Lightspine

Made this a couple days ago but realized i probably couldn't put it in cremposting. Thank you so much for creating a meme page where RoW spoilers are fine!

One of the reasons I was proposing the Connection theory is that the Fused don't operate through bonds, as they haven't bonded the spiritweb of the singer whose body they are inhabited but rather completely replaced that spiritweb with their own. However, I really like your coppercloud idea. It has some merit, although we would still have to explain why the Fused could use Transportation. That said, wearing an aluminum helmet would definitely not protect against a coppercloud's effects. If anything, wearing aluminum mimics a coppercloud. Aviars work in pretty much the same way.

I didn't deeply research my theory last night about how the fabrial might be using Connection since I was about to sleep, but I've now found some pretty compelling evidence surrounding it today. I did a bit of digging and found this WoB: I think this pretty solidly backs the idea that the fabrial could somehow work by suppressing Connection. It's solidified by what Syl says to Dalinar in her interlude: Here, Syl is asking Dalinar to strengthen her bond with Kaladin, and pretty strongly implies that he might be able to do this because he can manipulate Connection. This explains why the ability he used to speak Azish strongly resembles the Connection Feruchemy we see in Mistborn Era 2. However, this quote from Syl's interlude mentions Connection and might make things a bit tricky: If the fabrial had reduced Syl's Connection to Kaladin, which is providing her Connection to the Physical Realm, shouldn't that have lead to her mind weakening? Syl doesn't seem to experience this, so I could be off the mark. This is where the theorizing gets a bit rocky. I'm completely convinced that the Nahel bond comes from Connection, but it's hard to say what the effects of lessening that Connection should be—Sanderson basically RAFO's that part of the question—and if it could line up with what we see the fabrial doing. My gut instinct is to say that Connection strengthens as one progresses through the oaths, and therefore the consequences of reducing Connection should look a lot like reverting back a few oaths. This would line up with being unable to summon Syl as a shardblade, something Kaladin couldn't do until his last oath. However, Kaladin has been able to use surgebinding even before he swore his first oath. In addition, we see Godeki (? spelling unknown) unable to take in stormlight while the fabrial is active, another thing that Radiants are able to do before their oaths. However, we don't know which oath Godeki is on—if he's just first or second oath, maybe his Connection was weaker to begin with and the weakening effect of the fabrial was more profound. There's a lot of room for speculation.

I haven't seen anyone point this out yet, but the fact that Shallan is a Lightweaver certainly makes this decision mysterious. Cryptics and honorspren do NOT like each other, so it seems like a very odd choice. Maybe it has something to do with @KandraAllomancer's point? What if Shallan has to disguise Pattern as an Inkspren for the mission?

Fair point, I guess we don't know anything for sure. That said, I think that as assumptions go, it wasn't a bad one. We know for sure that Abrasion and Gravitation weren't accessible, but there's reason to believe that it extends further than that. First of all, Syl can't manifest as a shardblade. And secondly, the other Edgedancer (Godeki? Anyone know the spelling?) seems to have been unable to draw in stormlight. Um, I wasn't trying to imply that his bond was broken, just that he shouldn't have been able to use Adhesion during this time.

That's always been my thought about this up until the chapter 7 reading, when it happens while the fabrial is suppressing surgebinding.

