Kingsdaughter613

Exactly this. Kelsier is an effective leader because he’s good at getting people to follow him and creating policy. It’s administration that he falls down on. The reason I don’t think he’d be thrilled with some of what the Rosharan GBs are doing is on a more basic level. The way Mraize tried to recruit Shallan was the opposite of how Kell recruited Vin. And it, predictably, did not end well. So I doubt he’d be pleased by that -not because he cares about Shallan, but because it was stupid and gained him a potentially dangerous enemy. I also doubt he’d be happy at Mraize for capturing Lift. But I also doubt Mraize will get more than a disappointed look and a ‘don’t do that again’. Kelsier may not hurt kids personally, and doesn’t approve of others doing so, but seeing as Lift wasn’t any the worse for wear he’s not going to get that mad about it. In the moment would be another story. This IS the man who massacred an entire family - except the cousin’s pregnant wife - for the murder of a child.

This character is a minor character.

I had to train myself to use the in-world pronunciation. I always think it’s cool when other people use it. And I think it works better in the song too, as it allows the final syllable to be lengthened more naturally.

I guess my version is older, lol! Which is weird, because it’s digital...

Great job! I love it! Were you actually pronouncing his name as Kel-see-ay? Because it’s awesome if you were!

Sure!

Kids, hold on! Anyone know how to drive a fire truck? WTWTTSW you are rocketing down the Belt Parkway in a fire truck?

We don’t know how often he’s in contact with Mraize, actually. We’ve never seen them talk. To be duped Kelsier has to actually make rules that are being defied. Since he hasn’t bothered, he isn’t being duped. He told people to do X, X is being done, and he’s just not particularly concerned with anything in between. Not out of any malice, but because he doesn’t realize that he should care. Yes, he is a terrible boss. That doesn’t make him ineffective. Just a terrible administrator who shouldn’t be allowed to run a company. And I finally found this (I had to go through a LOT of WoBs to find it): Questioner If Kelsier hadn’t died and became Emperor instead of Elend, how would he have ruled? Brandon Sanderson Poorly. He would have gotten bored pretty fast. I’m pretty sure this is still pretty accurate. As an interesting aside, Brandon went from saying Kell was black/red to blue/black, possibly with some red. I don’t know enough about MTG to say what that means though. He also went from saying Kell was unlikely to show up on Roshar to RAFOing it. Specifically, he RAFOd it in 2019, when he was already working on RoW. Which makes me wonder if certain plans haven’t shifted slightly...

I think T’s worse, as noted. You didn’t tell me your psychological perspective. I’m genuinely curious. I’m getting behaviorist vibes from you, but I’m probably completely wrong.

This character underwent a case of mistaken identity due to an error.

It didn’t hold! What did I do with the warranty?! WTWTTSWY attempted mind control of the FMP squad fails?

I hope this mind control holds. I hope this mind control holds... WTWTTSWY have the Federal Mental Protection (FMP) squad bashing in your front door?

Good man choosing to do evil is Brandon’s description, so you clearly know better than the author. And I think you and I have very different understandings about what is necessary to fit into those categories (of which five are necessary for diagnosis.) I can only presume our teachers came from different psychological schools. Personally, I’m a Jungian. You?

I think we ninjad. Although we can assume yours follows immediately after mine (as that makes more sense narratively.) Oh, man! How am I supposed to get presents with all these cops chasing me? And we don’t even celebrate Christmas! WTWTTSW you realize you need to get presents now, but the cops are looking for you and there are massive non-Corona complying crowds looking at the Windows?

“Hey, is this a bomb?” WTWTTSWY find a suspicious looking item on the roof the cops just realized you’re on?

On YouTube live: “Hey, it’s me idiots! I’m alive! And filming from the roof of your precinct!” WTWTTSWY Have a bunch of cops storming the roof of the building they THINK you’re on?

