Nyali
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Everything posted by Nyali
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The only info abilities I referenced for "clearing" people either came from one of the three people I completely trusted (one of whom is now dead) or because if they were lies, then the speaker must be a ghostblood and the other person is irrelevant. Please note though that I wasn't clearing people with the info skill stuff. I was trying to figure out who could have done the Ghostblood kill action by process of elimination. If someone doesn't take any action, that's pretty convincing that they didn't do the kill. Alvron was cleared by Elbereth, and Elbereth could be lying, but that means that Alvron wasn't worth considering because Elbereth would have to have been lying for Alvron to have done the kill. To me, someone saying that another person didn't do the kill for certain does remove that other person from consideration because we only need to find one Ghostblood at a time. Last night, either Kynedath, Elbereth, Wilson, Macen, or Sheep performed the kill. At least one of those five is a Ghostblood. In retrospect, I don't think it's Kynedath in light of his attitude toward the game, though it could be faked. He didn't even defend himself after people voted for him. I was waiting for him to say something, but he just didn't care to.
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I never said I thought you did. I simply said that you could have done the Ghostblood kill if you happened to have two roles, but it was impossible otherwise.I was actually saying that I don't think you had two roles.
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Oh, I thought the Midnight Essences were similar, except differently shaped (and weaker). And can't one of the Unmade corrupt and control spren or something?
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Elbereth, I feel like you're stretching a bit there. Still, if Kynedath was active during the night and submitted actions, he's lowest on my trust list who could have done the GB kill action, well, except for Sheep, but Sheep would have to have done two role actions, and the chances of the Ghostbloods having three or more power roles on top of the chances that Sheep was the one who did the kill out of the remaining Ghostbloods on top of the chance that Sheep's other role action was hit by the soulcast instead of his kill... that's quite a lot of chancy things that would have to have happened.
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From the Audio book version: Chapter 7 A rapping came at his window. Hesitant, Wax pulled aside the shade. Wax's face hung there, upside down, his hand holding his hat onto his head. "You done talking to yourself, Wax?" he asked. "I... Yes, I am." "I heard voices in my head once too, you know." Shouldn't that be Wayne's face? The conversation continues, the speaker being clearly referred to as Wayne from there on out. I haven't listened much further yet, but that really stood out. For a moment, I thought Wax was somehow seeing Wayne looking like himself for some reason. He has just been talking to Harmony, after all. But clearly from further context, that makes no sense. EDIT2: There's another point later in the book where Wax's name appears instead of Wayne's (or vice versa?), but I didn't note it down EDIT: Also, I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but when I was converting the audio to a format that my car can play, I separated out the Broadsheets and found what I assume is an error. Michael Kramer describes the first (between Chapters 5 and 6) as the "Upper left quadrant," the second (between Chapters 10 and 11) as the "Upper right quadrant," the third (between Chapters 15 and 16) as the "Lower left quadrant," and the fourth (between Chapters 20 and 21) as the "Lower left quadrant." Because I haven't listened to it all yet, it's unclear which of those should be the "Lower right quadrant." I would guess though that the fourth entry, the one between Chapters 20 and 21, is the one that should have read "lower right." Yeah, the "what"s are correct. If you listen to the audio book, Michael Kramer does an amazing job with Wayne's accents and it's clear (to me) from his presentation that such wording is part of said accents.
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Is Kynedath was around during the night, then Elbereth and Kynedath. We ignored Kynedath because we thought he was 100% inactive and had dropped the game, and were expecting him to be modkilled. Since he just renewed his timer, and we didn't investigate him, I'm going to go with this (unless someone checked him before his post but after the day started and confirmed he hadn't logged in for over 50 hours). Oh, by the way, someone is telling me that I misread Maill's clarification of the Soulcaster rules. If someone is a Ghostblood who is also a Spy or Artifabrian and they performed the Ghostblood kill AND used their role ability, it seems like redirecting their "role" action only has a 50% chance of redirecting the Ghostblood kill. If that's true, then Sheep isn't off the hook. But, for him to be a Ghostblood Spy or Ghostblood Artifabrian, over half of the eliminators must have been given additional power roles... That was unheard of where I used to play this, but maybe it's not unheard of here?
