Kingsdaughter613

I forgot which forum I was on, since all my other alerts were for another one. I fixed it.

I want to see their reactions to certain revelation.

That was me. I think that has more to do with the decision about Thaidakar though.

This was my take on him. I suspect he’s in quite a lot of trouble now. Which is what usually happens to men like him eventually.

I expect the duel to occur at the end of Part one or two, and the rest is fallout. Shallan figures out the worldhopping when she finds/frees Ba-Ado-Mishram, which she’s clearly going to do. Hunting BAM takes most of the book and is her primary arc. If she confronts Thaidakar, which I do think she will, it happens all the way at the end of the book.

There are ways to get Spren off Roshar. Considering the plot of this book for Shallan, I wouldn’t be surprised if she figures it out.

That’s a very good point.

We actually don’t know that Nightblood is from Nalthis in SA. No one has said it. It’s the fact that Hoid brought him up TWICE. Plus the fact that a Herald thought he’d killed another Herald. Oh, and Shallan’s whole plot has somewhat revolves around his organization - as has her entire life. Yes, I’d expect her to meet the leader. I do want to learn more about the sand, and I expect it to be discussed in KoW. Yes, this about plot, pacing and expectation. If you have someone’s entire plot revolve around a mysterious organization led by an even more mysterious leader, you expect to meet the leader before the story’s end. Brandon is building expectations here, and Shallan and Adolin seem to be being set up for Cosmere exploration.

This. This is EXACTLY what I think is going to happen. Mraize completely messed up. I suspect this whole thing was a test for him - and he just failed. Badly.

Valor wouldn’t allow him to use his cunning properly though. Autonomy and Ambition suit him well.

Well, we now know a Scadrian is messing around with Roshar... Turnabout is fair play? But it actually doesn’t work, because the Set have been around since before W&W. Right now Palm is meeting, or has met, Wax. So it doesn’t quite match up.

First off: I accidentally discovered a WoB that indicated that SA was supposed to overlap MB era 3 originally. And he’s been vague on the timelines because he had to move W&W to the time gap and Era 3 even further due to things going on in the background. I think we now can guess at what those ‘background’ things are. And with those ‘background things’ hitting the forefront, this timeline needs to be fixed. If I was reading this as a stand-alone, I would not expect the first half to end with a major antagonist from a major character’s plot going unseen on page. I’d expect at least one appearance, probably near the end. Possibly because SHALLAN travels to Scadrial. As long as Thaidakar was almost entirely in the background, I expected him to be a mystery revealed near the end of the first half, to be expanded upon in the second. But with as often as he’s been brought up in this book - and by whom - it would feel really weird to me if we didn’t meet him. I think it’s a given that we’re going to meet his Avatar. When you write, plans change. When I write a story my characters broke off an alliance earlier than I’d expected. This changed my overall outline - and I was writing historical fiction! I literally couldn’t change the timeline! I think Thaidakar’s role changed as Brandon outlined SA 4&5 (which he did together). This has effects on Kell’s probable appearance in TLM. But it also means that he has to carefully line up the MB Era 3 foreshadowing to ensure that it matches with Thaidakar’s altered actions/role in SA.

I’d actually meant Social Darwinism (I was tired), but I love the gif!

Shallan is semi-canonically bi.

Yes, Kell is dead... and was Preservation (briefly) and is running the Ghostbloods and... There’s actually no good reason why he CAN’T pick up Autonomy. He’d be limited in power, but he could pick it up. I’m not so certain he’d WANT to though.

Because Preservation cut off part of Ruin and stuck it in the Atium cycle.

Kell doesn’t need Investiture to persist; as a Sliver, he’s naturally too highly Invested to go Beyond unless he wants to (or his CS is destroyed). Getting offworld though... he definitely wants to do that.

