Kingsdaughter613

Based off Kal and Syl, it’s immediate.

The Lightweavers as an Order are good spies. As individuals... not so much. They need a lot more training in that art. Compared to the real spies they could use a lot more work. That conversation just feels off though, especially with how Mraize seemed to assume Shallan knew Thaidakar was his boss back in part one. And I doubt it’s an accident. It’s not obvious (especially considering the major revelation in that conversation) but when you put the two conversations side-by-side it becomes clear that something doesn’t quite add up.

Vivenna notes the girl’s Breath ‘flickered’, like it was slightly damaged. It really does fit well with what we see here. Sneaky Brandon! Foreshadowing in a (technically) different series.

It’s a minor scene and quickly forgotten. But I think it may have been foreshadowing this one, especially considering Warbreaker’s ‘prologue to SA’ status. Which does not bode well for Wit.

It IS in Warbreaker. We see something similar happen in a scene there. This could indicate that Breath naturally acts as repository for storing Connection to one’s past experiences, since I doubt that little girl was doing anything intentionally.

There is actually. Vasher gets a girl to wipe part of her memory by altering her Breath. It’s the scene where he rescued the Priest’s daughter.

Endowment was in on the plot. Why do you think Nightblood was there for T to use?

Ooh! Good point.

Ah, but if the surprise is that it happens early in the book, then wouldn’t it be just like Brandon to shock us by making the book occur over ten days? Or better: the duel is delayed by mutual agreement, and takes place at the end... with lots of time in the middle. Because the beginning? That’s practically expected!

Interesting. BTW, we actually saw that Sleepless briefly in WoR. Well, heard. He’s the one who brings Shallan’s pictures to Master Thaidakar. The way his voice is described is very similar to how other Sleepless voices have been described.

Something is off with their interactions.

Should be noted that Mythic tricksters tend to escape in the end, for good or for ill. So I could see Kell getting trapped between realms at the end of Era 3, and a subplot of Era 4 involves releasing him.

Yeah, I think he may have misread. Actually, he doesn’t. It’s implied and Shallan assumes. But we never actually see her being attacked, and he never says it, and we don’t know who killed the coachman. Her not needing to worry could mean they informed the other GBs. Rereading it... I find I’m not as certain as I was the first time. We’re SUPPOSED to think it’s them, but we don’t KNOW. And Shallan was beginning to split at that point, so was really not a reliable narrator. I would not be surprised either way, honestly. Honestly, at this point she could have done it herself and I wouldn’t be shocked, lol! Mraize says the GBs killed Jasnah, but he never mentions the ship. Jasnah is the one who says the GBs attacked the ship (which I think they did) but that isn’t something they themselves ever said. Edit: I found the note to Tyn and it’s... interesting. For your part, there is no news of the target surviving. It seems that your worry about the mission’s failure is unfounded. Whatever happened aboard the ship, it worked to our favor. The Wind’s Pleasure is reported lost with all hands. Jasnah Kholin is dead. Jasnah Kholin is dead. Shallan gaped, jaw dropping. That . . . it isn’t . . . “Maybe those idiots did manage to complete the job,” Tyn said, satisfied. “It looks like I’ll be paid after all.” “Your mission in Amydlatn,” Shallan whispered. “It was to assassinate Jasnah Kholin.” “Run the operation, at least,” Tyn said, distracted. “Would have gone myself, but can’t stand ships. Those churning seas turn my stomach inside out. . . .” Or: the person who was supposed to be doing the mission wasn’t doing it. She sent someone else... who may or may not have been behind the attack. So the GBs definitely ordered the hit on Jasnah, but Tyn ordered someone else to arrange it, and the actual person who attacked the ship is unknown. The GBs do not seem to have ordered the specific attack though. Which implies quite the communications breakdown, if nothing else.