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Err, did anyone check if Kyne was active before this post and could have performed actions last in-game night? EDIT: Kyne - I was the only person so far to successfully stop a Ghostblood kill using a Painrial. It could have been a WGG, but I also led the village into killing our second Ghostblood (Lopen) last day turn by proving he didn't start with the Soulcaster that he had used the previous night. The night I gained Joe's Shardblade by virtue of being his heir, I used it the way the village directed, to "lynch" despite DC preventing a real lynch that day. The next night, I gave it away after having been exposed as having a Shardblade by the deathcry of said lynch target (who turned out to be a Noble) who wanted to get back at me for killing him. I handed it off because we know the Ghostbloods have a Soulcaster and I didn't want them redirecting my T1A action to make me kill someone. During the night, I proved that DC was outright lying about some actions he took, and the lies deliberately caused me to use my Painrial one night to protect him while he was already protected by Shardplate, an extremely suspicious move because that Painrial could have been used to protect a random player hoping to catch the Ghostblood kill. He also did that duel to prevent a lynch despite claiming to think his duel target was a Noble and despite knowing both he and his duel target had Shardplate and couldn't die from the duel. Lynches are how the village wins, so preventing a lynch from happening (even a mislynch, unless you're really sure) is an eliminator move in my eyes. I was very, very surprised to learn he was just trolling the Nobles while being a Noble, for no discernible reason. That's all I have to back up my claim.
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I don't have a spanreed. I don't control what PMs the people who do have spanreeds set up for me and which they do not. I do appreciate the ones that were created for me, but not everyone wants everyone else to know who has all the spanreeds given how so many were stolen. ... at the same time, so many being stolen means that the thieves are unlikely to care about stealing more since they won't get them any close to their win condition if they've already taken one. --------------- EDIT: Maill, what happens if a Ghostblood Spy performs the Ghostblood kill with one action, spies with another, and then someone uses a Soulcaster on them to redirect their "role" action? I took this post by you: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/54042-lg20-warcamp-enigmas/page-23#entry436906 to mean that Ghostblood kills are always redirected by a "role action" redirect, so in the above case, both role actions get redirected. Am I misinterpreting your clarification?
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And you've just highlighted why I'm not fond of the use of PMs in Mafia games for anything other than Eliminators and Masons. It naturally devolves the game into one group of people who all consider each other to be "cleared" as loyal deciding how the rest of the game is going to go, winning almost always if they are all truly loyal, and losing almost always if one of them is actually a traitor who managed to convince them anyway. That's no fun for the people who are neither in the group nor eliminators. But, isn't forming one group like that the whole point of the mechanic? If every game so far with PMs hasn't devolved into this tactic (or at least attempted to but was prevented/invalidated due to mechanical interactions such as conversions), I'll be pretty surprised... So yes, between various people's spying, emotion bracelets, soulcasters, and pain knives, I can confirm that Zas, Sheep, Stink, and Alvron (assuming you're a Noble) absolutely did not perform the Ghostblood kill last night. I completely trust Mark, Twei, and myself. I also am assuming trust of Burnt for reasons elaborated on below. That just leaves the three of you. Back when the accidental reveal of Burnt's alignment happened, I had just done a careful analysis of everyone in the game (as best I could), and went, aha! I finally found someone I'm absolutely certain is a Noble! ... and then I saw that the GM had just rerolled her alignment. So, I said, whatever, I'm going to pretend that didn't happen, and if I'm wrong, I don't really care. For me, having fun relies on me being able to trust logical deductions and uncover lies (when on the village side - when an eliminator, the fun is in getting myself logically proved to be on the village side by enough of the actual villagers and not getting caught in any lies doing it). So, for the rest of this game to be interesting to me, Burnt would have to have remained a Noble. That means, if she's not a Noble, I'm not really interested in how the rest of the game plays out. So, I'll assume Burnt is a Noble. You are certainly welcome to disagree! But that's why I'm not even considering that Burnt might be a Ghostblood - I'm working from the premise that she definitely isn't.
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Ah, I missed that. I just remembered she went looking for it and didn't know any other way to get back when she first arrived in Shadesmar. Thanks for the clarification!
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It took her a while to get back because she had to get to Honor's "Perpendicularity" in order to cross back, and as she insinuates in the epilogue of WoR, she was sidetracked by visiting the cities of the spren and talking to some spren councils about the Desolation (or was it just the council of the "Highspren" (the Skybreaker bondspren)? I don't have my copy of WoR handy).
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But this brings up a very important question that must be addressed before we can continue: Who would win in a fight, Jimmy, or Lightsong's lifeless squirrel?