I think you've got a cool theory, but I believe you may have gotten this part a bit backwards. It's been my belief ever since we learned about spren "betraying" the singers in favor of humans that the Nahel bond brings a spren more fully into the physical realm than a bond with a singer. Singers are closer to the cognitive realm than humans and thus have less to provide, so to speak, to the spren through their bond. (I thought there was a WoB on this, but can't find it. Perhaps I'm wrong!) This is why (might be paraphrasing, just reciting this from memory) "though broth are we, their meat is men." (referring to spren, spoken from point of view of a Listener) To me, this is basically confirmed in Oathbringer when Syl describes leaving the Cognitive Realm. When Syl decided to to seek a bond with Kaladin, she had to enter the physical realm completely and lost a great deal of her memories and intelligence. @Pagerunner already cited the relevant quotes in his earlier reply. From what we can tell, she is still in the Physical realm even when she is not being summoned as a Shardblade. Some other evidence for this is that windspren are some of the few spren that can interact with objects physically, just as Syl does (bringing Kaladin a leaf), and we know that they in particular exist far more in the Physical than the Cognitive. Edit: Originally I didn't have much of an alternative theory of my own, but I thought of something now. I like your theory because I do believe that the fabrial must somehow be targetting the Nahel bond. The Nahel bond, however, isn't Cognitive but Spiritual; Syl and Kaladin's spiritwebs are connected, and Syl's spiritweb will be damaged if Kaladin breaks the bond by breaking his oaths. This is different from the Fused. As @Isilel pointed out, the Fused aren't necessarily operating with a "bond." It's clear that the singer who originally inhabited the body of the Fused is dead. Thus, I believe that the spiritweb has been replaced entirely with that of the Fused, rather than "bonded" to the cognitive shadow. The fabrial could work, therefore, if it weakens spiritual connections. So, maybe Connection? It sounds right in my head, but there's some problems with this. We don't understand Connection entirely, and when we see it used in the Mistborn series it's towards the land/culture and not towards other spiritwebs. Could this fabrial make you forget how to speak your native language? Hopefully one of you has a better grasp of how Connection works, and if it's even the same thing as the spiritual Nahel bond. I would really love to learn more/be corrected if I'm wrong.

My take on this is that he might have been involved with Ulim. It's strongly suspected that Ulim is the voice in the Rhythms telling Klade to buy Szeth, because of Venli's presence. I don't think it's a coincidence that this happened in Kholinar, and that we know Gavilar could transport something between Roshar and Braize. This could explain how Ulim escaped Braize. Also, as far as we know, Ulim only began working with Venli after this event. What this would mean is that Ulim backstabbed Gavilar by providing the Listeners with the tool they used to assassinate him.

I think we've also seen the Progression Fused as well: they're the big, bulky ones which grow their carapace. Kaladin fights several of them during his battle with Amaram. I just checked, and they aren't listed on Coppermind, but I'm pretty confident in my identification.

You're right, and this is one of the reasons I was hesitant about this theory. However, I don't believe it nullifies the theory because I'm not sure how strict the definition of "splinter" is. Every Shard's investure permeates the Cosmere, whether or not the Shardholders controlling them actively handles that investure. This, for example, is why Nightblood is said to contain some of Ruin's investure, despite seeming as if he should be a splinter of pure Endowment. His nature is to destroy, so some of the character (perhaps the best term here is Intent?) of his investure is that of Ruin. (At least, that's my interpretation of that.) The same could apply to the Heralds. If the Unmade were created out of their malice during torture, Odium does not need to necessarily give the investure in order for them to manifest as investure with the Intent of Odium. So, the real question is, would this be considered a splinter of Odium? Is any being of Odium's investure a splinter, or do they need to "break off" from him as the imagery of the term "splinter" seems to imply?

Thank you!

My theory doesn't involve Hessi knowing that the Unmade were involved in the Herald's torture. She was able to scrounge up the names of Unmade such as Re-Shephir and Ba-Ado-Mishram despite the fact that they have been trapped or missing for millennia, so I don't think it's a terrible stretch to say that she could have found the name of an Unmade who has been missing since Aharietiam. However, Hessi doesn't know that Chemoarish is missing, and instead tried to piece together her lore from stories that had been mismatched with the Nightwatcher and maybe Chanarach. Wow, I had completely forgotten about Dilaf's wife and had to pick up Elantris again. I'm not sure what this means for my theory, as its hard to rule out Dilaf's experiences with Dakhor as a contributing factor to hearing his voice. I thought the special closeness of Realms on Roshar might have some affect, and the state of Sel's Realms aren't exactly normal either. Looking back at my interpretation of Jezrien's suffering, perhaps breaking away from the influence of one of the Unmade is simply one way of many to regret having done terrible things. They drive people to do acts that they would be unlikely to do otherwise, so maybe all they're doing is making it easier to fulfill the circumstances needed to hear the voices. I'm not sure how that would relate to Nale's comment on Szeth's torment being tied to his power. Dilaf also gains a very different motivation from his voice. Instead of being directed at him, his wife's fervor for revenge is pointed at Elantris. Although I agree that they are likely to also be echoes from the Spiritual Realm, the mechanism behind their occurrence may be completely different.

