The Technovore

*cocks head*, interestingly specific wish, but granted, no strings attached. May you do well with the new timeline. At 7:00 am, Mar. 21, you will be inflicted with a bone disease in the leg. It will not be terminal, but will eventually cause that leg to go completely lame. If you are able to get the appropriate surgery to remove it before July 31st, your leg will make a full recovery, and you find it better than ever.

Granted. As a bonus, have some A-Tin Misting powers. Your bane is that every third sentence you speak will come out as modem noises, as well as every third sentence you hear. I wish to never require sleep.

It seems to me that Dalinar doesn't need to necessarily be throwing the entire perpendicularity into Nightblood at once, but simply sate it enough that Nightblood doesn't try to eat him. He doesn't even necessarily need to open a perpendicularity immediately. He could breathe in a bunch of gemstones, and as that's about to run out, he re-infuses the gemstones and breathes in again. In the meantime, he has a sword that can chip honorblades, cut through plate, and kill Shardic Vessels. I'd say it'd be a great option for him. It could only be done temporarily, as eventually either Nightblood would "get full" or consume Dalinar, but while he has it out he could do serious damage to... basically anyone. It'd would be the sort of nuclear option that would only be relevant if he was facing off against a single, very dangerous foe, but in large-scale combat it wouldn't necessarily be more effective than just a deadblade or perhaps a... borrowed sprenbade? Could an Oath 3 knight loan their sprenblade to Dalinar if the spren was willing? Idk.

Cryptics make Lightweavers who can't do anything about Abrasion. You're thinking of cultivationspren, who create Edgedancers like Lift. Please note that making mistakes like this consistently severely weakens your stances on a lot of things because it demonstrates holes in understanding and lack of familiarity with the topic being discussed. Also consider you don't actually know that momentum goes into steelpushes, there is no evidence of that being the case in the books or coppermind. Just like you don't actually know that Radiants would be stupid enough to not know to use a hammer when dealing with an opponent in plate. (see below) Mmmm, that seems like advice everyone could use, and like you seem to be aware, it applies to you as well. It's disingenuous to try to give Scadrial every advantage and to deny Roshar even a smidgen of credit. Hypothetical and complex scenarios like this are only resolved when everyone is attempting to get as close to a balanced approach as possible. Taking extreme and biased positions and forcing a polarized argument obscures facts, forces people to take sides, and severely impedes anyone's ability to take a balanced and honest look at everything. I recognize that in this conversation, it doesn't really matter, we're arguing about a fantasy hypothetical in a book series, but you only have to look at modern politics to see that extremism only begets extremism. I have one. Painrial chain-shot. You know how people take two weighted objects connected with a chain and fling them so they wrap around an enemy? Imagine a projectile like that, except the projectile is also a painrial. Imagine letting loose a net that catches a steelrunner and completely disables them with overwhelming pain. Imagine hitting a Mistborn or Feruchemist or flying Twinborn and knocking them out, just to haul them back so they can grill them for secrets. It would not be difficult for an Oath 4 Radiant to hit an attacking metalborn with a painrial and capture them. Can you consider how quickly Roshar can unlock Scadrian secrets with painrial interrogation? How long would it take Rannette or a member of the Set or Ghostbloods to break after a week or a month of excruciating pain? I looked into this, I'll give you the "touch the radiant before it is summoned block it all together", because we do know that they can do this. However you have little to no basis for nullifying its cutting effect, because shardblades are made from godmetal. They can perhaps damage the blade, but there is no reason to believe that they'd block it. Can a leecher take away Lerasium's ability to make Mistborn? No, but it can destroy the Lerasium without gaining its effect. They'd make the blade smoke and perhaps injure the spren, but it would not stop the spren from severing the Leecher's spine. And you're right, that is an extreme possibility. Since extreme possibilities are totally cool and good for Metalborn, let me give some for a Radiant. It might be possible that a Windrunner Savant could Lash a metalborn from a distance, controlling them casually with just a thought and smashing them into the ground over and over again or sending to space to die. Or a Windrunner could lash boulders or even entire buildings to home in on enemy Metalborn or entire armies and crush them. Or a Windrunner would unconsciously lash away projectiles and even bullets and make them hit the ground instead making the Windrunner impervious to everything but aluminum but Sprenplate can block that and with the Windrunner flying at mach speeds or may even close to light speed they could just outrun the bullets. Skybreakers could easily do all that too. That's disingenuous on multiple levels. "Most of the Radiants" that we see in the books are darkeyed Windrunner soldiers that use spears, and Dalinar used shardhammers and if the Stormfather would let him would probably use them for hammers. The only Radiants we see default to swords are Shallan and Jasnah but they're most familiar with them culturally and have never needed to use anything else. Secondly... really? You called out Frustration and therunner for not brining up their own weird fringe-theories and suggested it was because they were scared or lacked knowledge and when they do, you state "I couldn't see the relevance to the discussion... and I still don't"? My friend... I shall not say more, I do not wish to be more confrontational than I have already been.

