Jofwu

It makes me wonder if the Recreance is connected. Maybe the KR realized where their existence would eventually lead, so they decided they had to abandon their oaths so that things never went that far... Huh... Wow! Has this idea ever been considered? I bet this is why the recreance happened, and why Nale (and others) thinks the Radiants are dangerous. With Desolations happening from time to time, the Knighs Radiant never advanced far enough to reach this greater power. they kept getting decimated they kept getting decimated, and had to rebuild every time. Then suddenly the Desolations end. Just like Nale says, they naturally began to progress to some point where things apparently became dangerous. They realize this, and decide that breaking their oaths is the only solution. And the Skybreakers, the rule followers, stick around to make sure it all never happens again, under Nale's leadership. It makes so much sense! Can anyone link me to this theory about Ishar? I missed that.

Eh, I get that. Yes, he has used Greater Roshar [System] in the past to refer to the entire star system rather than just the planet. What I'm saying is that AU establishes "Rosharan System" as the official term for the star system. In the future, Brandon would say "Hoid is interested in Roshar" versus "Hoid is interested in the Rosharan System". And even if Brandon does continue to use Greater Roshar, I still think it's less official unless the term appears in an actual book. Just my opinion. In any case, I think the "Drominad" article should be renamed "Drominad System". And when we give the others a page it should be "Selish System", "Threnodite System", etc. (as shown in the star charts).

Okay, I'll do that. I figured it would be best to put them in the top right corner, but as there is not really a fitting infobox template to do that with. Geography is the closest one, and that feels wrong. Any guidance on that? My argument about naming Roshar is that it appears in AU as "Rosharan System". I know Brandon has referred to it as Greater Roshar in the past, but I'm assuming in-universe usage supersedes Brandon's terminology in the past.

I realized we've got a link to a nonexistent Taldain System page. The beautiful star charts were posted on Brandon's website today, so I figured it might be cool to write about it and get an article in there. Is there any plan to get Infoboxes for star systems? Or is there some other preferable way to put that image in the article? (I assume it would be okay to use the artwork posted on the website?) And as an aside, I would argue that we should probably work on a consistent naming scheme for star system pages. I think they ought to use Khriss's names (i.e. Rosharan System, Drominad System, etc.) since that's apparently the in-universe terminology.

Ah, you're totally right. I didn't think about measuring time in terms of how many orbits the moon makes. But I like my explanation better since it doesn't require a magically moving moon. Right, so I was referring to the orbit itself precessing. If the moon has a stable, "natural" orbit then you would see it spiral around the sky over the course of a year. Year begins with the moon moving clockwise around the horizon and half a year later it's moving counterclockwise around the horizon. At the quarter points it would on a path crossing the sun, straight above. Something like that.

But he didn't say there are 9 unmade. He just strongly suggested that nine is "Odium's number". @Weltall I really like the "one less than 10" thing actually. Makes me think of the 6 vs. 7 symbolism in Christianity.

I must have misread something (and misremembered) because I was thinking the stars were of equal size. Should have looked at the map again! It got posted (in beautiful color) on Brandon's website today. I assume the circle that the stars fall along is artistic. Unless the small one is super dense (and the "particulate cloud" isn't super massive as well) then I think it's pretty safe to say that the small star is orbiting the larger. And that means Taldain is definitely at the L1 point of the two, so that it can stay in between them. I'm not an astronomer, but I don't see any reason why this would prevent Taldain from being tidally locked. In fact, I imagine it helps to make that happen. Also, there's this brand new WoB thanks to @Necarion: Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this definitely means Taldain is in an unstable orbit. L1 isn't stable. Of course, keeping the planet at a Lagrange point is much more reasonable than Roshar's crazy moon situation. As for Taldain's moon (Nizh Da?)... Yeah... There's just NO way it could precess around in it's polar orbit such that it straddles two halves of the planet. Just doesn't work that way. However... Are we sure it does this? I haven't read White Sand Prose. The moon is on the horizon in WS vol. 1, which fits this star map. But perhaps this changes over the course of the year. How else would Daysiders measure a year if NOT by using the moon? They can't see the stars and the sun just sits in the same spot. They have no means to measure the length of the year (besides heading towards Darkside) if NOT for this possibility. Unless their "year" has some other meaning. This seems unlikely, but fingers crossed? Is there a WoB to the contrary?

