The Technovore

I'm currently re-reading TFE, it talks about Kelsier and Vin pulling metal to their hands all the time. Literally using the language "pulled [the metal] to [his/her] hand." Now, mechanically it's probably that the metal is going to their center-of-mass and they're just shifting slightly to catch it with their hand instead, but that's probably where @Quantus got the impression.

--an honorary doctorate in the humanities.

Nah, she'd find a way to intimidate the stone into becoming chicken dung. ;P Idk, Bejardin, I get what you're saying with murder being murder, and he is characterized as the hothead that's the whole "hold me back! hold me back! lemme at em!" shtick, and maybe he is more aggressive than the average Alethi, but I think that would be cause the average Alethi is a civilian. Literally a farmer. He's a noble that's grown up at the edge of a battlefield, his best friends are soldiers, and his peers are psychopathic noblemen. That said, there is a difference between killing a man and having anger management issues. Anger management issues are characterized by bouts of rage, outrage, and attempting to use anger to control others. They are especially marked by an inability to control their emotions--demonstrating the same maturity of a 2-year-old, which suggests something wrong in the psychology if not in the biology. Adolin doesn't use anger to control others, nor does he demonstrate an inability to control himself. If he did have anger management issues, he would have a reputation in the taverns for being destructive, he would be avoided by subordinates that he had previously met, he would be rumored about, Dalinar would've been treating him differently, he would not be getting so many suitors, and Sadeas would've known not to goad him. He used anger to try and get Sadeas off the Kholin's backs, and eventually used anger to remove the evil man that deserved to be killedIdon'tcareifit'smurderI'mLashinghimintotheskydon'ttrytostopme. You can demonstrate he's a murderer. You can proof he was probably angry when he murdered. That does not necessarily translate into anger management issues. EDIT: If you want to look at anger management issues, take a look at Camon, or Straff Venture from Mistborn. Or take a look at Gaz before Kaladin intimidates him into submission, or perhaps the more psychopathic Lamaril.

I appreciate the appreciation, I think a twinborn combination that could make the equivalent of a Seer would be A-Electrum/F-Zinc, the tapped zinc replicating the mind-enhancing effects of Atium. I am in full support of "TerrisPlate", I think it would be awesome, but the main point being that Allomancy only burns so fast means that a Iron-Compounder in full iron plate would be able to be really heavy for a really long time. Cool, but not galaxy-breaking cool. Also, concerning the whole "Bondsmiths and Metalborn", I've done some discussing with other knowledgeable Sharders, and have determined it to be "Unlikely to Impossible", because a Spiritweb is made up of Connection+Investiture, Connection being more "strands of time" and your destiny than your abilities. We'll have to see whether a Bondsmith has full Spiritweb manipulation, but from what we know at RoW, there's no reason to believe it will happen The thing with this is that while Hemalurgy is detestable, I wouldn't see the Skybreakers disagreeing with it if it was an enemy combatant and the practice could be done in the form of a quick execution. I can similarly see most of the other Orders having similar rationalizations, remember, with Honor dead there's no governing oversight on Oaths and Surges. It's literally a plot point that the Radiants have the power to potentially crack their planet open right now. The only group I can really see objecting would be Bondsmiths and Windrunners, but due to the autonomy of the individual orders, in this hypothetical I would not rule out at least some Radiant+Metalborn Rosharans. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Someone brought up Scadrial representing the chaotic alignment and Roshar representing the lawful. Lawful alignment tends to facilitate greater technological speed. It's also literally a plot point that Scadrian technological development has slowed due to NoScad being coddled. @Bigmikey357 is right that Roshar already has an equivalent of the Manhattan project that has already discovered splitting the atom at Urithiru. Urithiru's not going to disappear in the 20 years leading up to their position in this hypothetical. I wouldn't rule out Scadrial doing something similar once the war has begun, but I would call it a plot hole if SA 8 had Scad and Roshar in the throes of civil war and Roshar wasn't doing anything to catch up. That's my argument, again, agree to disagree. You're right we don't see Stormlight resisting emotional allomancy, because this is all a hypothetical, but we know that kandra are resistant to emotional allomancy, as are Koloss, as are mistborn (most especially copper-burning) because of their invested nature. It's a principle of the cosmere that Invested object resist being manipulated by Investiture, therefore it is not a fallacy to assume that a Radiant would be resistant to Zinc and Brass. Psychological warfare, like @Frustration, absolutely viable. Brass and Zinc not so much. I'm actually with @BenduLuke on the Radiant Scadrian thing. Windrunners, Bondsmiths, Skybreakers, and a few other orders would definitely see spren taking sides, but spren are capable of rebelliousness and some types value different things than others. Just like some Orders but not others would justify hemalurgy, some spren but not most would justify bonding with Scadrians. I want to bring up Fabrials again. We don't know a ton about this magic system yet, but I suspect that Fabrials will be to Roshar as Hemalurgy is to Scadrial--the thing that really opens up the system to all kinds of unique and game-changing effects. 15 years before Era 2 Scad Roshar is working out how to replicate (poorly) some of the Surges, and if they can make some of the Heralds sane combined with Navani they could do a lot of incredible things. There's a lot of combinations between gem types, metal types, and spren, which means we could have a lot of effects that could be used for non-Radiant shock troopers to annoy the Scadrians. Painrials are definitely one thing, especially useful since they're at range. I could see some fabrial that acts like a-chromium, or inflicts the effect of storing f-steel, or just straight up blocking investiture of all types. I could see fabrials-and-medallion science absolutely being the arms race of the War, which admittedly the Scadrians would have the advantage on since they can mess with medallions in a way that the Rosharans really can't.

