alder24

This will be fun. I'm excited to read about your experience with Era 2

Yes, but just look at those parts. She realized what Rashek did, or what was a part of Preservation's plan, the moment she thought of it. Her mind was overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge she gained, and it took her some time to realize all of it - I believe she died before doing so. HoA ch 76: At least to the point of her place in those prophecies (after Elend's death), I doubt she saw Sazed's role yet. Thanks. Looking at quotes in this thread, it's maybe early spring, which isn't bad, early summer would make it much more problematic. The sunrise would happen around 5-6 AM with the sunset at around 7-8 PM (basically April). If the afternoon mentioned by Elend was early, like 1 or 2 PM rather than 5 PM, then Vin rotating the planet back 12h would make the current night time 1-2 AM, almost middle of the night, enough for Elend to arrive at the Pits, arm his soldiers, wait for Koloss and die as the sun was rising. If Vin Ascended closer to the morning (let's say 3 AM), then she held the Shard for around 11h until she rotated the planet 12h back (at 2 PM) and then an additional 3-5 hours until she died as the sun was rising. In total 14-16 hours. Does this make sense?

That's more possible, and you might be able to form a proper Nahel Bond, which would require you to spike yourself (to merge two souls) for it to work. But truthfully I don't think it would give you that much - the power you gain should be more or less the same (unless you investing the spike to sapience somehow expanded this part of the spiritweb, which might be possible), and at best you would have a talking companion, possibly with Ruinous personality. No. You get access to only what's coded in spike's spirit web - that's only what you've stolen. You don't get much from bonding Nightblood.

Yes, but during HoA the Mists were present all day long, and without them the day felt hotter, not unbearably hot, but still a bit hotter, enough for Yomen to notice. Ashfall was still happening in ch 74. After Vin cleared the skies the temperature rises so much that within a second it burned Elend's face, and later when Sazed was Ascending, the sun burned his skin, burned Koloss alive, and was hot enough for trees to self-ignite (that's around 450-600 degrees C, hard to say from just a quick google search) - so yes, like a literal oven. ch 82: I don't think we have the answer for that. She most likely learned some general Cosmere knowledge, history of the Shard she held, knowledge of what she can do with the power etc, as this comes with the power, but it comes over some period of time. However Vin didn't focus on this too much, so likely she didn't realize about her new gained knowledge, and likely didn't hold the power long enough for all of this knowledge to get to her. And because Ruin was opposing every single action Vin took, she didn't have many opportunities to learn more. She didn't do much outside of plugging the Ashmounts, clearing the sky, rotating the planet and killing Ruin.

It feels hot because the Mists are gone, and Mists helped to cool the planet down a little bit, like an additional layer of clouds. It's not because Vin rotated the planet, that form Elend's PoV comes later in ch 77. There is definitely some kind of time dilation involved when you're a Shard - Shards can do it both ways, as they can perceive it both slower or faster depending on their desire, kind of. Shards perceive the passage of time differently, as Shards exist mainly in the Spiritual Realm, which is timeless. From Vin's perspective - only a short conversation with Ruin, and a few devine actions, took place during the same time that Elend needed to journey from Fadrex to Luthadel. Elend left Fardrex in the morning (Vin fought with Inquisitors in Luthadel during the night before this morning), and arrived at Luthadel in the "afternoon", but in the meantime Vin moved the planet, so there was a night again. ch 72: ch 77: It took him some time to arrive at the Pits, and when he got there he estimated that this night was half through, by the end of this night he and his soldiers ate all of Atium and fought the Koloss army, with him dying as the sun was rising. But remember, because Vin rotated the planet, this sunrise was 6-12 h earlier than normally. From my estimates it looks like Vin held Preservation for around 1.5 days. ch 77: ch 80: ch 81: ch 82, after Vin and Ati's death: Edit: Elend arrived during the afternoon to Luthadel, a short time before he arrived he witnessed the Sun dropping below the horizon, as Vin rotated the planet back by around 12h ("spinning the world quickly so that the sun moved to its other side"). The night was back (from the afternoon back 12h, that would be between midnight and late night, closer to the dawn than dusk) and before it ended, he and Vin died - I feel like it would be somewhere around the evening/midnight if Vin didn't rotate the planet. So it would mean Vin held Preservation for around 24h, but that depends when during the previous night she Ascended - if closer to dawn then less than 24h, if closer to dusk then a bit more. Vin left Fadrex in ch 67, but we don't know if the entire day passed or not (probably not as Elend could make it to Luthadel before the afternoon, and he was worse at horseshou trick than Vin) - that would mean Vin Ascended closer to the dawn than dusk, so less then 24h had passed with Vin as Preservation. What season did HoA take place? Winter?