Wow, I wish I had known about that. I seem to remember Dalinar noticing the corpses of a Dysian Aimian in his vision of Aharietiam, so that would corroborate this idea. Thanks for sharing this info! If I may ask, how do you find WoBs outside of Arcanum?

Good question, I understand your concerns! Maybe I relied a bit too much on that WoB. I do think that Ishar is the most "special" of the Heralds. As is mentioned in Oathbringer, he was the one who came up with the Oathpact and called the "Binder of Gods". Conversely, you could say that Taln is more special because he never broke and because he was the only "commoner" (if that's the right term. He wasn't royalty). Nale and Shalash both believe that Ishar hasn't gone mad, although WoB suggests otherwise. I thought the other Heralds may have thought he was more sane because he didn't have the focused attention of one of the Unmade. Another reason I thought Ishar was unique was because I of the theory I tied in about the Unmade being formed from the Heralds. To be clear, I don't believe that they had to have broken under the torture for fragments of their soul to be twisted. Ishar's power is all about binding things together, including souls, so if any of the Heralds were able to keep pieces of their soul from being torn away and remade into the Unmade, it would be Ishar. Combined with that WoB about the Bondsmiths not having a corresponding Unmade, this pointed me towards him. Lastly, I thought that Taln being bound to an Unmade tied together really well with the fact that Chemoarish is a complete unknown. I found it an elegant solution to the lack of information we have on Chemoarish. If Taln were exempt from having an Unmade, then there would be nine Unmade on Roshar during the Era of Solitude and there must be some other reason that we don't see Chemoarish.

I can see that interpretation. However, I think you misinterpreted my post. I mention that I believe Ishar to be the only Herald not associated with an Unmade, due to a WoB i cited and also because Nale says he's the only Herald who is "whole." My theory wasn't that Taln didn't have an Unmade, but that his Unmade was bound with him on Braize until he broke, and there were thus only 8 Unmade active on Roshar following Aharietiam. Apologies if I didn't make that very clear in the post! I will add a TL;DR to help.

One of my very first posts on the 17th shard was about the fact that Kalak notices violet blood on the battlefield of Aharietiam during the prelude to the Way of Kings. The only creature we've met with violet blood is the Chasmfiend, so I speculated that they were somehow involved in Desolations. I haven't thought about the post in years, but your theory reminded me of it. Perhaps Laceryn also have violet blood.