Yeah, Mraize mentions that he and Iyatil decided to recruit Shallan despite being told not to. Well, specifically they were recruiting VEIL, as they had not been ordered NOT to recruit Veil. Which is some very nice exact words loophole. Edit: or so my husband told me during his reread of the series. But I can’t find it. I’ll see if I can scrounge up the quote. I read it as GBs being loyal to one another, United in a common purpose. Kell has always been good at instilling loyalty. Edit: Mraize says GBs are protective of one another. Edit: did not find that, but I found the carriage driver scene. And a Sleepless! Mraize is talking to someone with a raspy voice. BUT. Shallan does not see who killed the coachman. She assumes it’s the GBs, but there doesn’t seem to be any actual evidence of it. She also seems to assume he gave permission for people to assassinate her - again without evidence. Also: Jasnah is the one who tells Shallan the GBs attacked the ship, but we don’t know how Jasnah knows that. So... there’s certainly some confusion here.

To be fair, GBs are not allowed to harm one another. Also worth noting that Iyatil and Mraize were disobeying by trying to recruit Shallan at all. The Rosharan group has canonically disobeyed once, which makes me question just how independent they are as a group.

Okay, so either this changed or I posted this in the wrong thread. It was supposed to be in a thread about future SA characters. So this isn’t where it should be. I’ll delete the post because it’s in the wrong place. (Mutters about wonky internet...)

Yay! I didn’t know they’d lifted the Dawnshard taboo yet. That’s much faster than I expected; SH had a much longer hold.

Are we allowed to discuss Dawnshards here?

An unusually good memory. But it’s still a weird comment. If I tell you about someone, I’m more likely to recall it than you are. Mraize told Shallan about Thaidakar; it’s very odd that he doesn’t seem to remember doing so.

Cold War, most likely.

I love this analysis. Hoid and Kell are the Cosmere tricksters, which probably plays a role in why they hate each other so much. But they’re different kinds. Kelsier is the mythic trickster. He’s Coyote and Loki and Prometheus. SH reads a lot like a Trickster myth to me, and Kell has a lot of the connections common to mythic tricksters: life and death, defiance of the gods, (symbolic) fire, etc. The association with Mists could be argued as the water connection. And as the Sovereign he brought knowledge of the metallic arts (civilization) to the South Scadrians. (Tricksters are often connected to life, death, Fire, water, defiance of authority/gods, and civilization.) We don’t know Hoid’s connections, but I’d argue that Hoid isn’t the mythic trickster. He’s the folk hero. He’s any of a dozen trickster folk heroes. He’s also Puck, who bears more in common with those than the mythic ones. Kell is the one with the big splashes that soon turned into legends and myths. Hoid is the subtler one, taunting and teasing from the sidelines, causing his enemies to fool themselves. He inspires the stories which, in time, become myths of their own. Kell will slight the gods to their faces. Hoid will have them utterly confused as to whether or not they’ve been insulted. Kell will make fools of the gods; Hoid will have them make fools of themselves. Oh, and going by myth, Kell will likely end up imprisoned in a great deal of pain. Or dead. Most mythic tricksters do end up that way. Unless the Well counts, in which case he’s already dealt with that. But I don’t think so. Hoid will probably be fine, as long as he plays his cards right. Folk tricksters often get into trouble, but they usually get out of it - or suffer less than the mythic one. Possibly because their trickery isn’t quite as ‘spectacular.’

Except this was in the same book. That’s why it stuck out to me. If you’re reading straight through it stands out. It’s not like something that was mentioned in OB; it happened during a plot relevant conversation that the characters had not that long ago. It’s not that hard to remember - and plenty of readers will go back to double check the original conversation anyway. So it just seems very odd.

Kalak is not sane. He may very well have given those orders (which I could easily see him doing) and performed actions leading to the return of the Desolations one day, and the next done something entirely different. It would depend on who he was influenced by that particular hour.

You read Dragonsteel?! I am SOOOO jealous!

Or another GB is using the Seon.