Which was inside of a tiny Russian nesting doll.

Alright, I've been silent for a while on this issue, because therunner seemed to have it handled, but at this point I can't anymore. @BenduLuke. NO. Alright? No. From THAT source. ALSO from that source: Okay? m(rel) in those equations indicates the total energy of the object or system, the second equation in that article describes that at negligible speeds the energy of a particle is not much more than that inherent to the particle itself, but expands toward infinity as v becomes closer to c. E=m(rel)c^2 describes the fact that the inherent resting mass of an object actually adds to the total available energy in a system. Secondly, we don't even need to get into the specifics of these equations because of the Conservation of Mass, Energy, and Momentum laws. If accelerating an object causes the mass of an object to increase, where is the mass coming from? Is it coming from the energy? Because that would slow it down very quickly, but in your reading of these equations the loss of velocity would mean the loss of mass. Where is the mass going? Where is the energy going? It makes no sense. The increased energy of a particle moving at relativistic speeds is coming from the velocity itself, that velocity decreases due to friction against other particles and spacetime. Invariant mass is defined as rest mass, and is used in Newton's second law (Force=Mass*Acceleration) Can we be done with this and go back to magic arguing now?

@therunner you deserve more upvotes than I have the power to give

"Where?" asked literally everyone.

Pedantry Moment: I think an Oath 4 Radiant for *most* orders would be able to handle a Mistborn or Feruchemist pretty handily. Mistborn and Feruchemists each only have a couple options for breaking the plate and getting to the meat inside, and the Radiant essentially only needs to not screw-up royally and find a way to touch them with their blade. Like Bejardin said, Fullborns are stupidly broken and have essentially unlimited access to Investiture, as long as they have metal. If the "Full Radiant" included a Bondsmith's Connection and Perpendicularity perks, I think they'd have a better chance, the unlimited stormlight and gravitation could let them bait the Fullborn into using too much metal or their duralumin and win via attrition, but without that "infinite Investiture" the Radiant will lose. But other than that yea I totally agree .

Alright, so from RoW we know that Bondsmiths can steal a spren-bond, as Ishar almost did to Dalinar's bond with the stormfather. It's generally thought that while Bondsmiths have Connection manipulation power, they do not have full Spiritweb manipulation capabilities, because a Spiritweb is Investiture+Identity+Connection. Thus, unfortunately, Bondsmiths just making people magic or taking magic away isn't likely to be a thing from what we know. Bondsmiths might be able to temporarily mess with a magic user's ability to use their powers, perhaps screwing with a Mistborn's Connection so they don't know how to Mistborn and have to start from scratch? But that's my speculation, that might be Identity instead. But, there's a lot we don't know, and Shards aren't so limited, for example we know that Odium could've done a LOT to Hoid's Investiture if he'd felt like it/weren't bound to not harm him.

