Jofwu
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Everything posted by Jofwu
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Eh... It's got two clear Rs and I think you could argue the C shape thing was/is an Sh, perhaps with a missing "tail". But the Rs alone are enough for me. Did you see all the examples on the Glyphs page I made though? That glyph surrounds the compass rose AND border on every official map of the full continent. Plus it shows up behind the "Roshar" title. Has me pretty convinced on the Roshar translation. :-) At least until there's a better option out there.
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Is this.... The thing that was supposed to happen in March 10th? Maybe he or /r/fantasy had their date wrong. Make note of his warning though...
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The Principles of Soulcasting Immunity and Stick
Jofwu replied to DrakeMarshall's topic in Cosmere Discussion
But he's talking about some kind of investiture that sets it above "non-living" things... Like a rock. If I'm reading correctly. Do we have reason to believe a stick has more investiture in it than a rock? -
The Principles of Soulcasting Immunity and Stick
Jofwu replied to DrakeMarshall's topic in Cosmere Discussion
Stick is not a living thing. It's just a stick. If living plants DO have some kind of "spark of life" type investiture, I imagine it goes away when the thing dies. A stick shouldn't have any more investiture than the pinky bones of a skeleton. -
My interpretation of Brandon's answer is that their oaths are still going to basically be the same thing. His point is just that it's the sentiment that matters, not the words themselves. So they might phrase their oaths differently from one person to the next. For example, in Edgedancer...
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Thanks. I'm not sure what the best place for the collection is. The wiki is more of an encyclopedia of information. Doesn't feel right to me to put all of this on the Glyphs page, for example. Would be good to put some of these there, sure. But not every little scrap that we have. I could make a gallery, but that doesn't let you group them together like this, I think. If an admin sees this and has a better idea, I'm all ears.
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Alright, I took your mock-ups @Harakeke and this is what I came up with: Sorry for the senseless order. I started with the assumption that Rishir and Thalath are correct. The Roshar glyph is uncanny, so if these are Silver Kingdoms then Rishir is too phonetically similar not to connect them. And the one for Thalath doesn't fit perfectly, but I don't know why else it would be on the Kharbranth drawing. I suppose it could just be there for the meaning of the essences or something Vorin-y. But I'm gonna stick with it without better logic I can see. Especially since none of the other glyph concepts jump out at me for that symbol. From there I just tried to match the remaining eight, taking into consideration that the "original" glyph may be organized differently than these guesses, and trying to see how it might have evolved (smoothing out, extra lines/hooks, etc.) into something more artsy. I think the first ones I paired and felt good about where Alethela, Valhav, Sela Tales, and Shin Kak Nish. From there, I figured Makabakam was the one with all the K-looking things and Iri kind of made sense if you ignored the determined attempt to add radial lines and x-axis symmetry. Which left Natanatan and Aimia. Side note... Has anyone considered the connection between Silver Kingdoms and the KR order glyphs? Edit: Also probably good to remember that the names of the Silver Kingdoms as we know them may be Vorin-ified, right? Edit 2: Didn't realize I missed some posts while whipping this up. @Pagerunner, it's hard to say with the symmetry. I think it's highly possible that the symbols would be based on a root of these kingdom names, but that could be wrong. And if they are, guessing the root isn't as easy as chopping off half the word. Looking at how the Herald names were turned symmetrical... sometimes they just took the name and flipped it over. But some of them were already symmetrical, some of them have letters chopped off, and some of them have letters added.
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Odium/Autonomy Connection, and the Red Mist
Jofwu replied to The One Who Connects's topic in Cosmere Discussion
I really like this, though it begs another question. Why would Honor pin Odium down (via the Oathpact?) like this? Wouldn't he rather fend Odium off? If someone comes to murder you, why would you lock him in your house? Best explanation I can think of is that he expected to win, and was afraid Odium would try to run. -
Odium/Autonomy Connection, and the Red Mist
Jofwu replied to The One Who Connects's topic in Cosmere Discussion
Huh, never put that together. It makes a lot of sense in some ways, but it also seems very odd to me. If Odium is trapped then why was Honor hanging out in striking distance? You don't catch a bear in a pit and then hop down into the pit yourself. You might argue that he had a role to play in keeping Odium trapped. But in that case, with Honor having been dead for some time now, I would expect Odium to already be free. Something doesn't fit right in all that... -
Based on what?