Narcissism requires certain behaviors, and those behaviors cannot be caused by outside sources, which eliminates any behaviors caused by his bane/boon. More to the point: “NPD is characterized by the presence of both grandiosity and attention seeking.” Taravangian does NOT engage in these behaviors, which means he’s not a narcissist. And a narcissist would NEVER allow other people to decide if he was capable of ruling his nation or not. A narcissist could never honestly say that he hopes to be proven wrong. A grandiose sense of self-importance - this he has A preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love - no, he doesn’t have these. A belief that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions - only when he is ‘smart’, which is caused by an external force and cannot apply A need for excessive admiration - no; he doesn’t care if he’s hated as long as he’s saved as many as he can A sense of entitlement - no. He fully expects to be punished and recognizes that he should be. Interpersonally exploitive behavior - arguable A lack of empathy - again, only when ‘smart’ which is caused by Cultivation so irrelevant. Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her - no, he’s not. A demonstration of arrogant and haughty behaviors or attitudes - Yes. Add to this that he doesn’t seek attention, nor does he act in a grandiose manner, and he’s not a Narcissist. He’s just an ordinary man who is doing evil. And that’s far more terrifying. Here is the second scale: Identity - T is very clear on his identity. This does not apply Self-direction - He is very directed, even at his dullest. This does not apply Empathy - Cultivation was manipulating this and thus it cannot be accurately measured. Intimacy - T does not appear to have had difficulties growing and maintaining intimate relationships. This does not apply. I don’t get why people always feel the need to apply labels. Taravangian is a good man who has chosen to do evil. That’s the most terrifying thing he could possibly be. Why lessen that?

This is just like Grand Theft Auto!!! WTWTTSWY Drive the wrong way across the Brooklyn Bridge during rush hour?

I agree with this. Or it could be random genetic luck, which I actually think would be the most interesting.

I just opened the fire hydrant. WTWTTSW You cause a bunch of cops to electrocute themselves and you?

No, he’s Fullborn now. And... busy. With spoilers that can’t be discussed here, so let’s not bring him up. Although Spook might still be around too.

T is not a narcissist! Kelsier probably is, if you want a character to compare him to. I went through the whole NPD analysis on a different board. Taravangian has a Messianic Complex; ie. Delusions of Grandeur (though I would not say he is delusional, just wrong). It should be noted that there is some slight resemblance to his smart/emotional days and some expressions of Bipolar disorder. Bipolar can manifest with Grandiose Delusions, so it’s an interesting connection. Taravangian does not have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Please stop misdiagnosing him. A cursory look through the diagnostic criteria makes it very clear that he does not have this disorder.

I believe we’ve been told that Harmony does not approve of Kelsier’s current actions.

Unfortunately, we know that Harmony does not approve of Kelsier’s current actions. Some one can be a terrible administrator and an effective leader at the same time. Kelsier is an effective leader but a terrible administrator. You’re conflating the two. A good leader can convince people to the follow them to the ends of the earth. Kelsier does this one by accident, when he isn’t doing it on purpose. They’re the figurehead, the symbol, the one everyone rallies around. A good ADMINISTRATOR is something else entirely. A good administrator can parse out who should and shouldn’t be trusted. They give clear directions that can’t be misinterpreted. They set clear rules and boundaries. Kelsier doesn’t do any of this. Dockson did, and that’s why they were such an incredible team. I seriously do not know how Kelsier managed to rule the South. He’s a terrible manager - I don’t think he properly understands what management IS. He’s the idea guy. He comes up with all the big, fancy plots and everyone else makes them work. And this is obvious going back to the Final Empire. In a RW company, Kell would be the owner. But the actual day to day business would be conducted by his exasperated CEO, CFO, and a whole board of directors, while Kell goes off on his jet to do... whatever random thing struck his fancy today. With occasional calls to his board to say ‘hey, we should totally invest in this new thing. And by that I mean I already bought stock.’ Or: ‘I just bought this product/factory/trademark and we’re producing it now.’ Or: ‘I met this AWESOME guy and I hired him, so find him a job, kay?’ Or: ‘Guys, lets make a movie. I already scouted a location, hired a writer, and arranged for a camera crew. How do you run auditions?’ Or: Yes, the Ghostbloods can easily do things Kelsier wouldn’t approve of because A: he doesn’t think he needs to tell them not to do those things and B: because Kelsier doesn’t understand the concept of oversight. He’s a great boss on a personal level, because as long as the job gets done he doesn’t care what you do. But he’s a really, really, REALLY bad person to put in charge of the day to day. TLDR; Kelsier can lead, but he can’t administrate, which means he actually has no idea what the Ghostbloods are doing on a daily basis. He just assumes they’re doing what he wants. Fortunately for him, they’re loyal enough that by and large they ARE.

The only Bridge 4 character who got named in an interlude title was Teft. And I was kind of assuming we weren’t using RoW spoilers? Dunny gets a chapter title though, so it might be him.