WhiteLeeopard

Eh, I'm pretty sure Adolin doesn't think Kaladin shouldn't have a shardblade. He is after all the one that offered him a full set of Shards on WoR before Kaladin showed himself as a Radiant. I think those two just are in a relationship where both will swear up and down that they think the other is lowly/arrogant but inwardly are fond of each other. (Not meant in a romantic way, before anyone starts). I think their friendship with each other is good for both to get over their respective class prejudices. Adolin never treated darkeyes badly, but he is used to deference and thinks he should rule. Kaladin is a way for him to see there is nothing divine in his rule and to see darkeyes as equals. And Kaladin of course is highly anti-lighteyes, he put Dalinar into a special box from day one. So Adolin is his way of accepting not all lighteyes are evil, and some are even very nice and good people. In a way, also to learn to see lighteyes are equals and not different than anyone else . I even think the reason why Adolin is a good way for Kaladin to get over his prejudice is that Adolin is all that he hated about lighteyes: rich, spoiled, commanding hundreds since he was 16 etc. Which is probably why it took Kaladin so long to accept he respected Adolin nevertheless.

I haven't read all the pages, but since I didn't see this on the edited versions I will add it anyway. When talking of the traitor I see it more like this: The traitor, broken by ambition, seeks freeform. (The italics are mine to enhance what I see different).

I suspect this will be the case only for absolute leaders of radiants. Dalinar is setting himself up as an ultimate rosharan leader, so he can't be a leader of a small princedom in a corner of the world. Shallan is not planning on becoming queen of Roshar anytime soon, so she will probably be fine. If every radiant has to renounce their titles it would defeat the purpose of the first wave spren picking influential people to bond.

Honor by itself is definetely far from perfect. You could easily make a case that what happened to the Heralds was Honor's fault. What he did was basically send 10 elite soldiers to eternal war, hell and horror with zero recompense. Thats not only inhumane but impossible to keep up. Then, there are definetely foolish oaths. What if you swear to never let an enemy know peace in a moment of rage? Or to rape and plunder an entire kingdom in a moment of grief? Or without looking too far the Vengeance Pact? That been said, what we have seen from Cultivation by herself also worries me. Its far too deadly, focused and one dimensional. The best KR orders so far I think are those that show signs of both honor and cultivation. Those too much on one side seem dangerously unbalanced. It may be T is an agent of Cultivation as many think, but I do seem him as evil. One does not prevent the other. Some say that evil is not so easy to define. Well. T murders, he lies, he hides, he breaks and destroys, he brings grief and destruction on a scale that makes Gavilar and his conquest seem an icepick next to an iceberg, he takes the easy path, he doesn't look for another better way. Together those are enough for me to mark him one one side of the coin.

That doesn't work as a theory for the recreance because of some orders. Yes, it might be enough for windrunners and edgedancers to walk away. But lightweavers and elsecallers? Not likely. In fact I suspect Jasnah and maybe even Shallan would have condoned the wholesale slaughter of all the parshmen before the everstorm. And those are just four of the orders, the other six might go either way.

Hmm, my bad, I thought it was briefly mentioned at some point on one of his two appearances, but apparently not.

Its possible Jasnah (or an Elsecaller) could partially take him there. Maybe lightweavers and willshapers could also show a glimpse to non-surgebinders. But too late and too tired to consider in detail if this is possible. So idea without backing.

What I'm most curious about is why Navani said the queen could handle the kingdom and came to the warcamps. Was Navani blind? Or was the queen like Elhokar pretending to be a good queen when under supervision, to then fall under excesses as soon as her mother in law left?

The idea of Dustbringer radiant with T has probably been a merge of different theories. One of the current candidates for radiancy is Redin, bastard son of ex-king of Jah Keved. He is brave, obedient, has a Rhyshadium and has appeared on screen a few times. However, while I believe Redin will become a radiant I highly doubt he will work for or under T. At least not once he has another viable option, or not if he is aware of all the truth (Shallan and Jasnah were fooled by T after all). I think T has a radiant, but I'm not so certain they are from the Diagram. Using an innocent radiant to gain full Dalinar's trust seems something T might do. On topic, I agree Dalinar politician bores me to death. I still suspect that Dalinar is doing something wrong. Can't put my finger on what, but something feels off. Not sure if his role as bondsmith, or leader, or what.