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What are your guys favorite moments from Stormlight archive
Jofwu replied to randalthor's topic in Stormlight Archive
Kaladin going back for Dalinar and jumping into the fight was awesome, but I mostly expected it. Dalinar trading his Shardblade for the bridgemen? That punched me in the gut really hard. Heart stopping. Just wow. This one too: My heart was breaking for Shallan all throughout WoR, and this was the beautiful culmination of it. Chills every time. -
Odium/Autonomy Connection, and the Red Mist
Jofwu replied to The One Who Connects's topic in Cosmere Discussion
To emphasize what Spool was saying, I think the question was more accurately something like: Q: "Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?" Brandon: "Uhh......" (about to RAFO) Q: "In ANY way?" Brandon: "Sure." My interpretation is that Honor died while trapping Odium. Like maybe he locked the two of them in a "room" that Cultivation has the key to, hoping to be victorious but not sure he would be. -
The Principles of Soulcasting Immunity and Stick
Jofwu replied to DrakeMarshall's topic in Cosmere Discussion
Do do you have a source for that? Wondered about that for a long time. Do we know how the gem matters? Meaning, does it matter where the stormlight comes from that you use to do the soulcasting? Or do you, in addition to stormlight of your own, need an infused gem at hand (of the correct type)? While looking for the WoB I stumbled into this one: How does that fit into things? Why did she need to summon Pattern? Because their bond needed to be reinforced in this particular instance, because it had been a while? Or does this have implications for every time that she wants to soulcast? -
For the Avatar fans... This image makes me itch for an Ember Island Players depiction of Stormlight. -
I think Brandon described it saying it's as if his cognitive self is lagging behind his physical self. Having died and been brought back to life, the reconnection left a little wiggle room between the two.
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Reread the WoR vision at Purelake as well. My interpretation is that Midnight Essence and Thunderclasts are essentially the same thing... Just different voidspren involved, or something like that.
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See this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6487-thaylen-and-alethi-glyph-translation/ There's some examples if you dig. I think there's a word processor font you can download about halfway through. Probably best to just look at the art in the book though. -
Update: Added numbers (toward the top) per @thegatorgirl00's request (am I missing any appearances?) Added KR order symbols from the Rosharan System star chart Removed the 4/vev from the bridge/gesheh glyph
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The world needs more one-armed Herdazian jokes.
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Double thanks! Wow that was a mess to fix, but all better now.
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I collected all the glyphs I could find here, for reference: @Pagerunner that all sounds about right except for the bit about the "bridge" glyph. The glyphs for "bridge" and "four" are well known. Anybody who knows how to read glyphs would instantly understand what the "bridge four" tattoo and patch say. I've got both versions we know side by side in the link above. At first glance, to those of us who don't know how to read glyphs, they look different. But a literate Alethi would understand they both say bridge. Kind of like how you know the typed letter "A" and a highly caligraphic version both say the same thing. Early on in the translating it seems that these guys were trying to find "letters" buried in both symbols. And if you look really hard you can sort of find them. Maybe long long ago the glyph for "bridge" consisted of some letters mashed together. But that's not what an Alethi would look for or see in either of those images. They would simply understand the basic look of the glyph for bridge. Doesn't mean figuring out some of these possible "letters" is a waste of time. You can see them clearly sometimes, and that clues you in to what the glyph might say. (until we have a glyph dictionary to work with) Edit: Well, doesn't help much with the Silver Kingdoms theory, but I realized that the void-Shalash symbol looks astonishingly similar to Kaladin's shash glyph. I really don't think it's a coincidence. Not really sure what to do with that. Too much contrary evidence to assume these represent the Heralds. And there's not a great kingdom name that fits. Maybe it's a city... Or else maybe the connection between all these isn't so simple as we'd like.