Different =! Deficient. The Cosmere is a universe that is being governed by multiple sets of laws, Investiture changes everything because it provides easy access to actual mathematical Infinity. The laws of thermodynamics need not apply. Their direction of development is moving toward the exploitation of Shardic power for the betterment of humanity. Roshar having stormlight in place of electricity or mechanical devices does not necessarily equate to ignorance in those fields, nor in the fields of physics. Roshar will look alien and strange next to Scad tech, but just because they're operating by different rules doesn't mean they're at a disadvantage. They will in all likelihood be capable of everything Scad is, and just as competent reverse-enging Scad tech as they are at reverse-enging Roshar tech. Even this does not trap them on Roshar, because stormlight is likely going to be able to be carried off-planet. It's the entire plot with the Ghostbloods.

I like the way you listed the Radiant's power uses. Let me try for the Fullborn's so we get a full comparison. A-Iron/A-Steel, useful depending mostly on the terrain. A mistborn in the city is far more agile than a mistborn in the open air. However combined with F-Zinc they have the potential to go full Magneto with various metal debris, which would pose a problem for the Radiant. A-Pewter, has a lot of effects on body strength and durability, ultimately not going to do much against a sprenblade, but it does provide the same physical alacrity that Stormlight does. F-Pewter turns you into the hulk, which is very easy to obtain with quick compounding. This will also help deal with that pesky plate, we'll see how well Super-Radiant likes getting slammed into the stone a dozen times. A-Tin/F-Tin. Meh. It will help them process things better, and the strategic storing of certain senses could help counter lightweaving shenanigans. Other than that, it isn't going to do much until paired with F-Zinc. A-Zinc/A-Brass. This doesn't do much against a Super-Radiant full of stormlight, but combined with A-duralumin could potentially make the Radiant reckless or depressed, which could easily spell their doom if they let it drop their guard. A-Gold. Lets you compound F-Gold. F-Gold Compounding gives you healing powers about equivalent to a Radiant filled with stormlight, but not much more. It's a good way to even the field. F-Zinc. This is a big one. A lot of Allomantic effects come with some form of mental boost to help control the powers, but F-Zinc cranks this up to 21, especially with compounding. Analyzing Radiant powers, enhanced control of all the various powers they're going through, better ways of interpreting enhanced senses, amazing things with A-Electrum and A-Iron/A-Steel. Very good power, 12/10, look out Radiant. A-Electrum: The Poor Man's Atium, but paired with C-Zinc (compounded Zinc) can be just as potent and effective. Makes the fullborn exceedingly difficult to kill, especially when paired with: F-Steel/C-Steel. How'd you like to be faster than the eye can see? How'd you like to be faster than the sprenblade can swing? How'd you like to be faster than the stormlight can lash? This is almost as effective an "I-Win" button as A-Atium used to be. Unless the Radiant can do something to stop this (which he can, but good luck to him getting it to work when you also have F-Zinc), he's in trouble. Oh boy and I'm only half way through. A-Aluminum. Let's you compound F-Aluminum. The problem is... why would you? What would having compounded Identity even do? idk. A-Duralumin. Very effective for bursts of super-ultra-dopler power, but can only be used once and eliminates the stores of metal. May not be ultimately useful except for ending a battle, but you'd better be dang confident that it does end the battle or you're toast. A-Chromium. It's been mentioned exhaustively--It drains investiture, which is very helpful against Super-Radiant. I would theorize that it could also be used to dispel lashings, which would make the fullborn very difficult to touch. A-Nicrosil, could also cause havoc for the Super-Radiant, but in a different way. Imagine a Radiant about to Lash themselves into the sky and the A-Nicrosil activated Fullborn brushes their leg. I hope Super-Radiant has a plan for getting back to Roshar from SPAAAACCCE. A-Cadmium/A-Bendalloy. May not be particularly useful, except that these speed bubbles can allow the Fullborn to suddenly change position, making at-range attacks very difficult. And obviously compounding. F/C-Electrum. Fullborn's never going to give up. Fullborn's never going to let down. Fullborn's going to run around and hurt you. F/C-Bronze & F/C-Bendalloy. Fullborn's also never going to need a break to eat or sleep. If the Radiant tries running, they're going to be sorely disappointed. F/C-Cadmium. Negates any hopes of Soulcasting his head into stone and watching him drown. F/C-Chromium. This is likely going to just screw with the Radiant's attempts of victory in a variety of improbable ways. Fortune may also be interpreted as random useful insights the Fullborn may receive to win in an improbable way. F/C-Nicrosil. Now, this is interesting. Common consensus around the Shard says that a Fullborn should be able to either make more Fullborns or infinitely increase their power. This sounds broken and unlikely to me, however it's obvious that C-Nicrosil is going to do something stupidly powerful. F/C-Duralumin. ????? Did I miss anything? I'm not going to bother checking. I love the SA, I love Radiants, but when it comes to Fullborns... man. It's going to be very unlikely Super-Radiant can do anything against Fullborn unless Fullborn's super cocky, or ends up being baited into using their A-Duralumin.

