Jofwu

I'm not a big graphic novel person, generally speaking, but I really like the idea of the cosmere having canonized materials beyond novels. I've got the prose, but I've only read a few pieces here and there out of curiosity. (largely for clarifications when making Coppermind edits) I'll definitely be getting Vol. 2. I've got my fingers crossed that we'll see some improvement... I had a lot of criticism for volume 1. But it wasn't enough to overcome my hunger for more cosmere. I'll be getting it even if it's no good... But I CAN say that I certainly won't recommend these graphic novels to others unless we see notable improvements. Also worth mentioning that my criticism is not with the nature of this material (i.e. being a graphic novel), but with the quality and how well it was executed. I DO believe they can be done well in this form. They just weren't on the first volume.

This seems most likely to me. Don't know enough about astrophysics to address your question.

Did this list get cut off?

Good question. I actually edited that list recently. It used to have Lord Mastrell at the top of the list. But I removed it because my interpretation is that the Lord Mastrell is a mastrell. He wears the same color sash after all. When Drile is supposedly going to be promoted, Dirin went to get a mastrell sash for him. I can't recall any other ranks though...

This is true, though I personally feel like we should assume it's mostly sand without proof to the contrary. Khriss describes the lichen as being on the surface of the sand particles, if I'm not mistaken. Feels awkward to me to assume that the sand particle is more like a piece of dust covered in a thick layer of lichen.

But the way it's described Slatrification involves turning the sand into water. To me it sounds like they can take a pile of sand and literally turn it into water. If they were pulling water out of the lichen and leaving sand behind, I'd expect it to be described more as "pulling water from the sand" or something like that. Something that suggests the sand didn't disappear.

No clue what the mechanics are supposed to be, but I'd like to point out that there is plenty of precedence in the Cosmere for substances being dramatically changed in very unnatural ways. I assume that's what's going on. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to sand mastery (or to Slatrification) than even they realize.

100% Kelsier's swagger.

@1stBondsmith Ah, of course! It's about the curve of the planet itself. Not a matter of how you move relative to the sun, but of how the Sun moves relative to the ground and your sense of "up". If you're at a pole the sun is on the horizon and if you're in the middle of Dayside then it's directly above. Every degree of latitude or longitude is one degree of sun movement. Let's say you can make out a 3 arc minute shift of something in the sky (1/10th of the diameter o the Sun or Moon). That's 1/20th of a degree. Moving 1/20th of a degree along Earth's surface is 3.5 miles. I don't think Taldain is significantly smaller than Earth. (Does AU say?) But even if it's not, it seems totally reasonable to me that someone might be able to detect that kind of movement . Surely this is the answer. Thanks for helping me make the connection! @Blightsong, sorry if that's what you were trying to get across and I was just thinking too hard to see the difference.

Ah, I see what you're saying. Scale isn't part of the equation. All that matters for the calculation is how far you are from the center of the object (the sun) and how far you move perpendicularly to it (along the surface of the planet). I don't mean to say that Brandon knowingly left the 'error' for the heck of it. I think it's more likely that he (and Peter and whoever else) were less observant to this kind of detail than they normally are, for one reason or another. Given the number of other small mistakes, that doesn't strike me as particularly surprising.

Ah well, I'll try and find it myself. As for the scale, I'm not sure you understand. If Taldain had the same orbital height as Earth then it would pretty much be inside its star. I believe that this image is on the large end for supergiant stars, but even if Taldain's is ten times smaller they'd be screwed. It's one thing to shift the habitable zone... This would be something else.

What page? I feel like this is the sort of scientific thing Brandon pays attention to getting right. But I guess maybe that wasn't the case back when he wrote the prose, and I can see how it would get looked over when adapting for the graphic novel.

No, @Oversleep is right. Earth's diameter is 12,756km and the distance to the Sun is 149,600,000km. This means if you travel from one side of the Earth to the other (in an instant) the Sun will have moved 0.005 degrees (18 arc seconds) in the sky. That's roughly the diameter of Saturn, as it appears to us in the night sky. In other words, the sun would have moved the width of a bright point of light in the sky. Almost nothing. And that's if you travel clear across the planet. Let's say you ride a tonk all day, traveling an impressive 200km. I'm getting 0.3 arc seconds, which is smaller than Ceres. Something you can't see without magnification. You might argue that the Taldain system isn't comparable to our situation on Earth, but I think it's actually "worse". AU essay spoilers: Taldain's sun definitely doesn't move depending on your perspective. My best guess is that Taldain isn't 100% tidally locked to the sun. In other words, it's got some slight wobble as it orbits. This would mean that the sun shifts back and forth (or maybe in a circle) every so slightly. I don't know enough astronomy to say if this is realistic or how perceptible it would be on the surface. The main problem with this theory is that it seems to be shot down by assertions that the sun is "motionless" in the sky. My next best guess is that Kenton is making crap up so impress them or to sound indispensable or something. Or maybe he really does believe he can tell the difference, but it's really just his subconscious making use of other natural methods of navigation.