This theory is more like two theories that are loosely connected. My first theory is born from the ravings of Jezrien, when he is in the form of the Ahu on the beggar's porch in Kholinar: These three quotes from Jezrien seemingly establish several things: Jeizren hears voices in his head, much like Dalinar's and Szeth's. These voices have been confirmed by WoB to be tied somehow to the realmatics of the Cosmere, and I don't think it would be terribly contentious to say that they're specifically tied to the regional conditions found on Roshar. Seeing Dalinar's suffering, Jezrien leaps to the assumption that it is the consequence of one of the Unmade. He is correct on this, as Dalinar's actions at the Rift were being influenced by Nergaoul. In his third quote, Jezrien shows surprising wisdom given his current state. He is acknowledging responsibility for his actions, in a way which parallels Dalinar's moment of triumph at the battle of Thaylen Field, where Dalinar rejects Odium and accepts responsibility for being driven to kill by Nergaoul. In addition, Jezrien disturbingly seems to describe being tortured by the Unmade. Looking at theses statements, it becomes easy to wonder whether the Unmade have had a hand in Jezrien's current condition. After all, he seems to be correctly conflating Dalinar's experiences with his own. Additionally, Jezrien's emphasized use of "we" in the third quote can be interpreted to refer to himself and Dalinar, but perhaps it could refer to all of the Heralds. However, something's definitely not fitting the picture here. Although Dalinar was under Nergaoul's influence during the actions which led him to hear these voices, Szeth wasn't. The commonality between Dalinar's and Szeth's conditions doesn't seem to be the Unmade, but rather the regret they hold over the slaughter they have committed. To explain this, I bring you this quote from Chapter 90 of Oathbringer: Notice, first of all, that Szeth's case is actually weaker than Dalinar's. Szeth doesn't hear his voices as constantly as Dalinar does, but rather when he closes his eyes or when he thinks about them—they're in the back of his mind, and they don't dominate his thoughts unless he clears his other senses. Secondly, notice that Nale claims Szeth's condition is related to the powers he held. The powers of a Herald. My conclusion may be controversial, and I see room for doubt despite with the evidence I have presented above, but I believe that part of the Herald's madness comes from torture by the Unmade. I still believe that regret plays a large role in the madness experienced by Dalinar, Jezrien, and Szeth. After all, Odium's speech to Dalinar seems to claim that he would escape his regrets and the voices in his mind if he gave in to his control and that of Nergaoul. The Thrill seems to prevent people from feeling remorse. I believe that these voices don't come from the Unmade, but rather from the profound pain of denying their influence and recognizing the horrors they have forced you to do. It is some form of backlash after Connecting with the investure of one of the Unmade. Szeth experienced this same phenomenon because he drew upon powers tied to Jezrien. It's clear that Jezrien regrets something. His voices must represent some group of people, and he explicitly states that it was his fault that he "attracted", "befriended", and "courted" one of the Unmade. But as far as we know, Jezrien isn't some sort of mass murderer, right? At least, I doubt he regrets killing the Voidbringers who threatened humanity. Instead, I turn to Kaladin for this one. As a Windrunner, Kaladin must share some characteristics with Jezrien. The whole ideology of his order is modeled after Jezrien. Now imagine how Kaladin would feel if his "weakness" lead to the return of a Desolation and the deaths of thousands. Thus, I think Jezrien, much like Kaladin, has regrets over the people he failed to save. The screams he hears in his head are the people (perhaps both human and parsh) who died in battle because Jezrien gave in to torture. More specifically, this torture associated with one of the Unmade, who Jezrien could have blamed in the same manner that Dalinar could have blamed Nergaoul for his murders. A have a variant to this theory, which I'm not sure I fully believe, but which think deserves some thought: the Unmade were un-made from the Heralds. They are twisted, warped, and corrupted aspects of the Herald's souls that have been separated throughout their many millennia of torture. This explains why Jezrien says that they "ripped my brain out and made it dance! I watched." This might also explain why Ishar is said to be "whole": there is no Unmade created from him. (Thus 9 Unmade and 10 Heralds) Regardless of whether they were created from the Heralds, I believe that each of the Unmade were bound to a certain Herald, and that they inhabited Braize between the Desolations. This would give them the ability to be directly involved in the torture of the Heralds. I'm also not sure if it makes sense in the first place for the Unmade to have hung around between Desolations, since they would be the lone forces of Odium and would leave themselves vulnerable to the Knights Radiant. That said, there's an excellent counterpoint for this in the Midnight Essence from Dalinar's vision. One of the Knights in the vision says: Dang, now I'm dying to know what she was about to say about Harkaylain. Since that info is missing, the implications are rather ambiguous. It would be a reasonable argument to say that this implies that Re-shephir is being contained on Roshar at the time, but also that Harkaylain is taking the appearance of