Or Kaladin, Mr. "I don't care if it's my dad's clinic or the middle of a staff meeting touch him and I'm tearing you apart?" (This is a joke Kaladin isn't a passionate killer most of the time)

Heh, coming in a little hot there, Leuthie. Did ya not read the entire thread? Because pretty much everyone's in agreement that Adolin has no anger issues, and even the OP only said "I've seen this around the Shard, what do y'all think?" Your point is well made though, I like what you brought up about having a provokable temper is actually a healthy thing.

Sorry, I knew what you meant but my grammar was crappy. That was meant to say "...so the Bondsmiths could step IN, to enhancing themselves with captured metalborn." Lol, I like imagining Tanavast coming back from the dead just to slap the unfettered Bondsmiths for completely breaking the system and making everyone into Shards. EDIT: I check to see if the WoBs had anything to say about Bondsmiths endowing abilities--apparently no one's thought to ask along this line of thought. The spiritual side of Bondsmiths is not well understood so it could be possible. I almost hope it isn't for the Cosmere's sake.

Then they were dipped in chocolate.

A few Radiant Orders might seriously object, but I think the Rosharans in the middle of a planet-scale conflict wouldn't have a problem using Hemalurgy if they found out it existed. They'd do everything from spiking metalborn so the Bondsmiths can step to enhancing themselves. Which could then lead to them identifying what it is that makes the metalborn metalborn, which could lead to Bondsmiths just endowing their Radiants with Feruchemy and Allomancy... oh no how terrifying, Surely Bondsmiths can't actually just make people metalborn. That'd be so stupidly broken, no way Sanderson allows that. (Give Hoid Feruchemy and he'd be so Invested he could punch T-Odium in the face in all three realms.)

I thought of a cool thing I could see the Scadrians doing for their shock troops. And a way Iron Compounders could be very useful. Terrisblades I think the thing with Twinborn combinations is that if Scadrial decided to throw their morals out you don't necessarily need to wait for the right Twinborn to be... born. You could just... use some spikes on some Misting and Ferrings... and make as many compounders as you want Sazed wouldn't be happy with that though. Another thought... Bondsmiths have a lot of Spiritual Realm powers, the ability to see and mess with Connections, and amazing things like that. We haven't seen the full extent or limits of their abilities yet. Couldn't it be possible for a Bondsmith to just... make some metalborn? Because it's not like the Nahel bond where it requires oaths with living Investiture... it's a line in your Spiritual DNA that says "This person can burn metals" or "This person can screw around with their own Spiritweb". If a Bondsmith was skilled enough couldn't they just... put that line in there? I might be totally off, but I thought it was worth bringing up. How terrifying would a Mistborn Windrunner be?

Fair enough, the bit with Electrum vs Atium was weakest part of the whole thing, I appreciate being held to honesty like that I forgot they actually made the planet, that's interesting, but the point about the mechanics still stands I suppose.