Yes, yes you can. It isn't confirmed by Brandon, but from what we know already, Connections can give you a lot of things. To have chances at becoming an Elantrian you just need a Connection to Arelon, a strong one - this can be done with Duraluminmind of course. But then you have just a strong Connection to Arelon, you have to be lucky to be taken by Shaod and undergo a transformation, turning you into an Elantrian - it's possible if you have a proper Connection, but you have to wait for it. An Elantrian can use Duraluminmind to store his Connection to Elantris and later tap it, when he's far away from it, and that will allow him to overcome the location dependency of AonDor. A duralumin Ferring can use Connection to make it easier to bond with multiple spren. You can even break into Hemalurgic constructs as a Connection Ferring. But you won't gain Breaths. Breaths are given to you at birth, they are tied to your Identity. Connection won't give you that. You might be able to make yourself more likely to Return, but non-natives can already Return, because Endowment is choosing those who will Return.

Because Radiants have their soul merged with super-invested sapient spren, who grants them Surgebinding powers, so a spren might take the majority of Savantism changes, which won't affect a spren that much, as they have no physical body. In Hemalurgy you have a non-sapient, and also not aware piece of a soul, a tiny bit invested compared to a spren. Hemalurgy also physically changes your body - a spike won't protect you from Savantism as it's a tiny bit compared to the worth of your soul. Both Radiants and Hamalurgists can become Savants, so this doesn't matter in this discussion. Well, you have a connection, filling cracks in your soul, to a sapient piece of investiture, which gives you powers via this connection. You can make it sound very similar even if they're not exactly the same. A Connection is still a Connection. Stealing bonds from others and bonding with something that is already a part of your soul is vastly different. Can you bond with your own soul? This doesn't make sense in my opinion, that's why I think your idea isn't possible. I also think that because the piece of soul inside of a spike is not even self-aware, not to mention any sapience or sentience, you won't be able to bond it even if it's outside of your body. Can you even bond a spren that's stuck in a gemstone or fabrial?

But a Radiant still can become a Savant so what's the problem? A spirit web is just a bunch of Connections, and spikes take a part of it and add it to your spirit web. Allomancy is a Connection, a bond between you and Preservation, and that's not very different from a Nahel Bond. What I tried to say is that the magic system would likely define Hemalurgy as a bond, just like a Nahel Bond, in the same way the system defines a Shardblade as already Awakened. I feel like your question doesn't make much sense from the magic point of view - can you bond something that's a part of your soul - it's already a part of your soul, already bonded with you.

I don't find it very surprising as that's precisely what Kelsier is right now - he's a "spren" bound to PR via Hemalurgic spike.

I think every Hemalurgic spike is technically considered to be bonded with you - after all, its charge is merged with your spirit web, just like a spren bonded with their knight via the Nahel Bond.

Binding points won't match in most cases. A Hemalurgic construct has usually very decreased mental capacity, so it might be hard to do that. But a werewolf with Mistborn powers would be cool. Overall I think such idea, or a similar one is quite feasible, as it's not very different from Warbreaker spoilers: I think with spikes it will be similar, either you suppress the entire spike or not - no suppression of individual charges inside a spike. It still can give you quite an advantage, as you might just spike yourself 10 times (and still expose yourself to Harmony) but suppress like 6-7 spikes of your choice. Tbf I think we take the threat of exposing yourself to Harmony too seriously. Unless you want to be like the Set or Paalm and act directly against Harmony's interests, you will be fine walking around with 4 or more spikes, as you are the necessary Ruin balancing Preservation, and this is not against Harmony's Intent, even if Sazed dislikes that. SoS ch 7:

This one you've posted is more recent so I guess he decided and you can steal Breaths with spikes. I don't think it is the same. The term "investiture" is used both to mean "invested art" but also just "raw investiture". Based on WoBs and information from BoM and TLM we are able to determine which meaning applies to which art. There is no such conflict of different meanings with memories and copper. And because tables and Ars Arcanum are made by in-world people, who don't understand what nicrosil can do, its description is not precise yet.

Wax isn't a Savant, Brandon changed his mind because Wax had no negative consequences of being a Savant. But if you can steal it, you could have consequences of being a Savant without even having the power. That can be painful.