the Essence as a sign that one of the Heralds has broken and that the Unmade has been allowed to return. Anyway, that little debate aside, my theory is that Ishar is the Herald not associated with one of the Unmade, because of this WoB that Bondsmiths do not have a corollary among the Unmade. This means that, until Taln's breaking in Way of Kings, only eight of the Unmade were on Roshar, and leads to my second theory: that one of the Unmade, specifically Chemoarish, has been missing from Roshar. This probably seems like the wildest claim I've made yet, but it comes from analysis of Hessi's Mythica. While Hessi certainly seems to hit the nail on the head quite often, she admits that she isn't completely confident in her findings. Notably, she was only able to confidently name eight of the nine Unmade. However, she does accurately propose Dai-gonarthis as the ninth Unmade. But as a twist from Sanderson, this doesn't make very much sense. He cannot expect us to doubt that Dai-gonarthis was one of the Unmade, since he has been referenced many other times as the Black Fisher. Sanderson could, instead, be telling us that Dai-gonarthis is more sneaky and less well-known, but this is odd because Hessi was able to tie it to the scouring of Aimia. Instead, I think that this is a misdirection. Hessi worries that "There are many legends and names that I could have misinterpreted, conflating two Unmade into one." Conversely, I believe that she has made the opposite mistake in an attempt to reach the value of 9. Why? Let's take a look at all the information we have on the Unmade outside of Mythica and see how Hessi stacks up: Ashertmarn: the Heart of the Revel, whom we see in action. Hessi's ideas are supported. Ba-Ado-Mishram: mentioned in the epigraph of chapter 80 by one of the Radiants who left behind a gemstone. Supports Hessi's claim that she empowered the Parsh during the False Desolation, and implies that Melishi somehow severed this connection and captured her. Chemoarish: Nothing. This name is never mentioned by any character outside Mythica, although somebody in Bavland swears by the Dustmother (which Hessi claims is a nickname for Chemoarish). This, however, is not a concrete indication that the "Dustmother" is an Unmade. Dai-Gonarthis: mentioned a Death Rattle, which also calls it the Black Fisher. Jezrien also refers to the Black Fisher. Despite Hessi's doubts, it is unequivocally an Unmade. Moelach: first described by Taravangian as the source of the Death Rattles. Jezrien says he can feel Moelach scraping at time. Hessi was spot-on with this one. Nergaoul: also first described by Taravangian. Literally seen in the open and captured by Dalinar at the end of Oathbringer. Completely follows Hessi's description. Re-Shephir: her Midnight Essence is seen in Dalinar's vision, and then she is mentioned in a death rattle as the Midnight Mother. Shallan encounters her in Urithiru. Hessi correctly named her but didn't seem to know much about her characteristics. Sja-Anat: we see her active in Kholinar during Oathbringer, corrupting various spren. Fits Hessi's description. Yelig-nar: Nohadon describes Yelig-nar killing his servants. We see him in Oathbringer inhabiting Aesudan and then Amaram. Hessi was also pretty spot-on about him. After seeing this, doesn't Chemoarish kind of jump out at you? We have seen hard, textual evidence for all eight of the other Unmade, but Chemoarish has never even been mentioned. In addition, we have evidence of all other Unmade besides Yelig-nar being present on Roshar before the onset of the new Desolation: Ashertmarn probably was in Kholinar even before the True Desolation began, Ba-Ad-Mishram is imprisoned, Dai-Gonarthis did something to Aimia, Moelach and Nergaoul have been drifting around, Re-Shephir was in Urithiru, and Hessi seems to have documentation of Sja-Anat's influence on villages. Finally, this is what Hessi herself has to say about Chemoarish: I do not believe that this is a coincidence. Chemoarish may be the real name of one of the Unmade, but the myths ascribed to Chemoarish over the past 4500 years are actually myths about the Nightwatcher. The mish-mashing of Chemoarish lore from before Aherietiam and the lore of the Nightwatcher is what makes her so hard for Hessi to characterize. This makes sense considering the opinion that those in Vorin culture have of the Nightwatcher and the Old Magic being evil and pagan. Instead, I think that one of the Unmade, quite probably Chemoarish, has been trapped on Braize up until the moment that Taln broke under his torture. This explains their absence from the past 4500 years of mythology and lore, during which they should have been roaming free to influence the world. If this theory is true, I'm excited to see what their true nature might be. TL;DR: Jezrien's ravings seem to indicate he was tortured by one of the Unmade, so I think that the Unmade were actually trapped on Braize between desolations. Ishar doesn't have an Unmade counterpart, leading to 9 Unmade. Taln, however, does have a counterpart who has been stuck on Braize for 4500 years. This is why Hessi is only able to pin down 8 Unmade in Mythica, and why we have conspicuously little information about Chemoarish. Edit 2: It just occurred to me that Chemoarish may not have only been mixed together with the Nightwatcher, but with Chanarach, patron herald of the Dustbringers. They're names are kind of similar, and this could be why Chemoarish is called the Dustmother. If this is true, then the figure that Hessi calls Chemoarish is actually born from confusing the mythologies of the Nightwatcher, Chanarach, and the actual Unmade Chemoarish.