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Oh I know that. Think about it though. Who could have done the kill? I know for absolute certain that it was not Stink, Twei, Mark, Zas, Sheep, or me who did the kill. So... Not worth considering right now (in my opinion): Kas could have if he was faking his inactivity (which I highly doubt) (EDIT: which is impossible) Kyne could have if he was faking his inactivity (more plausible than Kas, but I still doubt it). Burnt could have if she was rerolled as Ghostblood (but I am ignoring this possibility because, to me, if Maill had to re-roll the only player I could truly confirm as a Noble, the game ended in a draw when that occurred and the rest of it is irrelevant to me). Alvron could have only if Elbereth is lying, but that can be ignored because if we're looking for a single Ghostblood, it's pointless to consider people who could only be Ghostblood if a specific other person is also Ghostblood since, if we make that assumption, we've already found another Ghostblood who is more likely. And so then that leaves: Elbereth could have if she's been lying. Macen could have if he's been lying to me. Wilson could have if she's been playing us all game (but if so, we're totally screwed and it's already game over). Am I forgetting anyone? EDIT: Well, Elbereth is hardly the most suspicious person on my list, but there are only three people who could have done last night's kill. Unfortunately, out of those three, I trust Elbereth the least. Sorry, Elbereth (EDIT 2: Grammar and name bolding)
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My Shardblade was Joe's. I didn't start with it. Since DC already told the Ghostbloods which Nobles currently have blades in his death cry, there really isn't any reason to obfuscate it anymore. I do not currently hold that blade. The Ghostblood who was Lopen's heir would have inherited the Soulcaster and I didn't want them to redirect my attack to another Noble. So, I gave it away. That way they couldn't use me to hurt people of their choice. Especially since they note have two Soulcasters... There appear to be only two blades in the game, unless there is another Noble with a blade who hasn't used it all game. By the way, I really don't like how Nobles are using the death cries to get retribution against other Nobles who mis-lynched them or mis-vigged them. Can we please stop doing that? My suspicions are currently aimed at Sheep and Alvron. I trust Mark and Twei completely and Wilson and Burnt a fair amount. I'm rather certain that Stink is not a Ghostblood. I'm starting to trust Macen too. Most other people, I distrust to some extent. I have heard info that strongly suggests that the following people did not perform the Ghostblood faction kill last night: Zas, Alvron, Stink, Sheep. Only the Alvron info there came from a source I don't fully trust. So, assuming it wasn't any of those four... If Kyne and Kas really are inactive, who performed the Ghostblood kill?
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Turns, yes. Cycles, no.
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Day 2 was four cycles ago. He's been inactive for three cycles. Cycle = Day+Night, right?
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Could I sign up to run a game? MR or LG, whichever has fewer GMs already in the queue. From the looks of it, that'd be MR. This is one idea, but by the time my turns comes up, I might have a better one. -
Aha! There's where that info is. I'd missed it when I went looking. Thank you!
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I've updated my game format suggestion posted here. Would this be a good mid-range game? I'd love to run it if people are interested in playing. If people feel I should play more games here first, I can wait, but no MR14 was appearing, QF15's theme was unappealing to me, and LG21 doesn't seem to be getting enough players to run D: EDIT: Umm, I can no longer edit my post. If I try, I get the error "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community." even if I make zero changes to it. There are no images in my post at all and I have no signature. I'm confused.
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No. We killed you because you outright lied to us this turn after that absurd duel yesterday. You were super suspicious, and now you're helping the Ghostbloods by telling them where we hid the Shardblade because we know they have a Soulcaster from Lopen. Thanks for that :|
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..... Seriously? What the storms was DC doing? He deliberately lied to a Shardblade wielder, claiming to have protected me with a Painrial while he had Shardplate. I checked with him several times and he maintained the lie. What the storms was the point of lying that blatantly to someone you claimed to think was town and trustworthy if you weren't an eliminator??? Edit: to be clear, you can't hold both a Painrial and a suit of Shardplate at the sense time. If you have one and get the other, you have to drop one.
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Oh, okay. Thanks!
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Did anyone give DC Shardplate? Just trying to understand what's going on... Something doesn't make sense here.
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I believe we only know what three of them can do - two cause the Death Rattles and Thrill as mentioned above and the third (the Midnight Mother) creates the Midnight Essences that can merge with stone and have a monster break off from the rock and attack nearby humans. If I recall correctly, some of them are sentient, and some are not. It isn't clear if the Death Rattles and the Thrill are deliberate creations of those two Unmade or just involuntary byproducts of its proximity.
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Thanks for the thorough responses! It's good to get those out of the way before the game starts. I wasn't on this site months ago <.< When there are this many special abilities flying around, there are almost always problematic interactions that the designer hasn't noticed. Fresh sets of eyes are helpful!