Title says a little bit of it. The premise of this little... game, I guess?.. is to tell us about the type of cosmere magic you'd like to have in your life if you could. I believe this type of thing has been done before, but it's been a couple years so... I thought I'd bring it up again. Now, since a hypothetical can come with a lot of questions, I thought I'd help by defining some variables about the world such a hypothetical would take place in; that way, for example, being a Rosharan and dealing with Odium isn't a requirement for being a Radiant. This hypothetical takes place on a version of Earth where --Earth is a Shardworld being watched over by Adonalsium, which means that: --Earth has access to every form of Investiture we see in the cosmere, including: --Spren including "truespren" "voidspren" and the nightwatcher, Seons and Skaze, Kandra, Aviar, and any other living Investiture I forgot --Plantetary Rythms --Stormlight and Voidlight renew in Lunar Cycles, Stormlight infuses at the Full moon, Voidlight at the New moon. --Sand has the same properties as on Taldain --Soulstamping, Aons, and Dakhor-magic are viable in any continent --Humans each come with a Breath --Atium and Lerasium are not obtainable, but Ettmetal is. --Everything else is pretty much the same. --No Fullborns, Halfborns (Mistborn+Ferring/Feruchemist+Misting) are the limit, sorry, I know they're cool, but we all know they're broken. That said, for me it's a toss up between Full Feruchemist and Windrunner, but I think in the end I'd have to go with Windrunner. The power of flight, the energy of stormlight, the affable, beautiful, intelligent (don't forget fierce) and fierce honorspren for a companion. Feruchemy comes with many conveniences, I love that system, but laughing at gravity is the ability for me. Looking forward to seeing all of your choices!

Okay, I'm going to put these in spoilered sections because there's a lot I want to cover. Tactics: Chicago PD versus Sun Tzu whew, that's done. Now for my final takedown of Benduluke's concepts of compounding bending fundamental physics. Concerning Compounding That also puts upper limits on the Fullborn's abilities. That's important, because if a Fullborn were able to continue to compound ever increasing amounts, they'd essentially be a Shard already. Oh my goodness I'm writing a book, whew. Alright, I want to keep going by talking about Electrum, Atium, and Copper, and how I think we might be underestimating Mistborn's chances against a Radiant. (I mean BenduLuke probably isn't but--) Electrum & Atium Copper Mistborn Alright, my word processor is telling me I'm at over 2,000 words, so I'm going to stop before I accidentally re-write Elantris. Hopefully this provides some satisfactory analysis and middle-ground for some of these arguments, and I hope a discussion about the applications of A-copper sparks somewhere but I think that could be very interesting. To those who have read all that: Thank you, and good job!

The Chain of Command held the Dawnshard of Narrative Consistency.

They used to be the Ghanderflafle Empire, but then when the Ghanderflaffles soundly defeated them in the Ghander-Bander 1423 ps. Intercosmere Olympics, they were forced to change the name.

Because the Ghanderflafle Imperium was ascending

Completely different from Illinois CORN, the Central Orbiting Recursive Nation was an infinite loop of self-referential bureaucracy and non-euclidean urban architecture IN SPACE.

Technovore decided to save Dii and X from their eternal game of narrative ping-pong and chime in. They shot their sun-bean sun-grown lasers at the CORN.

Okay funny thing actually Nicrosil acts like Duralumin for others, boosting their investiture while consuming it. It's Chromium that makes Leechers. By the way I have a whole thesis on a lot of factors of this topic, specifically regarding tactics, and Smokers, hopefully it could bring some reasonable middle ground to some of the facets of this argument, but first I need to find the time to write it

@Frustration you should show that WoB to the Roshar vs Sel thread and finish off that debate lol. Also, the whole physical/spiritual DNA is weird and complicated, but in TFE we do see it (being metalborn) largely follow the principles of genetics. Honestly, I think it is mostly genetically related, and Sanderson just mentioned the Spiritual DNA so he could handwave away all the mistakes he made in worldbuilding when he first wrote TFE (wanting it to be genetics-based and realizing later that what he wrote doesn't follow the principles of genetics at all) EDIT: @BenduLuke sigh, alright, just saw the coppermind, that is pretty explicit, so I will give the point to you there, and double-check Alloy of Law and HoA and WoA