Yes, Wit does, but the way Brandon answered was vague enough that it could mean that - AND be a title for a particular Individual. Because of how he’s bound, Kell could officially be the leader but unofficially partly answerable to the people who act for him. Or the people giving his orders could be misinterpreting them and by the time he learns of it it’s too late. The Manywar appears to have taken place three centuries before WB. So exactly how much younger Kell is than Vasher is unclear. Thanks for fixing my mistake! Still, Vasher doesn’t seem to have been overwhelmed by his intent yet, and he IS older. Trying to find the EXACT timeline lead me to this WOB though: “Second question is that I've moved things so that The Way of Kings is around the same time as The Alloy of Law, forced by some behind-the-scenes events. Warbreaker now happens before The Alloy of Law.“ I think we now have an inkling as to those ‘behind the scenes events,’ lol! Apparently Mistborn Era 3 (then 2) was supposed to coincide with SA. This got changed. W&W was supposed to occur before SA. This also got changed. So when and where things took place seems to have gotten a bit scrambled...

I’ve noted the timeline before; Palm should be looking for/have found Wax at this point. They were together for about fifteen years before the W&W books started.

Zahel is several centuries older than Kell. I believe Warbreaker and MB take place around the same time. I completely agree that Kell does not have full control over the GBs and would be furious with Mraize. But he’s stuck on Scadrial; he has to work through others. Thaidakar is a leader may mean: 1) there have been others 2) there are multiple leaders 3) Thaidakar means 'a leader.’ 4) There are levels of leaders, with Thaidakar possibly being at the top. Kell would never willingly share leadership. Being stuck on Scadrial may mean he doesn’t have a choice. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see!

No, I think he intended to write TLM first BEFORE this reveal, but ran out of time. Now he has to write TLM, where Kell will almost certainly show up, with us knowing much more of what the Survivor’s up to than we did. Before this Brandon could be a lot more fluid with that appearance, because he could be more fluid on whether to drop the Thaidakar reveal in book 4 or 5. By putting it here, he has to be careful that nothing said, done or shown contradicts SA events involving that character. Which means the timeline of BOTH series needs to be very clear. Also, he may have made the decision to put the reveal here because he’s changed the role Thaidakar and the GBs are going to play in book 5. The way this book ends indicates that something will go down with them in the next book. Wit certainly thought it was important enough to warn Jasnah about. Per WoB, Kell is not supposed to appear in SA. After this book, if I was a SA only reader, I’d be shocked if Thaidakar didn’t show up in the final book. Pretend you don’t know who Thaidakar is. You’ve never read Mistborn. Of COURSE you expect this mysterious man to show up. Especially after this book had WIT, of all people, feeling the need to bring him up as a threat. This is a mystery you expect to be solved, and not by being told “hey, here are seven books plus two novellas to read.” I think originally Thaidakar’s identity reveal was planned for book 5. By moving it, it makes a promise to the readers. And that promise means both series timelines need to be lined up. You summarized my little essay here better than I could have. Thanks! Have a virtual upvote! Sadly, I’m out of real ones.

As I noted previously: Brandon has to nail down exactly when W&W takes place so as to avoid SA timeline conflicts. That’s the most likely source of the aforementioned issue.

I REALLY hope they read SA before Mistborn...

So, I gave a very long explanation for why I’m pretty sure this isn’t a trick in another thread. I’m not repeating it here. Regarding Kell’s mental state: I think he’s too young a Shadow to be experiencing most of the side effects. And I think, under most circumstances, he wouldn’t be aware of the subtle changes yet. HOWEVER. He has TWO different mythologies on opposing sides of Scadrial. I’ve theorized before that elements of her personality become stronger and weaker (Rioted and Soothed?) depending on which side of Scadrial he’s on. These changes are much more obvious to him, and there may be some disorientation when he goes from one side of Scadrial to the other. He knows he’s running out of time to find a way to stop this, or it will destroy him. So he’s desperate. And his Intent is Survive, which just makes it worse... Not sure why you don’t think the GBs feel like Kell’s team, though. They always did; that’s why I theorized he was leading them. Never expected to be RIGHT though...

To Teft. And to Phendorana. We shall miss you two.