Kenton seems to suggest that he uses the position of the sun in the sky to tell directions (chapter 3). But the sun is also supposed to be "fixed" in place in the sky. Anyone know how to make sense of that?

I'm not going into any great detail here... Just wanted to throw out the idea. One of the most popular theories for Shardplate is that it's a product of the "cousin" spren of each Order. (see windspren seeming to surround/defend Kaladin when he fights Szeth) The biggest holes with this theory are (1) why did they "die" or "freeze" in a similar way that the nahel spren did and (2) why do they need to be charged with gems/Stormlight? Shardplate seems to be more like a fabrial than anything else--a manmade device that uses trapped spren and runs on Stormlight. But they certainly seem to be MORE than a mere fabrial. Especially from the way they seemed more "alive" in Dalinar's flashbacks. So what if we mashup these two ideas together? What if Shardplate is a fabrial where the spren are more like a partner than a prisoner? Perhaps rather than capturing spren to make fabrials, the Radiants just sort of naturally attracted these spren into a symbiotic relationship of sorts. Not terribly different from the way spren interact with creatures on Roshar, when you think about it. And the result, when you have spren who are "willingly" working with you, is something more powerful and alive.

I see what you mean, definitely didn't think that through. That makes sense. In any case, I'm definitely not touching that.

@Chaos, before anything else I wanted to mention that I don't plan on changing anything here. Well, nothing drastic anyways. I just wanted to share my own thoughts and see if anyone else wanted to share theirs. I like the chatroom a lot, but it's not good for referring back to. So anyways, no worries in this regard. @thegatorgirl00, the conversation started around a question about Listeners. We were divided on whether Listeners should be categorized as Magical entities or not. On one hand they've got a close relationship with magic. On the other hand so do Surgebinders and other people that weren't categorized that way, and them being non-human doesn't seem a good reason for them to be different. This brings up a whole conversation about how that subcategory should be used, whether we need more options, etc. This is not to say there aren't other (perhaps more pressing) category issues. Perhaps there's a better word I could have used above... In the context of my first post, "living/non-living" always refers to biology. Magical lifeforms are alive in a scientific sense. They are primarily physical beings which fit a basic definition for biological life. Magical entities are not alive in a scientific sense, but they are still alive in that they can perhaps move around, have independent thought (either low level or highly sentient), etc. Spren, for example, are not alive in a biological sense, but they're definitely "entities" and not just items. The sort of non-living things you describe (like fabrials) can either be categories of Magic directly, or you could introduce more categories like Magical items/objects/tools and so on. I think those are pretty detailed, descriptive definitions and I've tried to explain them thoroughly for the sake of clarity. But a personally feel that they are very intuitive as to not need lots of debate except on specific gray area issues. Sorry for the confusion--I was referring to subcategories specifically, but I must have been staring at it for too long because the only offender is the Forgery category. It's a subcategory of both Magic and Magic systems. Since it's apparently the only one like this I just did a quick fix. Right, and my suggestion for Magic users didn't really change much, if anything. When I say above that articles fit under this or that category, I didn't mean to suggest that they should necessarily be directly under that category (rather than in some further subcategory). I agree with Chaos's take on this @skaa. It doesn't make sense to me to put location-based subcategories under the Lifeforms categories. This way you DO get the functionality of sorting lifeforms by where they're from. Axehounds would be categorized as Lifeforms, Roshar, and Stormlight Archive. You seem to be proposing something that would give Lifeforms, Rosharan Lifeforms, and Stormlight Archive. Seems better to just put them under the Roshar category, with everything else Rosharan. It would be one thing if the planet had some kind of further meaning/implication beyond location, but in general I don't think it does. This is what I'm trying to solve with these suggestions, I suppose. What I'm proposing draws a clear line between those two HLCCs, essentially be clarifying that Lifeforms is something more biological. You noted that the line between biology and magic is blurry, and while I don't deny there are some tricky cases I think that it's generally very clear. The Lifeforms category almost exclusively contains plants and animals at the moment. The only thing it contains that I disagree with is the specific spren type articles (e.g. Cryptic, Honorspren, etc.), which I think should be in Magic just like the overarching Spren article. There are a few Magic articles that I think should be moved to Lifeforms: Kandra, Koloss, Steel Inquisitor, Returned. Note that I believe this allows us to get rid of the rarely used {{sapient}} infobox. The point is that these are basically entirely distinct lifeforms and not merely "something that a lifeform is" (which is the case with other Magic articles like Drab, Metalborn, etc.) Steel Inquisitor and Returned are the more gray cases... But I think there's a clear case to be made that they are fundamentally different than other humans at a very deep level. The subcategories I propose above would then fill in the gap of what the current Magical entities is supposed to do. Got something categorized in Lifeform which is very involved with magic? It's a Magical lifeform. Got some Magic thing which shows signs of thought and autonomy? It's a Magical entity. That's how I see things anyways. Take it or leave it. Or take some of it and leave the rest.