Right so, you're making a *small* mistake, and that's in the timeline. We know that Era 2 lines up closely with SA 10. Between SA 5 and 6 there's a 10 year gap, and then a possible 2 to 5 years in the back 5 books (the front 5 so far have been about 2 to 3 years.) Which means that RoW Roshar occurs 10 to 15 years before Era 2 Scad. Time is on Roshar's side. You make the case that Roshar is centuries behind but its brightest minds aren't. Radiants are working with ancient beings all the time--spren, Heralds, Godspren, Fused, etc., and their abilities have the power to disrupt and expand commercial tech a long way--and they have the R&D of Stark Industries over at Urithiru that's literally in the process of replicating surges through Fabrials. Give all that 10 years and you potentially have a very scary planet facing up against a Scadrial that's had virtually no time to unlock their medallion and SoScad tech. There is no mass production of metalminds, or TerrisBlades and Plate, before Roshar already has their own "Unkeyed Surges" up and running and their own war doctrine highly advanced. So your concept of a competent, fully armed, well developed Scadrial prepared for war is not viable given the timelines. I mean, sure, the mechanics themselves are simple, but you need stormlight to make it work, and you need the gemstones. We don't know about the state of gemstone manufacturing on Scadrial, so it may or may not be viable, but the stormlight would pose a problem. And I think if spanreeds can be stolen and reverse-engineered, it wouldn't take long for Navani and her army of scholars to do the same for guns (although, whether they can get working and reliable prototypes while the war is still going is another question... perhaps if they kidnapped Renette...) I mean... sure but... that's asking for a lot of accuracy for that era of guns--most spren don't walk around full-size and for humans they can't be easily found inside the body... not to mention they don't necessarily have to be manifesting in the Physical Realm, although that may be different for Bonded spren. Idk, seems possible, but not... really plausible? At least for most spren.

The Shard of Pedantry. Vessel being Khriss for being too storming scholarly.

Kelsier! Hoid can't kill anyone! He's holding back! The tendons on the ankle are the most tender! Spike him with the Aluminum! WTWTTSW Kelsier just killed Hoid and the Cosmere is doomed?

I love the Metalborn magic system, really it's amazing, but Mistborn doesn't have a plot point around metalborn potentially cracking their planet. Ishar the Bondsmith and the ancient surgebinders tore Ashyn apart, and while Dalinar the Bondsmith isn't likely to do such destructive things with his powers, Navani is very likely to test the limits of the Radiant's newly unchained surges. It's literally an SA plot point that they might end up cracking Roshar. It's also a plot point that Stormlight may be able to get transported off planet, and see in the First of the Dawn sequel that they've succeeded (i.e. the Skybreaker loads some form of energy pack into his new ShardRifle that is very very likely Stormlight). Scadrial's only hope is to make sure they never have to set foot on Radiant home turf (Roshar), and that the Rosharans never figure out how to take their planet-cracking powers to Scadrial, which is why Thaidakar is meddling so hard in RoW. Give all those plot-points 10 to 15 years to develop (remember, it only took a year and a half to go from "Oaths sworn" to "Everstorm created" to "Anti-Light discovered"), and you have a big potential problem for Scadrial. Any offensive Scadrial makes on Roshar is doomed, even with espionage knowledge, because in 10 to 15 years more spren will be bonded, Radiants will be more practiced and more powerful, and more incredible fabrial tech and Investiture theory will be discovered. Any offensive Roshar makes on Scadrial would be very costly indeed, but Scadrial has exactly 0 experience with large-scale combat situations and guns don't make up for lack of military discipline when the enemy has flying, shape-shifting, destructive, energized, planet-crackers on their side. I wouldn't say Roshar wins no matter what, but there's a reason why Thaidakar is so concerned with Roshar. It's a massive threat to the Cosmere at large if they manage to take their powers off-world.