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EDIT: I've moved MOST of this post to this page on Coppermind. There are maybe a few images here that aren't included in that page, but it's mostly redundant things and that page is organized much better. I'm not going to continue updating this page. I'd like to collect all of the glyphs we've seen so far in Stormlight. (not counting Thaylen) Above the images I'll provide any names/translations/meanings and source that are known. If you see anything that I'm missing please share. Preferably with an image and relevant information! Standard Phoneme Set Basic Glyphs Gesheh = Bridge Image from Bridge Four tattoos artwork in WoR. Translation from Isaac (?), somewhere in the Thaylen and Alethi Glyph Translation thread. This is combined with Vev (four) to create "bridge four". Nahn = unknown, associated with darkeyed caste system? Image from Bridge Four tattoos artwork in WoR. Sas = unknown Image from Bridge Four tattoos artwork in WoR. Shash = dangerous Image from Bridge Four tattoos artwork in WoR, translation in text Unknown = freedom Image from Bridge Four tattoos artwork in WoR. Numbers Number glyphs have been deciphered and are covered on the first page in the Thaylen and Alethi Glyph Translation thread. Included below are the samples we have of these numbers. From the Southern Frostlands map, the numbers 0 through 28 are shown (rotated 90 degrees) at the top and bottom of the page. They are: 0: 1 - 10: 11-20: 21-28: From the Rosharan System starchart, the numbers 1 through 10 are shown, numbering the gas giants in the system. They are: 1 - 10: From the Bridge Four Tattoo artwork, the following numbers are depicted: 3: 4: 7: 9: This glyph seems to be highly stylized so as to appear symmetrical with Kholin. 73: 1173: Glyphpairs Kholin (Khokh Linil) From Dalinar's chapter symbol and Alethi Warcamps artwork. Dalinar stylizes Khokh as a tower (shown) while Elhokar styles it as a sword. Both stylize Linil as a crown. Kezeras (Kecheh Zeras) = Highstorm Kalazeras (Kalak Zeras) = Everstorm Highprince Glyphs These are taken from the Alethi Warcamps artwork, the Battle at the Tower artwork, and the Battle at Narak artwork. Higher quality versions were provided in the Thaylen and Alethi Glyph Translation thread. A highly stylized version of Kohlin is provided in the Bridge Four Tattoo artwork. If the identity of the last four have been figured out, please let me know! Aladar Kholin Roion Sadeas Sebarial Vamah Hatham Bethab Thanadal (depicts Yankler, but name was changed after glyph was created) Ruthar Oathbringer Alethi Glyph Page Zeras = Storm Kecheh = High Kalak = Eternal Zatalef = a bat-like cephalopod native to Akak Javani Tebel Tsameth = Life Before Death Katef Tebel Kadulek = Strength Before Weakness Mehlak Tebel Mevizh = Journey Before Destination Iron Stance Scroll Unknown 1 = Stance This glyph is the first of two forming the title of the scroll: "Iron Stance". It is also depicted with the first "step" (the initial stance). Unknown 2 = Iron This glyph is the second of two forming the title of the scroll: "Iron Stance". Unknown 3 = Lure This glyph is depicted with the second "step" (a parry). Unknown 4 = Trap This glyph is depicted with the third "step" (a second parry). Unknown 5 = Finish This glyph is depicted with the fourth "step" (a hit on the opponent) along with the first three. Unknown 6 = symbol of the Calligrapher's Guild, technically depicts "Isaac" Glyph Workshop at JordanCon 10 (2018) Abara = Family Tafar = Physician Khakh = Determination Thath = Justice unknown = Diamond unknown = braid Honorblades From the text, at the beginning of new "Parts". Jezrien Nale Chanarach Shalash Battar Kalak Knights Radiant Orders These are taken from the Knights Radiant chart from the endpages. They are also inscribed on Elhokar's shardblade and depicted in Shallan's sketches. They are used in the star chart of the Rosharan System to denote gas giants beyond Roshar. Additional depictions were provided in the Thaylen and Alethi Glyph Translation thread. Windrunners Skybreakers Dustbringers Edgedancers Truthwatchers Lightweavers Elsecallers Willshapers Stonewards Bondsmiths Surges These are taken from the Knights Radiant chart from the endpages. Adhesion Gravitation Division Abrasion Progression Illumination Transformation Transportation Cohesion Tension Voidbinding "Orders" These are taken from the so-called "voidbinding" chart. The third symbol also appears on the Kharbranth artwork. Note that these resemble the Knights Radiant order symbols to an extent. "Void-Windrunners" "Void-Skybreakers" "Void-Dustbringers" Third instance here depicted on Kharbranth artwork. "Void-Edgedancers" "Void-Truthwatchers" Note resemblance to Roshar glyph. "Void-Lightweavers" "Void-Elsecallers" "Void-Willshapers" "Void-Stonewards" "Void-Bondsmiths" Voidbinding "Surges" These are taken from the so-called "voidbinding" chart. The third symbol also appears on the Kharbranth artwork. Note that these are generally a rotationally symmetrical version of the surge symbols. "Void-Adhesion" "Void-Gravitation" "Void-Division" "Void-Abrasion" "Void-Progression" "Void-Illumination" "Void-Transformation" "Void-Transportation" "Void-Cohesion" "Void-Tension" Other Roshar? (uncertain) Decription in the Thaylen and Alethi Glyph Translation thread. Symbol can be found around the compass rose and borders of many maps. Urithiru? (uncertain) Decription in the Thaylen and Alethi Glyph Translation thread. Symbol can be found on the compass rose of the Roshar map and Frostlands map. It also appears (often as little more than a watermark) on many other maps and pieces of artwork. For a list of locations see this thread. Navani's Ketek From the endnote of WoR. Full Bridge Four Tattoo From the Bridge Four Tattoo art. Kaladin banner glyph From Kaladin's chapter symbol.