I've never liked the idea that it's a "Voidbinding chart." Everything about it screams Shadesmar. You've got the Shadesmar map, you've got gems and spheres, you've got a Vorin woman. I just don't see anything the slightest bit Voidish except maybe the lightning? And that's a pretty weak connection. It's got to have something to do with the Surgebinding as it relates to the Cognitive Realm. My personal theory is that it has something to do with soulcasting.

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/cosmere/wiki/overview

@Joe ST I've got some questions about marking things as "stub", "partially complete", and "nearing completion". Is {{complete}} to be used when is updated with all that we know "right now" or should that tag be saved until we are relatively certain there will be no future changes or content? Say I've updated the Baon article with everything we know. Can I mark it complete, or should I leave it as partially complete until White Sand volume 3 is out? And that's my second question. I assume I'm free to use these tags as I see fit? No reason I can't change the tags that are currently in place? Some of them seem outdated to me.

I can't find anywhere that he has been directly asked something like "Does 'Taln' have an honorblade in the TWoK epilogue?" because it's pretty much just assumed to be the case. I don't see that Brandon has ever corrected questions that assume this and his answers would be uncharacteristically misleading if that's wrong. These for example. Concerning dropping Honorblades and Shardblades there's this WoB. When Szeth drops his blade and it disappears this is presumably because he willed it to disappear. And of course this further supports the idea that "Taln" has an Honorblade, because the man seems to unwittingly drop the blade and it stays. As you pointed out, I'm not sure if we're certain that "Taln's" Honorblade is, in fact, the Honorblade of Talenel'Elin. Could be some other Honorblade. But to suggest otherwise is basically theorizing at this point. The ONLY reason we have to believe Taln isn't legitimate is Brandon's teasing refusal to call him Talenel.

I don't think there's a need to post in these forums about your edits unless it's something you're not sure about. Especially if the change is minor/trivial.

"Taln" definitely had an honorblade. Brandon seems to have called it that on many occasions. And the thing about dropping it is a pretty good sign. You can intentionally drop an Honorblade and make it disappear and you can intentionally drop a regular Shardblade and make it stay. But the "default" seems to be opposite of those. That's a good point that we don't know if the blade is Talenel's. Considering that's obviously what we're "supposed" to assume, I'm not sure how that ought to be handled.

Yes, I agree, but the distinctions aren't strong enough at this point for separate articles. For example, there's no notable group of sand masters besides the Diem. So a page for "sand master" would have nothing to say besides "people who do sand mastery". Same thing for "the Sand Profession" as the term completely overlaps with Diem in practical usage in the text.

As I'm getting my feet wet with editing Coppermind I find myself learning new things frequently. As far as I'm aware, there's not really a "How To" guide for people interested in getting involved. I'm aware of the Help:Contents page, but it's more like a collection of helpful info than a guide for new folks. Particularly for those who are new to editing wikis in general. Would it be helpful if I tried to organize my thoughts on this into a kind of "onboarding" document? Something that's easy for new people to find and get caught up to speed? It would cover things like... setting up an account and user page how to navigate Coppermind and make edits important stylistic information basic article formats templates categories citations and references etiquite Again, a lot of these things are covered under the Help:Contents page, but I feel like these are written in a way that assume you're very familiar with how wikis work. Any thoughts on this? Maybe it would be better to just make comments on the existing Help pages?

Stump's description of her spren made me assume Truthwatcher at first. I can see how Wyndle would look like Ym's spren without Lift-vision. Stump's description was too lacking, and the "mirror" feels Truthwatcher-y to me. But this thread has made me rethink it. Stump's description is too vague to put much weight in it, and it's easy to see how it might be a cultivationspren after all. On top of this, both Ym and Stump seem like textbook Edgedancers to me when you consider their activity. Doesn't get much more "remember those who have been forgotten" and "listen to those who have been ignored" than taking care of orphans. Even if Stump is as grouchy and selfish as she seems... It's still something. And yes, Wyndle was sent to Lift rather than Ym (or someone else). But that was three years ago, and he presumably hasn't been in contact with his fellow cultivationspren. I'd be surprised if they hadn't sent out more of their kind in that time.

This was my assumption.

Right, we're on the same page. I was just arguing that it's insignificant in the case with Sazed. And density matters as that's the weight that the buoyant force has to counteract. Though that's perhaps a roundabout way to put it. :-) Some more math... If you want to stand on water with just the bottom half of your feet submerged... That's perhaps 0.001 m^3 which is 1 kg of water displaced. You'd need to decrease your weight by 98.5%. Not as much as you need to float in the air, but still a tall order.