Granted, you are now a Bendalloy Allomancer. You are also now 8' tall with horrible blood pressure and heartrate issues. I wish for a totally dope(tm) Gamer(tm) Computer(tm).

I checked the coppermind, it is in the definition. The problem is that is that there are no sources for that definition. That indicates that the entire thing could be a misconstruing or an oversimplification of the forces in play there (I'm guessing the rules listed are from the Kelsier v Vin practice duel in early TFE). There's nothing in the Arcanum addressing it too, which kind of surprises me. The definition states that "Allomancer Mass is proportional to the strength of the push/pull." That makes little sense to me. If I'm trying to move a giant slab of metal, and I brace myself against an entire building to shove it, that will make no difference, but if I just gain a couple hundred pounds that's going improve my chances? I don't buy it. That same definition also fails to explain the raw strength of the inquisitor that Vin encounters in Kredik Shaw. He was a full grown man, she a small girl, but she'd dueled with Kel plenty of times before, and the book doesn't mention the Inquisitor in question being huge. All this combined with, again, absolutely no citations really makes me question what's missing there. Bendu, your interpretation could be closer to the truth than mine, after all it would also make little sense for a 25-foot titan Coinshot to only have the same power as a 5-foot-tall one. My concern is that the definition is currently unclear and unsourced, therefore unreliable.

He returned from the defunct HEALTAH story arc! He finally figured out that HEALTAH...

This ultimately proved to be irrelevant however...

And then employed a subtle computer auto-trader to exploit the world's stock exchange and currency exchange system to utterly cripple the economy by draining the coffers of every state government, corporation, and stockholder in the world.

Yea, as fun as it would be, the idea that you can store external forces on you like that--it doesn't fit into our current model of Feruchemy, and I highly doubt Brandon would go in that direction. I spent some time pondering the effects of F-Iron on Steelpushing and Ironpulling, and I've concluded that F-Iron does not give you more powerful pushes (I'm going to speak in terms of A-Steel), but only gives you better ballast against what your pushing against. The evidence for this is in TFE. When Kelsier and Vin are training, they get into a steelpushing contest. Kel sends Vin flying, but Vin, quote "Still gave [him] a beating." This shows that Vin had the more powerful Steelpush, but because of her lack of Ballast, still got sent flying. Kelsier felt the effects of her increased pushing power. Later Kel and Vin get into some trouble with the Inquisitors. Vin was shocked multiple times at the strength of their pushes and pulls. They would rip metal from Vin's hands with incredible force, which has little to do with their weight. Inquisitors we know were gifted A-Steel and A-Iron from multiple sources, being more far potent than the average mistborn with those abilities. I'm led to conclude that it's the level of Investiture in the Allomancer that increases their force-of-push or force-of-pull. F-Iron, in my opinion, only allows you to manipulate your ballasting. It makes it so that in a steelpushing contest, you are not the one sent flying. It means that when flying through a city you're less likely to accidentally rip off a flimsy anchor, or you can ensure that you'll be ripping anchors off instead of being lifted away. It's a very similar effect, with an important distinction. I don't believe tapping F-Iron will let you send your coins flying faster. I don't believe tapping F-Iron will increase your chances of ripping open a comically large vault door. I believe F-Iron allows you maximize the ability to apply forces directly to metal objects, but can't increase the forces themselves. You would need a greater Connection to Harmony for that.

Then Mr. Awé$ome Pants jjumped threw the windoe and totally!!!1! espolded the wohle room!!11!1!

Suddenly, a new plot appeared! It was comprehensible, with characters, story, conflict, and triumph, but mostly lots and lots of--

A Smoot being the length between the tip of the Octothorp's beak and the tip the Octothorp's anomalously incomprehensible apendage.