I think we found from somewhere that Dalinar took his kids with him on campaigns from early on, as otherwise he wouldn't see them at all. But not sure from how early. They did also say Adolin started training as a warrior when he was six, so could have been since then. I don't see any problem with Adolin's behavior. Sadeas was a crem who already took up too much of their time when he was alive, no point in dedicating any more of their time and energy to him while dead. If there had been a legal way of dealing with him I would be singing a different tune. But there wasn't. Brutal societies with people above the law lead to brutal solutions. The end.

Betrayer of Hope The problem of doing the wrong things for the right reasons is that it is not too long before you start making the wrong things for the wrong reasons, or just the wrong things because its what you are used to.

I'm always willing to see how things progress with time. Time is the most important factor, not everything has to be done on the first week, but if they keep progressing and don't stagnate it will be okay. The biggest part will be their reaction to the other's lies. If they feel betrayed and break trust then there goes that relationship. If they embrace the other's lies and accept the person with the lies included I will firmly maintain their relationship is there to stay. Until that crucial moment nothing is set on stone with those two.

True. Maybe the promise should have been better phrased as "to not give up early" or to "continue past the hard stages" to be more meaningful.

Of course there isn't love there yet. But I prefer to see fondness first, then trust, then love. It feels more organic than love, then trust someday and fondness forgotten .

I'm not sure why everyone is convinced the promise not to screw up is horrible foreshadowing. Many (myself included) think Brandon writing another arranged marriage which works out perfectly is unlikely. But another angle to look at, is that this is simply an idea Brandon believes about life and wants to make clear: any relationship in which both parties try and invest time will work out. The eventual buildup also feels a lot more natural than the usual love-at-first-sight-for no-good-reason trope. I was also a bit disturbed by the new personna, although I couldn't put my finger on why. I suspect because it makes her avoid the issue, but mainly because its a lie to Adolin. I'm fine with them leaving their past lies in the past for now, but creating new lies...thats where I get worried about their future chances. On May Aladar, maybe she will be a secret society member, or a love interest to someone. However, she is basically Aladar's partner at the moment since his wife is not there. She plays the role of scribe, correspondant, etc. She is basically unoficial Highlady Aladar. Title isn't official but its her influence. Why she is sending reports on the murders is simple, Aladar is highprince of information in charge of investigating the murder. Adolin is Dalinar's liason on the murder. There is going to be heavy swap of reports between the two sides. But yes, more can come from her in future.

Shalash broke her own statue in Alethkar, Gavilar had it on reparations. Whenever the nine mentions come up they can be taken as the 9 unmade, or what I tend to do, as the 9 heralds to abandon their posts. Also, Ash's eyes were mentioned earlier. They are said to be light violet and very beautiful. May be a curse of shock when something is very beautiful and you are impressed in a good way.

Yes, I considered putting that between 2 and 3, but decided to leave spren out as its a very rough timeline.

I am not sure if the new parshmen non-voidbringers will necesarily copy the parshendi. The impression I got so far is: Listeners were in Roshar Humans and Shards arrived Odium appropriated the Listeners/the Listeners went to Odium for power Rebel group or more strong willed among the Listeners splintered away to embrace dullform and became Parshendi Humans forced slaveform upon all the remaining Listeners, they became Parshmen Considering the time that has passed, and that the Parshendi basically abandoned the Parshmen I'm unsure if there will really be two sides of conflict here (humans, parshendi and parshmen) or two (humans and voidbringers) with parshendi going to either side.