Nicrosil steals a piece of a soul - that's innate investiture usually. Elantrains are quite invested, without actively channeling the Dor (that's kinetic investiture). You would get their innate investiture, and that's raw investiture keyed to Devotion mostly. It would be like stealing Preservation's fragment by a Set scientist in TLM, but from somebody much, much more invested than a regular person is. Elantrains are very invested. If an Elantrian is actively channeling the Dor, you could steal even more from him, as you could steal that kinetic investiture as well. But Elantrians are constantly connected to the Dor, they are constantly unconsciously drawing from the Dor to be healed, stop aging, to glow and look like they do. You can steal quite a lot of raw investiture from them. You don't get powers from it, you don't get a spike that would make you into Elantrian, you just get raw investiture. If you want to become an Elantrian via Hemalurgy, you have to steal the Connection to Arelon (duralumin) and also the ability to go through the transformation (no idea, Atium spike maybe?) - you need two spikes. Yumi spoilers: This one?

That's why I asked "why" as there is a being controlling Returning and she had some reasons to make both pairs of siblings into Returned. Statistically it doesn't make sense. So why did she choose them or why did they become Returned? Them being just noble and heroic before their death doesn't work for me - those people started Manywar, are responsible for countless deaths and creation of effective and terrifying weapons. Where is their nobility or heroism in those actions? On the other hand they all were scientists as Returned, and that's where I'm searching connections. Not really because Vasher had no opportunity to accomplish what he Returned for: Also Endowment is looking for certain things when choosing, but those aren't specific tasks for them to fulfill in the future, she isn't good at being consistent with it, and possibly isn't human. So why did she choose two pairs of siblings? Why unpredictable and inconsistent Shard chose 4 of them together to Return?

What heroic or noble deeds did a baby born dead do to deserve a Return? Brandon said that Endowment is a bit erratic when it comes to Returned. It's also a human interpretation of reasons for Returned to return, not the real reason - we don't know why Endowment chooses people to Return. For me this is not convincing.

It's NOT possible. You need Cognitive entities for that. Two spren can form a Nahel Bond, but two humans can't. Kelsier isn't a human anymore, he is a Cognitive Shadow, he is a Cognitive entity. The same kind of bond as the Nahel Bond exists with Seons and even Nightblood, but the benefits in those cases aren't really big and visible - people don't get a lot of great powers from bonding Nightblood or Seons. Technically every native animal on Roshar forms a Nahel Bond with lesser spren, and you don't see them using Surges.

I still don't think that's possible in such a way. There is a merger of souls involved with the Nahel Bond - spren fills the cracks in the soul of their knight, but as you know, they are merely aware of each other and both get something vastly different from such a bond. But this involves Cognitive entities, not two humans. I don't think you could do the same with two humans, as both have different identities, and more importantly now that I think about it, both have physical bodies, and separate minds. And Feruchemical aluminum blanks identity, yes, it might help, but I still don't think you could do what you want. At best you would get something like a Nahel Bond or Hemalurgic control.

Sadly, we don't know. Fortune is a Spiritual property related to seeing/feeling the future and a way to access the Spiritual Realm. It's a way of knowing things you would not know otherwise. But there is nothing about Destiny. I think the closest thing to destiny is in RoW:

I don't think that would work at all. Identity would mess everything up and prevent it from working. At best you could achieve something like Hemalurgic control that Vin does with Koloss/Kandra - but a complete merger of two spiritwebs seems to be, at least for me, impossible.

The Set in TLM most likely used nicrosil spikes as they were stealing raw innate investiture from 20-30 people with a single spike, and that has to be a nicrosil spike - it has a potential to grant powers. You can steal Breaths with it too, maybe even a Divine Breath. I think nicrosil spike has a big potential that we simply can't see yet, because we know too little about it. Maybe you can steal Sliverism or Savantism, you can steal investiture from a spren, form Cognitive Shadows, Elantrians etc. While yes, each spike damages you, each spike also makes you more invested, and the more invested you are, the more resilient you are to certain influences of investiture. Becoming more invested can make you into a Cognitive Shadow - that's very useful. No, F-nicrosil stores only abilities, not raw investiture, nicrosil spikes steal only raw investiture, which is a part of a soul, but not any abilities. You can store Allomancy in a nicrosilmind, but you can't steal it with a nicrosil spike. Look at the WoB. Both tables use the term "investiture" but this can mean both the ability like Allomancy, and raw investiture.