Not sure if crazy but this is such a minor theory with no evidence that it doesn't warrant it's own post, so it's going in here. It's more of a thought than a theory, actually. I just had the idea that if Odium wants an incredibly deadly champion, he should look to the Shin. It's pretty clear to us in Oathbringer, and has been speculated even before then, that certain members of the Shin train with the Honorblades. Most people tend to think that the Stone Shamans do so, and that Szeth was one of them, but that's not really important for this theory. All we need to confirm is that Szeth didn't train with just the two surges that his honorblade granted; he also practiced skating to emulate the surge of abrasion. Imagine granting a bond with Yelig-nar to somebody with Szeth's training. Odium said that he wanted a champion who dominates the battlefield like the sun dominates the sky, and I think this is one way to get there. (Extra points for religious parallelism there since Szeth calls the Sun the god of gods.) I'm not really trying to speculate on how the story would get to this point, just pointing out that it could be a strategic move for Odium to seek out then Shin when trying to make his champion. Also I agree that this wouldn't be as thematically satisfying as having a character who we know, such as Moash, become his champion.

My own personal interpretation of that song was that the Singers destroyed the Plains, but not with the help of their gods (Odium). For support, I turn to Kabsal's demonstration of the formation of the Dawncities from sand. They didn't shows us that for nothing, and then imply that the Dawnsingers (the pre-Odium parsh people) built these cities. If you listen to Shallan's interpretation of how the Shattered Plains was formed, it's not a stretch to believe that they are the consequence of the power wielded to form the Dawncities multiplied by a thousand. I believe that the Singers wielded some ancient form of Honor or Cultivation's Power from back when they were the Dawnsingers, which allowed them to sing together and summon an earthquake, much like how stormform allowed them to summon the Everstorm. How this is associated with their escape from Odium's influence isn't clear. (original post from 2016 here:) That was, however, my theory before Oathbringer, when we thought that Sesemalex Dar (which is built in trenches in the ground) was a Dawncity for some reason. I think people agree now that the Dawncities are actually the 10 cities where Oathgates are located, aka the seats of the Silver Kingdoms, which aren't all built into the ground. This could completely mess up my theory because above-ground cities don't really fit the Kabsal sand-in-a-plate thing. Edit: Forgot to mention problems with the timeline of Honor's death. Honor survived Ahareitiam and died some unknown time after, perhaps around the time of the Recreance. Stormseat, meanwhile, is said to have been shattered during Ahareitiam, although the accuracy of this statement is disputed. I just looked it up on Coppermind, the page for Stormseat says this: Link: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Stormseat I realize this punches a hole into my theory as well, although I still find it likely that the shattering of Stormseat was caused by Dawnsigner power, those who did it are not the same as the Listeners who later inhabited the Shattered Plains. Either way, however, this unequivocally places the shattering of the Plains and the death of Honor at two wildly different points in time.

This theory where I dissect Mraize's letter to Shallan in Oathbringer: TL;DR: Pattern says the letter contains a lie, I'm interpreting it as a cue. I don't trust Mraize's claim that Helaran was sent by the Skybreakers to kill Amaram as a strike against the Sons of Honor: although it would be consistent with their motivations, it does not match the history that we have observed between these two groups. My personal theory is that Helaran's strike was a tactic to draw out Kaladin.

Sure! Thanks for considering it worthy haha ^_^.

You're right, this could explain why they're not constantly sending assassins after Amaram. However, (Rhythm of War Prologue spoilers)

Wow, we did come to pretty different conclusions about the last few lines of the letter, although I believe we agree on most of what comes before. You make a good point that we don't really know whether or not Amaram was doing anything at the time, and he could have been making himself more threatening to the Skybreakers. My analysis definitely assumed, perhaps too hastily, that the Sons of Honor weren't terribly productive following Gavilar's death. I believed this primarily because we haven't seen them actually influence the turn of events. Venli, being guided by Ulim, was the driving actor behind the new Desolation after Gavilar's assassination. The goal of the Sons is accomplished, but they weren't the ones who orchestrated it. But for all we know, they had some other scheme cooking which didn't fully execute before Venli's success. You also bring up the possibility that Helaran was acting on his own because his "opportunity was slipping." That could maybe explain why there were no further attempts on Amaram's life. However, I do very firmly believe that—although there are many plausible alternatives to the theory I gave on my original post—the interaction between the Skybreakers and the Sons of Honor is much more complicated than Mraize would have Shallan believe. Despite their opposite ideologies, something more is going on and they're clearly not especially intent killing each other off given the number of missed opportunities they've had to do so, and the lack of accusations that Gavilar and Amaram have against them. Edit: Forgot to say this, but I'd be interested to read the thread in which you made that original line-by-line analysis! Could you link the thread or tell me its name? And thanks for the nice points and analysis as well; I like seeing how other people interpret the same text!