This. Poor parshendi (I'm not sure what to call these non-voidbringers yet, so will stick with parshendi till I find out official name). I could see Kaladin becoming their champion/leader. But he would first need to get rid of the voidspren (I'm pretty sure its a Voidspren, shrill voice, fools?). It might be they have a voidbringer or a few on the tents, and they are bound to the voidspren, leading the group. And if Kaladin got rid of their leaders at the moment it won't be a great way to make headway. I'm not sure if Voidbringers could detect Radiants, I'm going to go with no since Shallan and Kaladin never noticed each other. Only time Syl looked up was during the duel, and both spren were highly active at the time. I could see Kaladin taking the parshendi to Urithiru under his protection, its supposedly huge, he could get a section of the city for them. But its true with their low skills it might be hard for them to make headway. And I wouldn't be surprised if given the choice between becoming 3rd rate workers for their slavers or becoming Voidbringers and killing their slavers they would pick option 2. Most at least.

Pattern as chaperone was adorable The entire Shallan and Adolin scene was really sweet. Their relationship is expanding and becoming more complex. They both still have deep secrets, but they are opening up Seems that Shardblade training for women will happen fast with no quibbles Dang, Kaladin empathizing with parshendi already. And really heavily. I expected this to happen but later on the book and not so strongly. Also seems there was a voidbinding spren keeping control of the group. But the parshendi definitely seemed parshendi, no void spren inside them.

I've skipped some posts, will reread later in more detail if have time. On Shardplate stormlight during the chamsfiend hunt: I was under the impression it was Graves and company. Dalinar says the balcony is the same modus operandi, make it look like an accident or blame someone else. Graves also says he was trying to make the assasination less obvious, but he saw it was a mistake and had to do it openly. On Kholinar: Pai started the revolution condemning the queen, the lighteyes, and the basic Vorin ideals. Not sure if the king was included, but the lighteyes surely were. Lastly, Calderis and Extesian, sorry, I upvoted you, then remembered it was release day and took them back as I'm 100% sure I'll need them in a few hours ^^. Will come back to return them if I rememeber in a couple of days.

That would be interesting. Howerver, 3 points: I would almost like it if the Hierocracy was just greedy men wanting power, as it would show corruption and selfishness will inflitrate everything after some time I'm pretty sure the Skybreakers acted on their own and didn't tell anyone that they were remaining behind. Maybe Nale was behind their choice, but if he was he told them to keep it quiet. I suspect there is still something else. We have yet to see the entire reasoning on why the recreance happened

Hihihihih, I know, I studied that period of history in detail. But there were 2 paramilitary groups going on around then. SS is the most famous, but SA was also pretty big till they were betrayed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

I don't know, Renarin as highprince doesn't fit in my mental image. I think he would neither do a good job of it nor be happy in the position. Then again I don't really fit Adolin as highprince for some reason, maybe I just need time to consider the princedom on anyone's hands other than Dalinar .

Elhokar punishing Adolin harshly and stripping him of rank after Adolin is Highprince (which technically even the king doesn't have the authority to do) opens up another whole host of problems. Who would take the Kholin princedom? The title of highprince goes to whoever can convince the lords of the princedom to choose to follow him. Normally it goes to the heir because afer years of grooming the lords will follow the heir easily. For Adolin its easy as he is liked, even loved by his men, has been leading them to war for over a year, oh yeah and he made a bunch of them Shardbearers weeks before. Lets say Adolin is removed by Elhokar after Dalinar has abdicated to show strength in his rule. Kholinar princedom then goes to: Renarin. The men either think Renarin is creepy, or mildly like him. Problem is he is not a warrior, nor a great organizer like Sebarial. Alethkar may be on its way to change, but it won't for a while yet, and at the moment warriors are at the top of the pyramid. Only reason they would follow Renarin is respect for Dalinar. Problem, it would still circumvent Elhokar's authority as Dalinar would act as highprince and highking. Elhokar. Everyone would say Elhokar then removed Adolin out of greed to get the princedom for himself. Someone else. Princedom falls out of control of the Kholins. None of these really solidify strength of rule for Elhokar. I'm starting to wonder if the situation will just be solved by the lords of Kholin princedom and the lords of Sadeas princedom.