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@Pagerunner I finally got around to reading this full thread, and here's my understanding... Harakake, Argent, and others stared at glyphs a whole lot and came up with the glyphs document in the first post of this thread. I believe the black ones are more certain while the grey have proven more difficult. Each symbol seems to represent a consonant. The vowels don't seem to be indicated in any way- at least not necessarily. And you tend to see lots of "screw you" lines (and hooks, dots, etc.) as well which have no meaning. The idea is that a glyph is made up of the consonants in the word (the in-world/Alethi word - not the English). For example, if you look at something like the "Kholin" glyph (not the khokh linl glyphpair) you should theoretically be able to find the symbols for K, L, and N. These symbols generally seem to start at the top center of the glyph and work their way outward (being symmetrical). So if you skim through this thread (especially early on) you'll see a lot of people trying to find and correlate the symbols which make up the glyphs. These are what Harakake has shared on the first post. Some of them appear to be similar to the Thaylen script symbols, so that served as a good starting point. Sometimes they're very clear. For example, you can very easily make out the S's in "sas" and "Sadeas", as well as the D tucked between them in "Sadeas". But if you look for these in practice, it's usually very difficult. The guesses at where they can be found are often quite a stretch. Enter a very important comment by Isaac here: So it turns out the overall shape and design is a lot more important than the individual components. Perhaps far in the past, these glyphs were constructed from clear symbols representing consonants or syllables. But they've evolved into something more complex. A lot like Chinese or Korean, from what I understand. The best example I can think of is the comparison between Knights Radiant order symbols and the honorblade glyphs. They're in a totally different configuration, but you can quite intuitively see which of those blades belongs to which order/Herald, right? Of course, this makes translation/identification very difficult. There are traces of the consonant-symbols... sometimes. But other times they seem to have been warped, added to, or left out completely. So you can't put too much weight on the components. Concerning glyphpairs... My understanding of these is that all glyphs have a meaning of their own, but sometimes you combine them with another to get a new meaning. And the highprinces do this for their own names. Not certain why, considering they have a single-glyph version as well.... But they do.
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@Landis963 I'm skeptical about the Rishir interpretation, because that one looks identical to Roshar. Even if the vowels aren't indicated in any way, I feel like the glyphs for Rishir and Roshar would be distinct from one another. Further evidence for Roshar: Didn't realize before, but on the map of modern Roshar, the same glyph can be found (1) around the outside border of the map (mostly obscured, but clear at the corners) and (2) around the circles behind "Ro" and "ar" in the title. That said... I just realized/remembered that the void-Dustbringer symbol is on all four corners of the Kharbranth artwork. This further reinforces that these symbols represent locations. This one in particular would most obviously represent Kharbranth itself (or, more accurately, the ancient city that once stood there). Another possibility is that it represents Thalath - the kingdom ancient Kharbranth was located in. The fact that the symbol is on a more modern map suggests... that it's more closely associated with the city itself, I think. If it represents Thalath, then void-Truthwatcher is most likely Rishir and the others are the rest of the Silver Kingdoms. If it's Kharbranth, then it implies some notable ancient city that sounds like Roshar or Rishir.
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Thanks @Landis963 So I'm convinced that the symbols circling the compass rose is "Roshar". The Rs are very clear and it encircles both the compass AND the Silver Kingdoms map. And "Urithiru at the center of Roshar" (arrows and all) is just so good. With that in mind... How incredibly odd is it that the "Truthwatcher voidbinding symbol" basically says Roshar? Especially given the position of that particular symbol... In the center and sharing the giant red gemstone along with the Bondsmith symbol. That's got to mean something...