Hmmm. I agree that it is possible, but far from definite, that Gavilar heard about Szeth's abilities while he was preparing to fight. However, descriptions of Szeth were so abuzz with rumor and misunderstanding that I doubt it would have been possible to completely rule out the possibility that he was a Skybreaker.

Ah, nice point! I can't believe I left Lin Davar's Ghostblood connections out of my analysis. With all the animosity between Helaran and Lin, this does hint toward a possible conflict between the Skybreakers and the Ghostbloods. However, I don't have a clue when Lin started associating with them. I think it probably started after Shallan's mother tried to kill her, but I don't think we have evidence to say for sure. We also don't know he if was already affiliated with the Ghostbloods at the time that Helaran showed up with a Shardblade and then left (please correct me if you actually have evidence regarding this, I don't remember the fine details very well). As for the unmade, perhaps that helps patch up the explanation that the Ghostbloods give for how Shallan's mother acts, but I'm not sure how they would influence the situation as a whole. I just went back and reread the Way of Kings prologue, and i still didn't find any instance where Szeth uses Adhesion against Gavilar. To be clear, I know that Szeth uses Adhesion during his assault on the palace guard, I just didn't find any instance where Gavilar would have witnessed him using it. I'm making that distinction because my point is that Gavilar should have been unable to determine whether Szeth was using Windrunner or Skybreaker surges. Please correct me and cite the specific instance if I'm wrong! Thanks! I hope it was insightful! I tend to be pretty bad at spotting small stuff during my initial reads (I'm terrible at spotting worldhoppers) so I'm trying to improve at this sort of thing. Wow, I haven't seen that WoB before. Besides the Ghostbloods, Skybreakers, and Sons of Honor, the only other secret societies I can think of are the Pattern (Taravangian's peeps) and maybe the Dysian Aimians (aka sleepless immortals)? I'm not sure if the Dysian Aimians count, but they do seem to have a pretty sneaky surveillance network. Also, going off of what Shallan hears when she eavesdrops on Mraize, perhaps the mad herald Ishar (going by Tezim, warlord of Tukar) has a society of his own. At least, he's somebody the Ghostbloods keep an eye on. Maybe we should also include the 17th shard, since we see them searching for Hoid at the Purelake. Still, that's a lot of secret societies that we seem to know absolutely nothing about. Yikes. That's a good point, we definitely have textual evidence that the Ghostbloods don't like Amaram. Plus, unlike the Skybreakers, it might actually have been a challenge for the Ghostbloods to kill Amaram after he obtained Shards, so it would explain the lack of follow-up attempts. However, I well say that if Helaran's goal is indeed to kill Amaram, he's almost hilarious (Helar-iously? Hmm, I'll leave the puns to Shallan) bad at his job. I'm taking another look at chapter 47 of WoK, and he's not being that efficient about it. He rides past Amaram and kills his horse first, then lets himself be distracted by Kaladin's squad moments before he's about to finish Amaram off. He spends way too long engaging Kaladin, and lets Amaram crawl away a good distance. As a full shardbearer, he should have just ignored Kaladin and crushed Amaram on the spot. Also: a mini-theory I forgot to include (and will add to my original post): Mraize's phrasing about Tien's death is interesting. The exact quote is "From our spying upon the Skybreakers, we have records showing the only member of Amaram's army to have bonded a spren was long since eliminated." Eliminated. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid, but should we just believe the Skybreakers knew of Tien, yet did nothing? Tien's completely innocent of any crimes, so it protects him from their direct assassination but I wouldn't put it against the Skybreakers to pull a few strings and make sure a messenger boy winds up on the front lines of combat. If this mini-theory is true, then it has pretty big implications about how Kaladin might react towards the Skybreakers if he ever find this out.