See the problem with Lightweavers and lasers is the inability to increase energy beyond atmospheric presence. Lightweaving is done by breathing out stormlight to distort, refract, and reflect light in a pattern necessary to simulate a desired object, at least this is how we Shallan and other Lightweaver do this so far. This can be done to form a lens that can refract light in a useful way, like a magnifying glass frying ants, and that would have an effect on the light, but their illusions are based off of atmospheric light, not producing light themselves (I have a bad memory but if someone can point out an example of one of Shallan's illusions actually emitting light, then maybe we could talk). If they are unable to use their Surge to emit light, to bring in a greater amount of energy than is already in the environment, then there is no way that they could reliably produce a laser. We do see Renarin produce light, but he is not a proper Truthwatcher, he's using Voidbinding and that's something different, so we know that Truthwatchers can do this? I don't think so. If the Surge of Illumination can actually produce light, then it's very possible for them to create effective lasers out of illusion, but they do need enough technical know-how to produce an illusion that can reliably pump and focus the light. I don't know about this quanta theory, they might be able to bypass needing it by virtue of their powers skipping steps, but they would need strong mechanical knowledge and some level of physics knowledge to know how to bend their illusion properly.

So in a re-read of mistborn I was struck by the fact that a-copper doesn't just mask rhythms but also makes the user immune to emotional allomancy, and to me that strikes as something very interesting. I went through the archive trying to see if there was anything about copper messing with various forms of Invested magic, and I found that it would mess with singers and spren, but what about Radiants? For example, would a Smoker very near to a Lightweaver be able to dispel an illusion? Or perhaps be resistant if a Windrunner/Skybreaker tried to lash them to the sky? My line of thinking is that copper burning makes the smoker themselves act like a heavily invested object that's difficult to manipulate. Other types of allomancy don't directly affect another person except for bronze, zinc, and brass, (and possibly nicrosil/chromium but we have no confirmation of that, do we?) and copper blocks all of that. Along that line of thinking, a Smoker would also be resistant to surges directly affecting them, right? It would be difficult to target them with a surge, and if copper flaring (which has been RAFO'd repeatedly) extends that ability to those in the coppercloud, that would be very interesting. So in the end my question is: Do we have any WoBs or information concerning Smokers being able to interfere with surges? Or any WoBs or information about Smoker's allomantic immunity to brass/zinc also applying to nicrosil/chromium? Because I can't find any in the archive myself.

@Rune So what I'm seeing is is that you're very Radiant. Literally your lowest score is 50%. Just remember your good ol' shardbuddies when you get bonded and proceed to be the coolest superhero ever? Depending on my answers on a couple of the questions, I'm either Willshaper or Windrunner, with like a 2% difference between them. So either I can fly or can really cause messes everywhere I go. Dope.

Haha, bruv, you could've just made your previous post longer if you were gonna define CORN yourself. ;P The CORN provided both for food and for the State Militia, and when 30 to 50 of them weren't attacking children in backyards, they were fending off Ohio's invasions.

@BenduLuke Well, I highly doubt that Iron compounders will be able to effectively bend gravity and time, and I've done the math on that before on this very thread. I believe we have a WoB that even Shards cannot create blackholes (but no word on stars if I'm not wrong). Besides, the localized kinetic damage on the environment or the Iron Compounder would be significant long before anything in physics would start getting bent. (Seriously, the factor of g is so tiny, and g has to be so ridiculously high before it can effect light or time, the Crasher would sink through the stone into the planet's core and burn up before even getting close.) I actually think there might be potential in Invested Metalminds repelling shards. We see that shardblades and honorblades can't cut each other due to their investiture. I could see an Iron Twinborn compounding their mass to a great degree before filling a new piece of iron armor with all of it, in a way multiplying the Investiture and making it at least shard-resistant. It could be a way of making Scadrian Shardplate--using metalminds instead of stormlight. I feel like that would be the best way of an Iron-Compounder resisting damage, because iirc Iron feruchemy is not actually increasing an individual's mass (that would cause so many questions) but is rather manipulating the user's Spiritweb to indicate a higher amount of mass than is actually happening in the PR, causing the PR to believe that the user is heavier/lighter, and consequently more dense/less dense than they are, thus gravity and density effecting them differently. Most of the effects we see of Wax's feruchemy is actually based on density, not gravity. Because of this, even an extremely "heavy" iron compounder is still just as durable as a baseline human, which means that they'll be cut and damaged just as easily, and if iron-pulling too hard, they'd likely crush themselves as well. (Not likely however, the advantage of F-Iron and A-Iron combined is that your increased weight makes you a better ballast against whatever you're pulling, but you need raw A-iron strength (reverse compounding?) to actually increase the force you're exerting on it)