Not Cognitive Shadows. It's investiture, and involves some kind of corruption of it. It has some kind of mind and can be attached to a greater entity, like Midnight Aether or Re-Shephir, but also can be extracted and used independently. You can control it via Luhel Bond which is a temporary bond involving trade - they get something they want, you get to control them in return. Midnight Essence takes the form of living creatures, generally imitating what's near them. Here, the coppermind page about it: Midnight Essence While Brandon said that the Shroud is not a true Midnight Essence, the similarities are clearly intentional and that's because the Midnight Essence is a broader Cosmere term, just like Lightweaving - the nature of Cosmere interpreted what the Father Machine did as something close to a Midnight Essence. In this case the difference seems to be that in Midnight Essence the personalities of all individual creations are very similar to each other, while in the Shroud the personalities are all unique, because they are Cognitive Shadows (per 1st WoB in my previous post). So I think that the Shroud is not a true Midnight Essence but it's kind of borrowing from it and it's based on the same rules with the exception being the Cognitive side of it. It's hard to say as we don't have a clear definition of what the Midnight Essence is.

He did marry the daughter of a king of Khlennium, and spent a decade leading armies and uniting Scadrial, so I think it's very likely he had kids. WoA epigraphs ch 9&21: He was also a natural, but very weak Seeker, strengthened by a Hemalurgic spike giving him more powerful A-bronze - however his power came from Mist snapping, and thus was very, very weak, much weaker than Misting from Vin's period, because those were strengthened by Lerasium beads given to kings by Rashek. Unfortunately I highly doubt Rashek after Ascension allowed his family to live, as they were a direct threat to his claims and a reminder of a "legitimate" Hero of the Ages. I bet one of the first things he would do is to kill them to remove any association to the previous ruler of Khlennium and Alendi, as they would be one of the fiercest opposition against his claims of being the true Hero of the Ages. I'm almost certain he would never give Lerasium beads to members of Alendi's family and thus any surviving descendants would not become either Mistborn nor even Mistings, as without Mist Snapping, their Allomantic potential would be too weak to be awakened. But that's your story. You can easily say that one of his kids survived the slaughter of Alendi's family and had a secret romance with one of childrens of bribed kings, from which your character, now having strong Allomantic genes, was born. Of course they would have to hide and conceal their true identity fearing Rashek. As mentioned previously, the Time Machine allows you to avoid RoW spoilers entirely, but you can safely read any Mistborn Era 1 articles on Coppermind. Alendi page contains information from the original trilogy, plus just a few WoBs and that's it. You can also read epigraphs from Era 1 books (especially TFE and WoA as they talk directly about Alendi), or WoB annotations for more information.

No. They look similar, yes, but the Shroud is not a Midnight Essence. The Shroud is raw investiture striped off its identity - it's more like the dark smoke that leaks from Nightblood, as both him and the Father Machine are Awakened objects feeding on investiture, and the Shroud is a leftover from the souls the machine fed on, just like the dark smoke leaking from Nightblood. But the Shroud is also made out of Cognitive Shadows. Maybe, but not like that. Nightblood contains Ruin's investiture and the dark smoke leaking from Nightblood is corrupted investiture - not red. Nightblood most likely corrupts and changes consumed investiture into Ruin's investiture, thus the smoke is black. But Ruin's investiture isn't "decayed" investiture just because Ruin is Ruin, it's normal investiture keyed to Ruin and that's it. It's black for the same reason Preservation's investiture is white, Cultivation's green or Honor's blue, but it's not "decayed" investiture.

That's not "more powerful Awakening" that I'm talking about. If you have 25 Breaths and you made a strawman which requires 25 Breaths at minimum, with your hair as a focus like Vasher did in prologue, it would still cost you 25 Breaths to Awaken such strawman with your hair even if you have 50000 Breaths, and it would still do the same thing. The cost of Awakening isn't reduced the higher your Hightening is. Your second to last, bolded sentence is wrong. 50 Breaths will do the same no matter how many Breaths you have. Awakeners with more Breaths don't care about making their objects in human shape and with a focus, they just push more Breaths into an object and it does the same thing as the cheaper one. The strength of an Awakened object doesn't depend on the amount of Breaths you used to Awaken it. This is in contrast with Surgebinding - the more Ideals you swear, the more efficient you are with your use of Stormlight. A Windrunner of 4th Ideal can do more Lashings, or heal more, than a Windrunner of 1st Ideal with the same amount of Stormlight. Awakening doesn't work like that.