I updated Diem. Can I only use the Group template OR the Geography template? Not both somehow? That seems to be the only problem I see with this solution. I went with group for now. Sorry if this is turning into something more appropriate for the Coppermind board.

Good catch on 'sand master' vs. 'sand masters'. I suppose both of those should redirect to 'sand mastery'. @Windrunner I've copied all the info I need from 'sand masters', so feel free to make the redirect.

I don't think that has much to do with buoyancy. Terminal velocity is the speed where drag force equals weight. Drag has nothing to do with buoyancy and isn't affected by storing weight/mass. Sazed fell slowly simply because lower weight and same body equals lower terminal velocity. Buoyancy is something very different. It COULD come into play if Sazed decreased his density by a significant amount. Considering there are no cases of Skimmers becoming weather balloons, I don't think they can lower their density so much that buoyancy comes into play significantly when in the air. Water is another matter, because it's significantly denser. To answer OP, I think your answer is in the fact that there's a limit on how much weight they can store. I don't know if we have an idea on what that limit is, but I doubt it's enough to allow floating or walking on water.

It does, notably when the Taishin meets to discuss the future of the Diem. Kenton is announced as a "representative of the Sand Profession", Drile spoke "on behalf of the Sand Profession", etc. The Lady Judge in particular refers to "the profession" of sand masters at the meeting and when alone with Kenton- almost using it interchangeably with Diem. I couldn't quite tell if there was supposed to be a subtle distinction between the two that was worth noting. This is what I figured would be the case. So I'll plan to just make a note explaining that the Diem is one of the 8 professions of Lossand. In this case I think that "sand master" should redirect to "Sand mastery"- right now these are two separate articles. Assuming there's not really any notable group of sand masters outside of the Diem, I don't see that the "Sand master" article would have any substance to it. Should basically work the same way that "surgebinder" redirects to "Surgebinding", "misting" or "allomancer" to "Allomancy", etc.

I'm working on the White Sand pages on Coppermind and I'm feeling some confusion on how to handle these terms. Here's my take on them: sand masters - I take this term to mean anyone who can utilize sand mastery (like Surgebinders, Mistings, Awakeners, etc.). It's not an "official" term; it's just a catch-all for people who can use this kind of magic, whether they have an official association or not. Diem - This refers to both the building AND the sand masters who reside there. Those who are part of it tend to refer to themselves as part of the Diem. This is an "official" organization made up of sand masters. sand profession - This seems to be synonymous with Diem, but seems to be used in a more political or economic context. It mainly seems to come up in contexts where the other professions are involved as well, and it seems to be used more often by outsiders in place of Diem. (Side note: I'm also curious if anyone knows whether "sand profession" ought to be capitalized?) I'm curious if you guys have any input on my interpretations of these. I'm particularly interested if those who have read the prose version can weigh in. I know discussion of the prose version isn't appropriate here, but that's not quite what I'm asking for. I just want clarification on how these terms are intended to be read (something that doesn't come across very clearly in the graphic novel). The problem I find is that we have articles for both "Sand master" and "Diem". The first contains information about Diem heirarchy and such, which doesn't feel right to me as the term doesn't imply association with the Diem and it's rules, ranks, customs, etc. The latter focuses on the building only, which doesn't feel right as it is frequently used in the graphic novel to refer to the official organization of sand masters. And between each of these, I'm not sure how "sand profession" fits in- should it be included as an alternate term for Diem, get it's own article, or be stuck in some other article?

Yeah, this situation is definitely unrealistic. Hate to say it, but you're not going to find a real-world explanation for what's going on. First a point of clarification: the L1 point isn't the barycenter. The Earth-Sun L1 point is relatively close to Earth while the barycenter is inside the Sun. That said, if both Taldain stars are of equal mass and orbiting in a circle then the two points do coincide. A planet at the barycenter of any two stars is definitely not stable. The L1 point isn't really stable either under natural circumstances. The moon is even more difficult to explain. With Taldain itself you can argue that magic is keeping it balanced, or perhaps in a halo orbit. But the moon would have to be in some kind of weird... spiraly orbit. Roshar's moons have some unrealistic precession going on as well, but in that case you only have one star. With Taldain's moon it's not just something close where magic bridges the gap. You need a completely fantastical explanation.

@Windrunner , I think that stance is a little unreasonable. It assumes that magical abilities are "by default" connected to location or genetics, if you assert that you need proof otherwise. There is precedence for alternative cases, and I don't see any reason to assume Surgebinding works that way. So I don't see any reason to disbelieve by default.