Not sure where we landed last week after the Discord conversation on categories, other than that Chaos wants to sit down and think through everything eventually. But I wanted to put a few thoughts/opinions of mine out there. They might be based on misunderstanding of the category system, so if that's the case just tell me why I'm wrong or ignore me. But anyways... I think there were 3 high level content categories involved in the discussion we had: Characters, Lifeforms, and Magic. The main controversial subcategory we discussed was Magical entities, though it went beyond that. Anyways, I would propose the following three subcategories: Magic users: a character who actively uses magic. This is a subcategory of Character. I say "actively uses" to rule out cases with innate Investiture and Nalthian Breath. Innate Investiture is too mundane to make you a "magic user", and I think those with Breath shouldn't be counted unless they're performing Awakening or using Heightening perks (i.e. collecting Breaths). This does generally include individual Aimians and Listeners, I think, as they're making active use of their magical nature. But their species would not be a subcategory in the same way that Allomancers is a subcategory of Magic users. Magical lifeforms: a living (biological) non-character or species which uses magic or exists because of magic This is a subcategory of Lifeforms. I mean "living" in a biological/scientific sense. It includes any non-character plants or animals which use magic (Ryshadium, chasmfiends, aviar) as well as whole species whose biology involves magic (Koloss, Kandra, Returned, both Aimian types...) Magical entities: a non-living (i.e. non-biological) entity or type of entity (character or otherwise) which uses magic or exists because of magic This is a subcategory of Magic. I mean "non-living" in a biological/scientific sense. It can include characters (Syl) as well as non-characters (like a skeltal). This is where you'll find Splinters and other truely magical phenomena. Note that the Lifeless would also fit in this category- while they are made of humans, they are very much non-living. A few other random thoughts: We could probably use a Cognitive shadows category. Probably best to make it a subcategory of Cosmere, because they could arguably belong to any of the three categories above. Probably could also use a Hemalurgic constructs category? Also in Cosmere? Or my Magical lifeforms category. I noticed a lot of "magic systems" are included in both Magic and Magic systems, which seems redundant. Aren't Greatshells and Ryshadium oddly specific categories to be placed directly under Lifeforms? I haven't made it out of the cosmere yet, but I THINK these ideas would work with other universes.

Sorry to be a downer, but I actually felt like this was a weakness of the graphic novel. There were a number of occasions where I felt that characters were doing or saying things that didn't make sense based on what I knew about them. Though I will say that it definitely gets better with every read. I'm not used to graphic novels, so it could be due to my inexperience with the media. No knowing how to "read" it well. Looking back, it felt like I had to read once or twice to understand the story and characters before I felt really comfortable with it.

Heck yes. It's not as... fun and energetic as Sanderson. But they tell an incredible story in a fascinating world. Well worth reading. You absolutely can't judge the series based on book 1. The first three books are pretty much just set up. Read through book 4 before you start letting opinions set. The books are a lot more developed than you seem to think. For example, the magic system is VERY extensive and interesting, the characters are all very unique and different, and the Whitecloaks have a very logical (if misguided) basis for their hate. Jordan was a master of limited point of view writing. At this point you've pretty much only seen through the eyes of one or two farmboys from the middle of nowhere who know nothing about the world. There's a lot that they're missing, and therefore you as the reader don't see it either. I've never known a series better for rereading, in fact, because a second read lets you see it all again through entirely new lenses.

Love what both of you did. Thanks!

This is a great idea! I wonder if it would be better in the top right corner rather than at the bottom? I'll see about adding some info about aericke/section titles to the guidelines page. That should definitely be mentioned there. I wouldn't want to include capitalization though. It would take a lot of space and I think is more specific than that page warrants. I'm also guessing the Style guide should remain. I think it's more an official document than a help guide.

This seems doubtful to me considering Taldain has magic.

I added a section on numbers to the glyphs page. I'm not happy with how the images are layed out, but I can't figure a more elegant solution. I'm also struggling to get the colorful 1173 to resize... Not sure what's going on there.

For some reason I was thinking that it is not exhaustive, which is why it seemed superfluous. Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe it just needs updating. :-) I'll look into that.