: It doesn't say they need Stormlight, so it's likely that the new spren is half as invested as it was before being split.

We are not. Nobody except Nalthians can give up their innate investiture. Period. We've never seen anyone else be able to control their innate investiture like Nalthians can. Everyone in Cosmere is born with innate investiture, but the amount of it differs depending on a few factors, like Shardic presence or local invested art. I've given you a WoB which said that Scadrian's innate investiture is worth less than a Breath, so a spike will take less than a Breath, and lose parts of it because of the decay. That's it. Yeah, not everything has to be so advantageous. Spiking Breahts out might be just a bad idea (it is, they will decay) - better torture someone and force him to give you those Breaths. Also bigger spike can hold more charge. Because that's Awakening a dead corpse, replacing its lost spirit web with a Breath given to it. You can't Awaken something alive - Hemalurgy is doing hotwiring a piece of soul into your soul, those souls might not be very compatible. Returned don't heal themself. A damage done once to their body and their spirit web will remain no matter their perception. They can only change their appearance. Everyone in Cosmere has innate investiture - it's in the WoB you quoted - Drabs have none.

That's a very interesting WoB. But you might just be able to spike a jar of Dor, why not, it exists in all 3 Realms, so it might act like a spirit web for spikes. Then you "program" it. I didn't mean that too, I was just telling the probable difference between spiking a spren and splitting a spren into two gemstones, because I didn't know what outcome you're expecting - alive or dead spren at the end. I don't remember this regrowing spren part - I remember Navani telling that breaking the gemstone let half of the spren escape, but nothing about regrowing - how would she know that? But why do you need to go through those steps? It makes no sense to catch a spren, split it, give it investiture and spike investiture out of it - just catch it and spike it, Rosharan Artifabrians have no problem catching uncountable amounts of Flamespren for creation of very cheap spanreeds and other fabrials. Just make a fire and start catching spren. And sentient spren suffering is better? The Sibling disagrees very much with you. Moreover what would be the result of grafting a piece of Rainspren into your soul? It may end up just like what we think is going on with Chimeras. Spren are like animals and I think there would be some very unwanted consequences of mixing "animal" spirit web with human.

Yes. Nalthians are the most invested in terms of innate investiture, Scadrains are far less. Spiking out Preservation's fragment from 1 person will give you not only less than a Breath, but also you will lose some of it instantly because Hemalurgy is end-negative, and over time spikes decay. Because spikes not only steal innate investiture, but also damages the soul, steals some identity, connections, and other parts of the soul, unrelated to the intent of spiking. Giving up your Breath doesn't damage your soul. I didn't say that. If you take innate investiture from a single Scadrian, then you will get less than a Breath. But as seen in TLM, Set's spike could hold innate investiture taken out of 20-30 people - this would be more than a single Breath. It all depends on the spike size and how many people you spiked. Don't put spikes containing an animal spirit web into yourself - you will end up like Chimeras.

Source? Breaking the bond should be the same no matter who does it. Edit: I've found a WoB. It is possible, but there are some limitations, if both sides are committed it's really dangerous for a spren to break the bond safely. I would not expect it to be easy, something that a spren can just do anytime they want.

It's not only Dalinar who can break the Oath, it's Stormfather as well. If keeping the bond would cause greater risk/damage to Roshar/Cosmere than breaking the bond and deadeying himself, then Stormfather will break it. I think the only way to do this is to somehow make Dalinar into Odium's servant, and except for winning the contest, I don't see how to do that. I still think that it's very possible that Taravangian sees turning Dalinar into Fused as more important than freeing himself from Honor's bounds, because if Dalinar remains bounded to Stormfather, he can order Dalinar to free him, thus Stormfather will be forced to break his bond, or just Stormfather serving Odium is far worse than deadeye Stormfather. This would mean that Taravangian has to manipulate Dalinar into choosing someone else as the champion (as Dalinar can't die because death breaks the bond) and then win the duel. So while the most satisfying outcome would be to break free of Honor's restrictions, the other less satisfying, but still positive outcome might be to gain a powerful tool, kill Stormfather, ruining Coalition and Roshar itself, gaining massive advantage in fighting, denying them access to Stormlight completely, and then watching as Fused and Regals are winning the war with Dalinar leading them. Both Rayse and Taravangian wanted to get involved into wider Cosmere theater, so even if he remains bound to Roshar, he can still send his agents, like Dalinar, to represent him among other worlds and Shards. He can make Dalinar into his Avatar while remaining on Roshar and mess up other places from inside out. RoW ch 114:

If you want to make spikes without hurting anyone just use programmable Pure Dor like Moonlight suggested. That's the future of Hemalurgy. I think splitting spren into two gemstones and spiking them are two different things - spren split in fabrials are still connected, but a spike steals something from them, if spren wouldn't end up like Notum, they would end up deadeye if you take something more important than raw investiture.